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| | #301 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1
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I'll admit...I kind of cringed when I saw the title of this article, but I read it with an open mind. I've been a fan of Mr. Pavlina for months now (really enjoyed the Raw Food Diet series)...sure, I've had a few disagreements here and there, but I could appreciate what he was trying to do: make the world a better (and smarter) place. It seemed like he put in a level of care and attention to detail in his editorials that seemed virtually unmatched in the blogosphere. On the other hand, this article bares no comparison to previous entires (in my opinion) ...it's filled with emotion, no second point of view/counterargument, and no apparent sense of a higher meaning/purpose to its reader. It was like reading a "stream of consciousness"...but not in a good way considering the volatility of the subject. Ultimately, I'm sure Mr. Pavlina thought he was doing the world good (which is commendable) by publishing his article, but were insults (direct and indirect) of others (the "dummies") entirely necessary? Furthermore, the article instantly puts religious folk on the defensive (thus not receptive to the article) and forces everyone into the us-vs-them (conscious vs. unconscious; faith vs. no faith) situation that "is totally incongruent with conscious living" according to the same article. This couldn't possibly be the desired result of Mr. Pavlina who strives to guide us all to a higher level of consciousness. Also, I won't bother trying to retort with how I feel about the actual content of the subject right now because this is not the place to do so (i.e., I'll blog about it some other time). I believe a more well-mannered article would have garnered a more effective response/change among those spiritual "dummies", but thank you for spending your time on the article, Mr. Pavlina. P.S. I didn't read most of the comments left (due to the sheer volume), so hopefully I'm not regurgitating anything that's already been said! |
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| | #302 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Australia
Posts: 1,130
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You argue that you don't own this point of view, but you still consciously chose to express it. You are responsible for that expression. If we wanted to read simplified diatribes against religion, there are countless sites out there dedicated to it. You can do better. P.S. I have no religion, not that that matters.
__________________ When people see things as beautiful, ugliness is created. When people see things as good, evil is created. When the way is forgotten, 'morality' and 'piety' need to be taught. -Dao De Jing, Chapter 2 | |
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| | #303 (permalink) | |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 18
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I'm also on an email support group for picky eaters, many of whom would starve if they didn't eat meat. In those cases, it seems to be more of a sensory issue. Many people on the list seem unable to tolerate the smell and/or texture of a lot of fruits and vegetables. That certainly seems to be the case for a lot of foods with me. | |
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| | #304 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,688
| Quote:
I would say THAT post would require even more gonads than the religious one.
__________________ Paul Piotrowski LightworkerWorld.com - Get Your Free Listing in My Lightworker Directory Mindset of Making Money Online Fitness, Health and Healing Blog | |
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| | #305 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Delhi
Posts: 617
| Quote:
Quote:
M.K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence | ||
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| | #308 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member | Quote:
Quote:
*ducks*
__________________ Pax et bonum, Brandon Creator Spiritus Blog and forum discussing living a Christ-centered life | ||
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| | #309 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33
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Much more elegant than my feeble attempt - well done. Steve should demand a refund if he paid a ghost writer for this. I won't go so far as to suggest Steve owes anyone an apology - I'm sure he could care less - but it is so poorly done it tarnishes his name in my book. I usually don't come here for comic relief - I can get that elsewhere. Kent | |
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| | #310 (permalink) |
| Administrator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 3,595
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So many assumptions about motivation and intent. So many conclusions drawn on false assumptions. It might be wise to assume nothing, find out the truth, and then decide how to think and feel.
__________________ Erin Pavlina, Intuitive Counselor, Psychic Medium Spiritual Wisdom for Conscious People Blog (Twitter Page, Facebook Page) Get a reading | Read Testimonials | Free Newsletter Instantly get my new ebook, 10 Ways to Raise Your Vibration in Under 10 Minutes, when you sign up for my newsletter. |
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| | #311 (permalink) |
| Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,139
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It's hard for me to put this into words, but I think the post has even benefited me. I "gave up" religion about 15-16 years ago, so I didn't think it would have any effect on me. However, this past week, I've noticed that when talking about religion to others, I've been much more forthcoming, open and volunteering about not being a Christian or Muslim at all. I've lived in the American bible belt for a good number of years so I was always careful about how I talked about religion. I never hide that I was an atheist (which I was until a year ago), but I rarely volunteered that I was if the discussion turned to religion. However this past week, I've twice engaged in discussions of religion with people in my city and I felt a lot more open in volunteering what I believed. I guess seeing them as "morons" for believing in something led by a huge power group helps re-frame the situation Last edited by seeker5; 06-02-2008 at 03:46 AM. |
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| | #312 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 40
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I haven't finished this article, and maybe I should before posting, but the tone of it so far is such that I couldn't help but write. Seriously, last week, I finished "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. If you want a fantastic critic of religion and why it isn't rationally grounded, how it came to be and still is, and the basis of morality etc., read this. Steve's article (so far) was just bitter/offensive. Not for me personally, since I'm not so easily offended, but it was just... an attack. Quote:
Anyways, I have said my peace. That article, which I'm off to finish up was disappointing. Fortunately I had read "The God Delusion" and I know how a discussion on religion, it's merits/relevence should really be undertaken... I hope this was just a bad day, and not as anyone has suggested on these forums, a post with alterior motives. P. | |
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| | #314 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
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Lol...This blog post did exactly what it was planned to do. It made everyone think. It made everyone respond. Some responded based on emotions, others not. I still believe in God, but I can definitely understand a lot of points Steve makes. Ofcoarse, there are people in religion that don't fit what was said in the article, but that's not really the point of the article. All I realy have to say is...Just think a little more before you respond to this article. Last edited by Hoamaru; 06-03-2008 at 01:04 PM. |
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| | #315 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Finland
Posts: 10
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Lol. Nice provocative post. But wrong: of course you gotta join a church. Look for example here: Jedi Church
__________________ GameProducer.net - My Blog |
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| | #316 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33
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Realizing essentially no one here agrees with Steve's style - I think what this writing clearly indicates is that even those with a tremendous level of consciousness such as Steve can still have very toxic feelings/emotions when raised in a legalistic environment. This section was especially troubling: Quote:
Call me crazy - but I contend Mother Theresa was more compassionate than Steve Pavlina. So, maybe she really wasn't very religious - I could discuss that issue - but she lived her life completely for the cause of being Christ to the poor and downtrodden. Again - I'll listen to the argument that toxic religion - which is Steve's upbringing - is not too compassionate. But, true followers of Jesus have a strong leaning toward being advocates for the downtrodden - with no strings attached. | |
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| | #317 (permalink) | ||
| Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bacau, Romania
Posts: 45
| Quote:
I'd like to quote Master Tolstoy: Quote:
There is no easy way to do this.... I discovered it recently talking with an old woman in the train. We engaged in a nice conversation and at one point I steered the discussion to religion. She was a Christian-Orthodox, believing in her Church. All I tried to do is point out certain inconsistencies between what Christ taught and what Church permits and even encourages. She was left speechless. She knew she could not contradict me. And yet, I felt I hurt her somehow. And I regretted that. At one point she took advantage of a phone call I received and pretended to go to sleep. Who am I to wake up people? | ||
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| | #318 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Amsterdam, NL (originally Lisbon, PT)
Posts: 16
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You know, this post... made me guffaw, then I looked slightly baffled, then slightly guilty. As someone whose personal opinion is that religion/faith is a form of mental illness, and who watches the believers around him for signs that they may be "led astray", actively contributing to that "deconversion" when possible... of course I was amused by this article - it echoed of what I sometimes feel like shouting, the cheap shots I feel like taking... but resist doing so. From whence cometh the bafflement and guilt? Well... fundamentally because after the elation of the bald-faced article, that initial "damn!", I thought.. wait a second, take a believer, any believer... imagine him teetering (fully "under the influence" people are almost impervious to any argument) - will he be more or less likely to be deconverted? My answer, for my own simulated model of believers, would be less - it would drive people into defensive denial. So, funny as it was, I believe this article to be counterproductive to my objectives. Which aren't necessarily Steve's. Pluswhich... dropping a nuke in the pot is, admittedly, a way to stir it. |
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| | #319 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1
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I am surpried no one has challenged this ridiculous post. I have written a rebutal on my own site |
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| | #320 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 104
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I was refered to this blog by a friend. I have to say, Bravo. As someone who went to Catholic schools for twelve years (soon to be sixteen -- go go postgrad), this article sums up my thoughts on organized religions. Often times in religions classes, I would question and prod and challenge the teacher. Ultimately, every thing came down to "Chris, to those with faith, no answer is necessary; and to those without, no answer is possible". I found that response extremely unsatisfying. It's a cop out. I do think answers are possible. If I have faith in anything, its in science, logic, and reason. Humans haven't been on this earth a very long time, and already much of the religious mythology has already been debunked by science and logic. I see no reason for this trend to not continue. The article made me think of Occum's Razor for some reason. "All things being equal, the simplist solution is best". Perhaps, Steve needs to make an eleventh reason. Organized religions are just simply unnecessary. Why do we need religions to be good people? We don't! Many of the moral codes within religions already exist in social contract theory. We have the rules already, why can't we eliminate the excess with an Occum's Razor principle? To me, I have always viewed religion as a tool. When humanity was immaute, religion became the means through which people dealt with and understood the world. Humanity has evolved and so has our consciousness and understanding of ourselves and the world arround us. I think there has been a paradigm shift, where Science is/has (and I would argue needs to) replaced religion. Eventually something may replace that, but science really is the best option we have at this point. Does it require faith, sure! Faith isn't a bad thing as long as its grounded in something logical. Anyways, first post ever. I really felt the need to espouse my views. This is a subject that I feel passionate about. |
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| | #321 (permalink) | |
| Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 5,004
| Quote:
Atheists generally don't like the belief in "oneness with the source". They also usually don't like psychics.
__________________ I am always open for feedback on my posts. If your feedback would go offtopic feel free to send me a Personal Message. My posts generally don't contain medical or legal advice, if you have a problem seek the opinion of an expert Talking about this in terms of “bad news” or “bad judgment by business leaders” seems archaic. It’s like describing World War One as “a serious diplomatic concern.” Bruce Sterling about the financial crisis. | |
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| | #323 (permalink) | |
| Administrator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 3,875
| Quote:
There are quite a number of philosophical positions besides Christian and atheist, including the position of not claiming ownership of any position at all.
__________________ Steve Pavlina www.StevePavlina.com (Twitter page, Facebook page) Get my book Personal Development for Smart People I'm a human alarm clock. I awaken people who are sleeping through life. Then I duck. | |
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| | #325 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bacau, Romania
Posts: 45
| Quote:
I recommend reading this chapter on CHRISTIANITY MISUNDERSTOOD BY MEN OF SCIENCE. You don't have to read the whole thing... the problem is explained in the first couple of paragraphs. In the end religion has more to do with Science then the scientists might like to admit. Last edited by pdamoc; 06-03-2008 at 10:09 PM. | |
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| | #326 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 164
| Quote:
From your site Alfred: "However, I also realise that this is an attempt by you to generate more traffic to your site." Umm, and exactly what were you doing??? You could easily have given your comments here, like everyone else. Tayrak | |
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| | #328 (permalink) |
| Senior Member |
That rebuttal...seriously I'm keeping that for humor. That's all I can say.
__________________ Pax et bonum, Brandon Creator Spiritus Blog and forum discussing living a Christ-centered life |
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| | #329 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Rafael, CA
Posts: 4,894
| Quote:
It seems like most people have just been crying about the tone of Steve's post instead of challenging any of the actual content. Let's get it on! Quote:
In fact, in the article he clearly expresses that to identify oneself with a specific, limiting belief system is disempowering, a bane to personal growth. Did you even actually read the article? Quote:
A false prophet, as you use the term, sounds more like the pastors of the Christian Megachurchs who are trying to start WWIII. You know, because they think that's what God wants! Using God's name in vain means just that: It's to use the name of God for hateful, destructive, mean spirited interests. A false prophet is someone who claims to be speaking for God, but instead of preaching love and compassion he or she preaches violence and hate. Like Hitler! Guess what religion Hitler was? Yep, Christian. "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." The Lord works in mysterious ways, eh?! Remember, Hitler was only defending himself against those evil Jews. Wait, it seems I've heard that somewhere else recently. Gosh, where was that? Quote:
A mute could talk after having the demon driven out (Matthew 9:32). A "demon-possessed" man who was blind and mute is cured by Jesus (Matthew 12:22). A demon caused seizures (epilepsy) in a boy (Matthew 17:14-18). A group of spirits caused a man to be insane (Mark 5:1-13). A spirit crippled a woman (Luke 13:11). The Earth was created in seven days? Where did Dinosaur bones come from? God wants us to stone adulterers? On a side note, are you this obsessed with all history books, or just ones that say they will save your soul? Because I can recommend some good history books to you, but they only teach history, they don't claim to be a free pass into Heaven. Quote:
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How exactly would you define fornication? Is that any time that people have sex outside of marriage? What about masturbation? Is that fornication too? What about sex after divorce? What about sex after annulment? Quote:
How much it says about you that you are so ready and willing to bash prisoners. How sad that is. Wouldn't God want you to minster to people in jail, instead of calling them names? You do know that Jesus was a criminal, right? Quote:
It sounds to me like science knows a whole lot more than you give it credit for. Quote:
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Your puny human mind that I created has angered me! Rawr!! Maybe God is a Velociraptor. They were pretty smart dinosaurs, you know. Quote:
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Without God, murder is forbidden by human law; it is only for those acting on behalf of God, that everything is permitted. Quote:
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| | #330 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 104
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Padmoc: I don't see how this shows organized religion as being absolutely necessary. Perhaps you could enlighten me. Do you not think Human being aren't intelligent and sophisticated enough to figure it out without the aid of organized religion? "The man who holds the divine theory of life recognizes life not in his own individuality, and not in societies of individualities (in the family, the clan, the nation, the tribe, or the government), but in the eternal undying source of life--in God; and to fulfill the will of God he is ready to sacrifice his individual and family and social welfare. The motor power of his life is love. And his religion is the worship in deed and in truth of the principle of the whole--God. " It's comments like this that make me cringe. Are we really talking about the same religion that has done such heinous things as run the crusades or outlaw homosexual marriage? Love being the motor power behind that? I wince when I read stuff like this. Why would god even require someone to sacrifice his or her individual self, falmily, or social welfare? Wouldn't God find it a crime to sacrifice oneself, and especially another person!? I don't have a philosophical problem with the core message of religions. I have a problem with the perversion of their implementation. It's the organization in organized religion that makes them dangerous and against human growth. So I ask again, why is organized religion SPECIFICALLY necessary? Last edited by Liminal Chris; 06-03-2008 at 11:47 PM. |
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| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| 10 Reasons You Should Never Get a Job (Blog) | qed | Steve Pavlina | 49 | 07-02-2008 11:06 PM |
| Reasons not to go to college | Lupe | Business & Financial | 27 | 06-15-2008 08:40 PM |
| Ask Steve - What Religion Are You? (Blog) | qed | Steve Pavlina | 8 | 01-04-2008 03:56 AM |
| What are your reasons?? | doogatyee | Psychic & Paranormal | 3 | 06-21-2007 06:24 AM |
| 10 reasons you should never get a job | eastcoastgirl | Steve Pavlina | 30 | 01-30-2007 10:49 PM |
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