Insights on darkwork

[Theo77]

Hello everybody,

I haven't posted here in a few months. Back when I was posting here, I was doing a "30 day Dark worker trial" I just thought I would share some of my insights.

I have decided that I don't want to polarize this way. I feel that I got far enough to understand what all it entails. I agree with Steve Pavlina's posts about the subject for the most part. But I would just say that they are at an introductory level, kind of like "cliff notes." To get deeper you kind of have to look into it on your own. But in principle I think he has it mostly right.

My impression though is that probably nobody that posts regularly on this form is actually a polarized darkworker. I don't think this forum would appeal to them. I mean what is the purpose here? To help each other and have a sense of an online community?

That's not darkworking. Probably the posters here that think they are darkworkers are integrating their "shadow." Which is a good thing to do. Because otherwise you project your shadow onto others.

But onto darkworking -these are my insights into what it actually involves.

The first thing you have to do to polarize as a darkworker is close your heart chakra. Your heart chakra is an energy vortex that connects you to the Love that permeates all of creation. This is the love of God, or call it the "Great Spirit," "the One" the One, whatever.

When you shut off your heart chakra you are still connected to this Love that permeates eveything, God still loves you, but you can no longer feel it. Its no longer part of your reality.

So you feel really lonely when you do this. That is your negative Karma you incur for taking this spiritual "short cut" to growth. It is a shortcut. Because you no longer have to achieve balance of your heart chakra and other chakras. Also your heart chakras connect you to other people's hearts. Growing spiritually as a light worker involves harmonizing with other people and living things. This is how empathy works.

Dark workers block all this out this out.

So what does love mean for a Dark worker? Don't Darkworker's love themselves as Steve has said? Yes and no.

The love of self as a darkworker is not through the heart chakra but through the ego. Now, if you study much Eastern religion, you find out that the ego is actually a construct. Its an illusion. Its not the real you. Its a delusion.

But here is why polarized darkworkers are more highly conscious: Everyone has an ego. Everyone is a bit deluded. Darkworkers have made a choice to go with the ego and become dedicated to growing this way. Most people are simply confused about it. But ultimately darkworking is a dead end. But initially its a short cut to growth because you quickly get ahead of most people on the palent that are unpolarized.

Now here is the another major drawback to darkworking. There is a negative spiritual hierarchy. You can't just free lance as a darkworker. You might be motivated by selfishness at first and think Lightwork is slavery because its about serving others, but as soon as you polarize, you get sucked into the negative spiritual hierarchy.

Guess where you fit in? Do you think you will be fitted into it ahead of advanced entities that have been playing this game for millenia? No.

You start at the bottom. So your freedom is actually more limited as a dark worker. You have cut yourself off from the awareness of the love of God and the organizing "force" that takes over is really the strength of the ego of the being at the pinacle of the Spiritual hierarchy. So as a darkworker your life purpose is all about fulfilling the ego fantasy of another. Call him Lucifer.

So how do you work your way up the hierarchy?

Basically through a form of spiritual vampirism. That is how you advance. You weave a web of lies and trap the consciousness of unpolarized people and also you recruit new darkworkers.

I have limited time to spend on line. I am willing to discuss this further, expound on details. But I am 100% convinced of the basics of how this works.

I also would say that subjective reality fits in with darkworking rather than light working. but thats another topic.

[Theo77]

Another quick thing to add:

Yes Darkworkers are highly conscious and from a really highly advanced perspective, there is no polarity only Unity, so darkworkers aren't evil.

But polarity exists at this level we are at now here on Earth in the third density. So from the perspective of normal human beings, yes its evil.

[Sam988]

First, i also have been into DW for more than a year now, ever since Steve wrote the "For Love of Evil" article. And yes the concept of polarity can be quite complex and i believe that it is whatever each person sees it as, because each person must use it the way she thinks that it will best benefit her.

Now to the actual post. It's going to be a bit of a mess because i'm going to make random points, won't bother with quotes.


Why i post around here? It's mentally challenging, and i love good discussions. We all benefit from posting, so making a post is not about "giving away" only. I certainly wouldn't post anymore if i got no benefit whatsoever.

Well you approached the darkworking choice from a spiritual POV, but i prefer to view it as a more practical thing, ignoring all the spiritual stuff, that i don't even believe in.


As for not feeling empathy for others, i REALLY think that a lot of it comes from birth, meaning the person can't just "turn empathy off", although it may be possible for a while but the person will eventually break. More rational people tend to feel less empathy, more emotional/feeling people tend to feel more empathy. All comes from birth, although it might be possible to change it if the person goes through some very heavy stuff through her life.
I have always been in the "less empathy" part, so DW reasonated really easy with me.


I'm sure you've heard of the MBTI typology. I think that most people who are "Feelers" will be better off with lightworking while most "Thinking" people could very well adapt with DW.


Here's an MBTI test, i think it's the best on the net: Free Jung Personality Test

Here's a list of all MBTI types. TypeLogic Home Page


So basically i think that all Feelers (ESFJ, ISFJ, INFJ, ENFJ, INFP, ENFP, ESFP, ISFP) are more inclined to LW. And the Thinkers (ESTJ, ISTJ, ESTP, ISFP, ENTJ, INTJ, ENTP, INTP) are more inclined to DW. Of course this is not the rule, just a tendency to do better at DW/LW, if the proper types chose to polarize.


One more thing i would like to add since i've already gotten into it, i think that the NTs "Intuitive Thinkers" ("Rationals" - ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ) types are the most prone to DW better.

[Theo77]

Well, Its a lot deeper than Myer's briggs typology. But in terms of inherent tendencies, you may have a point.

I would say Darkworkers tend toward being left brained and analytical, but that is not to say that left brained people are darkworkers. But being "in your head" like a typical INTP does tend to cut you off from your emotions.

So if an INTP or INTJ decided to polarize as a darkworker it would possibly be easier for them than say an ENFP. I don't know if the "feeling" aspect is "touch feely" though.

But being introverted and analytical is not a "dark" characteristic in my opinion. Many highly Machiavellian trait people are extroverts.

If you are intelligent there is probably more of a tendency to be "intellectual" in orientation. If you are a predatory type person, you have better success if you are more intelligent than your prey. So probably a Thinker would have more advantages in being a darkworker. Because darkworkers have to live by their wits in a power game.

But feeling through the heart chakra is a type of intelligence. Its not just sentimental warm fuzzy stuff. Its a way to "Feel the truth" and therefore be able to trust and thus relax and be able to use your natural abilities more effectively. You produce fewer stress hormones and therefore your intellectual capacities function more efficiently.

If your heart chakra is engaged, you don't rely on "blind faith" because you actually connect with the divine through your physical body. This is something Darkworkers don't have access to. (by their own choice)

[Theo77]

If anything, I think the tendency that lends itself to darkworking, is a tendency toward external control. Wanting to control others.

I also think Creativity lends itself more toward light work.

This may sound ironic because a lot of creative types like artists and muscicians are often seen as rebels. But that's only because the Establishment is controlled by Dark workers.

In any creative industry the Darkworkers represent the money interests that have a parasitic relationship with the creative people that actually invent or create things.

Like a musician is controlled by a manager that manages a bunch of other singers and record company execs that don't create anything.

Engineers mostly work for big corporations that own the patents.

Darkworkers create bottlenecks, monopolies, things like that. Centralized command and control structures.

[Sam988]

I think that our opinions are mostly the same (the difference being that i don't care about the spiritual side) so i have nothing further to add for now, good posts.

[Theo77]

From what I have read it seems like you do understand what a dark worker is. So I take it back that "probably no one here is a dark worker."

All I know is that I didn't totally understand it when I was doing my trial and that reading some posts here it seems like there is a lot of Confusion, but I mostly agree with Steve Pavlina's posts on it.

I think if a materialistic person( as in a philosophical position) were a dark worker they wouldn't get into the spiritual side, but they could still be polarized.

I think there are Dark workers in to esoteric and mataphysical stuff, though.

[Theo77]

A couple quick things I disagree with:

The vegan analogies. I don't think veganism is associated neccesarily with light work and meat eating with darkwork.

I mean, yeah, Factory farms suck. I think we can all agree with that. But intensive agriculture has wreaked a lot of havoc on this planet as well. Also agricultural societies often participated in genocidal warfare against more peaceful hunter gatherer societies throughout history.

There can be a spiritual approach to hunting game animals. Native American hunters believed that success in hunting was a result of the spirit of the animal offering itself to the hunter. Life and death is a cycle.

Agricultural societies also lend themselves more to systems of centralized command and control. Cereal Grains can be stored at a central location by a hierarchy and doled out to the people to keep them dependant. That has been the historic use for it. It provides more calories per acre than hunting and allows larger standing armies.

Hunting societies have historically been more egalitarian. The food is spread all over the surrounding are and hard to monopolize. Its a life based on an economy of abundance.

[Theo77]

The other thing, is that the two aren't equivalent. I don't believe that Darkworkers can ultimately rise in levels of consciousness as high as lightworkers. They eventually reach a dead end and need to polarize to the light to go any higher. The ego delusion only takes you so far.

These might be seen as unfair, because in a way its a good short cut to take. Because you can rise faster as a Darkworker and then switch.

But you actually don't start from the bottom again.

The thing is God, or "the One" doesn't go by an "eye for an eye" mindset.

The negative Karma is not a "payback" awaiting Darkworkers. It starts from the get go. The negative Karma is cutting yourself off from experiencing Love.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I think, Theo, you are very mistaken as to what a Darkworker actually is. Really you've just described a low-consciousness person. Someone who uses the ego? What nonsense. A Darkworker doesn't use the ego, he transcends it just as much as a Lightworker, its not a dead end and it certainly doesn't come across as evil.

Honestly...you sound like an evangelist denouncing other religions as evil and depraved.

[Theo77]

Well one of us is obviously confused. Because what I have read of your comments here I totally disagree with you.

But I don't know if we have opposite opinions because I can't make head nor tails of anything you say. You don't ever seem to explain what you think Darkworking is. You seem to simply disagree with anyone who presents it in a negative context.

But anyway, No point in debating you in particular. I feel I have learned all I need to know in order to make decision to polarize.

If you want to think dark working is all about love and sunshine go right ahead.

[ProjectX]

Imo Darkworkers show their appreciation for life by helping themselves.
Lightworkers show appreciation by helping others.

30-Day-Trial of Darkworking. Join Me!!!

[Theo77]

Well if you sep back a little bit, Darkworkers are pawns. They actually build control networks, for entities more powerful then themselves.

You might think its all hedonistic and "carving your own path" but really its not.

There are rewards, but there is a higher intelligence behind darkwork beyond the individual.

I think One obstacle people have in understanding this is from organized religion, which presents it self as light working but many aspects of it are about control.

So if you rebel against that control structure, you may conclude you have gone over to the dark side. Not neccesarily true. God is actually really tolerant of all kinds of things, That's why God allows dark workers to exist.

Its a matter of free will.

[Theo77]

Helping yourself vs. helping others is about balance. Everyone needs to be assertive and establish boundaries and not be a martyr.

Dark work is about using other people. Being self sufficient is not the same as using other people.

If yu think using other people is bad. You probably don't really want to be a dark worker.

A dark worker would say that most people are weak and need to be taken advantage of because they can't take care of themselves.

Lightworking is about empowering people to be strong and fulfill their potential.

That's pretty much all I have to say. This thread is my effort to show what polarizing to the dark side looks like a little further down the path, than just a 30 day trial. Use your own discernment and come to your own conclusion.

[ProjectX]

Originally Posted by Theo77

Well if you sep back a little bit, Darkworkers are pawns. They actually build control networks, for entities more powerful then themselves.

You might think its all hedonistic and "carving your own path" but really its not.

There are rewards, but there is a higher intelligence behind darkwork beyond the individual.

I think One obstacle people have in understanding this is from organized religion, which presents it self as light working but many aspects of it are about control.

So if you rebel against that control structure, you may conclude you have gone over to the dark side. Not neccesarily true. God is actually really tolerant of all kinds of things, That's why God allows dark workers to exist.

Its a matter of free will.

You can say the darkworker control structure is hierarchical, whilst a lightworker is more circular.


Critical Thinking 101 :: Duality | Genius Types

[Zwynd]

Originally Posted by Theo77

Hello everybody,

My impression though is that probably nobody that posts regularly on this form is actually a polarized darkworker. I don't think this forum would appeal to them. I mean what is the purpose here? To help each other and have a sense of an online community?

Or register, soak up as much information as you can, compare it with what you already know, fine tune, move on. Rinse/Repeat next forum.

That's not darkworking. Probably the posters here that think they are darkworkers are integrating their "shadow." Which is a good thing to do. Because otherwise you project your shadow onto others.

I know I'm new here and perhaps may not 'understand' the proper definition of a Darkworker but I don't think Steve has the right idea. That or I'm thinking something entirely different from the definition of Darkworker and trying to compare the two as if they could match.

But onto darkworking -these are my insights into what it actually involves.

The first thing you have to do to polarize as a darkworker is close your heart chakra. Your heart chakra is an energy vortex that connects you to the Love that permeates all of creation. This is the love of God, or call it the "Great Spirit," "the One" the One, whatever.

Wouldn't you want to open it more? After all, if you're going to focus on yourself a lot and want to be bigger, better, and more powerful then you better have a LOT of love ready for yourself.

When you shut off your heart chakra you are still connected to this Love that permeates eveything, God still loves you, but you can no longer feel it. Its no longer part of your reality.

I could relate to that though I don't think something 'out there' is reaching towards me sending loving energies.

I don't really feel a sense of love that I -think- others do, either. I can maybe recall having the feeling over my lifetime no more times than the fingers on my hands. Granted, I'm still quite young; only just starting into 2/3 of my life expectancy.

So you feel really lonely when you do this. That is your negative Karma you incur for taking this spiritual "short cut" to growth. It is a shortcut. Because you no longer have to achieve balance of your heart chakra and other chakras. Also your heart chakras connect you to other people's hearts. Growing spiritually as a light worker involves harmonizing with other people and living things. This is how empathy works.

I stopped believing/fearing in Karma/punishment one day and things suddenly stopped 'going to hell' for me. I still don't love a lot of people or have a real concern for their well being, and yet I don't feel lonely. I really must be thinking of something other than a Light/Darkworker.

Dark workers block all this out this out.

So what does love mean for a Dark worker? Don't Darkworker's love themselves as Steve has said? Yes and no.

The love of self as a darkworker is not through the heart chakra but through the ego. Now, if you study much Eastern religion, you find out that the ego is actually a construct. Its an illusion. Its not the real you. Its a delusion.

But here is why polarized darkworkers are more highly conscious: Everyone has an ego. Everyone is a bit deluded. Darkworkers have made a choice to go with the ego and become dedicated to growing this way. Most people are simply confused about it. But ultimately darkworking is a dead end. But initially its a short cut to growth because you quickly get ahead of most people on the palent that are unpolarized.

This is why I don't agree Steve's label of a Darkworker.

Lightworkers immerse themselves in the world, seeing it as a true reality but a Darkworker wouldn't do so. In fact, they'd do their best to keep their mind out of that 'reality' and into their own inner one. With that said, a perfect Darkworker wouldn't be caught up in fears, ego or anything else just as a very good Lucid Dreamer wouldn't be caught up in a funky dreamworld...unless they wanted to.

Now here is the another major drawback to darkworking. There is a negative spiritual hierarchy. You can't just free lance as a darkworker. You might be motivated by selfishness at first and think Lightwork is slavery because its about serving others, but as soon as you polarize, you get sucked into the negative spiritual hierarchy.

Guess where you fit in? Do you think you will be fitted into it ahead of advanced entities that have been playing this game for millenia? No.

You start at the bottom. So your freedom is actually more limited as a dark worker. You have cut yourself off from the awareness of the love of God and the organizing "force" that takes over is really the strength of the ego of the being at the pinacle of the Spiritual hierarchy. So as a darkworker your life purpose is all about fulfilling the ego fantasy of another. Call him Lucifer.

This is starting to sound like an Ad&d game... Start as a Larvae or Dretch, move up to Vrock for a few millennium all the while plotting to backstab a few co-workers for the chance to become a Balor?

How about instead removing the word 'Light' and 'Dark but instead replace them with Outer and Inner. Get rid of good and evil definitions. They're useless anyway; They are just human concepts that imo really don't have much power at the 'higher' levels like you're referring to.

So then, the Outer worker sees that to grow he or she must help others. By helping others follow their dreams/ambitions, they will cause the world to flourish with beauty (ideas, creativity, etc..)

The Inner worker sees that to grow he or she must help themselves. By being an example of self-motivation, others will follow suit by building up their own inner worlds which in turn spreads like a virus.

So how do you work your way up the hierarchy?

By not seeing a hierarchy I have put myself past it and do not need to struggle against something I do not believe in.

Here's an experiment for you. Try removing as many beliefs as you can for one week. Seriously try it. Think of everything as meaningless; religion, culture, media, etc. You'll be amazed with how free you begin to feel after the first couple days.

Some may feel a little depressed [and that's their habits or 'ego' whining] but hey, it's only one week and if their beliefs/habits were really that important to their well-being then they'd hop back into them after the week was over...assuming they would still be alive or the same person by then.

Basically through a form of spiritual vampirism. That is how you advance. You weave a web of lies and trap the consciousness of unpolarized people and also you recruit new Darkworkers.

The majority of 'psychic vampires' I've met over the years could indeed be a perfect example of Steve's Darkworker except that they aren't really dissimilar to a mundane, abusive person.

Eg, the only difference between them and an abusive person who undermines and yells at another is that the 'vampire' waves their hands about [or whatever] going "OOoooOOoh I'm going to make you so stressed you feel exhausted."

One is using emotional blackmail, the other is potentially and silently messing up with someone's 'aura.'

I have limited time to spend on line. I am willing to discuss this further, expound on details. But I am 100% convinced of the basics of how this works.

I also would say that subjective reality fits in with darkworking rather than light working. but thats another topic.

I just don't really buy into this Darkworking concept. It seems like another label to make people feel 'better' or justified for the "crap in the world." Imo, both definitions of Light/Dark are similar only that one sounds and acts 'proper' in the spotlight while the other is "just plain cool" and looks all 'villainous'. At least, this is what I've picked up on Steve's blog and the impressions by some people in these forums.

[lifeforce]

Theo77, I admire what you did. No doubt it takes some heavy balls to polarize.

You paint a bad picture of darkworkers. You paint the picture that views a darkworker as someone who feels worse then unpolarized people. Yet, lightworkers like steve and erin say they'd rather be a darkworker than an unolarized person. And they say a darkworker feels very connected and very good about himself. Energetic, enthusiastic, ambitious, powerfull... But you're saying a darkworker feels worse than unpolarized people.

Now.. are you abseloutly SHURE that you went about it the right way? I mean... I've never read anything about closing your heart chacra to polarize as a darkworker. Not even darkworkers themselves who has polarized a long time ago. Do you feel that this shortcut was a bad choise? Do you feel the massive inflow was to big compared to your level of concsioussness? I read from Asmonday, creator of darkworkers.com , that if you do these kinds of exersizes to early in your development, the negative karma is too much to handle. Do you think this might have happened t you? Sort of like an inflow energy overload that fried your circuits?

I think that if a person polarizes too quickly and generates too much inflow or outflow, it'd turn out to be a bad experience. Things happen too fast to make smart choices. Some things should be done over time to learn by trial and error and experience. To find out what the smart thing to do is.

Alot of things suck in the beginning. Quitting coffe, becomming an early riser, learning t be good with women, sales, loosing weight, changing eating habits. It all pretty much sucks in the beginning. However, though it out for a while, and you reap the rewards when harvest season comes. Do things that are comfortable all the time, and you'll never really do anything worth mentioning.

Im not saying anything about good or evil, rght and wrong. Some things are just one of those things and somethings just are the way they are. Did anyone get any of that?

[Zwynd]

Originally Posted by lifeforce

Now.. are you abseloutly SHURE that you went about it the right way? I mean... I've never read anything about closing your heart chacra to polarize as a darkworker. Not even darkworkers themselves who has polarized a long time ago. Do you feel that this shortcut was a bad choise? Do you feel the massive inflow was to big compared to your level of concsioussness? I read from Asmonday, creator of darkworkers.com , that if you do these kinds of exersizes to early in your development, the negative karma is too much to handle. Do you think this might have happened t you? Sort of like an inflow energy overload that fried your circuits?

Interesting, short of Steve's site I had never heard of Darkworkers before. I gave a quick look over the description there and it appears to be a bit more in line with what I'm thinking about.

I still dislike the term 'Dark' but he used it more as a spelunking term which is a lot more accurate, imo, than the stereotypical dark = evil.

[lifeforce]

Btw, how do you clogg a chacra? I thought you could only cleanse it. Du you use a tequnike or do you just stop cleaning it? I have never cleaned my chakras before, so theyre probobly clogged allready.

[Zwynd]

Originally Posted by lifeforce

Btw, how do you clogg a chacra? I thought you could only cleanse it. Du you use a tequnike or do you just stop cleaning it? I have never cleaned my chakras before, so theyre probobly clogged allready.

Imo, the quickest way is to ignore or de-worth its value. As a Darkworker I'd think that would be terribly foolish to limit one's self this way.

No love of supporting others first is fine but absolutely no love of self means no self worth or effort. In such a case you might as well just slit your wrists now as you're going to be worse off than the average Joe is in their 'mundane' lives.

(This may double post, forum seems a bit buggy right now)

[Sam988]

Theo77 i'm really a layman in chakras and all this stuff but do you know some exercises to close the heart chakra? I don't really believe in the more spiritual side but hell trying different things can't hurt.

Originally Posted by Zwynd

Interesting, short of Steve's site I had never heard of Darkworkers before. I gave a quick look over the description there and it appears to be a bit more in line with what I'm thinking about.

I still dislike the term 'Dark' but he used it more as a spelunking term which is a lot more accurate, imo, than the stereotypical dark = evil.

I think that "Dark" matches perfectly the term Darkworker. I think that if you don't like the term "dark" labeled to you, you're deep inside too "good" and "empathic" to handle darkworking.

Darkworking is about the apex of self-centeredness, in other words, selfishness. DWs have little regard for anyone else's needs, in comparison to their own's. In other words, is a very "dark" place to be in, when seen by the point of view of a person that doesn't match the profile of a possible DW and therefore doesn't understand how someone can live at that level.

I think that very few people can really handle being DWs. I would guess its less than 5% of the population. The person has to have low levels of empathy for others (otherwise it will be impossible to keep being selfish and the person will eventually say that it makes him unfilfilled or lonely or something else), a lot of self centeredness, and be smart enough to not do BS like losing control, and then doing stupid things, and then being careless enough to get caught, and then go to jail.


Of course this is all my current opinion (which has changed over time) on DW based on my experience. People will never agree on the "right" definition of DW/LW because there simply isn't one. People think differently and have had different experiences so it means one thing to each person.

[Calimero]

Originally Posted by Sam988

I think that "Dark" matches perfectly the term Darkworker. I think that if you don't like the term "dark" labeled to you, you're deep inside too "good" and "empathic" to handle darkworking.

Darkworking is about the apex of self-centeredness, in other words, selfishness. DWs have little regard for anyone else's needs, in comparison to their own's. In other words, is a very "dark" place to be in, when seen by the point of view of a person that doesn't match the profile of a possible DW and therefore doesn't understand how someone can live at that level.

I think that very few people can really handle being DWs. I would guess its less than 5% of the population. The person has to have low levels of empathy for others (otherwise it will be impossible to keep being selfish and the person will eventually say that it makes him unfilfilled or lonely or something else), a lot of self centeredness, and be smart enough to not do BS like losing control, and then doing stupid things, and then being careless enough to get caught, and then go to jail.

When I read your post than a darkworker is actually what is more known under the name of a psychopathic personality.
Many psychopaths don't end up in jail and they are certainly not all serial killers.
We find psychopaths all over in society but today many of of them made it to CEO of a company.
A lot of psychopaths for as far as research found out till today, didn't choose to be or become like that at all. They are born like that and it seems that there is a malfunction in their brain. Up till today they can't cure the malfunction in their brain.
Many "born" psychopaths know or are aware that they are different from other people. To be accepted by other people they develop great skills in acting emotions. They observe how other people their gestures, moves, poses, expressions on faces to imitate them very accurate even when they don't feel the emotion that evokes those to other people.
When they look into the brain of a psychopath they don't see the same area active that is connected with emotions when they see something sad or something that could activate empathy.
Now as a part of them knows that they are different they do anything to hide it, but it seems that their huge and enormous fear for not being accepted by the rest of society is that high that they act very selfish in anything. Even when they are not or never rejected they do act selfish egoistic just in case.
Another way to prevent that other people would ever be able to isolate them, is to manipulate and compromise people around them.
Telling lies and abuse trust is very common.

Now from Steve blogs it seems that to be a darkworker is something that you choose for, not something that you are born like.

But the description of darkworker is so close to that of psychopaths....and it seems that many of them never had the choice even when they want to become lighworker....if it were a choice, they can't because something is wrong in the brain.

Some people are not born psychopath but turn into one because of the use of drugs. But they are not sure about it if the drug use is the cause or just an extra trigger to their selfishness and kicks they are looking for and egoistic gain and greed.

The thing with psychopaths is that they are hard to recognize if you are not a prof.
Many people can't distinguish a psychopath from a leader or a guide.
And that is the main reason why the can climb fast to the top if they want to.
But it is not a choice they make to be like that and it is often not even a real goal that they have since childhood, as they never set goals on long terms.

[Sam988]

Calimero, exactly!


Look at this link, it's where i got many of my conclusions from:

Some apparent advantages of subclinical psychopathy


Again, i'm going to throw random points here, not much structure.


I came to the conclusions of my post above by reading about socially functioning "psychopaths" (subclinical psycopathy, a lesser form of psychopathy). I don't think psychopaths have any disease or malfunction, their brains just function differently. It is estimated that about 3% of all males and 1% of all females are subclinical psychopaths.

These are natural DWs, 100% polarized. It's not big news that many of them get to reach high places in society, mainly inside politics, law, and business (if you take a closer look into our society's leaders, you will spot many psychos. Donald Trump is the first case that comes to mind).

Of course they have to be careful because psychopaths' tendency is to do bad things with little regard for the consequences, which makes them have great potential to reach the top through whatever means necessary yet they may be insoncsequential. But most psychopaths are intelligent enough not to do anything stupid.

What i need to emphasize here, is that the name psychopath has been so demonized that it doesn't do justice to them, at least not to subclinical psychos. They are cold, manipulative, and don't care for others, but they're not the chainsaw serial killer (at least the vast majority of them, as some of them are more serious cases and are dumber to go into that). "Psycho" should be seen as just a pesonality type, although not with this name.



Now what are these advantages that they posses? First, we need to understand that their brains is wired in a way that gives them virtually no empathy, and they mostly don't feel most emotions, which makes them supernaturally cool in any situation, free of any anxiety that normal people would feel in social situations, which gives their personalities a lot of charm and charisma. They are emotionally stable, which means that they always know what they want and plan how to get there, and don't let emotions get in their way. They can lie with no regret at all, making them masterful liers. We can't deny that in today's society, this comes in very handy, be it for a politician, salesman, businessman, and virtually all other areas.

They can make people feel empathy for them, because, although they don't have many emotions, they can pretend as they have, and at the right moments, so the other person really falls for them and trusts them. People who deal with psychos will never suspect that.

Psychopaths also have immense egos and a self concept, and most of them are very narcissistic? This also fits perfectly the profile of darkworking, a love of self bigger than anything else.

Finally, i think that psychos have one fatal flaw: They enjoy making others suffer. This will, most of the times, backfire at them and they will suffer major setbacks, maybe even being killed by an angry person who had his life turned hell by the psycho. If they can control this one characteristic of them, they'll be much more capable of long term success than the average person.



I think we can all choose to become DWs, but the majority of us won't be able to function 100% at this level.

[Calimero]

Originally Posted by Sam988

Calimero, exactly!


Look at this link, it's where i got many of my conclusions from:

Some apparent advantages of subclinical psychopathy


Again, i'm going to throw random points here, not much structure.


I came to the conclusions of my post above by reading about socially functioning "psychopaths" (subclinical psycopathy, a lesser form of psychopathy). I don't think psychopaths have any disease or malfunction, their brains just function differently. It is estimated that about 3% of all males and 1% of all females are subclinical psychopaths.

These are natural DWs, 100% polarized. It's not big news that many of them get to reach high places in society, mainly inside politics, law, and business (if you take a closer look into our society's leaders, you will spot many psychos. Donald Trump is the first case that comes to mind).

Of course they have to be careful because psychopaths' tendency is to do bad things with little regard for the consequences, which makes them have great potential to reach the top through whatever means necessary yet they may be insoncsequential. But most psychopaths are intelligent enough not to do anything stupid.

What i need to emphasize here, is that the name psychopath has been so demonized that it doesn't do justice to them, at least not to subclinical psychos. They are cold, manipulative, and don't care for others, but they're not the chainsaw serial killer (at least the vast majority of them, as some of them are more serious cases and are dumber to go into that). "Psycho" should be seen as just a pesonality type, although not with this name.



Now what are these advantages that they posses? First, we need to understand that their brains is wired in a way that gives them virtually no empathy, and they mostly don't feel most emotions, which makes them supernaturally cool in any situation, free of any anxiety that normal people would feel in social situations, which gives their personalities a lot of charm and charisma. They are emotionally stable, which means that they always know what they want and plan how to get there, and don't let emotions get in their way. They can lie with no regret at all, making them masterful liers. We can't deny that in today's society, this comes in very handy, be it for a politician, salesman, businessman, and virtually all other areas.

They can make people feel empathy for them, because, although they don't have many emotions, they can pretend as they have, and at the right moments, so the other person really falls for them and trusts them. People who deal with psychos will never suspect that.

Psychopaths also have immense egos and a self concept, and most of them are very narcissistic? This also fits perfectly the profile of darkworking, a love of self bigger than anything else.

Finally, i think that psychos have one fatal flaw: They enjoy making others suffer. This will, most of the times, backfire at them and they will suffer major setbacks, maybe even being killed by an angry person who had his life turned hell by the psycho. If they can control this one characteristic of them, they'll be much more capable of long term success than the average person.



I think we can all choose to become DWs, but the majority of us won't be able to function 100% at this level.

Ok maybe we can choose to become one....but they can't choose not to be one or to become a lightworker. That is what I meant to say, that it if a psychopath is a darkworker that it is not because he choose to be one, he or she was born like that. So it seems that not everybody has the choice if it is true that darkworker=psychopath cause some are just born that way.
In that case it is wrong to say that everyone of us can choose and that it isn't something that you discover. In the case of psychopaths some of them cdo discover of themselves that they are different and if they would be able to see themselves fit in the darkworker definition but not because of their choice.
Others psychopaths will never find out that they are but other people could.

But I am not sure and certain if psychopaths really enjoy making people suffer. I had the impression that people certainly suffer under the influence of a psychopath but that not all of them seem to enjoy that the other suffers. Mostly they only enjoy the fact that they reach their goal and if that makes people suffer so be it. Of course some psychopaths my combine sadism in their personality but not all of them. You may see a psychopath smile when mistreating a person, but it is not always because he enjoys to see the one crying or suffering, but because he knows where he can get when he makes the person suffer.
But a psychopath is not someone you want to lead the world, as he doesn't care about the world.
But non psychopaths are often less smart than many psychopaths. So they don't recognize them.
Like you said only the dumber part of psychopaths end up in jail. Most of them are walking free and are even ruling our world today.
We got even stuck in a psychopathic economy. Everything has to be sacrificed for the benefit of the economy. But a psychopath in charge of the world or the economy will go further than that. He or She will finally sacrifice that company and economy and all of it. As a a psychopath has no long term goals. They also always need new kicks and chicks and so even being the CEO would not give satisfaction to stay CEO for the rest of their life and that is it. No they go on and on.
Anyway, people should learn about it and how to recognize one for their own sake.

I was confronted in my life with a psycho very closely and now when one approaches me I feel it in every little cell of my body.
There is only one advice that professionals can give about those people, get as far as possible away from them, and don't even think you will ever be able to talk things over and figure things out and settle things with a psycho. Just get out of his reach.

And yes maybe it is wrong to say that there is a malfunction in the brain. It is better to say that their brain works different. But I doubt that they all chose that their brain would work different.

[Chris_1977]

Originally Posted by Sam988

I'm sure you've heard of the MBTI typology. I think that most people who are "Feelers" will be better off with lightworking while most "Thinking" people could very well adapt with DW.

I think this is nonsense. It is just that T-types will go about lightworking in a more conceptual way. If you apply the concept that humanity is stronly interconnected a lot this will push you in the lightworking direction but not too much feeling needs to be involved. Actually, an INTP, having F as the inferior function, tends to use feeling in a rather naive, childlike way, that goes well together with "let us all be one big happy family".

Btw, I am INTP and inclined to lightworking. I cannot claim to have fully polarized, though.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Chris_1977

I think this is nonsense. It is just that T-types will go about lightworking in a more conceptual way. If you apply the concept that humanity is stronly interconnected a lot this will push you in the lightworking direction but not too much feeling needs to be involved. Actually, an INTP, having F as the inferior function, tends to use feeling in a rather naive, childlike way, that goes well together with "let us all be one big happy family".

Btw, I am INTP and inclined to lightworking. I cannot claim to have fully polarized, though.

Ok i take your word then. I spoke from my experience, but of course i couldn't possibly experience all personality types so i could be wrong as i stated in my post.

One thing that has influenced me to believe what this is that when you see on television, most of the villains are T and most of the good guys/heroes are Fs. The trend is very easy to see.

I still maintain that Ts are much more likely to fit into DW than Fs.

[Chris_1977]

Originally Posted by Sam988

One thing that has influenced me to believe what this is that when you see on television, most of the villains are T and most of the good guys/heroes are Fs. The trend is very easy to see.

You should be very careful not to take a biased sample if you do this. I get the impression that you consider mostly rather typical movies and/or series with a certain kind of story line and Myers Briggs types that fit into that. If you want to use movies or television series you should go very, very broad in order not to introduce a type bias. For one thing, you cannot limit yourself to the kind of program that you yourself would like (or even dislike) because that would introduce a huge type bias. To give an example of something that you may not have considered: in soap series the evil manipulative ENFJ is a reccurring theme. Is your consideration of television programs really that broad?

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Chris_1977

You should be very careful not to take a biased sample if you do this. I get the impression that you consider mostly rather typical movies and/or series with a certain kind of story line and Myers Briggs types that fit into that. If you want to use movies or television series you should go very, very broad in order not to introduce a type bias. For one thing, you cannot limit yourself to the kind of program that you yourself would like (or even dislike) because that would introduce a huge type bias. To give an example of something that you may not have considered: in soap series the evil manipulative ENFJ is a reccurring theme. Is your consideration of television programs really that broad?

It is. Not just of television programs, but movies also. It is a fact; the vast majority of villains are Ts.

If you could, by a draw or something, get a sample of 20 or more movies/TV shows from all existing ones, we would find the vast majority of villains being Ts.

[Zwynd]

Originally Posted by Calimero

But I am not sure and certain if psychopaths really enjoy making people suffer. I had the impression that people certainly suffer under the influence of a psychopath but that not all of them seem to enjoy that the other suffers. Mostly they only enjoy the fact that they reach their goal and if that makes people suffer so be it. Of course some psychopaths my combine sadism in their personality but not all of them. You may see a psychopath smile when mistreating a person, but it is not always because he enjoys to see the one crying or suffering, but because he knows where he can get when he makes the person suffer.

Had to jump back into the thread when I saw this. Your above examples are a delicious thing to imagine. Especially with what Sam988 linked as well. (Actually think I may have been salivating there...) I'd only wish to have more inner confidence and stronger sense of self growth/purpose. I however wouldn't call myself a Psychopath and likely wouldn't fit into your definition of a Darkworker, Calimero, nor would I say I'd feel comfortable as a Lightworker.

I had been taught at a young age to use my emotions to survive. It was necessary many times in my life and I'm grateful for learning the skill. I'm also not very interested in saving the world and making it a brighter and happier place. In fact, I often ponder doing quite the opposite. However, I find it necessary (and profitable) to help people, even strangers, if I know it will eventually benefit me. Even if not immediate, there will likely be a reward from it later on and so it's easier to do that and move on if the opportunity is there. I may help a few people here and there but I'm putting much more focused effort into helping myself.

I don't have a great hatred towards anyone or anything to where I spend countless hours loathing and planning revenge. If people die, they die. If another World War breaks out I'd be a little annoyed that I couldn't travel to X location because it's off limits but I wouldn't be trying to stop the fighting or join them on the front lines to make the world a 'better place.'

With that said, I don't think always ignoring a Darkworker (or a Darkworker ignoring a LW) is such a good idea. Whether or not their values match up to yours, they are both still people who are focused on living their lives more intuitively than just any ol' Joe who's practicing his mad skills to get the Gold Metal for CouchPotato sitting.

And who knows, that intuitive person's wisdom could come in handy one day.

[Calimero]

Originally Posted by Zwynd

Had to jump back into the thread when I saw this. Your above examples are a delicious thing to imagine. Especially with what Sam988 linked as well. (Actually think I may have been salivating there...) I'd only wish to have more inner confidence and stronger sense of self growth/purpose. I however wouldn't call myself a Psychopath and likely wouldn't fit into your definition of a Darkworker, Calimero, nor would I say I'd feel comfortable as a Lightworker.

I had been taught at a young age to use my emotions to survive. It was necessary many times in my life and I'm grateful for learning the skill. I'm also not very interested in saving the world and making it a brighter and happier place. In fact, I often ponder doing quite the opposite. However, I find it necessary (and profitable) to help people, even strangers, if I know it will eventually benefit me. Even if not immediate, there will likely be a reward from it later on and so it's easier to do that and move on if the opportunity is there. I may help a few people here and there but I'm putting much more focused effort into helping myself.

I don't have a great hatred towards anyone or anything to where I spend countless hours loathing and planning revenge. If people die, they die. If another World War breaks out I'd be a little annoyed that I couldn't travel to X location because it's off limits but I wouldn't be trying to stop the fighting or join them on the front lines to make the world a 'better place.'

With that said, I don't think always ignoring a Darkworker (or a Darkworker ignoring a LW) is such a good idea. Whether or not their values match up to yours, they are both still people who are focused on living their lives more intuitively than just any ol' Joe who's practicing his mad skills to get the Gold Metal for CouchPotato sitting.

And who knows, that intuitive person's wisdom could come in handy one day.

Fact is that I don't think that darkworkers are always equal to what is known as psychopathic people.
I just saw that many people seem to use the definition of a psychopath or rather listing up characteristics of psychopaths to define what a darkworker is.
But as Steve and others claim that being a darkworker is something that you chose for, I think just list up psychopathic to define a darkworker is not correct. As real born psychopaths never chose to be a psychopath so never chose to be a darkworker...and being a darkworker or lightworker is something has to be something that you choose for if you read Steve Blog on that kind of stuff.
So once more I come to the conclusion that describing what being a darkworker is seem to be very difficult as some people put it into equal to psychopathic patterns. So like a already said maybe Steve and Erin could work together and add something that is clearer.

So this just to say that I am not the one that believe that darkworker is the same as a psychopath. I just came to the conclusion that some people describe darkworkers as if it are but psychopaths.

To be honest, I haven't figured out yet what is really meant by being or to become a darkworker. But sure it is not exactly the same as being a psychopath, as to polarize to darkworker seems to be a choice you can make and being a psychopath isn't.

Anyway.
I am not judging the forum users on if they are psychopaths or not.
I am not judging if darkworkers are bad or not.
I am just trying to understand the concept....and I take a large detour for it.
I take a look at the interpretation of other people and try to figure out if their interpretation or way to describe darkwork or lightwork makes something clearer to me.
But up till know I find that people give it a certain interpretation that is their own but maybe not what Steve meant but they stick to it.
I can't believe that he would promote people to become psychopaths to reach their goals...if you understand what I try to say.
So I think it is hard to explain the concept of dark and light work. And so even a little dangerous to launch it as misinterpretation on a concept can lead sometimes to the opposite of what we wanted to reach with it....due to misunderstanding.
You see that this happens in all kind of religions as well. Most of them started from wanting to make the world a better place, but in misinterpretations or abuse of the concepts by individuals the result are poor.

So once more I am not judging on those who chose to become or to be a darkworker as I even don't know yet exactly what it means.
And I even don't blame psychopaths for being psychopaths as it was not their choice to be born that way.