Can Spirits Help You Win at Gambling? A Las Vegas Field Test (Blog)

[supertom]

point of maths is just finding out about space-time, apart from that its useless

[ashers1812]

Originally Posted by supertom

interesting about the energy drain, i have been feeling it lately too. Would love a blog on energy work

Seconded!!!

[ashers1812]

Originally Posted by Spartan

You have chosen a reality in which people are incapable of being proved wrong. My reality is different. Your limiting belief about skeptics is merely a subjective lens through which you choose to view the world.

Ultimately however playing the Skeptics game is a self defeating one. By definition Skeptics pose doubt to hypotheses for examination.

So if this is the definition then most if not all Skeptics here aren't 'True' Skeptics since it would require them to evaluate Skepticism itself.

And thus their dearly held (narcissistic) reality begins to unravel, and we can't be having that...can we?

[foxbivvy]

Originally Posted by Niki

And what about you, maybe you should "Question your assumptions'. You say yourself there s no proof, yet you assume "A world created by consciousness". Where is the proof for that. I mean ok, I'm not proving to you that science got this, but you are not proving to me that "consciousness" got it neither.

If people really could talk to dead people, and control blackjack games, OK then in the name of science, prove it in a scientific way, and reproduce it, while authorities are watching. I bet you that 50% of the times you try this over a long period of time, the "spirit's" don't feel like helping you out... Just saying

I only ever said, "A world created by consciousness is a different story than one created by particles running under rules." This means I believe, out the two, it is more likely. As it explains things that have happened personally to me, beyond chance.

The reason this cannot be proved, is that it breaks a rule - for individuals to have their personal beliefs violated. So it simply would not happen in front of those that do not believe it possibly could. The only way to prove this is for people to personally try this, away from doubters who would have their beliefs violated. If you want to trust scientists' official views on this, that is ok, do it, that is your choice, have fun with it.

Do you trust government advise on what to eat? Or do you try the "crazy" raw food diet that Steve says works for him. To see if it works for you. Do you take a teacher's strong advise that a certain type of job is the best job for everybody. And so spend years studying hard for it. That's ok, it's your choice, you live with it.

If you are interested in finding out the truth for yourself, start to find reasons why it could be true, and focus on them. This will start to shift your belief system. Start by questioning how much science really knows, start by understanding psychology, how scientists are just people, and can be biased towards the views of their group that they identify with. Focus more on reasons why they could have got the big picture wrong and how perhaps Steve is not making this up, or a little crazy for some reason. Then, after some time, the nice events will start to happen to you personally.

[JeromeX]

Do you guys consider Seth Books and ACIM as the evidence of non-physical reality? The insight presented in these materials can't be made up by human being in current conscious evolution stage, IMO.

Thank Steve for your courage to share your experiences with us. This is where quantum leap occurs in personal development.

[Niki]

Originally Posted by foxbivvy

If you are interested in finding out the truth for yourself, start to find reasons why it could be true, and focus on them. This will start to shift your belief system. Start by questioning how much science really knows, start by understanding psychology, how scientists are just people, and can be biased towards the views of their group that they identify with. Focus more on reasons why they could have got the big picture wrong and how perhaps Steve is not making this up, or a little crazy for some reason. Then, after some time, the nice events will start to happen to you personally.

Well I actually did for a long time. I was saying the same things you are saying to me now. But problem is, that if you only find reasons why something is true, your opinion is biased from the beginning on.

I don't "understand' psychology, but I do have an insight in the limitations of psychology. does that mean I must believe all those spiritual teachings and such? That's not a reason at all. I understand scientist are just people, just like you, me, Steve and everybody else. Is that prove that people can communicate with spirits? Not at all. I believe Steve is not making this up, but I do believe that Steve his current belief system is the reason he believes this. But that's my opinion.

And about the nice events. There are already nice events happening in my life. I live in peace and am pretty happy with what I do. Not something I could say about myself when I was "practicing" the art of talking to ghosts, and feeling the presence of god.

If you give me advice, I think I am allowed to give you advice too.

Try to find out what science already know, and try to find out what science knows they don't know. Try to find out what they know about meditation and happiness. You will be pleasantly surprised.


Peace

[foxbivvy]

Originally Posted by Niki

Try to find out what science already know, and try to find out what science knows they don't know. Try to find out what they know about meditation and happiness.


Peace

Science is not useless! Destructive Emotions by Goleman was one of the most revealing book I've read on Meditation and science. Science is just no good in terms of explaining how we got here.

The idea that consciousness is the first creator is shunned by mainstream science. Partly because they like to think they can explain all now, and this turns it all on its head. It allows in all kinds of spiritual events. But that's ok

[Niki]

Originally Posted by foxbivvy

The idea that consciousness is the first creator is shunned by mainstream science. Partly because they like to think they can explain all now, and this turns it all on its head. It allows in all kinds of spiritual events. But that's ok

Well firstly science doesn't "shun" the idea that consciousness is the first creator, they just know there is no proof for it. and second, ask any serious scientist if science can explain everything, and they will tell you that science can't explain everything at the moment, and that science probably will not do that in the future too. Is that prove for ghosts, spirits and holy stuff? Not at all

It's not because science can't explain something that what they can't explain is suddenly spiritual or of higher purpose. It just means there is no proof.

[foxbivvy]

Originally Posted by Niki

It just means there is no proof.

Yes, no proof either way. Consciousness as the first creator though is much more likely. As for a start it solves the "hard problem" as coined by philosopher Chalmers.

The universe is more likely composed of possible states of conscious experience. If it is possible to experience ghosts - you will experience it. But it is not possible if you do not believe it. And so the proof you find is of a personal nature. I know it exists because I allowed it You could, if you wanted to, but you don't, and that's ok, it's your choice. There are many people in this world that know that spiritual entities exist. A few scientists do. Are you really telling me that if a scientist comes out that he spoke to a ghost, but cannot repeat it for doubting observers, that he will not be shunned by mainstream science. Get real :P

[Bruce Achterberg]

What's really cool is how consistent the other side seems to be with the "other world" displayed in the anime series, Dragonball Z. Interestingly, I'm kind less worried about dying now, since at least there will be cool things to explore, but I get the feeling I shouldn't get too excited about it either while I'm still enjoying the physical.

I'm pretty surprised to learn how un-perfect the other side is, too. I always thought it'd be all "higher self" oriented and you'd have insta-knowledge and be all 1337, but apparently not... or at least, not immediately (I still haven't read Erin's post that details about the other side in detail... I figure it spoils the surprise. Info about mechanics are fair game, though; I'll need to know how to play!).

Interestingly, all of this information seems like it resonates with me on a deep level as if there's some fundamental truth to it, almost as if I spiritually "remember" it in some part of my being. Eckhart Tolle says he experienced this sensation when reading certain religious texts and could tell what was original, and what was edited or changed. The energy was just different, as if it came from something deeper. I wonder if the depth is able to recognise itself in us, and from us witnessing it, it becomes aware of itself(?).

Originally Posted by From Steve's article

Please also be aware that I’m committed to sharing my growth experiences as they occur, so if you ask me to stop writing on such topics simply because these ideas conflict with your current understanding of reality, I have to decline because otherwise I’d be holding back way too much. As I see it, if you and I agree on absolutely everything, we can’t help each other grow. It’s only by exploring our differences that we can learn from each other.

I don't fall into the skeptic category at all (I make rooms full of skeptics upset and worried about me very easily ), but yeah, that's just the basic concept of contrast at work. Just today I wrote a bit about it in my journal, and more recently, whole exploring some of Zan Perrion's material (thanks again for that validation, Steve). It seems I grow more when exposed to contrast, even if the contrast isn't directly useful. It seems to have a clarifying effect, and instead of being all stuck, I feel a greater attraction towards certain things again and life starts to flow again.

Oh and I must say, your experiments at the casino answer a question I had months ago about whether you could cheat spiritually in games. I remember when Erin wrote about going to the casino and winning with assistance, and that just seemed super-not-right to me, but I'm glad to see there's some general fairness to the system. So thanks, Ron, Steve, and universe--answer appreciated.

Thanks for the post, Steve. Super-interesting.

Sign me up for the free-will post, too. Oh, and gg Ron--good to see you're progressing. May I recommend Playing to Win to you? (I'm only half kidding.)

[Niki]

Originally Posted by foxbivvy

Yes, no proof either way. Consciousness as the first creator though is much more likely. As for a start it solves the "hard problem" as coined by philosopher Chalmers.

The universe is more likely composed of possible states of conscious experience. If it is possible to experience ghosts - you will experience it. But it is not possible if you do not believe it. And so the proof you find is of a personal nature. I know it exists because I allowed it You could, if you wanted to, but you don't, and that's ok, it's your choice. There are many people in this world that know that spiritual entities exist. A few scientists do. Are you really telling me that if a scientist comes out that he spoke to a ghost, but cannot repeat it for doubting observers, that he will not be shunned by mainstream science. Get real :P

I don't know why Consciousness as the first creator is more likely because there is no proof. That's just a thinking flaw. That's just assuming something for the sake of assuming something

Saying the universe is made of states of consciousness and then thinking you understand the universe is just as flawed as saying the universe is made of tiny pizza's that we cannot see. It's an assumption of something you really don't know. At least science is smart enough to say they don't know.

And if a scientist comes out saying he talked to a ghost, but cannot reproduce it in front of watchers, than that is no proof indeed. That's what science is (mostly) all about, reproducing results.

Your assumptions are led by philosophers and teachings, but when will you empty your head and think for your self?

[foxbivvy]

Originally Posted by Niki

Your assumptions are led by philosophers and teachings, but when will you empty your head and think for your self?

Mentioning a philosopher does not mean I cannot think for myself! I give up!!!

[say]

Didn't read all the posts, so sorry if it's been asked:

How did the communication look like? I mean in what way exactly did you hear the voice and see whatever it is you saw (a karma meter...)?
Was it just like if you yourself created a "mind monologue" or if you remembered some voice from the past?


I had some telepathic experiences (with alive people), but generally they were just some subtle positive feelings.

[foxbivvy]

Originally Posted by Niki

I don't know why Consciousness as the first creator is more likely because there is no proof. That's just a thinking flaw. That's just assuming something for the sake of assuming something

Saying the universe is made of states of consciousness and then thinking you understand the universe is just as flawed as saying the universe is made of tiny pizza's that we cannot see. It's an assumption of something you really don't know. At least science is smart enough to say they don't know.

And if a scientist comes out saying he talked to a ghost, but cannot reproduce it in front of watchers, than that is no proof indeed. That's what science is (mostly) all about, reproducing results.

Your assumptions are led by philosophers and teachings, but when will you empty your head and think for your self?

I said it is more likely that consciousness is the first creator bc it solves the hard problem. This is my own idea. I never said I understand it all. Far from it :P

[foxbivvy]

Your pizza theory was kind of cute though, I liked that one

[foxbivvy]

A final note. If Steve plays Blackjack and does well at it, but not when scientists are there - that is not proof of Steve being wrong. You can only try this yourself. You cannot prove it to the world, that breaks some kind of law. We can only guess what the laws are and why. It seems to be belief violation, this explains it quite elegantly.

But you're entitled to your beliefs, I'm not going to change them. This then becomes more about ego! So I will end it here. I've learned things from it, which I think is why it happened. I hope you did too :d

[Still Growing]

Had Steve put the water bottle on the table and kept loosing we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The human mind looks for connections and is programmed to see patterns of cause and affect.

If the dead could help us win then the dead could also help the casino win. Life would then be all about the dead and not about the here and the now.

Definitely this post is a step back in my opinion but sometimes we have to explore the unknown and try to wrap our heads around it. We're just joining Steve along with his self discovery and thats what's interesting.

[babssoft]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I noticed that earlier and thought it was strange too. I didn't consciously plan that.

I know-- you couldn't have because it was posted before Ron passed away.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by babssoft

I know-- you couldn't have because it was posted before Ron passed away.

In my household that's not a valid excuse.

[MelissaThinks]

After reading this second article I've been worried about Steve as well. Even if this is truly Ron who you are tapping into you will need to be very careful. Those on the other side who join themselves to people who are still here can be a drain. I've done this kind of work in my past and I stopped it because of the dangers.

Steve, it has been weighing on my heart since I read your post so I'll just leave you with this piece of advice. When you open the screen door to let in your friends sometimes you let the flies in too ;-)

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by MelissaThinks

Steve, it has been weighing on my heart since I read your post so I'll just leave you with this piece of advice. When you open the screen door to let in your friends sometimes you let the flies in too ;-)

You make it sound like flies are a bad thing.

Personally, I catch flies and free them outside.

People give them a lot of flack, but they seem pretty friendly to me (just like ants, cockroaches, and many other creepy-crawlies many people are quick to see as "non-things" and delete them from existence as if they're problematic). Even spiders are pretty cool--they've managed to refrain from biting me, despite my crazy exploits!

[kdcaboy]

Hi Steve, All,

Like others that have posted on this thread, I have enjoyed reading your blog but this is the first time I've made it to the forums and decided to participate!

This was such an interesting article for me to read, as I have experienced similar things but it has always been somewhat fuzzy, messages always showing up as flashes of past shared experiences, cliches that pop into my head, or similar things. On rare occasions with people I feel a very strong connection with however, it's loud and clear and often scares me!

When you said "A skeptic cannot be shown proof of what they doubt" I sat straight up in my seat.

Over the last several years I have known many people who clearly have had similar experiences, but they aggressively change the topic and sometimes even refuse to acknowledge that I've said anything when I bring topics like this up. It's frustrated me to no end ... My inner voice tells me that it's often improper to talk about these things, sometimes because of their nature (talking is physical, it is impossible to fully express these topics with words and speech) and also because there is no physical evidence what good will talking do -- eventually you have to stop looking for reassurance from other people and believe on your own. Seems such a similar point I couldn't help but respond here.

However, in my own experience I have found that nothing in this spiritual and metaphysical world ever truly becomes "real" for me until I *do* share it out loud with somebody else. But in my life it has been so frustrating to share these things! LIke I said, almost everyone around me denies that it exists. Perhaps I will spend some time on this board and find an opportunity to change that? But as I type this, my inner voice is asking me why I need to prove myself or my beliefs to anybody?

While I am not skeptical of many things, I do have a considerable amount of self doubt in my "gut" and in my senses. For eight years I abused drugs (speed and psychedelics) and alcohol, and my world and reality was in some ways opened up dramatically and in other ways terribly distorted. I know that what I experience today is real, but I was so wrong about so many things for so long that I rarely trust myself. I become overwhelmed easily and end up an anxious, dysfunctional wreck! Not particularly helped by the lack of outlets to discuss. Every day I struggle, thinking that if I was so wrong then, how do I know I'm right today?

There is so much more I'd love to write here :-) Anyway, thanks for the great post and how it encouraged me to check out your forums!

- James

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by kdcaboy

I become overwhelmed easily and end up an anxious, dysfunctional wreck! Not particularly helped by the lack of outlets to discuss. Every day I struggle, thinking that if I was so wrong then, how do I know I'm right today?

There is so much more I'd love to write here :-) Anyway, thanks for the great post and how it encouraged me to check out your forums!

- James

These forums are a great outlet when you're feeling that way, or just need a fresh perspective on something. Great to meet you James, welcome aboard!

[kdcaboy]

Originally Posted by GreenTea

Woa. Still laughing about the wack factor of this article. Steve, your warnings about the craziness were also in themselves hilarious to me.

I have a question about the karma stuff, which is: What's the deal with the karma stuff??

"Then he showed me what looked like an energy meter that revealed a full positive karma supply. He suggested that I’d earned a lot of positive karma because of the work I’ve done with my blog. He seemed to be half-joking as he said this, as if he found my original question amusing."

You do mention "he seemed to be half joking", but for me this is the craziest sounding part of the whole article. Any clarifying thoughts? Do you believe in karma in this sense? (Recently I've been thinking that karma is past conditioning..??)

And thanks for your courage in posting this

My intuitive self has always had a problem with the formal idea of Karma... It's a popular idea, but it seems to me like a complicated system for something much simpler. From my perspective, "karma" is completely internal to us and comes from our own inner conflict. Any time we do something that we are conflicted about, or don't truly believe is the "right" thing to do (perhaps not consciously and that's the problem?), that's negative energy and it's going to affect us until we understand it better and release that conflict.

Can you imagine what it would be like to live without conflict, to truly trust and believe in yourself and that what you're doing is the right thing? Would you escape karma, would it no longer apply? :-)

This seems much simpler to me than complicated systems of good and bad karma, the cycle of life and death, and so on. Of course it also seems easier said than done to simply believe in oneself...

[kdcaboy]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

Had Steve put the water bottle on the table and kept loosing we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The human mind looks for connections and is programmed to see patterns of cause and affect.

If the dead could help us win then the dead could also help the casino win. Life would then be all about the dead and not about the here and the now.

Definitely this post is a step back in my opinion but sometimes we have to explore the unknown and try to wrap our heads around it. We're just joining Steve along with his self discovery and thats what's interesting.

You have a good point, the human mind is always looking for patterns and connections. Not just that, but we tend to look for explanations that are outside of us! Here again my intuitive self has problems with external spirits with complicated systems of rules and things... It's always seemed too complicated to me! Did Steve really need to place the water bottle on the table or instead did he just need that reassurance, that external device to believe in?

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by kdcaboy

You have a good point, the human mind is always looking for patterns and connections. Not just that, but we tend to look for explanations that are outside of us! Here again my intuitive self has problems with external spirits with complicated systems of rules and things... It's always seemed too complicated to me! Did Steve really need to place the water bottle on the table or instead did he just need that reassurance, that external device to believe in?

My preferred perspective is that there are no external devices. Everything that seems external is a projection of something internal. The physical world is simply another way of looking at the non-physical world.

[Sentient]

Your last post Steve totally flew over my head. You've made this same point before and I always thought I got what you meant. However, if I were to look at the post you were quoting I have no idea how your answer actually indicates you feel.

I guess there is a gap in my understanding.

[kdcaboy]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

My preferred perspective is that there are no external devices. Everything that seems external is a projection of something internal. The physical world is simply another way of looking at the non-physical world.

Aha, I like that angle :-)

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Sentient

Your last post Steve totally flew over my head. You've made this same point before and I always thought I got what you meant. However, if I were to look at the post you were quoting I have no idea how your answer actually indicates you feel.

I guess there is a gap in my understanding.

Your physical senses tell you that you live in a solid world of matter and objects, but of course we know that's just an illusion. You are energy sensing energy. However, you can only consciously perceive an infinitesmal subset of the energy flow you're being bathed in right now.

You can define the cells of your body as internal energy and the environment "outside" your cells as external energy, but that's a fairly inaccurate perspective because the signals intermix so much. So it can be more empowering to consider the perspective that all signals are internal to your consciousness. Whatever you perceive is a part of you.

A book that will help broaden your understanding in this area is The Biology of Belief by Dr. Bruce Lipton.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

My preferred perspective is that there are no external devices. Everything that seems external is a projection of something internal. The physical world is simply another way of looking at the non-physical world.

How would you interpret a corporation that has a lot of assets but doesn't utilize them?

Is that a reflection of unused potential? Greed?