PhotoReading Discount Returns for July (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

PhotoReading Discount Returns for July

[andreelerowes]

picayune, but: why do they censor the name lifshitz in their pdf booklet? if i had that last name, i'd be pretty miffed...

[Sam988]

I've never been a fan of photoreading. I don't buy the argument that our subconscious can "read" (or memorize) a whole page just looking at it.


The program has many good techniques to teach us to read faster and in a more efficient way, though, but the main part of it, the "photoreading" part, just looks like snakeoil to me.


I'm sorry for the bad marketing steve , i know that you and many other people got great results with it, but people need to know that this product's effectiveness is not a consensus, and is far from proven.

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Steve, how many books approximately have you photoread since 2006 ?

Also, do you remember them better than the books you have read in the traditional way?

[The Large Dude Scam]

Steve: Do you read at a speed of 60 000 words/minute as Paul Scheele advertised a few years ago? (at least i think he advertised that speed, but i might be wrong of course).

I read the following on speed-reading

'the maximum number of words a person can accurately read is about 300 a minute. "People who purport to read 10,000 words a minute are doing what we call skimming," she said.'

Still it is possible to read faster then that. The idiot savant Kim Peek "has the ability to read two pages simultaneously, one with each eye, with 98% retention."
- also skepdic.com

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by The Large Dude Scam

Still it is possible to read faster then that. The idiot savant Kim Peek "has the ability to read two pages simultaneously, one with each eye, with 98% retention."
- also skepdic.com

But he's the exception obviously.

[newmark]

Originally Posted by Sam988

I've never been a fan of photoreading. I don't buy the argument that our subconscious can "read" (or memorize) a whole page just looking at it.


The program has many good techniques to teach us to read faster and in a more efficient way, though, but the main part of it, the "photoreading" part, just looks like snakeoil to me.


I'm sorry for the bad marketing steve , i know that you and many other people got great results with it, but people need to know that this product's effectiveness is not a consensus, and is far from proven.

Sam; have you actually done the course? If so, what particular problems did you find with it?

[newmark]

Also, does anyone here know whether photo reading is useful when you are reading a good, well written book? One which you really do need to know quite well.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by newmark

Sam; have you actually done the course? If so, what particular problems did you find with it?

I did the course. I got excited by it in the beggining, got to "read" 3 books a day, and photoread only, just for practice, other 7 per day.

The 3 books i "read" with the technique, i thought that i was really understanding them, when in fact i was just getting the main concepts with the skimming techniques in the course, and linking these main concepts with what i already knew, giving me the impression that i was really learning a lot from it. And maybe i was learning a good deal about the books, but that was just because of the skimming techniques, which you can find anywhere, even free on the internet.

The concept of memorizing an entire page just by taking a one-second look at it, after doing only some exercises to increase our retention of information, looks crazier every time i think of it again.


Skimming a book can give you a good idea of what the book is about and it's main concepts, but reading it front to cover still gives much, much more information and insight, at least for me.


But hell, some people say that after they PR a book, it all starts "fitting together" and they intuitively know what's written in it, so great for them, who am i to give definite answers to whether this works or not .

I'm just portraying my experience; to me, it didn't work.

[JustBe]

Did not really work for me as well.

It seems a good tool for reading personal development books.

For technical books I am not convinced.

Perhaps I will do it again in future.

[ClareDragonfly]

Has anyone tried PhotoReading with fiction? I read far more novels than I do nonfiction books, but as an aspiring author, I don't read only for enjoyment--I read to learn from the books as well. It sounds like you probably wouldn't want to PhotoRead a novel every time, but maybe it would be a useful technique for retention and analysis after you've already slow-read the book?

[Technosmart]

Dr. Danielle S. McNamara tested the Photoreading courses in 1999 and wrote a report for the NASA (PDF here)

Here is the abstract. Don't miss the last paragraph :

The purpose of this project was to provide a preliminary analysis of a reading strategy called PhotoReading. PhotoReading is a technique developed by Paul Scheele that claims to increase reading rate to 25,000 words per minute (Scheele, 1993). PhotoReading itself involves entering a "relaxed state" and looking at, but not reading, each page of a text for a brief moment (about I to 2 seconds). While this technique has received attention in the popular press, there had been no objective examinations of the technique's validity.

To examine the effectiveness of PhotoReading, the principal investigator (i.e., trainee) participated in a PhotoReading workshop to learn the technique. Parallel versions of two standardized and three experimenter-created reading comprehension tests were administered to the trainee and an expert user of the PhotoReading technique to compare the use of normal reading strategies and the PhotoReading technique by both readers.

The results for all measures yielded no benefits of using the PhotoReading technique. The extremely rapid reading rates claimed by PhotoReaders were not observed; indeed, the reading rates were generally comparable to those for normal reading. Moreover, the PhotoReading expert generally showed an increase in reading time when using the PhotoReading technique in comparison to when using normal reading strategies to process text. This increase in reading time when PhotoReading was accompanied by a decrease in text comprehension.

[machoman]

Originally Posted by Sam988

I did the course. I got excited by it in the beggining, got to "read" 3 books a day, and photoread only, just for practice, other 7 per day.

The 3 books i "read" with the technique, i thought that i was really understanding them, when in fact i was just getting the main concepts with the skimming techniques in the course, and linking these main concepts with what i already knew, giving me the impression that i was really learning a lot from it. And maybe i was learning a good deal about the books, but that was just because of the skimming techniques, which you can find anywhere, even free on the internet.

The concept of memorizing an entire page just by taking a one-second look at it, after doing only some exercises to increase our retention of information, looks crazier every time i think of it again.


Skimming a book can give you a good idea of what the book is about and it's main concepts, but reading it front to cover still gives much, much more information and insight, at least for me.


But hell, some people say that after they PR a book, it all starts "fitting together" and they intuitively know what's written in it, so great for them, who am i to give definite answers to whether this works or not .

I'm just portraying my experience; to me, it didn't work.

Photo Reading is something that one use their Whole mind in order to process the text. After trying many speed reading course I feel that I could not find any drastic improvement in my reading abilities. Of course, I increased my reading speed upto 400-500 wpm from 200 wpm from these courses but Iam not satisfied by the results.I even tried eyeq which did some help but could not improve my reading speed.Atlast I tried this photoreading and though I did not get the results immediately as told in the website, I could read at the rate of 1000 wpm after finishing this course .Now, after 6 months of applying the methods of photoreading I could say this to anyone that THIS WORKS! .if you have finished this course,I suggest you apply the methods for as long as you can.

[Technosmart]

Well, it is curious that a NASA expert studied the subject seriously and stated that Photoreading was not efficient, and that some people say it is working very well, like Steve Pavlina and you machoman.

In the study, a Photoreading expert took differents tests with or without Photoreading and the results show no practical advantage in speed or comprehension.

I mean, i think NASA would not pass on a significant advance in the speed reading if it was really working, isn't it ?

Here is a quote of the conclusion about the fact that some people claim that Photoreading is effective :

Why do so many who practice it claim that PhotoReading is effective? One aspect of the PhotoReading technique is that it leaves the reader with a false sense of confidence. This was particularly evident with regards to the expert PhotoReader's comprehension rating for her
comprehension of the physiology textbook. After PhotoReading,she estimated her comprehension as very high,which it was not. She was unable to answer any of the open-ended questions,and answered the remaining questionswith poor accuracy.
As the trainee,I experienced this false feeling of confidence myself, particularly for the topic texts. After reading each of the texts, I estimated that my comprehension was as good as that for the texts read normally. For each text, after having PhotoRead the text, I read the text quickly using the rapid reading technique that I learned in the PhotoReading course. I then rapid read the text again - at that point believing that I was ready to take the comprehension test. This over-confidence clearly led me astray given the evidence from my low comprehension scores for these texts.

And here is how Dr. Danielle S. McNamara explain the mechanisms of this over-confidence :

What is the source of this over-confidence? There are two principle factors that may be responsible for this false sense of comprehension: previewing and self-hypnosis.

During previewing, the reader may read a wide variety of material in the text such as the table of contents, the index, first paragraphs of sections, tables, graphs, keywords, and so on. This process results in a relatively superficial understanding of the text. However, many details and isolated concepts may be understood and remembered from the text. Thus, previewing can result in a text-based level of comprehension (though not necessarily accurate). In addition, the concepts that are read during the preview phase are primed. That is, the exposure to the key words and phrases readies those concepts in the reader's mind for future use. When the reader returns after the incubation period to "rapid read" and "activate" the text, there may be a sense of deja-vue. This feeling of deja-vue is often interpreted by PhotoReaders as literally remembering - which can imply to the reader that the material had been learned during the PhotoReading phase. This priming may have an even larger impact if the reader has greater prior knowledge of the text. Priming will result in a spread of activation to related concepts in memory. If many related concepts are available to the reader in prior knowledge, then the previewing process will result in a greater feeling of understanding the text.

A second factor contributing to the feeling of understanding the text may emerge from the relaxation and self-hypnosis techniques that accompany the PhotoReading technique. That is, before each phase of PhotoReading, the reader relaxes. During this relaxation state, the reader makes selfstatement
such as "All that I PhotoRead makes a lasting impression on my inner mind and is available to me" (Scheele, p. 40). This inner speech reinforces the assumption that PhotoReading works.

Moreover, the reader has made a commitment to the success of the technique (to him or herself) and may be less willing or able to recognize its failure. Its failure would then be in conflict with the reader's selfacclaimed beliefs.

[wulph]

Originally Posted by Technosmart

Well, it is curious that a NASA expert studied the subject seriously and stated that Photoreading was not efficient,[...]

Is a study with two participants really valid? While I acknowledge that the course may well not have worked for Dr. McNamara, the quoted study seems flawed.

[Technosmart]

Sure, but it doesn't work only for Dr. McNamara but also for the Photoreading expert who was her teacher.
The teacher was a person deeply involved in photoreading - because she was teaching it - and i think she believed strongly that the method worked.

But the tests showed the opposite. So... If you are a real expert in a technique that allow to read really faster than average and boost your comprehension - or at least keep your comprehension good - it means you'll beat often, if not always, an other person unskilled if you take some speed and comprehension test against them.

No ?

I suggest that some people who are pro-photoreader took a test with a "normal" good reader on reading some materials and 1) mesuring the time to do the task by each participant and 2) pass a comprehension test.

I propose that we all took this test, wich mesure our reading speed as well as our comprehension, and is available in English and French, a cool thing for me because i'm French , and that we post here the results.

[ABlix]

Well darn, I came in here to make fun of Steve for advertising PhotoReading as "it's on autopilot now, so I take it for granted" (come on man, a better slogan would be "I am an autopilot now because I didn't take anything for granted when photo reading."

I say we fund a PhotoReading study. Do you think it wouldn't be credible at all if Learning Strategies agreed to supply free versions of the programs for the 20-50 person test?

In regards to the whether PhotoReading really works thing is .. well, it seems as if this is turning out to be quite a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy for both sides pointing out its flaws and the sides pointing out its strengths. I think it seems as if both sides converge and fall to a middle point of waiting for your weaknesses to come out a time of strength. Since it is through failure, that we can endure our challenges. Therefore, the logic of the professor saying
"Moreover, the reader has made a commitment to the success of the technique (to him or herself) and may be less willing or able to recognize its failure. Its failure would then be in conflict with the reader's selfacclaimed beliefs." is a bit complex and unnecessary, sort of like all this text.

I am sure the program is not perfect, but can we really deny that it doesn't help one learn at all based on a study that could perhaps have a bit of observational bias?

[sarah786]

Steve i am going to a university in a foreign university which does not have the best mailing system. is there anyway i could get an online course of photoreading or a download an ebook of it? I would not mind paying as I really think it would help me with my classes and the amount of time it could save me is fabulous. Please let me know if there are any alternatives to the options provided.

[Brendon Colby]

Wow there are some really interesting comments here. I never realized NASA did a study on Photoreading. This is very interesting. I think it brings up a few very good points. As usual with anything, buyer beware! I have several years of experience both with Learning Strategies and Photoreading, so I think I have some value to add to this discussion.

I'm no expert Photoreader but I know the system pretty well. I bought the book in 2001 with BIG hopes (inflated by their marketing...I was only 21...more on that below) and didn't do much with it after my hopes were crashed by reality. When Steve offered the first discount on the course, I bought it thinking "now I will use it!" I've gone through the course, some areas a few times, but since I really don't have a need to take in so much data I really don't practice it. My old "slow reading" habit is furiously strong because I really enjoy just sitting down and reading. I don't feel the need to blaze through a book when I'm enjoying it! I am very selective about what I read though, so that helps. I rarely HAVE to read anything I don't want to read.

My biggest issue with Learning Strategies' is their marketing, which has always put me off big time. People tend to get hung up on that 25,000 words per minute thing, which I believe is an incredibly inaccurate twisting of reality. What I think they're doing is taking the definition of "read" as we know it i.e. reading and comprehending the meaning of the words at the same time, and saying that a person using this system can "read" at 25K wpm. This isn't the case! They re-define the word "read" - technically, while Photoreading you are NOT reading and comprehending the way we were taught in school. What you are doing is going through a book in layers, building up comprehension - Photoreading is just one step of the "whole mind system"! You do not comprehend the material until after you go through several steps of the system. So technically, during the Photoreading step you turn the pages at "a page per second" - which is where I think they calculate 25K/wpm, but you definitely are NOT reading (i.e. reading with comprehension). You begin comprehending the materials after the Photoreading step, during "activation." I think it's a shame that they market it like they do. I see a lot of people get hung up on the marketing fluff and some that sadly throw out the entire system completely.

What I would suggest for anyone who is new to the system is to buy the book first. You can find it on amazon.com for $3 used. Read it with an open mind. Disregard their ridiculously twisted marketing fluff. Expect to have to learn new habits! This is REAL WORK - you don't just pick up the system and "blaze" through reading material in a day (I wish I had known this 8 years ago...). These are new study skills that you have to practice and use daily if you want maximum benefit. This isn't "slow reading" like we're all very used to.

Even though I don't practice the system daily, there are quite a few concepts I learned from the course that I use quite a bit:

• Preparing - this is step one in the system. This is just a basic relaxation technique that I've been doing prior to a learning event. Relaxing helps me focus and work more efficiently, which just seems like common sense to me!
• Previewing - I always preview a book before I buy it (this is step two in the system). This is how I filter out materials that will be of little value to me.
• "Photofocus" - i.e. a soft gaze - this isn't a new concept. I sometimes use this just to scan a huge bookshelf to find something quickly, or when I'm skimming material and I need to find a keyword.
• Mindmapping - a new way to take notes. Again, not a new concept (see Tony Buzan).

Again, I wholeheartedly recommend buying the book first. The whole system is presented in the book. The course is really just to help people who think they need it beyond what is presented in the book.

[ClareDragonfly]

Heh. I was sitting here thinking about Photoreading and decided to ask for a sign to tell me whether I should try it or not. I expected the sign to come later, maybe in a dream or something. I had the big Photoreading thread open at the time (I think it's in the Personal Effectiveness forum). After making the request, I went back to the thread and started reading. I read, "If you can't afford the whole system, just get the book." OK, I guess that's what I'm going to do! And then I came here and read Brendon's post, which is saying the same thing. Thanks, Brendon! I'm actually 21 myself and hopefully with your advice (as well as all the other advice on this forum) I won't make the same mistakes

Now the question is... what do I say to my mom when the package arrives and she asks what happened to my vow not to acquire any new books until I had finished the ones I own and haven't read?

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by ClareDragonfly

Now the question is... what do I say to my mom when the package arrives and she asks what happened to my vow not to acquire any new books until I had finished the ones I own and haven't read?

Hah this is a problem that every mother would like to have i guess. Better than the 90% of sons who don't care about reading books

[Ron Stoppable]

Originally Posted by ClareDragonfly

what do I say to my mom when the package arrives and she asks what happened to my vow not to acquire any new books until I had finished the ones I own and haven't read?

Hey Clare

Flick through your existing unread books as soon as possible. If you still don't want to read through them, then give them away to charity shops and get what you really want to immerse yourself in.

[ClareDragonfly]

Originally Posted by sam988

Hah this is a problem that every mother would like to have i guess. Better than the 90% of sons who don't care about reading books

What about daughters? I am a girl you know

Originally Posted by Ron Stoppable

Hey Clare

Flick through your existing unread books as soon as possible. If you still don't want to read through them, then give them away to charity shops and get what you really want to immerse yourself in.

Oh, that's not the problem at all! The problem is that I have SO MANY books. It's hard for me to resist buying books I want to read, and for the past four years I've been in college, so I haven't had much time to read for pleasure. I want to read all these books, it's just going to take me a while!

And it's a vow to myself anyway. I just don't want my mom to make this face:

[Brendon Colby]

Originally Posted by ClareDragonfly

Oh, that's not the problem at all! The problem is that I have SO MANY books. It's hard for me to resist buying books I want to read, and for the past four years I've been in college, so I haven't had much time to read for pleasure. I want to read all these books, it's just going to take me a while!

I have the same situation. Every time I go to a book store, I seem to come home with more books. I have a hard time saying no to myself, esp. when Barnes and Noble has a special deal on classics. I haven't read much fiction, but I fully intend to.

Incidentally, I used the suggestion out of the Photoreading book on reading novels to start reading Kafka's "The Metamorphosis." You can just calmly explain to your mother that this "one last book" will help you with the others! I don't think you're going to be able to avoid , however.

[seeker5]

How much extra time is required upfront to learn to Photoread properly so that it's better then normal reading? Are we talking 5 hours, 20 hours, 75 hours?

[Brendon Colby]

Originally Posted by seeker5

How much extra time is required upfront to learn to Photoread properly so that it's better then normal reading? Are we talking 5 hours, 20 hours, 75 hours?

That would be hard to quantify because it's so dependent on the person. I think the skills are pretty easy to grasp. People seem to struggle the most with consistent practice and limiting beliefs. I say experiment with the system and see for yourself.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Brendon Colby

That would be hard to quantify because it's so dependent on the person. I think the skills are pretty easy to grasp. People seem to struggle the most with consistent practice and limiting beliefs. I say experiment with the system and see for yourself.

Thanks. I don't have the program, and I was going to order it but apparently missed the discount by a day, so I figured I'd see how much time investment I'd have to put into it.

[Brendon Colby]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Thanks. I don't have the program, and I was going to order it but apparently missed the discount by a day, so I figured I'd see how much time investment I'd have to put into it.

As I said above, just grab the book - it's $3 on Amazon used.