Jennihul banned?

[Tasaio]

Personal Development for Smart People Forums - View Profile: Jennihul

Who banned Jennihul, and why?

[MidasGirl]

What did she say? A shame too, she's the one who drew me to this place. Looking at her last few posts, none seems inflamatory. Unless of course she said something that was deleted.

[Erin Pavlina]

It's a temporary ban. She'll be unbanned soon.

[ProjectX]

She probably said something that got deleted or had multiple accounts.

[Keith]

I'd actually like to see more accountability on bans: ie. a log of why people have been banned and for how long the ban is for.

I find it has a bit of a chilling effect on free speech - if people are unclear on what's 'over the line' they tend to become overly conservative in what they're willing to say.

Personally, I'm generally too opinionated for that to bother me () but even I sometimes feel nervous posting something, unclear whether it's the sort of thing that would result in a ban or not.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Keith

I find it has a bit of a chilling effect on free speech - if people are unclear on what's 'over the line' they tend to become overly conservative in what they're willing to say.

Personally, I'm generally too opinionated for that to bother me () but even I sometimes feel nervous posting something, unclear whether it's the sort of thing that would result in a ban or not.

There are always warnings before a ban. I wouldn't worry that one will just come out of the blue, that's not the case.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Tasaio

Who banned Jennihul, and why?

She kept PMing me love notes. For the integrity of the forum I had to report her.

[Neblasian]

Originally Posted by Keith

I'd actually like to see more accountability on bans: ie. a log of why people have been banned and for how long the ban is for.
I find it has a bit of a chilling effect on free speech - if people are unclear on

Yea me too. Sometimes it surprises me when some of the most frequent posters suddenly get banned.



Neblasian

[Brutha]

I find it has a bit of a chilling effect on free speech - if people are unclear on what's 'over the line' they tend to become overly conservative in what they're willing to say.

There were a few instances where we moderators thought she was over the line (she called another poster a troll).
She responded with:

No problem. I just calls em like I sees em. Sometimes that trait will be acceptable and sometimes it won't. Your call.

That a problematic response because when we say that something is over the line, we don't want the user to repeat that behavior.

Then a few days ago Jennihul trolled in a thread in Psychic & Paranormal where people wanted to discuss paranormal explanations for an event.
That resulted in the 7 day ban that is at the moment in place.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Then a few days ago Jennihul trolled in a thread in Psychic & Paranormal

I still don't get what this "trolling" means...and when I see the word "troll," I think of the little ugly green guys with the hooked noses in fairytales...right?

[Erin Pavlina]

Trolling is when you write something designed to provoke or incite an emotional response from people for the sole purpose of getting a rise out of them. Trolls do not contribute to a conversation instead often derailing it for their own personal amusement. An example would be going to an all vegan parenting board and just saying, "I loves me some meat. I love chewing on the flesh of baby innocent animals. Makes me feel all squishy inside." That's just one example, there are many ways to troll.

In regards to banning someone, it's not our policy to announce who has been banned, for how long, and why. Often that is personal and the banned person wouldn't want it shared. So you'll see a "banned" under their name. In most cases the mods won't discuss the ban situation for privacy purposes. But you can be sure we don't ban people, permanently or temporarily, without warnings first or just cause.

[Steve Pavlina]

FYI the reasons for banning are pretty well laid out in the posted forum rules that everyone agrees to when they join:
Personal Development for Smart People Forums - Announcements in Forum : General & Introductions

Free speech rights don't apply here. When you join these forums, you agree to follow the specific forum rules of conduct. Those rules are conduct are intended to maximize the value of the forums for its members. Consequently, there are some limits on free speech here, such as no posting spam, no making personal attacks on other members, and no derailing threads.

If you want a place where you can post whatever the heck you want w/o regard to consequences, there are other forums for that. These forums have a a more specific purpose, which is to help people grow and improve their lives.

When you join these forums, you contractually agree to accept some limits on your free speech in order to maximize the value provided by the community. In the time this forum has been online, these rules have worked fairly well.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Trolling is when you write something designed to provoke or incite an emotional response from people for the sole purpose of getting a rise out of them.

Oh you mean like Steve's article on Religion!

I'm kiddin.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Oh you mean like Steve's article on Religion!
I'm kiddin.

You beat me to it! Only I'm not kidding.

It seems wrong that Steve's blog post would get any one of us banned for trolling if we posted it in the forums. I'm not saying he can't do that - it's his site - but it seems wrong.

[Brutha]

It seems wrong that Steve's blog post would get any one of us banned for trolling if we posted it in the forums. I'm not saying he can't do that - it's his site - but it seems wrong.

If you would open a new thread to post something like this it would be okay.
If you would go into an existing thread in which someone ask whether he should go to church A or to church B in his area your post might get deleted and if you repeadly do such a thing you might get banned.

[javamannen2]

Hmm...

Originally Posted by Brutha

There were a few instances where we moderators thought she was over the line (she called another poster a troll).

Originally Posted by Brutha

Then a few days ago Jennihul trolled...

Didn't you just call her a troll?
Aren't you "over the line" now?

[Brutha]

Didn't you just call her a troll?
Aren't you "over the line" now?

1. It important to seperate statement about behavior from statements about identity.
2. It is the job of moderators to deal with cases of trolling. If a user sees trolling in the forum he/she should report the thread in question.
It's not the role of the user to escalate a situation like that.
3. There is a good argument for not explaining why people get banned (you have to speak about bad behavior).
Giving people wanting to know why it happened I chosed to explain a bit.

[RobertJDuncan]

I admin a message board for the magazines I work for...and I can definitely commiserate with Steve, Erin, and the other mods. It can be a thankless job.

Steve summed up my feelings on the issue pretty well...In a private forum, the owner sets the rules. This isn't a public forum hosted by a public entity. It's a privately-owned forum owned and managed by a private individual. Basically, you need to be aware that you check your "constitutional rights" at the door. The rights of the private owner trumps these "freedoms."

It's all relative. No one would argue that you have the right to call "Fire" in a packed theater...but that's infringing on your freedom of speech.

On the magazine message board, we also seldom state when and why someone has been banned in the open forum. In fact, in the three years I've been admining, I've only done that once, and it's because a person I had to permanently ban (We've got a three strikes your out rule) logged back in using a false name, and was basically thumbing his nose at the other mods and I. When I found out, I banned him, and told everyone why I did it.

This ended up longer than I anticipated...but I just wanted to go on the record thanking Steve, Erin, and the other mods for a job well done!

Bob

[Steve Pavlina]

As Brutha mentioned, making controversial or emotional forum posts is fine if you're starting a new thread and inviting people to discuss it.

Trolling generally involves posting sarcastic commentary, insults, or off-topic comments in other people's threads to derail the conversation. Often this is done because the troll doesn't respect other people's rights to discuss topics the troll doesn't agree with.

For example, if a pregnant woman starts up a thread to discuss the best options for getting an abortion because she knows she doesn't want to keep her baby, and an anti-abortionist comes in and starts needling her and calling her a sinner and a killer for her choice, that's trolling. But it would be okay to point out other options besides abortion w/o trying to derail the original topic.

Generally speaking, trolling is the kind of behavior that if done in person would often be rewarded with a fist in the mouth. I think banning accounts that are used for trolling is a more compassionate choice.

When forums are overrun by trolls, people don't feel free to start new threads on topics that really matter to them. We discuss a lot of serious topics here, so I think it's important to maintain a troll-free environment.

The downside is that when trolls are banned, they often hop to other forums and then rant about the "unfair" treatment they had here and how they were banned because of their beliefs or because they disagreed with me -- oh, please. I don't see a good option other than just accepting that will happen sometimes. The bright side is that they're out there promoting these forums on our behalf.

Trolling is largely due to immaturity IMO. Most people eventually grow out of it.

[Steve Pavlina]

To report incidents of trolling, please use the "Report This Post" feature by clicking the appropriate link in the upper right of any post. That way it will be brought to the mods' attention, a decision will be made, and if deemed necessary, action taken. All reported posts show up in a private mods forum, so all the mods have a chance to see it, look into it, and recommend what action (if any) should be taken.

I don't recall seeing a PM about this, but I generally prefer to let the mods discuss and handle reported posts and come to a consensus when possible.

Sometimes we all get too close to a discussion to recognize trolling when it flares up, but when a post is reported, it's easier for mods to take a look at the account and see if there's a pattern of trolling.

So please report problem posts using the built-in mechanism for that instead of sending PMs if you can. It makes our job a lot easier and helps prevent problems from slipping through the cracks.

[wolfgang]

I've thought trolling is a bit of a seeking attention type behavior. Like if someone "needs" replies and to feel heard in an Internet forum they might just play devil's advocate in a jarring way, just to insure replies and see posts come back. To feel more important.

So if you feel this way, that you want to make a point in such a way that you are stirring the pot and desiring some interaction at the expense of turning into a rude user - then you are seeing your inner troll behavior.

[Dan.Linehan]

What Steve said bears repeating. If a post if inappropriate, please report it using the red "Report Post" button.

Tasaio, I do see where you reported Amadeus's ACLU post when it was written. That was the right process. In that specific case, the personal attack was directed specifically at me and I decided to respond to it directly in the thread, rather than pursuing follow-up through a warning or ban.

Being called a transsexual peace protester only qualifies as a personal attack when you're holding a belief that being a transsexual peace protester is a bad thing.

That just goes to show how fine a line moderation can be. We try to avoid taking things personally while working through any issues without using bans. But sometimes the warning / ban process is still necessary to maintain a safe, proactive environment.

That being said, I'm closing this thread. The original question has been answered and we are just getting way off topic here.