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Welcome to the Personal Development for Smart People Forums, the place for lively, intelligent discussion of all personal growth issues -- physical, mental, financial, social, emotional, spiritual, and more. You're currently viewing as a guest, which gives you limited read-only access. By joining our free community, you'll be able to post your own messages, access many members-only features, see the new messages posted since your last visit, and of course remove this header message. Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please join today. If you arrived here from a search engine, you may want to explore the main site first, which includes hundreds of deep and insightful articles on a variety of personal development topics. |
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06-06-2008, 05:03 AM
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 It probably would have been rather slow-going, given that I'd have been starting this site in 1989 then. 
__________________ Steve Pavlina www.StevePavlina.com Get my new book Personal Development for Smart People (now available at Amazon.com)      |
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06-08-2008, 05:48 AM
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I really didn't learn programming in college, at least not in the way I was going to apply it. My practical programming knowledge was largely self-taught, although college taught me more of the theory side.
__________________ Steve Pavlina www.StevePavlina.com Get my new book Personal Development for Smart People (now available at Amazon.com) |
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06-08-2008, 06:02 AM
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| There seems to be a recurring anti-college vibe around these forums...
__________________ Sleep |
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06-08-2008, 02:23 PM
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I am not anti-college at all (I think a college education is an excellent thing) but I am opposed to the automatic assumption that everyone needs to go to college to get what they want in life. College, like anything else, should be something that helps you achieve your goals or learn something about yourself and your place in the world, not a rite of passage that everyone mindlessly adopts. However, some posters seem to express the opinion that college is a complete waste of time, a scam even. Last edited by JSB : 06-08-2008 at 02:28 PM. |
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06-08-2008, 05:27 PM
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| I agree JSB. For me, college was an unreplicable once-in-a-lifetime experience. I packed more experience in those 4 years than I did in the 8 previous years. It's like traveling -- have you ever noticed that a 3 week vacation is so densely packed with experiences, that you fit as much living in those 3 weeks as you would in 3 months of your at-home routine? The college lifestlye might not be as densely packed with experiences as traveling, but it comes close. You change classes every semester, work on new problems, live somewhere new every year, meet new people continuously... change change change... (i.e. grow, grow, grow...) There just aren't many other opportunities in life to be surrounded by other intelligent (and on my campus, beautiful  ) people your age and work on cool problems you never would have approached otherwise.I just get the feeling that a lot of younger people on these forums see professionalism as the end goal in life, that you must get there as quickly as possible. They see Steve's work, see that he's found his calling, see that he's making good money from it, and then rationalize skipping college to take the fast route on the Steve Pavlina life-track! I'm not old enough to really know yet, but older people keep telling me that the money will come. They say "you have the rest of your life to work and make money, so don't rush that part of life." I'm not sure how my college degree will come into play for my career (if at all). And along the same lines... I'm not sure if my one-way ticket to Argentina (that I just bought) will help me find a way to monetize my passions. Nor do I know how my decision to go to grad school overseas in neuroscience will help me find a job... nor do I particularly care. All I know is that if we ever meet in real life, I'll have some damn good stories to tell.
__________________ Sleep |
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06-08-2008, 05:40 PM
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| I agree that college does have its uses. For many fields, college is undispensable. But for people who are planning to be self employed, the only good thing about college is that it teaches/forces us to learn how to better interact with others, how to learn more efficiently (probably the biggest benefit of college), how to work in teams, how to be persistent, and some other things. And by side benefit, we get to learn a few things about what we're studying  If i had more courage i would drop college now since i think that i already learned the basic things and i know how to learn efficiently very well to the point that i wouldn't even need to attent the classes, just do my study on the basic materials available and i do just as well as if i attended the classes. And whatmore, my course is not completely in my field of interest although it's closely related. But hell, gonna finish what i started here, "just" 2 years left...
__________________ All that matters is results. Last edited by Sam988 : 06-08-2008 at 05:43 PM. |
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06-08-2008, 11:11 PM
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06-09-2008, 11:41 AM
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I think the real question, is what would you do instead of going to college. I think that very few people can just sit at home and spend their time effectivly.
__________________ I am always open for feedback on my posts. That might focused on the argument at hand or on my writing style. If your feedback would go offtopic feel free to send me a Personal Message. I don't believe in Beliefs. |
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06-09-2008, 11:58 AM
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| That's what college was to me - inefficient use of time. I imagine I picked a poor major and school as the people with me clearly did not want to learn - granted I was in freshman/sophomore classes; I just couldn't stand to be around spoiled brats for another 4 years. Turns out thats what a lot of working people are, too, though, as I found out when I got into the working world! Oh well, at least I'm doing what I love now Took me 3 months out of college to get a job in my industry. Only took me a year to leave my industry :P |
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06-09-2008, 12:33 PM
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| I think it is unfortunate that many young people are "forced" into going to college by their parents, who I am sure only want to provide their children with a prosperous future. More and more these days potential employers will want to see a university degree just to perform any monkey-job in their organization. For me university was absoultely essential. I have a degree in Civil Engineering and I would not be allowed to practice my craft without said degree. Then again, my degree was very practical and it taught me the skills and knowledge that I apply everyday. However, most other degrees only teach secondary skills, like writing, research, organization, etc. that can be leaarned individually. College wouldn't be such a huge problem if it weren't so expensive, though. I thank the fates that I live in Canada and don't have to contend with American tuition  |
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06-09-2008, 04:01 PM
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06-09-2008, 04:26 PM
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| Oooh i loved, loved, loved university. I really blossomed when I went there. Yes I might have blossomed if I hadn't gone, but being a safe space with tutors that supported me and being on an intensive vocational degree meant I had to work hard and develop my skills in a short space of time. Saying that education in the UK is cheaper than the US and was cheaper in the early 90s when I attended. All my course fees were paid for by the government and I had grant that almost covered my rent in a shared house. (I also had a part time job and took a loan of just over £1k each year) so when I left my total debt was the student loan of £5k which is now paid back (yeah!). I can understand why people think twice when faced with the tuition costs and potential debts of £50k. I think it is such a shame that the opportunity for further education seems to be closing to children from poorer backgrounds. But the experience was very valuable to me. Even though I'm in a different profession, i know that the degree I have opens doors. I'd go again in a heartbeat.
__________________ Be the change... |
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06-13-2008, 05:03 PM
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| The only reason I'm attending college is to over the insurance costs . Without it, rates would be through the roof.
__________________ Lightning Shock - My Blog Are there connections between Arizona and Ancient Egypt? |
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06-13-2008, 07:08 PM
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__________________ Sleep |
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06-24-2008, 01:17 AM
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06-24-2008, 06:03 AM
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It's like saying you want to be a scientist. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a scientist, but science work can range from working with test tubes in a lab for 70 hours a week, to traveling the world collecting rocks, to teaching in academia, to working with computers, to staying in your office 10 hours a day reading papers, to writing proposals... At your age it would be kinda silly to say you just wanted to be a scientist, right? You'd want to have at least *some* direction - like, do you prefer physics and math, or psychology and sociology? Saying "I want to be a scientist" makes sense if you're in 3rd grade, but you'll get laughs at your age. In the same way, just wanting to be an entrepreneur doesn't say much about your true desires, which to me says your sorta throwing a hail marry. As if you're saying "well, i guess entrepreneurs make lots of money and are out of the rat race? yeah i'll be one of those guys". I have a friend who always tells me he wants to start a business. I ask him what kind of business and he just shrugs. He's the type of guy who's continually unhappy with his life that he imagines that having no job (i.e. beint an entrepreneur) will solve his problems. Needless to say, his vagueness has gotten him nowhere and he's still at his same old job after 5+ years of "wanting to be an entrepreneur". Also, consider the statistics: statistically speaking, entrepreneurs work more hours and earn less money than employed people. There's a very long tail of unsuccessful entrepreneurs, while only a few win big. You just don't hear of the failures. (From a personal development standpoing, that statistic is irrelevent if your hearts really in it (read Steve's article: What are the odds of becoming a black belt?)). But I'm just worried that you (and others in your situation) are going to stumble around without any strict goals, with the vague idealism that entrepreneurship is the ultimate path in life (but not really having any idea if it is your true path). The vagueness isn't always such a bad thing, and almost everyone has some sense of vagueness in terms of purpose at your age (if your intuition says you should skip college and try to be an entrepreneur, then as you move forward the dots should find a way to connect themselves). But there's a scenario I'm worried about: You'll end up like a lot of my friends, who sit at home, stuck in routines, browsing the Internet all day, living with their parents, and making slow (or no) progress on their ambitions and goals. Some of these friends talk talk talk about someday doing something big, like starting their own business, but they're stuck in the routine and they never take action. For me, college was an immeasurably incredible experience. I was pretty vague about what I wanted to do in life before college. And I'm so glad I had those 4 years to grow intellectually and figure things out instead of having to flop around staying at home. I can't imagine how small life would have felt in comparison if I decided to stay at home and under my own poor self-discipline ever so slowly progressed on something as vague as "become an entrepreneur". My advice is to take this opportunity at your age to do something really really cool - go to college, meet interesting people, build relationships, and pack in more "years" of human experience than you ever would staying at home. One of the most useful pieces of advice I've been given is "don't be afraid of hard work." It's very easy to spot those people who are afraid of working hard. And once you spot those people you can tell they're types who believe that life is something to be survived, not tried. They're the types who talk about doing big things (e.g. start a business so they can have more time at home watching TV) but never really do them. I'm not sure exactly why you don't want to go to college, Lupe, but I hope it's not because of the work. You should never be afraid of hard work. Sorry for the long and presumptuous post. If it struck a nerve, then good. If it didn't, ignore it, but maybe it struck a nerve with another reader...
__________________ Sleep |
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06-28-2008, 05:51 PM
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| "You'll end up like a lot of my friends, who sit at home, stuck in routines, browsing the Internet all day, living with their parents, and making slow (or no) progress on their ambitions and goals. Some of these friends talk talk talk about someday doing something big, like starting their own business, but they're stuck in the routine and they never take action." How did they end up like that? Parents allowed? |
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06-28-2008, 07:05 PM
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Collages gives your life structure. Not everyone needs external structure to get to work, but most people get nowhere when they are sitting at home and free of feedback loops that help them to get productive.
__________________ I am always open for feedback on my posts. That might focused on the argument at hand or on my writing style. If your feedback would go offtopic feel free to send me a Personal Message. I don't believe in Beliefs. |
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06-29-2008, 12:16 AM
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For me college was NOT a RITE OF PASSAGE. It was a Jolly Good Time and I wish I could go back and experience some of my yet unfulfilled fantasies. (I was more shy then than I am now.) |
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06-29-2008, 12:21 AM
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