10 Reasons You Should Never Have a Religion (Blog)

[JeromeX]

Originally Posted by Dive Bomb

Personally I like a little "shock voltage" in his articles, but some may not. Different strokes, for different folks.

Steve has found this secret BUTTON of blog marketing: playing emotion. It is supposed to be hollywood's patent.

What is personal development about? It is about developing your emotional strength so that you won't be played emotionally by others, thus you become a master of emotion playing.

Some guys are emotionally played, so some guys are entertained. This was how blockbusters were born.

Don't be supprised when Steve appears in Oprah's show , or has lunch with Steven Spielberg some day.

[NigelB]

I've been following Steve on and off for a while now, as I have been interested in personal development for the past few years.

I had to smile when I saw this post from Steve, which I have to say I broadly agree with. I too abandoned my beliefs in organized religion some time ago for many of the reasons laid out by Steve.

However, having taken a step back from things over the past few months I've also come to realize that this whole self-improvement (maybe New Age?) industry/movement/belief system (call it what you will) is not really any better than an organized religion.

Unfortunately (in my opinion) Steve is a part of this 'movement'.

The message of self-improvement 'gurus' is that you can have what you like as long as you follow the techniques that they have discovered for themselves. As long as you attend their seminar, buy their book, purchase from their website, then you too can have a life as fulfilling as theirs, because yours is crap and they have many (if not all) of the answers for you.

You know, I've read the works of many self-improvement 'gurus' who spin tales about how they have followers who have 'transformed their business', 'increased their income by 400%', 'got the partner of their dreams', (insert your own fantasy here...). But, I've NEVER met anyone who has achieved the results claimed by these gurus. However, I've met PLENTY of people who have purchased their products.

At best, people like Steve are either at-best self-deluded, or at worst preying on impressionable folks who want a better life but don't have the physical or mental resources to get it.

If you abandon all beliefs (including self-improvement ideology and techniques), it boils down to this: you are on your own. Life can be, and often is very hard. No one is going to come along and give you the answer or rescue you. You have to accept these realities and after the initial shock of acceptance, you can build true courage to face life. Its a harsh reality, but you're never looking over your shoulder for anyone (or anything) to give you the answers or bail you out.

This is my experience...take it or leave it, I have nothing to sell.

Don't spend years (or maybe your whole life) deluding yourself with religion, self improvement gurus, junk fed to you from the TV/newspaper etc. Stand on your own, be an adult, and face life with true courage and accept the realities of life.

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by impaul99

I've only been to Church like once a year in the last 10 years or so, mostly for like funerals and weddings and baptisms and stuff like that. Since I've been learning and pursuing a spiritual path, whenever I go I always listen really carefully to what the priest is saying.

I'd like to say that they are idiots, but every time I've gone and listened, everything they said made total sense to me. I don't know, sometimes I get the feeling that maybe these priests are not to blame. Sometimes I think the people attending church are just not listening to a word they are saying and just doing their own thing, pretending to be following their Church.

I don't know... I find it hard to have an opinion on this topic.

If you were in a church and could look inside each person's mind, you would discover that they all have their own concept of God, a personal meaning to the name of Jesus and so on. We each have our own religion, IMO, that is what spirituality is. When people come together in a church, they aren't denying that fact. They are saying, "There are some common threads in all of our personal religions, let us celebrate."

The problem is when I think that your spirituality should be exactly like mine. I go to an Evangelical church and sometimes a Catholic church. I'm sure if I sat down with some of their members and got into a theological discussion, we would discover that our beliefs are different in many ways. I'm not there for a debate. I enjoy singing the hymns and I get something when I listen to the sermons.

I spent many years arguing with people and thinking I needed to be right. After quite a bit of life experience, I realized that what I know is not that important. Whether I love people or not is. That doesn't mean I have to bow to anyone's intellect or allow people to walk all over me. At the end of the day, I still love all people even if I disagree with them or they hurt me in some way.

If you look into the hearts of people including your own, you find they are all the same. We all have the same hopes and fears. It doesn't matter whether it is the Pope, 50 Cent or Steve Pavlina.

[JeromeX]

Originally Posted by Intrawebs

It seems you honed in and the weakness's of Christianity, which is fine, just don't lump Buddhism in there as well because while they do share many of the same benefits one may get from them, the downsides you highlighted are not synonymous between the two.

And, with your January Raw Food diet and now this I've unsubscribe from your RSS, I was duped into thinking you were a bit more educated/read than I thought. Good Luck, you don't need it thought as you seem to be successful already.

Originally Posted by Ninja

Hear, hear! I think it was a good article, but labeling Buddhism as a religion? [COLOR="Red"]No, No, No![/COLOR] Talk about a spiritual faux pas! Buddhism is no more a religion than beef is a vegetable. Steve, are you sure your diet is really vegan?

Buddhism is an organized religion just as Christianity, or it is even worse. Please educate yourself by google. Here is the starting point:

Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth

The Dalai Lama's hidden past

When I visited China last year, I attended the religion ritual in one of Buddhism temples with my friends, and was amazed how the spiritual teaching of Buddha has become superstition there.

The monks have grown so rich by providing spiritual opium: they are driving BMW. The masters of zen are now using Internet to do online marketing.

Falungong - a variation of Buddhism - has grown into an powerful global business with their own newspapers and other propaganda machine. This well-organized cult emerged over night is very aggressive in pushing their agenda.

I am not against Buddhism. Actually I am practicing some Buddhism teaching myself such as meditation and be aware of ego.

However, any spiritual movement can become an organized religion or cult. So do self-improvement and self-help movement.

[pianoperformer]

Excellent article. There were some generalizations that I thought were unfair, but I get the point of it.

NigelB, I'm just curious how you think Steve can be lumped into what you are talking about? I agree with you mostly, regarding most self-help books etc, but there is only advice here, not even anything to purchase, so I don't think profit is his aim, and to say it is I think is unfair. The entire message here is for you to find your own way, and be responsible for your own life, instead of just believing in what you are told or what you read.

Both Steve and Erin, I think, go on their personal experience only, being reluctant to believe something if they cannot experience it or if it does not make sense and prove beneficial. They write about it to encourage us to do the same.

[EFK]

My friend Steve,

You speak of conscious living, but are you aware of the disrespect, the lack of compassion on display in "10 Reasons. . ."? It seems that you have some self-reflection to do concerning your feelings towards religion. I suspect that you had some painful experiences in this area and that you have yet to resolve that pain. Don't mistake your intellectual contempt as something spiritually helpful to other people. I suspect that writing this for you was not really an attempt to help others along their spiritual path, but rather a way for you to unload your resentment. I actually agree with your general assertion that organized religion (ie: creed) is not the best way to spiritual growth. I think that it was beneficial for the human race at a certain point in our development, but now we must move past it. We must also move past resentment - all resentment. We must have respect and compassion for others - not least of all because we ourselves could be wrong from time to time. One of your critiques is that O.R. is fixed and rigid. Well, it seems to me the only way to avoid those states is compassion - which naturally opens us up. Disrespect is not compassion, therefore not an opening up, therefore fixed and rigid - the exact thing you mean to condemn in others. I hope my words find you in a good place and that they are only beneficial for you.

Regards,
EFK

[Angela]

Well, one good thing about the post ... it got a boatload of new people to come out of the woodwork and register as members and post for the first time!

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Actually I was thinking my next article should be titled:

Are You Vegetarian... or Evil?

Hahahaha

It's true! Anybody who eats meat and claims to be a "good" person is a hypocrite. Environmental damage of animal farming + cruelty + abundance of non meat foods = what the hell are meat eaters thinking? Oh they don't like the taste of vegetables! Oh dear, tell that to the dead animal who's cooked flesh you are eating!

Please post that.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Plato

Hahahaha

It's true! Anybody who eats meat and claims to be a "good" person is a hypocrite. Environmental damage of animal farming + cruelty + abundance of non meat foods = what the hell are meat eaters thinking? Oh they don't like the taste of vegetables! Oh dear, tell that to the dead animal who's cooked flesh you are eating!

Please post that.

What about the poor vegetables? You don't feel sorry for them when you are munching them to death? Or do you feel that just because they aren't red-blooded they deserve to be treated with less respect and little compassion? huh? Huh?

BTW, I think that would be a great blog. Though I doubt people are as emotionally invested in 'meat eating being evil' as they are in 'the rightness of their religious beliefs'.

[Rustom]

Originally Posted by impaul99

I just don't know. I went to church for the first 9 years of my life and I think I turned out ok. Any thoughts?

Steve also.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Felt like jumping in to this one for a minute...

6. No matter what someone says you don't have to respond with negative energy. I mean, you can choose to if that's how you want to play your character, we all have free will. But even if you feel like someone is pushing your buttons you can still respond with love. No matter how you respond, though, it says more about you than the source of your irk. And that's something I've had to learn as well, especially living with Steve the Blogger. He stirs my pot all the time.

That's all. Carry on then.

Some people have said that the post "10 Reasons" has negative energy.

I'm fine with the post but also fine with someone replying back with the same conviction.

I don't blame you for your protective nurturing instinct though...

Nice bear bomb Steve... Like I have said, you have big nads for this post. Wow.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

What about the poor vegetables? You don't feel sorry for them when you are munching them to death? Or do you feel that just because they aren't red-blooded they deserve to be treated with less respect and little compassion? huh? Huh?

BTW, I think that would be a great blog. Though I doubt people are as emotionally invested in 'meat eating being evil' as they are in 'the rightness of their religious beliefs'.

Haha, true, true.

Quite a predicament. Eating a vegetable is equivalent to eating a foetus in some ways!

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by Plato

Haha, true, true.

Quite a predicament. Eating a vegetable is equivalent to eating a foetus in some ways!

Eating a fetus? That's disgusting! New Blog Post Suggestion "All Vegetarians are Fetus Eaters!"

See I think people who eat meat are actually more aware than vegetarians, because vegetarians only label animals as being alive, while meat eaters realize that vegetables are alive as well. Under a microscope the cells of a plant are alive, as are the cells of an animal, so what's the difference?

(Just stirring the pot. )

[Tayrak]

Anything I eat is already dead, I'm trying not be wasteful.

"Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" See, I promote animal wellfare..

Tarak

[Plato]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Eating a fetus? That's disgusting! New Blog Post Suggestion "All Vegetarians are Fetus Eaters!"

See I think people who eat meat are actually more aware than vegetarians, because vegetarians only label animals as being alive, while meat eaters realize that vegetables are alive as well. Under a microscope the cells of a plant are alive, as are the cells of an animal, so what's the difference?

(Just stirring the pot. )

Well, a response could be that animals are sentient and many farm animals suffer unneccessarily. That is the only difference. In response somebody could argue that they wouldn't even have been bred if it wasn't for farming, but Derek Parfit's "non-identity problem" The non-identity problem is able to demonstrate the invalidity of that argument.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Tayrak

Anything I eat is already dead, I'm trying not be wasteful.

Hehe, yeah.

But if there is no demand for animal products (i.e. consumers stop buying meat) then production of meat will be reduced equally. But sure, if you run over an animal with your car, you might as well not waste it!

[Tayrak]

But if there is no demand for animal products (i.e. consumers stop buying meat) then production of meat will be reduced equally

And I will be very hungry. 'Cept I can grow my own, so I'm not too worried.

Tayrak

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Tayrak

And I will be very hungry.

Why? Are you allergic to eating non-meat products? My greatest sympathies to you Trainwreck

[TheOpusMovieCommunity]

That was a VERY interesting post. I was raised catholic, but I never listened to any of it. It was mindlessness. The point I really like that Steve made was "Religions actively promote this weakening process as if it were beneficial, commonly branding it with the word faith. What they’re actually promoting is submission."

That is absolutely true. Just give up your ability to think for yourself, and you're in the club. Thanks for the wonderful post Steve!

[sidelko]

amen


if you read some other books like Power v Force and all the books that follow by David R. Hawkins he has the same argument, and adds that religion is a lower energy level the pure spirituality

Even Ramtha talks about it similar terms without saying so.

[markytom]

Strange read especially with the "in your face" style to rile emotions.

I would recommend to everyone to read a book or two by Joseph Campbell such as The Power of Myth. Campbell shows how mythology has been developed by every human culture - it's built into us. He also shows how Christianity is really just a mish-mash of earlier mythologies. It is very difficult to get away from thinking in terms of mythology which much of the time turns into dogma. This includes science too - evolution, big-bang theory, climate change, etc., become a mythology of sorts to describe "what is" and "where things came from" and too often ends up becoming dogmatic systems. However, to say we shouldn't think in terms of mythology at all is like saying that we shouldn't use language because it can limit or impede our thoughts and ideas. Mythology is built into us.

Are you vegetarian . . . or evil
Can't wait since I whined before about how being vegetarian/non-vegetarian was a poor analogy for light-worker versus dark-worker. I believe that yanking a happily-living carrot out of the ground and cruelly ingesting it is equally as "bad" or "evil" as ripping the charred flesh off the bones of a chicken wing. HA. Our beliefs are arbitrarily chosen and the lines end up often being gray, not black and white. One could come up with endless hypothetical situations where someone with strong beliefs will act like a hypocrite. If you are stout vegetarian would you eat beef jerky if the other option were starvation? How about your 3-year-old child - would you feed your child meat to keep her from dying of starvation? Would you kill your child if it meant that 10 other children would not be killed? How about 1000? Where do you draw the lines? If you ask yourself enough hypotheticals you will find that your beliefs aren't carved in stone, instead you will find that they are fluid and can be changed and rationalized - meaning that they are merely arbitrary. And that's a good thing. And very powerful.

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Felt like jumping in to this one for a minute...


6. No matter what someone says you don't have to respond with negative energy. I mean, you can choose to if that's how you want to play your character, we all have free will. But even if you feel like someone is pushing your buttons you can still respond with love. No matter how you respond, though, it says more about you than the source of your irk. And that's something I've had to learn as well, especially living with Steve the Blogger. He stirs my pot all the time.

That's all. Carry on then.

On the "What's your beef with Christianity?" thread I wrote the following:

For me, no matter what another person believes, I respect that person enough to not insult them. But when it comes to Christianity, it seems this level of respect goes out the window.


I wrote that on May 26th. Steve wrote his post on May 27th.

Gotta tell ya, it was hard for me not to take this personally.

It certainly isn't the first time someone has pressed my buttons, but I've learned that I don't have to dance to someone else's tune like that. And that understanding comes from my faith.

How ironic, huh? An article about how religious people are idiots increases my faith.

Thanks, Steve

[Plato]

Originally Posted by markytom

Are you vegetarian . . . or evil
Can't wait since I whined before about how being vegetarian/non-vegetarian was a poor analogy for light-worker versus dark-worker. I believe that yanking a happily-living carrot out of the ground and cruelly ingesting it is equally as "bad" or "evil" as ripping the charred flesh off the bones of a chicken wing. HA. Our beliefs are arbitrarily chosen and the lines end up often being gray, not black and white. One could come up with endless hypothetical situations where someone with strong beliefs will act like a hypocrite. If you are stout vegetarian would you eat beef jerky if the other option were starvation? How about your 3-year-old child - would you feed your child meat to keep her from dying of starvation? Would you kill your child if it meant that 10 other children would not be killed? How about 1000? Where do you draw the lines? If you ask yourself enough hypotheticals you will find that your beliefs aren't carved in stone, instead you will find that they are fluid and can be changed and rationalized - meaning that they are merely arbitrary. And that's a good thing. And very powerful.

Fortunately we aren't dealing with absolute right and wrongs here. We're dealing with a specific situation: that animal farming is very damaging to the environment, most of our crops go to feeding those animals, and the land taken up by animal farming could be put to much better use. "It tastes good" is the only defence of eating meat and as far as moral arguments go, not a very strong one.

[Tayrak]

Originally Posted by Plato

Fortunately we aren't dealing with absolute right and wrongs here. We're dealing with a specific situation: that animal farming is very damaging to the environment, most of our crops go to feeding those animals, and the land taken up by animal farming could be put to much better use. "It tastes good" is the only defence of eating meat and as far as moral arguments go, not a very strong one.

What exactly would you see as much better use of land? Sure we need more factories and shoppingmalls and if not then let's let the land go fallow and what will happen then?

But really, really and truly, you believe that I should not have the right to my own lifestyle because you think that your way of life is superior to mine. You're right, I'm wrong, no in between 'cause you say so. And further I shouldn't have a say. My choice is bend over and take it. Funny, meat eaters don't try to convert veggy munchers, we let you go merrily along your way, though we think that the lack of protein could be a problem.

The point is "Do we no longer have the right to think as we want, live as we want, on the whims of others?"

Answer carefully.

Tayrak

[Plato]

Actually I don't give a damn personally. I eat meat! I tried being vegan for 30 days for health reasons and it was cool but I eat some meat now. However, if I was a "good" person I would say it is wrong to eat meat for the reasons presented.

[Tayrak]

We were hijacking the thread anyway, lol. I have no problem with veggy people and I do understand where they're coming from. But Trainwreck? now that was uncalled for. roflmao
I haven't been wrecked in longer thanI can remember, maybe time for it again!


Back to you Steve...

Tayrak

[Brutha]

Maybe you should put a disclaimer on your provocative posts Steve. Not that I think it'd do much good. It's like those idiotic warning labels you Americans put on everything.

There actually is one: It says Personal Development for Smart people

I wonder what you say about these religions?

For example

Feminism
To assert any difference between men and women is a crime. To blithely deny it is correct because its...

Haven't you read "How to be a Man"?

Erin, you're a psychic medium. Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried channeling Jesus? Steve, in the article, talks about JC being a made up character. I should think that would be easy to verify for a Psychic medium, no?

It's a matter of perspective. From a subjective reality perspective Jesus is definitly made up.

[Steve Pavlina]

Apparently the Pope's version of "How to Be a Man" is to treat women like lesser beings.

He says that if women try to become priests, they'll be excommunicated:
Vatican: Excommunication for female priests - Yahoo! News

The cowardice continues...

[SomeRandomGuy]

I didn't make it all the way through the thread, so I apologize if I am echoing sentiments expressed by others.

I thought this was an excellent article, perhaps one of the best Steve has ever written. Do I agree with everything he says in the article? Absolutely not. Does it make me think? Absolutely. In my opinion that is the greatest gift a Self-Development writer can give his/her audience; an article that forces the reader to step outside of his/her current beliefs and think.

The tone Steve used in this article was very controversial. I repeatedly saw in this thread questions about whether the tone helped anyone. In my opinion, the tone Steve used is exactly what was needed. This is an explosive topic, and Steve's tone was like a slap in the face that seems to have caused everyone to either have a very strong emotional reaction or to recognize the need to do some reflection regarding his/her own thoughts and beliefs (or both).

On a side note, there seems to be a lot of other forum members who saw this article at being focused on Catholicism, and not truly representing other Christian denominations or other religions. I grew up Protestant, and to me, many of Steve's points were applicable to the churches I am familiar with. Obviously I can't say that all denominations and religions can be covered by what Steve wrote, as I do not have first hand experience with them all. My experience, however, with organized religion makes it seem that Steve knows what he is talking about.

I have a lot of thinking to do after reading this article. I see this as an opportunity for some self-realization and personal growth. That is why I visit this website, and as always, Steve has not disappointed. Thanks for being willing to write such an unpopular article.

[jimmybird]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

10 Reasons You Should Never Have a Religion

As a fairly new devotee of Steve's writings, thank goodness I finally saw Steve's humanity shine through in his angry (translation: "unprocessed" past hurt) and sarcastic (translation: consequent vindictiveness) speech about the evils of religion. I was beginning to wonder if Steve had everything in life figured out. Finally I see that Steve is just as human as the rest of us !(sarcasm mine).....and someone who obviously deeply desired spirituality at a young age and discovered, quite accurately and sadly, that the catholic hierarchy available to him with this charge failed truly and demonstrably. As an inactive catholic myself (not for or against the church)...I empathize with his outlook and his conveyed broad brush approach that religion is a pariah...however, for me, I simply know several happy, happy people, with deep spirituality and a love for their religion that still do think for themselves.

The reality is that there will always be a plethora of Scribes and Pharisees in any religious matrix that will unknowingly murder the yearnings of desirous believers....there will always be the Power Hungry types that endeavor to persuade the naive that GroupThink is what God wants (even though Christ said that for specifically His Disciples, this is NOT the way to follow Him).....St. Paul said it best: "We all stumble" in our spiritual journey and that includes the ignoramuses and the hypocrites that make up the leadership of organized religion....

I think Steve is closer to God than he may realize..World watch out if and when he gets to that marker in his life of reconciling (forgiving in his heart) the failings of his early spiritual direction as he finds that God actually does love him incredibly....beyond his wildest imagination....