Moneyless limbo 101?

[Ninja]

I've noticed that a lot of forummers (including myself) wrestle with the question: how will I survive if I quit my job?

Steve, how about a blogpost that tackles this subject? I know bills are pieces of paper, we're only defending dust, and so on. And I do believe you: it's better to be poor and alive, than rich and (mentally) dead. I think life isn't supposed to be an easy ride, a neutral zone, somekind of twisted status-quo that has to be maintained at the cost of your very soul. Life is about taking risks, swinging hard, aiming for the bleachers and laughing at it all.

However, in order to live, one needs a body. And to sustain that body, one needs a roof over their heads (especially during winter or if you live in a country with a very unfriendly climate), food, hygiene (to prevent getting sick) and health care. All of these things cost money and without them, chances are you WILL die. And finding your passion and making money off it, isn't easy when you're dead. Yet, you do encourage us to quit mind-numbing jobs and then chase your passion, rather than doing some bliss-hunting on the side until you make enough money to quit your previous source of income.

How can we survive the moneyless limbo between our old jobs and the moment we can make enough cash from our passion? Not all passions are instant moneymakers: you can't quit your job on friday, write an amazing book on saturday, find an agent/publisher on sunday, and leave home on monday to cash your first big fat advance check.

And things become even harder when there are others, like young children and pets, who have to depend on us for survival...

How about it, Steve? I'd love to see a 'moneyless limbo 101' from you!

[Ninja]

By the way, I just wanted to say: I don't think you're an idiot or something like that ("hmpf! that moron doesn't know what REAL life looks like!" ). If anything, I have the feeling that I'm the idiot. That there is a solution to make it through the dreaded limbo without dumpsterdiving and sleeping under bridges, but that it's right in front of my nose and I keep missing it. And when you tell us, I'll go: "D-OH! Why didn't I think of that?!"

It's like packing for a vacation and having this nagging feeling that you have forgotten something really important, but you just can't put your finger on it. I know I'm missing something. An obvious solution that is staring me in the face, and I just. Can't. See. It. *bangs head against wall*

[Monique7nuns]

You mean the fine art of being frugal?

Speaking as one who's been here more than once, it really doesn't take a lot of money to live on. I think the most effective independent frugal experience I've had was when I rented a room in a YWCA and lived off around $800/month which included making payments to credit cards as well as rent, food, gas, etc. Now, w/out rent or utilities I'm get by fairly comfortably on $500/month.

There are cheap places to live w/others - shared rentals or people looking for live-in helpers which is what I'd be on the look out for were I not where I live now. There are many, many ways to be frugal and loads of info out there on how to do it... and besides that it isn't nearly as grim as most make it out to be.

I can't remember a time I've ever felt more liberated than when I lived in my truck before the YWCA. Actually, it was probably camping in a tent.

[persephonevii]

Originally Posted by Monique7nuns

There are cheap places to live w/others - shared rentals or people looking for live-in helpers which is what I'd be on the look out for were I not where I live now. There are many, many ways to be frugal and loads of info out there on how to do it... and besides that it isn't nearly as grim as most make it out to be.

I can't remember a time I've ever felt more liberated than when I lived in my truck before the YWCA. Actually, it was probably camping in a tent.

True, being frugal isn't as bad as I thought it would be. Nowadays I do my best to make sure I know my money is going to something with value, if I have to spend it... and if I need or want it. Or if I'm going to use it within the next month. I used to be a big old junk collector (still am a bit, but making that transition now). I'm proud of my growing ability to start to say 'No' to things, and knowing that if something bad does come up at least I'll have some cash stored away to deal with it.

Though, I would still like to see an article on 'Moneyless Limbo 101' too. I have heard that Steve was only employed once for 6 months before moving onto things he loved doing, such as the Dweeb dude. Sooo... how did he survive in the period when Dweeb wasn't making any money?

[jenlili]

Originally Posted by Monique7nuns

I can't remember a time I've ever felt more liberated than when I lived in my truck before the YWCA. Actually, it was probably camping in a tent.

I've heard (from a very reliable source) that being homeless for more than 90 days is risking being homeless forever...Of course I don't know all the ins and outs of that, like: did you "choose" to be homeless or run out of places to stay. While you were living in your tent or truck did you have a place to bathe and did you have food.

The thing you don't mention is children. This is one I've really had to think about. (I have kids---I don't have money or a job.) In the movie, "The Pursuit of Happyness," the son gets dragged around to public bathrooms and homeless shelters for 6 months. I really have to question the acceptability of that. Just how much of a sacrifice for Mom's or Dad's self-fulfillment is really OK?

This isn't a hypothetical question. I'm very close to getting evicted, and can't convince myself to take "any" job just to pay the rent. None the less, I've registered with a temp agency and the temp jobs I've had so far aren't covering the bills. My kids will have a place to stay, their dad hasn't deserted them, but I know they would consider it abandonment if I didn't have a place for them to stay with me.

@Ninja. Doesn't Steve write from personal experience? Hasn't he said Erin was working? Maybe you can take his experience and try to apply it to your own situation?

(Personally, I don't think I can do that right now because I seem to be stuck in the lowest levels of consciousness. OK I'm not suicidal. I would NEVER do that to my kids...even if I thought they'd be better off without me, they wouldn't get that...they would only get the being abandoned part. And I never think that anyway. NO ONE, not their father, not their "other mothers" will ever love them as much as I do. Just not possible.)

[Monique7nuns]

Originally Posted by jenlili

I've heard (from a very reliable source) that being homeless for more than 90 days is risking being homeless forever...Of course I don't know all the ins and outs of that, like: did you "choose" to be homeless or run out of places to stay. While you were living in your tent or truck did you have a place to bathe and did you have food.

The thing you don't mention is children. This is one I've really had to think about. (I have kids---I don't have money or a job.) In the movie, "The Pursuit of Happyness," the son gets dragged around to public bathrooms and homeless shelters for 6 months. I really have to question the acceptability of that. Just how much of a sacrifice for Mom's or Dad's self-fulfillment is really OK?

Hi Jenlili..

My first homeless experience was when I lived in an art studio on campus, against the rules. That was more to save money than anything. I had a gym membership so that's where I showered. There was also a small refrigerator and I had a microwave.

The tent example was just from regular camping which I really loved doing. I've known of people who've lived in one as well though on a longer term basis.

When I mentioned living in my truck it was only for a little over a week.. and yeah it was a matter of finances, but also a choice. I had a job but it was too little too late. I had an option to move in with someone but by that time I was just too freaked out stay there due to other circumstances. The alternative (living in my truck) was more appealing than stay actually. I called it a leap faith, and just took off.. well, it's how I got there in the first place - by the flip of a coin. Even though I had no idea how, I knew everything would work out. And that's when I found the YWCA in another state.

No I don't have children and I can't imagine living my gypsy lifestyle with them. I'm sure it's possible though.

I have been fortunate to have family to help me out. It is generally a socially unacceptable situation, but then isn't that what family is for? Not in the mooching sense, but these days it isn't uncommon.

The important thing is that you know it will work out. The Pursuit of Happiness was one of the worst movies I've ever seen because it painted such a bleak picture of homelessness. I hated it. I mean, yes it is challenging and I'm sure that's how it is for some, but the way I perceived that story was the main character created the bleakness - like a vortex of despair and that I feel was his choice. It's just the way he had to learn the lesson I guess.

Besides that depiction, I believe whatever challenges we are given, they come our way because we can handle them whether or not we realize it at the time.

[Ninja]

To be frugal, means you have to make due with less money. Not no money at all. You could save up some money by staying on your old job a bit longer, but that doesn't comply with Steve's advice to hit the eject button now when the suckyness of your job reaches critical levels.

[fountainAtlas]

Maybe, just maybe, there is something called a selection bias. And that for every person like Steve their 5 or 100 that become homeless forever and never have the privilege to post on a forum. Sure a lot of people at work are mindless people whose only desire is to make enough money to fulfill their chemical dependency (coffee, alcohol, and so on...). We who have all the creature comforts of Kings (relative to the past, minus the horde of concubines) may at times take it for granted.

As an answer to the original poster, why can’t you write a book in your spare time? Unless you want to open a retail store there are few reasons why you can’t try a business in your spare time. Also, doing it like this doesn’t sacrifice the health and future of your children.

[The Wise Turtle]

How you do it will depend on all of the variables of humanity. Where you live, what your skills are, who your friends are, and how you approach getting your needs met will all be important in defining how you end up making your passion and your love your life's work.

Consider taking a look at your real needs (not those illusions that mainstream society brainwashed you to think were important) and put those on your top priorities list. Then work back from there.

Also, consider that whatever happens, really whatever happens while you are doing what you love and pursuing the things that are most valuable to you, you're automatically better off than you'd be if you were trapped in some job you can't stand or that's leading nowhere good.

Of course, having some kinds of plans is useful, but even if those plans don't work out as well as you imagine, you're still going to be better off making the choice to commit to living your life authentically, passionately, and joyously, right?

Peace, Love, and Bicycles
Turil
(who is doing what she loves, and enjoying it a hell of a lot more than anything else she's ever done!)

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by fountainAtlas

As an answer to the original poster, why can’t you write a book in your spare time? Unless you want to open a retail store there are few reasons why you can’t try a business in your spare time. Also, doing it like this doesn’t sacrifice the health and future of your children.

Don't worry about that: I don't have kids and I'm not planning on getting pregnant in this lifetime. Those lil' buggers are expensive and unless I write the new Harry Potter, it will be hard enough to support myself. Very few people get rich from writing children's books.

I can write a book in my spare time (I'm working on a book right now ), but if there is a way I can survive without a job (and with my health and sanity intact), I'm all for it! I'm just curious how it might be done. I hear stories (or read them in the newspaper) all the time about people who are fed up with their jobs, leave just like that and build their own business/become famous singers/stuff like that. You can make good money from your own business or as a popstar, but it takes a lot of no-halfassing-full-time dedication (so you will have to quit your job or find a way to survive on five minutes of sleep per week) if you REALLY want to make it big. And when you are succesfull, it will still take some time before your work pays off. Enter the limbo.

These are the ways I think it can be done:

- save up money first, so you can survive without additional income: this means you can't quit your job right away.

- have someone support you: not an option for everyone, possible moral objections, risk of the supporter cutting off the cashflow.

Anyone else have a briliant suggestion?

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by The Wise Turtle

How you do it will depend on all of the variables of humanity. Where you live, what your skills are, who your friends are, and how you approach getting your needs met will all be important in defining how you end up making your passion and your love your life's work.

Consider taking a look at your real needs (not those illusions that mainstream society brainwashed you to think were important) and put those on your top priorities list. Then work back from there.

Also, consider that whatever happens, really whatever happens while you are doing what you love and pursuing the things that are most valuable to you, you're automatically better off than you'd be if you were trapped in some job you can't stand or that's leading nowhere good.

Of course, having some kinds of plans is useful, but even if those plans don't work out as well as you imagine, you're still going to be better off making the choice to commit to living your life authentically, passionately, and joyously, right?

Peace, Love, and Bicycles
Turil
(who is doing what she loves, and enjoying it a hell of a lot more than anything else she's ever done!)

Well, trying to get by on bare basics (no luxury foods, second-hand clothing) would make it easier to reach my goal. The less money I need to survive, the less books I'd have to write/sell per year to cover my expenses. My country is split up in to basically three parts: densely populated (Amsterdam and the surrounding big cities), 'townish', and rural. There are almost no major businesses in the rural part and it has a poor train connection to the big cities and smaller towns. Because of this, it is not a popular place to live (no one wants to travel three hours to get to work) and rents are low. But I realized something: it doesn't matter if the infrastructure and industry is bad! As long as there is a postoffice nearby or my publisher accepts e-mailed submissions, I won't have to worry about commuting at all! Moving to a rural area will save me thousands of euros! And if I can get a place with a garden, I can save more money by growing my own food... And every euro I save, is one less book that has to be sold before my expenses are covered.

Heh, I might actually pull this off...

P.S. What are you doing?

[fountainAtlas]

Originally Posted by Ninja

I hear stories (or read them in the newspaper) all the time about people who are fed up with their jobs, leave just like that and build their own business/become famous singers/stuff like that.

I am not trying to be a downer, but I am sure that is how I will come off. I do not doubt that it happens, but have you ever meet any of them? Moreover, have you ever taken the time to talk to those who risked it all and lost? To pursue a course of action without even exploring the possible risks is not prudent. Will you know all the risks? No. But knowing some of the risks helps you prepare for them both mentally and physically. I also suspect that by quitting your job one becomes increasingly motivated by hunger. But, I also suspect, that some may become overly desperate and cause permanent damage to their possible standard of living.

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by fountainAtlas

I am not trying to be a downer, but I am sure that is how I will come off. I do not doubt that it happens, but have you ever meet any of them? Moreover, have you ever taken the time to talk to those who risked it all and lost? To pursue a course of action without even exploring the possible risks is not prudent. Will you know all the risks? No. But knowing some of the risks helps you prepare for them both mentally and physically. I also suspect that by quitting your job one becomes increasingly motivated by hunger. But, I also suspect, that some may become overly desperate and cause permanent damage to their possible standard of living.

I think you're right... but I also think there are two types of 'unexpected' job-quitters.

Type A: has never given it any thought, but becomes inspired and impulsively quits his (or her, of course) job the very next day. Then he sits at home, blinks a few times and says: okay... now what? Then the second the first post-job bill arrives, he/she panickes ("What have I done? What have I DONE?! ")and things just go downhill from there.

Type B: for quite a while now, has had the feeling that he doesn't belong at his job. He has toyed with the idea to just chuck it all and pursue his dream of owning his own business. He already has all the details thought out and is fairly confident he can make it, but it would require full-time dedication to really get it of the ground. It is friday, the end of the day, when his boss (Mr. Bigshot) barges in and demands he works this weekend, even though he has a romantic getaway planned with his wife. He pleads and tries to reason, but Mr. Bigshot won't budge and also warns him that changing his computer desktop to a picture of his cat is *growl!* stricktly against company policy! Fed up, he suddenly stands up and tells his boss that he can shove his policy in a place where the sun doesn't shine, and that he'll have to find a new sucker to do his job. He quits!!! When he gets home, he's shocked at first ("I can't believe I did that!"), but figures that he might as well take the plunge and try to start that dream business of his. Will it pan out? Who knows? No one will, unless he tries.

Both A and B have no financial back-up plan (savings, someone who's willing to support them), but B might actually have a shot at a better life.

[fountainAtlas]

Ninja,

I agree the B will have more chance of success. But why not be C? If you are truly committed than you can take the remaining 128 hours of your work week to pursue your dreams. And if there comes a time when you have to choose between your business and your job, choose your business. In many jobs it takes few offenses to get fired. So use sick days to your advantage and work like a mad dog in your off hours.

After this reply I think what I am trying to get is clear and I think I understand your point as well.

I enjoyed this discussion and I hope you found it helpful.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by fountainAtlas

I agree the B will have more chance of success. But why not be C? If you are truly committed than you can take the remaining 128 hours of your work week to pursue your dreams. And if there comes a time when you have to choose between your business and your job, choose your business. In many jobs it takes few offenses to get fired. So use sick days to your advantage and work like a mad dog in your off hours.

What about a balanced life? What about love? What about deep discussions with other people? What about heart-to-heart discussions? What about taking a walk in nature? What about spending serious time on Personal Development? What about your mind staying at peace without becoming a mad-house of busy-busy-busy-busy?

Sure some people can do what you suggest - work regular 40 hour, and then put 30 hours on their own time to fullfill their passion. I know I couldn't, I need time for the other aspect of life. Life, to me, can't just be about work. Thus, this path of working 40 hours at a job, and then 30 hours on a second business wouldn't work for me.

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by fountainAtlas

Ninja,

I agree the B will have more chance of success. But why not be C? If you are truly committed than you can take the remaining 128 hours of your work week to pursue your dreams. And if there comes a time when you have to choose between your business and your job, choose your business. In many jobs it takes few offenses to get fired. So use sick days to your advantage and work like a mad dog in your off hours.

After this reply I think what I am trying to get is clear and I think I understand your point as well.

I enjoyed this discussion and I hope you found it helpful.

But "C" is trying to 'ease in' into his own business. And that's not what we are discussing here. The discussion is about those who go cold turkey

Originally Posted by seeker5

What about a balanced life? What about love? What about deep discussions with other people? What about heart-to-heart discussions? What about taking a walk in nature? What about spending serious time on Personal Development? What about your mind staying at peace without becoming a mad-house of busy-busy-busy-busy?

Sure some people can do what you suggest - work regular 40 hour, and then put 30 hours on their own time to fullfill their passion. I know I couldn't, I need time for the other aspect of life. Life, to me, can't just be about work. Thus, this path of working 40 hours at a job, and then 30 hours on a second business wouldn't work for me.

My thoughts exactely. Writing takes a lot out of me. It's not the typing: I could keep that up for hours before losing feeling in my fingers . It's the creative process: I begin writing, the inspiration starts to flow, more and more ideas pop up in my head and I type like a mad-woman to keep up with the story that is playing like a movie in my head. At this point, I'm completely into my work and you would need to violently shake my shoulder or spray me with the gardenhose to get my attention. Eventually, I reach a point where I'm spend, usually the end of the chapter. I slow down, end the chapter and feel like I've just ran a marathon. It feels great and I walk around the rest of the day with a big silly grin on my face, but I need to rest before another 'burst'.

I can't relax and write in the morning if I know I need to catch my train, and it would be extremely hard to get into 'the zone' in the evening, if I have just gotten home from a soul-sucking job and all I want to do is eat, watch tv and sleep. Weekends, I would need to recover. Nothing will drain me of my energy more than a 'tolerable' job, and compared to my true love, ALL jobs fail to rank above 'tolerable'. I would find a way if forced to (I'm currently in college, but I have worked a full-time job before), but I think it would be better for me if I try to avoid cubicleland as much as possible. Strangely, I don't have the feeling that it is going to be a problem. It's not going to be easy, but if I keep at it, I can make it happen. There has never been anything that has ever felt as 'right' as this.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by fountainAtlas

I am not trying to be a downer, but I am sure that is how I will come off. I do not doubt that it happens, but have you ever meet any of them? Moreover, have you ever taken the time to talk to those who risked it all and lost? To pursue a course of action without even exploring the possible risks is not prudent. Will you know all the risks? No. But knowing some of the risks helps you prepare for them both mentally and physically. I also suspect that by quitting your job one becomes increasingly motivated by hunger. But, I also suspect, that some may become overly desperate and cause permanent damage to their possible standard of living.

Ouch. I read that, and thought about my first attempt to quit my job and get a job I loved. That was after I graduated from college, and I quit my programming job, refused a number of other offers. That was 7 years ago, the attempt failed miserably, I became "overly desperate" and I lived at a lower standard of living in all the ways one can count a lower standard of living for a good 5.5 years. That meant, for the next 5.5 years, I worked at jobs I hated much worst just to survive - like fast food, retail, factories. My self-esteem, confidence, self-view, living of standards, health, all of that went way down for all of these years. All of that without working toward a job or business I loved. I consider it a miracle of a sort that I've finally arising out of that situation, and am still alive.

I also finally finished paying off the debt 8 months ago that was 80% incurred right when I quit my job 7 years ago.

Had I had to do it again, I probably wouldn't have quit my job 7 years ago. I'd have stayed and worked on the side (not 30 hours but some) to build up my skills, and save up a lot of money and go to graduate school. Maybe I could have reduced the hours to 30 hours too, I was paid well enough that I could still have lived fine on reduced hours. My job wasn't horrible, I actually enjoyed a good part of it, I just didn't want to do it as a career. Actually that job I quit is still the job I've enjoyed the most so far. I wanted to hurry up and get into a job I loved instead of taking the slow way to build up my skills, both job skills and my internal skills. Instead, that "quick-way" seemed to be taking a lot longer as I'm still not there.

I don't regret it, because I guess it's no use to regret anything in life. I'm sure I've learned a lot good lessons, but I've also learned bad lessons that I'm still working on removing. So for me, my journey is not over. The quitting may not have "permanently damaged" my standard of living, but I'm not yet at the point where I can say "yes it was worth it, I've finally gotten to get to do what I love." I hope one day that I will be able to say that. Unfortunately, from my point of view, right now, it's still up in the air whether I'll ever get to say that.

[fountainAtlas]

Originally Posted by seeker5

What about a balanced life? What about love? What about deep discussions with other people? What about heart-to-heart discussions? What about taking a walk in nature? What about spending serious time on Personal Development? What about your mind staying at peace without becoming a mad-house of busy-busy-busy-busy?

I believe all of those things are important; otherwise I would not spend my time on boards like this. But, I have seen entrepreneurs and most had to go through a phase, where they did not have a work life balance. All they did was work all the time (in excess of 100 hours a week). But now they have dream jobs and they have a work life balance that only financial independency can allow. All I am saying is that from what I have seen one has to be a fanatic about their business for it really to amount to anything.

Now take everything I say with a grain of salt, I have a full time job and spend my free time pursuing my general interest, entertainment, and walking on the beach.

Lastly, I know I strayed off topic. I do not really have any advice on your original question, except buy lots of rice?

[sbdiane]

In my case I realized I was unhappy in my job and noticed I had enough money saved up already to live on for at least a year. (You all live below your means, right? If you don't, you should.) Once I figured out something I really really wanted to do, I left my job.

Now I've done it (it wasn't a money-making thing) and I'm left wondering what to do next. I'm hoping it will all work out. With the leftover money I can still live for a year spending time volunteering, meeting people and hopefully developing the skills and connections to do whatever is next.

[jaydeschizo]

Ninja,

Just a question, what do you have to lose? How much lower can you fall? You have no family to support, only yourself. If all you want to do is write, move to some small town in Limburg, try to get a room or small appartment (look at price not any type of luxury outside the basics) you should be able to find something for 200/300E pm incl (for example a student room)

you'd need approx 100E a month for health insurance, but if you make no money you can fill out a belastingdienst(IRS) form (I can send you the link) and you will get a lot of support because you have no more income. probably around 60E a month free money!

after that you would need about 150-200E for food, but if you eat cheaply you could get by on 100 ->150E per month.

So you need
300+100+150=550E p/m and you would survive throw in a few extra euro's for second hand clothes and you're there(not a fun life, but you won't be homeless or on the streets). I'm assuming you have a pc laptop or pen/paper, otherwise you could use a local library.

so, working at either minimum wage you can make that money in aprox 15hrs per week (or if you have a way to make more than minimum wage it's even less hours), leaving you all the rest to write, you can go on government support, that would be more than sufficient to supply you with that money.

Or better yet, go live in a squatted (kraakpand) house, or antikraak, is even cheaper like 100-150 pm MAX

We live in a very social country, even though I don't care much for some of it, there is a very good safety net that will prevent you from becoming homeless, or going hungry. It's all here you just have to look for it.

btw, how old are you? Are you still eligible to got to college? You would be able to get government loans with low interest and an awesome long term pay off system.

Any questions send me a PM

[bdc]

Originally Posted by seeker5

What about a balanced life?

I was confused about this for so long that I feel compelled to speak whenever someone uses the word balance in this context.

Balance is not a condition you achieve. Balance is an activity you perform.

We sometimes talk about balance as if it were a noun, but it is properly understood as a verb.

Try standing on one leg with both arms in the air. Do you notice the constant swaying and twitching? Balance is continuous motion and reversal.

A balanced life is a life of ceaseless action. Only the expert gymnast finds serenity in balance. Only the expert gymnast can eat a pizza or take a nap without falling.

Balance is rarely what we crave. Balance is the action we must perform right now to avoid hitting the ground with our face.

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by jaydeschizo

Ninja,

Just a question, what do you have to lose? How much lower can you fall? You have no family to support, only yourself. If all you want to do is write, move to some small town in Limburg, try to get a room or small appartment (look at price not any type of luxury outside the basics) you should be able to find something for 200/300E pm incl (for example a student room)

you'd need approx 100E a month for health insurance, but if you make no money you can fill out a belastingdienst(IRS) form (I can send you the link) and you will get a lot of support because you have no more income. probably around 60E a month free money!

after that you would need about 150-200E for food, but if you eat cheaply you could get by on 100 ->150E per month.

So you need
300+100+150=550E p/m and you would survive throw in a few extra euro's for second hand clothes and you're there(not a fun life, but you won't be homeless or on the streets). I'm assuming you have a pc laptop or pen/paper, otherwise you could use a local library.

so, working at either minimum wage you can make that money in aprox 15hrs per week (or if you have a way to make more than minimum wage it's even less hours), leaving you all the rest to write, you can go on government support, that would be more than sufficient to supply you with that money.

Or better yet, go live in a squatted (kraakpand) house, or antikraak, is even cheaper like 100-150 pm MAX

We live in a very social country, even though I don't care much for some of it, there is a very good safety net that will prevent you from becoming homeless, or going hungry. It's all here you just have to look for it.

btw, how old are you? Are you still eligible to got to college? You would be able to get government loans with low interest and an awesome long term pay off system.

Any questions send me a PM

Actually, I still live with my parents. I still go to college (and live off a small loan) and I don't have to pay board until I finish and get a job. Can't get any cheaper housing than that . I made this post more to learn from others' experiences so I can form a 'battle plan' when I graduate, if that makes any sense . My parents support my writing efforts and I know they would be willing to let me stay for free even after I finish college, but I'm not comfortable with that. When I finish, I'll be 25 and I feel that as a grown woman who by then has the time and papers for a decent full-time job, I shouldn't be mooching off my parents. I want to make it as a full-time writer, but not at their expense. I think I should already be very grateful that they don't make me work part-time right now.

I actually do need to pay a little more for my healthcare, as not all my meds are covered. I pay about 150 euros per month, though I do get about 60 euros healthcare support back from the government. As for clothing, I only buy what I need, though not second-hand. In a pinch, I could do that though. Fortunately, time and money are not problems right now. But they might be once college is over, so i'm making my battle plan now, incase I haven't made it as a writer by then

A 'kraakpand' could be a cheap option . If I can save money on rent, I won't have to work so many hours. 15 hours should be doable

[sbdiane]

Buying second-hand is often better than new because you can often buy name brand clothing for way cheap. I started second-hand shopping in college because I was poor, but even when I had a good job I just couldn't give it up. I'd get a lot of compliments on my wardrobe, too.

The best thing you can do is live below your means. It is not difficult to do. Just resist mindless consumerism (and thrift store binges, too.)

[Dave Kaminski]

"It is vain to do with more what can be done with less"
-William of Occam

I suggest you buy anything and everything you can second hand, and donate or resell anything you're no longer using (the sooner the better, as consumer goods rarely become more valuable over short periods of time).

"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity"
-Bruce Lee

[Brutha]

Maybe you can find a job that in line with what you want to.

Have you thought about translating other peoples novels into your native language. As I understand, in that business there is a more or less fixed payment for that job.

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Maybe you can find a job that in line with what you want to.

Have you thought about translating other peoples novels into your native language. As I understand, in that business there is a more or less fixed payment for that job.

There is a job that is in line with what I want to do: being a children's book writer. Unfortunately, competition is fierce and payment is not fixed, but it is a job nontheless.

Translating... ugh! Nothing sounds more depressing than having to completely rewrite someone ELSE's story, reminding myself at every keystroke that they have succeeded where I have yet to.

[DivaLion]

Bravo, Ninja! Your attitude is right on.

I've been doing a lot of "retreat" work lately to get clearer on my purpose, my passions, my next steps, and it's been a time of constant revelations and epiphanies for me. I'd gotten frustrated because I felt like I needed to take some risks, make some changes, forge strongly ahead in the direction my heart pointed, and yet I was dragging my heels, feeling uncertain and overwhelmed.

One of my most recent "aha!" moments revealed the source of that frustration-- I have been thinking not about what I *actually* want to do, but rather spending all my creative energy thinking about ways to turn my artistic gifts towards doing anything BUT what I actually want to do. An entire adult lifetime of being practical and taking care of the details of daily life had trained me to think about how I could get "useful" work that was sort of, vaguely, in some way like what I love doing. Usually in my life this has worked out to taking admin jobs related to the arts or to innovative projects, where I get to help OTHER people be creative and take leadership roles.

Part of the "aha!" was taking some personality/career tests; what surprised me was not the results, but the pattern I noticed in my answers-- how often the things I ranked "dislike" were tasks I had done all my life to make a living!

No wonder I wasn't getting excited about the idea of following my own path...I was doing to myself what well-meaning parents do to so many kids: trying to "normalize" my passions into a more sensible type of work. Not a step forward, but a step sideways-- not much better at all. Julia Cameron in her books calls these "shadow" careers, where you do something that keeps you close to your love without actually being your love.

Stick to your guns, Ninja. I wish when I was your age and had set out so enthusiastically to pursue my dreams (man, they were great years, too), that someone had come along right about the point I was starting to lose steam and to believe that I had to eat my vegetables (work day jobs to get by) before I could have my dessert (pursuing my dream), and shown me how backwards and soul-killing that is.

Don't get me wrong; I've had a lot of great experiences, and I don't regret the path that made me who I am. But there was a lot of damage to undo, a lot of re-learning, a lot of healing, and I'd as soon spare someone else the unnecessary effort of going that same route when there's a better one available.

In the end, nothing will do but the things that drive your heart to beat. Anything else truly is settling "down".

[DivaLion]

I've been thinking a lot about this thread, because it's a question I circle back to over and over myself. And hey, what better way to solve your own problem than to try to solve it for someone else?

Like someone else mentioned here, some people do realize one day that they have enough savings to live on for a while, and decide to invest it in themselves. The danger is that you'll burn through your money, not accomplish anything, and end up worse off than you started, which, like Seeker5, was something I did as well-- hard lessons in personal discipline learned! But still, it's a valid way to go if you DO have the discipline.

Having someone else who's willing to support you cannot be underestimated, be it spouse, parents, etc. That is truly a gift from the universe and a tremendous gift of love and soul from the person who offers it.

Some people take jobs that allow them to do other things to occupy themselves. I worked in a box office for a while where I wrote a three-act play and several other projects in longhand in between phone calls, because we were encouraged to bring stuff to do to keep from getting bored at those times.

If you can work online, it is very possible to do some kind of work that lets you set your own hours. I have a part-time second job right now that I can do at 3 AM in my pajamas on the couch if I want to (and often do).

As has been widely discussed here, you can choose to live extremely simply so there's less financial pressure, and/or to seek out some kind of government support. My brother-in-law is a dancer who moved to Europe after realizing that he could get government support for his art over there that he could not get in America.

I might have mentioned this in another thread, but a filmmaking book I read recommended appending the phrase "for my film!" to any thought related to one's day job (ex. "I have to go flip burgers-- for my film!") in order to remember what the priorities are if you are doing a job to survive while pursuing your passion. Another of their recommendations was to get a job that offers some kind of benefit towards your real work-- like for example, a filmmaker working in a local access station or a rental house might be able to take out good equipment for free for her own projects.

I don't know if this has made it overseas yet, but there's an informal program called Freecycle here where people basically offer stuff they can't use anymore to others for free, or request things they're looking for. That can help a LOT if you're patient! When our household TV broke, I put out an intention to get a new one, and within a couple of weeks an even bigger, perfectly functional set came up on Freecycle and I was able to claim it. Often you can even get groceries on there!

Craigslist also has a "free stuff" section, as well as a "barter" section.

You can sign on with a temp agency or scour the ads for one-time gigs that you take only when you really need to make a little cash. I made a couple hundred dollars one day standing in a horror convention in a gothy corset, handing out flyers. Not a bad deal at all, plus I got to go to the convention for free! For a writer this can be quite useful, too, because the variety of interesting experiences is great fodder for stories.

Joseph Campbell spent a few years where he did nothing but read all the classics, just because he thought it was a worthwhile pursuit (having not yet become the famed Joseph Campbell of the Hero's Journey); he lived in someone's cabin, if I remember correctly, and his friends willingly had him to dinner because he was such great company.

You can get REAL good at scavenging food when hunger is the alternative. My housemate and I once figured out that if you went to the right supermarket, you could make a round of all the free sample stations and have a decent meal. Friends who frequent restaurants might be enticed to take their leftovers home for you. Parents will almost always feed you or give you a care package (my mom still tries to give me food even though I haven't been a starving artist in years!) Gallery openings are great for free wine and occasionally a snack.

I think ultimately every situation is unique, though. It seems to me that it comes down to 1) choosing what *really* matters in your lifestyle, realizing that everything you keep is something you have to pay for in some way; 2) looking at your available resources; 3) applying some creativity to your planning; 4) getting the people you live with/who depend on you on your side and cheerleading your work, if at all possible. And I think the point is not so much refusing to do *any* work besides your Big Work, but rather quitting jobs that demand priority *over* the Big Work, and only taking jobs that make the Big Work possible in some way. I mean, if you CAN write your first novel at work, do you really need to quit that job so you can write at home and stress about money on top of it?

It seems like pride is a big obstacle to overcome with this limbo. We get so used to measuring our worth in dollar signs that it feels humiliating to sell possessions or to say "no" to restaurant dates we can't afford anymore or to accept a friend's hand-me-downs. I will say that in my experience, the joy of doing what you love really does compensate for a lot of that stuff. It can be hard not to succumb to feelings of shame, but on the other hand, it can feel pretty wonderfully creative and bohemian to discover new ways to be resourceful and make do with less.

[uberinquisitive]

Paul P. (impaul999) wrote a post about making the transition - turns out, he quit his job to pursue his passion. Then, 2 years later, he was almost bankrupt. So, he went back to work. But...he went back to work with a different mentality.

I feel really inspired by his post - it espouses a win-win situation (pay bills AND eventually get to your passion as a full-time career). It all boils down to self-trust and self-faith. As he puts it:

The shortest path towards doing what you love is not by pushing against what you hate and making it so horrible that it drives you to snap and make a giant dramatic leap towards what you love. The shortest path is by taking a step towards doing what you love, right now, no matter what you’re doing and having the faith and trust in yourself to know that you won’t stop until you’re 100% there.

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by DivaLion

Part of the "aha!" was taking some personality/career tests; what surprised me was not the results, but the pattern I noticed in my answers-- how often the things I ranked "dislike" were tasks I had done all my life to make a living!

No wonder I wasn't getting excited about the idea of following my own path...I was doing to myself what well-meaning parents do to so many kids: trying to "normalize" my passions into a more sensible type of work. Not a step forward, but a step sideways-- not much better at all. Julia Cameron in her books calls these "shadow" careers, where you do something that keeps you close to your love without actually being your love.

This really hit home for me. A lot of people, when I tell them I want to become a children's book writer, start to fidget nervously. Conversation with them in the past usually went like this:

Me: I'm going to write books for a living!
Other: But there's a lot of competition, you know... and even if you do get published, you might not make enough money.
Me: Stephen King and J.K. Rowling seems to be doing just fine.
Other: Yeah, but they are exceptions!
Me: And why can't I become an exception?
Other: Well... in theory it's possible I guess... but chances are so small... it will never work! Most books don't even get past the sludgepile in the first place!
Me: I won't know that unless I try, now will I? Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a novel to write.

Then when I meet them again about two months later:

Other: What's with the grin on your face?
Me: Oh, I had a good writing day today. 4000 words added to my novel, a new record! At this rate, I might even finish before the year is over!
Other: *blank stare* You're still working on that thing?
Me: Uh... yeah. *blink* books don't write themselves, you know.
Other: But... where do you find the time?
Me: I make the time every day, whether I feel like it or not. It's the only way I'll ever finish.
Other: "And then?"
Me: "Then I'll rewrite, edit, rewrite, edit, edit some more and send it to a publisher."

At this point, the other person gets nervous. For a small part because they don't want to see me get hurt if I happen to get rejected. But mostly (and they may not even be aware of this) because I'm closer to realizing my dream than they ever will be. This is when the alternatives start rolling in: do I really want to try and get rejected? It will never work. Odds are against me! Maybe I should try: editing, proofreading, post stories on my own website for free, find a job at a publisher, become the personal assistant of a successful writer, translate, and so on.

No, no, no, no! I don't want to step sideways! I don't want a shadow carreer! I don't want to 'normalize' my passion! I don't want to be a mindless drone, staying in the herd unnoticed and making sure I follow the script!

I am not, and will not become, a cowardly lion! Rules Are No Obstacles for Committed People

My problem is, that for a long time I believed that 'living the dream' was for special people and that us normal folks, should be content with a shadow carreer. Screw that: this is my time to fly.

EDIT: Just think I should add this: a lot of people, when I refuse to settle for a shadow carreer, suggest that I should still find a job in publishing, as this might improve my chances. I can see the logic behind this (having a shadow carreer is not that bad, as long as it is not the final station), but I have never felt comfortable with the idea. Today, I had an 'eureka!' moment and figured out why: getting a job at a publishing company, feels like begging for scraps. Other people are good enough that they can just send in their manusscripts and wait for the publisher to worship the very ground they walk on ( ), but since I can't possibly be just as talented as my competition, if not more, I will have to try and weasle my way in through the backdoor. There is no way I'm talented enough to get a publishers attention without serving them coffee every morning or sorting through their mail. Heck, I might as well give up now.

I will keep this option open, but I want to try it the 'normal' way first, rather than just telling myself I'm not good enough to get published without having to resort to infiltrating the enemy camp