10 Reasons You Should Never Have a Religion (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

10 Reasons You Should Never Have a Religion

[Dave Kaminski]

I need to work on my list writing abilities, especially in the form of whistle blowing.

Steve, I once again thank you for showing us how such a simple way to write can have such a strong impact on a myriad topics.

I find myself wasting time trying to argue points as they come about instead of using such a smart and logical top down approach as list building. Revision is sometimes necessary, but you personally really do strike it rich when you make top ten lists where they are called for.

I think the Google searches for "Hestia" are going to go up tenfold...

[Angela]

Oh, Steve, you are such a little scamp!

You are really stirring up the pot lately!

[jamestl2]

But won't I burn in hell for eternity if I don't have a religion? Who wants to go through endless torments?

Also, this article has a suspiciously similar format to another one of my favorite blog posts.

[Snooks]

Bravo Steve, you deserve a round of applause for this.

You've taken what I've always thought about religion and put it into words so eloquently.

[Niki]

Nice article

[JohnR]

Yup, that just about sums it up. But only for those who are brave enough to face life on their own -- and capable of it.

Many people need everything you identified as degrading and pointless. They aren't strong enough, visionary enough, or intelligent enough to do otherwise. It's a shame, but going it alone is only possible for the few. That's changing. We are not there yet though.

Most major religions began with one face for the masses (rudimentary instructions for living), and deeper esoteric aspects for the few that were capable of more. Predictably, the masses have perverted their rudimentary version of spirituality by proclaiming it as the ultimate, all inclusive path. What else could they do? They didn't have the necessary to understand the deeper aspects. We are experiencing a strength-in-numbers problem in this issue.

But those numbers are changing. Every day, more people are exposed to alternative thought that the narrow vision of big religion excludes.

People are becoming braver. We have reason to be hopeful.

So are you are going to tackle politics next :-)

John
Self Help for Sensitive Souls — Zen-Moments

[Ree]

Thanks for this! I've printed it out to remind myself NOT to carry around the guilt, fear and all the other baggage from my years of Christianity.

[Paul C]

That was a very enjoyable read! Poking the religious bear this time I see.

I would have to say the most quote worthy line I noticed in this article was:

"Religion is spiritual immaturity. That’s a compliment." Indeed.

[KeithHandy]

Originally Posted by jamestl2

But won't I burn in hell for eternity if I don't have a religion? Who wants to go through endless torments?

Also, this article has a suspiciously similar format to another one of my favorite blog posts.

It's not just the format that's similar, it's practically the whole message. I think most ordinary churchgoers actually have enough compartment-space in their brains for several religions, with capital-R "Religion" being only one of them, and the 40-hour workweek (in America, anyway) being another. It doesn't matter if you accomplish anything; if you put in the 40 hours, you're a good member of society.

These two religions are fairly symbiotic to each other too, are they not? Submit to a higher authority Monday through Friday, so that when Sunday comes along, it's just one more...

[stephen.fung]

Bravo, Steve, for the courage to take a stand on something that's going to garner you a lot of hate mail. You've clearly amused a lot of atheists, but I hope the article won't come across as too inflammatory to do any good in converting religious fence-sitters.

[Ecce Homo]

I could sum up my review of this article with two words: OH SNAP! That article was awesome! Angela was right. You are most definitely stirring the pot and I love it!

[Savage]

All hate mail will be forwarded to my Creator.

[mlc82]

Wow Steve...

I think you just topped George Carlin for summing up my views on religion better than I could myself (or "the way I wish I would have thought to sum it up first cause it's right on" )

I'm VERY tempted to post this as a myspace bulletin but am not sure I want to deal with the firestorm it's likely to cause. Of course, most people who know me already also know that even the word "religion", and especially "Christianity", just make my blood boil like almost nothing else on earth, so maybe it wouldn't be such a stretch...

[Love]

That's the closest thing to a rant that I've ever seen you write, Steve. I don't question the content, but the writing tone surprises me. I can't even get through it all because it hits me like a wave. What's the reason behind that tone?

[Rosie]

I loved the article. He said exactly what people think, but are too afraid to say.

[Publius74]

I know that the post made was probably just meant to get the idiots or hypocrites among us up in arms, but I'll bite anyway.

Yes, religion requires that believers subsume their actions and thoughts to a higher being and purpose. It takes "me" out of the center of the equation. I can understand why people would have issues with this.

I can also understand how, in a world of science, "faith" becomes a dirty word. You want to "know" something, but instead you're required to "believe" in something. Kind of like believing that all knowledge can be gained by believing in the self's ability to determine reality apart from a god. Don't we all have faith in something? It's just that some people believe that the only thing that they should have faith in is themselves and their own reasoning. Again, I understand why faith is hard. Though I don't understand whether it's avoidable. You either believe in what you want to believe in or what you think you should believe in. Either way, don't we all believe?

I also understand how people (Americans, in particular) would find it difficult to believe that anything other than their own free will can determine one's destiny. I doubt it's as hard for those in other countries to see this because they have so clearly been shown how their own free will did not determine their destiny, but I understand the attractiveness of the belief.

I understand too how religion can be tied to some major crimes in the last century. I also understand how faith can be tied to fear, how some who are religious can be intolerant and how religion is just as likely to be inherited as it is to be believed.

What I don't understand is the alternative. Believing in yourself as the sole arbiter and determinant of truth? Believing that science has all the answers, without an ounce of faith entwined in it? Believing that having religious people commit crimes indicts religion? Believing that calling those who are religious "idiots or hypocrites" demonstrates the vastly superior tolerance of the irreligious?

Anyway, I still got a good kick out of your article, so thanks for it!

[Dive Bomb]

I agree with it all. I have a feeling it will go to the front page of Digg and Del.icio.us either tomorrow or the next day.

[jamestl2]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

All hate mail will be forwarded to my Creator.

Your parents?

Originally Posted by Love

That's the closest thing to a rant that I've ever seen you write, Steve. I don't question the content, but the writing tone surprises me. What is that all about?

What's wrong with the tone? I've read (and written a few) other blog posts of his that have similar tones as this one, and they don't seem insulting or rude in nature, just written from a satirical perspective (even if the content isn't exactly satire).

Originally Posted by KeithHandy

It's not just the format that's similar, it's practically the whole message. I think most ordinary churchgoers actually have enough compartment-space in their brains for several religions, with capital-R "Religion" being only one of them, and the 40-hour workweek (in America, anyway) being another. It doesn't matter if you accomplish anything; if you put in the 40 hours, you're a good member of society.

These two religions are fairly symbiotic to each other too, are they not? Submit to a higher authority Monday through Friday, so that when Sunday comes along, it's just one more...

That's exactly what I was thinking

They are both "beasts with a similar functioning system" from my point of view. They both give you an alternative to what most people believe is mandatory and required of you. You decide your own future, not what society or religion dictates it to be.

[Neutral]

This is like bashing someone in the head for kicks.

[impaul99]

Although I am not "pro-religion" I think you could have done better than to paint every priest with the pedophile brush. I know of a local high-school teacher who was a pedophile too, so should we eliminate all teachers as well? He was married, so I don't know if celibacy really has anything to do with things.

You seem to have a lot of hatred towards religions Steve. I don't go to Church myself, but I know some people who enjoy going to Church, they enjoy the social atmosphere, some of them are older and it brings them comfort to go and pray etc. It's their beliefs, based on their upbringing so who cares. If believing in Jesus or God or whatever, brings them comfort so be it. They've never been molested by their priest or anything like that, and I'm sorry to hear that the priest you clearly put your trust in later turned out to be a pedophile.

On the path to raising your own level of consciousness / awareness, you might look into this further as for me when I read the article it really felt like a lot of fear/hatred towards Christianity was built into it.

Unless of course you just wrote the article to be controversial since that is one really good way to get traffic to your site.

On a slight tangent, considering your negative views of Christianity and organized religion, what are your thought of "A Course in Miracles"? It is a "Self-Help" course, requiring NO PRIEST and NO CHURCH and only your own self to master the course. The Christian Church has shunned the book, I believe calling the author who chanelled the text a lunatic or something like that. What do you think about ACIM?

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Neutral

This is like bashing someone in the head for kicks.

You got that feeling too?

Would have been much better if it was delivered by Borat, and aimed at Kazakhstan.

[GreenTea]

Steve,

I agree with your points in this article--I have some questions however.

Do you think that the tone of the article is helpful in conveying these points to people who don't already see things in a similar way? Is there a more effective way to appeal to people who blindly follow religion? Or is this basically impossible anyway?

Again, I agree with your points---but something that concerns me in my own issues with religion is that I sometimes observe myself falling into the trap of, for example, judging people who are judgemental. Sometimes I find myself "increasing the 'otherness' of others" by not seeing through their 'beliefs' to the Being within them that is one with the Being in me. I hope this makes sense.

These questions are really total projections of my own issues--I've been very judgemental of Christianity in particular and I've really made an effort to, for example, not squirm inside when I meet someone and they tell me they're a Christian. I've made some progress, but it bothers me that I am not more fully accepting....

[Plato]

No.

This is just not a fair evaluation of all religions. Mine is the only real one.

I've gotta let you know an over-religion is emerging. UBERMENSCHISM. The first holy scriptures are COMING SOON, available to herd members at the discounted rate of YOUR SOUL. If you have a soul that is; we're having a committee meeting to decide that next week but it's probably going to be a Yes, so rest assured on that count. What I can promise with some certainty is that this is the true way. All the others are the evil ones!

If you want to try it out, jolly well come along for a taster brainwashing, I mean INSTRUCTIONAL seminar. Be lovely to see you all. Tea and biscuits in the foyer.

P.S. I had my first run-in with pure fundamentalism last week in the form of an attempted terrorist attack 100 meters from my house. Some guy with a history of mental illness had been brainwashed by muslim extremists to place bombs in a family restaurant. The only thing he damage was his own face. Bit disturbing- I thought I was in a nice place!
BBC NEWS | England | Devon | Exeter bomb loaded with chemicals

[Neutral]

Originally Posted by impaul99

You got that feeling too?

Would have been much better if it was delivered by Borat, and aimed at Kazakhstan.

I'm not clever.

Here's how I originally responded to the article.

Written àllah George Carlin and Bill Hicks.

But why write in a satirical tone?

What does an anti-religious statement written in this style do?

The people that already agree, will rah-rah but everyone else will just be pissed off.

Then I wrote the line that I actually posted and went !

I went through heady analysis writing that. I thought that a logical thinker like Steve can't be this foolish but I almost forgot the he can senseless fun sometimes...pwned!

Sometimes, I think I need "Comedic Sense for Smart People"!

Who else needs to read that website?

[Rachelle]

Originally Posted by Love

That's the closest thing to a rant that I've ever seen you write, Steve. I don't question the content, but the writing tone surprises me. I can't even get through it all because it hits me like a wave. What's the reason behind that tone?

I think Steve's decided to write this way because this writing style has the result of getting one's attention and stirring one up. It's active writing with a clear and committed standpoint vs. taking a more safe and non-offensive approach. (... that, and he's also been accused of having hit writer's block. Perhaps it's also a little something to prove it just ain't so. heheh)


I'd be very interested in reading a follow-up post to this one, that addresses exploring spirituality in such a way that DOES promote consciousness. You know... something that offers a concrete alternative (or alternative_S_).

[Mr.Mustache]

I consider myself a Buddhist so forgive my lack of spiritual depth perception a moment as I point out that Steve offers no spiritually mature alternative to popular religious worship. No vague New Ageism doesn't count. Sorry to rain on the parade but I see no one has offered a dissenting view point and that makes me worried about the amount of independent thinking going on here.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Mr.Mustache

I see no one has offered a dissenting view point and that makes me worried about the amount of independent thinking going on here.

Considering that, think how easy it would be to start a cult or even your own religion.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Loved it. Absolutely loved it. I love people that go against the grain. I've been talking to people for the last four years about how religion is fear-based mindset. It is our way of dealing with death. In a way.

Not only was this article informative, but it was also insanely funny. Touche, Steve.

[cylon]

I enjoyed this Steve, maybe moreso for your biting sarcasm. You were defnintely "on a roll". Kind of wished I'd read something like this years ago when I was caught up in the whole shame/guilt cylce of religion myself.

One part that struck me was how you mentioned that the teachings contradict each other by design, in order to just make your brain explode.

Countless times I tried to understand the Christian concept of free-will yet it's all pre-destined. That god loved us so he killed his only son, and you had to genuinely love him for that.

I've debated it, read countless explanations for it, and it still doesn't make sense. I had to let it go. I was afraid to of course, terrified actually, but I didn't feel this grateful love I was supposed to. A couple years later, and I make peace with it.

However this is the first time I recall reading that perhaps my confusion was by design. Very thought provoking article.