Coaching and Consultations (Blog)

[Thomas]

A targetted approach might be a good way for leverage as well:

Personal Development for Smart {Parents|Kids|Students|...} (cf. to Chicken Soup for the XYZ's Soul).

[Ron Stoppable]

Originally Posted by Thomas

A targetted approach might be a good way for leverage as well:

Personal Development for Smart {Parents|Kids|Students|...} (cf. to Chicken Soup for the XYZ's Soul).

Isn't the point of leverage to expand your effect?

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Ron Stoppable

Isn't the point of leverage to expand your effect?

Indeed. And as I see it, some people (or for that matter groups of people) will respond better to a less generalized, targetted approach.

The fundamental principles are the same, but examples, stories and ways to explain things can be different, so that the target group will more easily connect with the contents.

One (exemplary) way to implement this could be having trained coaches that have special knowledge and experience in doing seminars for (say) blind people, much like there are First Aid courses for blind people.

[dalante]

I had mixed feelings when reading the blog post, but after reading Steve's ultimate plan (to consult for corporation), this moves makes sense. If I allow myself to have a long term vision/plan and take a step towards that plan, why shouldn't he?

Fortune 500 companies pay up to a couple of million dollars to the top 3 management consulting firms (granted, you hire a team at that price, not just one man), so Steve's starting fee is far from that price-

One idea for Steve: if your goal is to advise big Americans corporations to maximize your leverage, why don't you actually take a bigger step in that direction and start consulting for small businesses? It will probably have more leverage than individuals and you can charge an even bigger fee (the whole forum is gonna hate me for this ) It will give you a good training ground to apply your pyramid concept to economic questions (because at the end of the day, the CEO you advise will still have in his mind to increase shareholder's value)

Also, this would establish you as a consultant for business, rather than a personal coach... just a thought.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by dalante

Also, this would establish you as a consultant for business, rather than a personal coach... just a thought.

Yup, already in the works. When I put up a consulting/coaching page, I'll make it clear I can do biz consulting too. I've gotten some requests for this already.

[David Beard]

Please forgive me if I've put this comment in the middle of where it's not supposed to be. I tried finding a 'new post' starting point when I finished reading Steve's post on Life Coaching, but failed abysmally as you can see.

I wanted to obtain some viewpoints after reading Steve Pavlina's take on Life Coaching where he advises: "a good life coach will have superior knowledge and experience in the area(s) in which you want to improve".

In other parts of the blog Steve refers to Life Coaches as providing solutions and solving problems.

My personal philosophy around life coaching is that coaches 'never' give advice. Nor are coaches expected to have superior knoweldge about anyone's life beyond what the client knows themselves.

The essence of life coaching (in my orientation) is to facilitate a client to find THEIR OWN solutions, through a coaching process, which puts the client in charge of the process completely. They are held in a place during the process where they have room and support to discover their own solutions, at the pace which is right for where they are int heri journey.

As soon as Life Coaches start supplying solutions they create a dependency relationship, which takes the client in exactly the opposite direction to personal empowerment.

I would have no issue with someone calling themselves a personal development coach, with a promise to share process, information and experiences from their own autobiography. However, the minute a Life Coach puts themsleves into the process, in defference to the client being the focus, it detracts from the clients process of discovering of their own power.

Anything else, as I have mentioned, creates a dependency relationship, leaving the client with the experience that they didn't really have the knowledge or experience to tackle the issues from their own power.

From the general thrust of Steve's narrative, I get the impression he is in this camp as well (that it's the client's journey, not the coaches) and he states as much in the piece. However, what prompted my comment is the possible mis-interpretation of the comments around 'solution providing' by the coach.

This is my perspective. I'd be genuinely interested in reading others.

Cheers
David

[codefreeze]

Originally Posted by David Beard

My personal philosophy around life coaching is that coaches 'never' give advice. Nor are coaches expected to have superior knoweldge about anyone's life beyond what the client knows themselves.

The essence of life coaching (in my orientation) is to facilitate a client to find THEIR OWN solutions, through a coaching process, which puts the client in charge of the process completely. They are held in a place during the process where they have room and support to discover their own solutions, at the pace which is right for where they are int heri journey.

As soon as Life Coaches start supplying solutions they create a dependency relationship, which takes the client in exactly the opposite direction to personal empowerment.

Thanks David I found this a really interesting comment. You are quite right I think if you are talking about a pure definition of life coaching.

As an aside I think the life coaching community really needs to work on defining what life coaching is. Many people who sign up for life coaching want SOLUTIONS to real-world problems. When they are told they need to find their own solutions they can feel cheated and have the feeling "well what am I paying you for then!". I can really understand that and it's one of the reasons I've stayed away from getting involved in Life Coaching (using the purist definition).

I think rather than get hung up on terms though, it's perhaps better to think in terms of SERVICE provision. I think for many people they will just need pointing at the tools or in the right direction and they will take it from there. Others will need real solutions to specific problems e.g. boosting web traffic. Taking that as an example, why would someone need to "find their own solutions" when, for $500, they can get the benefit of Steve's years of experience. For Steve to turn around and say find your own solution while I hold your hand is "non-optimal"

I think Steve will be providing a spectrum of service that ranges from traditional life coaching to consulting on specific issues. I hear where you're coming from but I don't see it as a major concern - as long as people feel happy with the service provided. I think we also need to wait and see what Steve puts up on the website regarding what he will actually be providing.

[Steve Pavlina]

Life coaching is generally not what I'll be doing. I probably shouldn't use the word coaching because it's a bad metaphor, and I won't be using the same strategies that other coaches use. You could hire a life coach for 1/10th the price. That would normally involve multiple sessions over a long period of time -- often months.

My intention is to assist people who want help achieving a breakthrough in some area, meaning that I'm helping to devise practical solutions and in some cases even assist in the implementation details.

The idea here is to pick a problem, get it solved, and move on, not to create a long-term dependency relationship.

We all need help solving problems from time to time, and we can consult with others without giving away our power. I hired a raw food coach to help me transition to a raw food diet. It was only one phone call, not a long-term coaching relationship. He gave me some practical insights and solutions that proved very helpful. It was worthwhile to have the benefit of his years of experience as a raw foodist to guide me past the pitfalls.

[AltCon]

One comment I have on the post is the comparison between the pricing for Erin's readings and Steve's coaching.

I believe this is an apples and oranges comparison - the fact that someone gets paid a certain amount because they are a now proven physic and another amount because they are a personal development coach (unproven at this time) is not right to me. A correct comparison would be market driven within the same field. It is like comparing garbageman delivery to airline pilots.

Neil

[Permafrost]

I applaud Steve's decision to begin coaching and yeah, lets face reality, his rates will organically grow exponentially.

A great way to maximize the impact and leverage of this business though is to provide 'case-studies' on the website. Without mentioning names to profile interesting and unique consultations and writing about the results and outcomes. That way any people that have a similar problem that can't afford/aren't ready for coaching would get some knowledge and inspiration for free.

A great thing about this approach is that it would apply some very general concepts about personal development to many unique and specific situations. When people can see themselves in a specific situation and go 'aha', there is an answer - it can be very clarifying and empowering. And since there are so many unique situtations in life there would never be a shortage of clients.

That way Steve can continue doing what he does best and provide both very individual consultations and further the public knowledge at the same time simply by transcribing the case notes he will likely keep anyway.

[Thomas]

That's a nice idea!

Adding to that: I'd be happy to see _no_ testimonies.

[AltCon]

Originally Posted by Thomas

That's a nice idea!

Adding to that: I'd be happy to see _no_ testimonies.

Amen brother - I love the personal growth business but the kissing ass testimony stuff is over the top.

Neil

[foxbivvy]

My current mindset seems to be that time is more important than money. We certainly see plenty of people that have money but who are not happy. And plenty who are happy without money. (Truth: maybe I should change this a little - and attract more money - as it has its uses).

Coming from this, I am wondering why I cannot gain all I need from reading Steve's blog and his book when it comes out. The raw food coach is an example - I have read so much on this - I now know all of what he said in the interview and the background behind it, and more besides. E.g. I would not take Spinach too regularly as it is highly allergic. But the coach suggested it as a regular meal - and did not seem to mention the possible allergic issues. That's one point.

The advise is really great. The concepts of Truth / Love and power are bang on and highly practical / usable in the real world. Just the basic idea and a few example is enough to follow it very well.

I can see an area where Steve is coming from - it''s fun to solve problems - esp as an ENTJ. I can see him enjoying it, and that counts for a lot. And there are plenty of people who would like the boost of speaking to him personally.

To me it may seem weaker to want to ask someone for advise when I could solve it myself. I believe I have the power to be as good as Steve after reading his book. But will see, it may be harder than I think, I will look into optimizing it. Pushing through the levels on power vs. force. But above all - doing what I need to do now.

Hmm, ok, clearly I was not as aware of my own situation as I had thought. I little truth cast on it now. Probably, Steve would have told me this right away had I called.

Ok I can see value.

Truth be said, I do need more cash, and soon.

[David Beard]

Steve, thank you for the reply. You identified the issue when you comment that 'Coaching' is a bad metaphor.

Many people believe that when they hire a 'Life Coach' they will be getting a Tony Robbins protege'. ie: someone who will provide strategies, tools and perspectives, to help them power ahead. Unfortunately, pure Life Coaching is a far more sedate process, with long silences during which people work it out, at their own pace.

You also elaborated on the most critical step in the process of selecting a coach, which was where you stated (paraphrasing) 'do not engage anyone who won't provide a complimenatry session'. So many eventual issues between coach & client could have been resolved at the outset, had the coach clearly outlined the nature of their service and provided a sample experience. It only needs to be brief.

Most people (in my expereince) are looking for answers; a 'personal development consultant/ resource' (see: success of Steve Pavlina .com, Robbins Research, etc, etc).

Life Coaching has it's place, but in it's purest form it is not what many people expect. My personal opinion however, is that it is ultimately where the greatest growth for the individual is available.

And thank you again for taking time to reply to my post. It's a great body of work that you've created here. A fabulous resource in the field. I am tempted to recommend it to everyone I meet, but then I would be robbing them of the joy of self discovery. They'll find you when they're ready, of course.

Cheers: David

[foxbivvy]

Something is on my mind so I came back to the computer.

Tolle (in the power of now) talks about evil actions committed in the now during the second world war. Today we know a lot more about what is going on in the world. We know that if we spend so much on a luxury car - that such an amount could save 1000s of lives. And ensure an education so they can look after themselves for a long time to come. The answer should be obvious : spending the money on the luxury car option is just the same as killing them.

In the latest blog Steve seemed to talk about money as if it is nothing and it seemed you had to think of it as nothing (in order to attract it). I quote :-

"Is $500 a large or small amount? It depends on your perspective."

"If you’re in a scarcity mindset, it might seem like a huge sum. If you have a wealthy mindset, it may be a tiny amount. That may be hard to believe, but it’s true."

"I used to think $500 was a lot of money. It certainly seemed so when I would end a month with less than $100 total. If I gained or lost an extra $500, it could make a difference in my finances for months to come. An extra $500 was a significant amount of money."

But if you are devaluing money - then surely that is an self fulfilling attraction itself? I.e. you will end up with lots of money and not get much joy from it in the end (which coincidentally seems to happen - read Authentic happiness). Steve just seems too intelligent to make this mistake.. What have I missed?

My latest truth - I need money to help myself, so I can help people. So I can attract it that way. Money equals power for me to do this. But I do not consider myself important enough (compared to others) so that I must live in luxury over them. It would not make me help others better if I was pampered. Especially when friendships and a purpose in life are more important.

If the universe is all about us, the observer, and so each person can manipulate it (without affecting the others). Then it is all like a game and we can attract masses of cash to spend on ourselves without worrying about it. But this also excuses all kinds of evil !! And what if it were not this way? In truth - we are not sure right?

[Steve Pavlina]

Is it cheating to get help to solve a problem?

The truth is that most of us are incredibly bad at solving problems solo. We usually can't even feed ourselves without massive help from others. Even buying food is paying for help. We're very socially interconnected creatures and can't do much at all without relying on the contributions of others.

Did you build your own car or home? Did you invent the language you speak? Did you create the Internet you're currently using?

Cheater!

Go ahead and try to live without leaning on the solutions of other people. You will die.

I think it's more noble to openly request and receive help instead of trying to barrel through life under the illusion of self-power.

One of the best ways to solve a problem is to connect with someone who's already solved a similar one. Being able to identify and connect with the right social resources is a valid problem-solving tool in its own right. A fast way to solve a problem is to talk to someone who has a piece of the answer.

Sometimes just being around the right people is all you need... even a mindset can be a solution.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by foxbivvy

Something is on my mind so I came back to the computer.

Tolle (in the power of now) talks about evil actions committed in the now during the second world war. Today we know a lot more about what is going on in the world. We know that if we spend so much on a luxury car - that such an amount could save 1000s of lives. And ensure an education so they can look after themselves for a long time to come. The answer should be obvious : spending the money on the luxury car option is just the same as killing them.

In a comment Steve seemed to talk about money as if it is nothing and you need lots (in order to attract it). But if you are devaluing money - then surely that is an self fulfilling attraction itself? I.e. you will end up with lots of money and not get much joy from it in the end (which coincidentally seems to happen - read Authentic happiness). Steve just seems too intelligent to make this mistake.. What have I missed?

My latest truth - I need money to help myself, so I can help people. So I can attract it that way. Money equals power for me to do this.

If the universe is all about us, the observer, and so each person can manipulate it (without affecting the others). Then it is all like a game and we can attract masses of cash to spend on ourselves without worrying about it. But this also excuses all kinds of evil !! And what if it were not this way? In truth - we are not sure right?

This is the downstream version of the problem. Attacking the problem at that level merely attempts to treat the symptoms. The problem remains unsolved because it's not being addressed at the source level.

It's part of human nature to want to increase our power, which is our ability to fulfill our desires. For some this means being able to satisfy the desire for a luxury car. That part of our nature isn't going away anytime soon. To deny our desires is to work against our own nature. Historically we have already tried this approach, and it's a proven failure.

The solution is to accept and embrace our power... but to bring it into alignment with truth and love. This means fulfilling your desires while holding others responsibility for doing the same -- in a more harmonious way than we're doing now. Use your desires to inspire you to greater heights of service. If you want the luxury car, if you find it motivating, then go ahead and work for it by creating genuine value for others to earn it. This is better than doing without the car and shunning the service you'd have to provide to get it.

What we really need is a shift in consciousness, whereby we learn to fulfill our desires in alignment with truth and love. In order to do this, we have to create a tipping point to break the non-aligned patterns, such as power w/o truth and love (abusive capitalism) or love and truth w/o power (lightworker syndrome).

We need an and solution here, not either/or. There isn't a conflict between fulfilling our desires and helping others except to the degree we create that conflict.

[David Beard]

Yes, we all benefit from an integrated society, relying on each others' contribution to the whole (special knowledge, gifts, talents, etc).

My viewpoint isn't that the life coaching process is one of abandonment ('leaving someone to barrel through life under the illusion of self power'), but to facilitate the awakening in another, that they have the ability to choose how they will deal with their issues / problems and to seek out solutions.

There is nothing to prevent a client from asking their coach: What did they do in a similar situation? But were the coach to just offer a solution from their own autobiography, because they think they understand where the client's at, can be more harmfull than intended, (even with the best intentions).

The client wish to their coach is: 'don't let your truth become my limitation.'

The problem with so many P.D. solutions is that they are promulgated as universally applicable because they worked for the author, at a particular stage in their journey. We then think our methods may be 'just the thing' for our client and, as I say, wind up doing more harm than good.

The best analogy I can think of is the story of the nun who fell down a well and was trapped for three days, during which time she attained enlightenment. After she was rescued, she then spent the rest of her life shoving people down wells.

Bearing in mind, we're only talking about pure Life Coaching here. Not internet coaching, not dietary coaching, sports, house or car building coaching. No one can profess a specialised knowledge in someone else's life, and are delusional if they try.

I certainly agree no person is an island. We all rely on the special knowledge of others to have houses built, etc and enjoy the legacy left to us for our survival. My message is, that when it comes to making decisions about our own life issues, the help we are best served by is someone who will support us while we discover our own truth and not impose theirs.

ie: the danger of asking others to resolve your own 'life' issues was best stated in the Life of Brian: "Of course he's the messiah. I should know, I've followed enough of them!".

I would never suggest a person try to do life without relying on others. That'd just be foolish. However, self-power, is the most powerful 'illusion' to embrace. And the Life Coaching process is the fastest way to come to that illusion. In my opinion.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I think it's more noble to openly request and receive help instead of trying to barrel through life under the illusion of self-power.

I'd take it a step further and say it's downright irresponsible and a huge waste of human potential (and potential in general) to not leverage other people, especially the strengths of others and what people are good at.

The more we try to do what we're best at and use other people for what we aren't good at (when they are good at it), and the more we outsource what nobody is really good at or what nobody wants to do to technology and other such systems ("technology" doesn't have to be electronic), the more empowered and effective we will become.

Oh and this isn't a response to Steve; more of a general statement using Steve's post as a jump pad.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Bruce Achterberg

I'd take it a step further and say it's downright irresponsible and a huge waste of human potential (and potential in general) to not leverage other people, especially the strengths of others and what people are good at.

The more we try to do what we're best at and use other people for what we aren't good at (when they are good at it), and the more we outsource what nobody is really good at or what nobody wants to do to technology and other such systems ("technology" doesn't have to be electronic), the more empowered and effective we will become.

Spoken like a true maximizer.

[AltCon]

Originally Posted by Bruce Achterberg

I'd take it a step further and say it's downright irresponsible and a huge waste of human potential (and potential in general) to not leverage other people, especially the strengths of others and what people are good at.

The more we try to do what we're best at and use other people for what we aren't good at (when they are good at it), and the more we outsource what nobody is really good at or what nobody wants to do to technology and other such systems ("technology" doesn't have to be electronic), the more empowered and effective we will become.

Oh and this isn't a response to Steve; more of a general statement using Steve's post as a jump pad.

I would say that this is back to the power of patterns, most things have been done before if you learn how to abstract your situation. From that point there are successful patterns that let you get over most stumbling blocks so that you can work on the interesting stuff and not make stupid mistakes.

It helps if you have done some object oriented programming but it works in real life as well.

Neil

[foxbivvy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Achterberg

I'd take it a step further and say it's downright irresponsible and a huge waste of human potential (and potential in general) to not leverage other people, especially the strengths of others and what people are good at.

The more we try to do what we're best at and use other people for what we aren't good at (when they are good at it), and the more we outsource what nobody is really good at or what nobody wants to do to technology and other such systems ("technology" doesn't have to be electronic), the more empowered and effective we will become.

Isn't it great where one thing happens and it kicks off other ideas. I am soaking all this up, or rather having it re-activated in my brain. I can see how being around the right kind of people really does rub off.

[foxbivvy]

Realism solves things.

I've read about the spiral where people want more and more and get less and less out of it.

But I know things that will motivate me now that are not extreme by any means.

The time to answer how I shall stop going down that spiral would be later. But even so, I believe I could handle it, most of it by including in my life areas like volunteering, close friendships, giving. In addition to things for myself. I feel both of these are needed. I feel it is only when the balance is out - usually not enough pleasure from giving - that people turn to more and more of one particular pleasure and it becomes an excess.


.....

[foxbivvy]

Simon Cowl is a great man and does lots for charity. But all of the happiness studies indicate that he would get little from his (really) massive house and many flash cars. We need so much, but not that much. I want to set a better example. He's set a pretty good example. I would like to push things forward.

[foxbivvy]

Coincidentally Cowell seeked out a very successful mentor in his industry. He then bugged him until he agreed to be his mentor. He knows the routes and the shortcuts. He is a 3 (enneagram). But we can all develop and use the power of the 3 whenever we need it.

[David Beard]

Just a point of clarification which seems to be needed..

It's a no-brainer that leveraging off the skills, knoweldge and experience of others is a certain way to move yourself forward. A point several contributors have been quick to make. Terrific.

However, the central message with which this thread started, is that Life Coaching in it's true useage, is not personal development consulting with which it is often confused. As stated at the beginning of the discussion, there is room for a clarification within the P.D. industry, as to what exactly is meant by the term 'Life Coaching'.

My experience has been that some people who have investigated a career as a life coach are disappointed to discover that the process was not what they imagined. Specifically, they imagined they would be a kind of Personal Development Mentor, giving people the benefit of their wide reading and toolkit of processes. Giving advice on personal growth issues for the benefit of their clients.

From that place, many do go on to become personal development mentors, either within a corporate environment, or as an individual consultant. And they understand the distiction between what they do, and life coaching.

I just thought this point needed to be re-stated to keep the discussion on track.
Cheers: David.

[foxbivvy]

Originally Posted by David Beard

Just a point of clarification which seems to be needed..

It's a no-brainer that leveraging off the skills, knoweldge and experience of others is a certain way to move yourself forward. A point several contributors have been quick to make.

Yes, but I believe he made that point to me. He reminded me of the power and efficiency of advise from knowledgeable people in that area - vs. just from reading books. I needed telling. It's a key tool for people looking to get ahead..

[dannielo]

Steve,

How are you going to generate your so-loved passive income in this new venture? Did you think about putting on sale seminars on dvd-sets, or audio programs?