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Old 05-27-2008, 01:11 AM
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Default For Love of Evil

The more I learn about the intersection of religion into politics the more deeply it disturbs me. And the more it disturbs me the more I don't know what to do about it.

I'm starting this thread to brainstorm through some ideas on how to love evil. Not just ideologically, but in real, everyday life.

Here's an example: YouTube - Rapture Ready: The Christians United for Israel Tour

These are groups of so-called Christians whose purpose is to instigate a preemptive war against Iran for no other reason than that Iran is a Muslim nation. These Christians believe the attack in Iran will bring about the apocalypse, and they are excited for the apocalypse to arrive.

They believe that the Antichrist will become recognizable when he negotiates a peace accord in the Middle East. What a perversion of truth. Black is white. Up is down. Peace means war. Reason means you are the Antichrist.

These things, these people put me into a horrible place emotionally. I want them to wake up and to stop causing so much pain and suffering. But it's been years and they never seem to wake up.

They are too afraid to see that everyone is created equal. They are too brainwashed to believe that another religion could be as valid as their own.

And I want to tell them that there is nothing to fear, that all their violence is for nothing, but when pain and loss exist it's not as easy to convince people there is nothing to fear as it is to convince them that there is something to lose.

So how can we react to people like this existing? Besides just pretending that they don't?

I'm so frustrated with the ideas of setting an example, of trying to be the change I want to see. I learn more and more but it seems like ignorance remains at an all time high.

If I saw a murderer breaking into my neighbors house with a butcher knife it would be cowardly to ignore it, right? But make no mistake, Bush is a murderer. And our neighbors are Iraqi.

Erin once wrote about "Fighting Supreme Evil."

Fighting Supreme Evil

So how do you love evil?

Quote:
"Bless you," I said. He recoiled. "God bless you, Evil." He stumbled like he was in pain. "I give you Love. Unconditional. I give you Love."
Bless them? Love them unconditionally?

How far can that notion be taken? Should I love a murderer who is in the middle of murdering someone? How about a rapist who is in the middle of raping someone?

How could I ignore those things? I know I wouldn't.

So how can I love politicians and ministers who are calling upon our troops to murder Muslims?

For love of evil. What I wouldn't give to be able to truly love evil. How simple that life must be.

When I googled, "For Love of Evil," since the phrase has been on my mind all weekend, I ended up with a Piers Anthony book and a Steve Pavlina post.

For Love of Evil

The post talks about loving the different parts of yourself that you might normally label as evil.

But my issues aren't with loving different parts of myself. My issues are with trying to love the politicians who are promoting violence, and the religious fanatics who are trying to bring about the apocalypse.

Only through the looking glass of subjective reality could all this evil, violence and ignorance really be a part of myself. But since I would do anything to rid myself of seeing those things, it's worth the introspection.

The brand of evil is American imperialism, PNAC style. It's propelled by several core beliefs, as far as I can see:
  1. The belief that Christians are better than Muslims.
  2. The belief that American's lives are worth more than other human lives.
  3. The belief that God's plan can be derailed.
  4. The belief that the Christian religion needs defended.
  5. The belief that the Jewish homeland, Israel, needs defended.
  6. The belief that in order for there to be good, there must be evil.

But in reality, to attack other nations preemptively is murder. There's no way around it.

Quote:
Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.
- President Eisenhower

But these Christians are willing to do it anyway.

They have a deep seated need to find a villain. If they find a villain it gives them a purpose.


Do I do those things as well? Are these core beliefs that I also hold? Is the fact that I keep seeing these murderers reappear in my own reality an indication that I am holding some of the same core beliefs as them? Does their ignorance and violence simply reflect my own?


Here are my core beliefs in those same areas.
  1. I believe religions should be peaceful and harmonious.
  2. I believe everyone's lives are equal.
  3. I believe that God does not have a set plan, and that we choose our own fates.
  4. I believe that no religion based in truth needs defended.
  5. I believe Israel can defend itself, not only in a first strike scenario, but in a second strike scenario.
  6. I believe peace, harmony and joy are the highest offerings of this life. I believe in the harvest, in the abundance of nature, and in loving life. I believe hating other religions does not contribute to joy.

My beliefs are very different from theirs. Which then brings me back to the same question: What is the proper ethical / moral response to these people?

Anything that challenges their beliefs will simply be labeled as being Satanic. There can be no open dialog or intellectual debate - and violence will always be used as a trump card against reason.

But that is truly the nature of our reality it seems. When pain and loss appear to exist it is not as easy to convince someone that there is nothing to fear as it is to convince them that they have something to lose.

Maybe I need to forgive them right to their faces. Go to their stupid megachurchs and directly tell them, "I forgive you."

I forgive you for hating the Muslims.
I forgive you for believing God's plan could be set off course.
I forgive you for your complete lack of faith.
I forgive you killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.
I forgive you for persecuting homosexuals.
I forgive you for trying to find a villain so desperately.


I'd probably just get kicked right out. But it's the only proper response I know.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:56 AM
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Well, Dan, the "stupid superchurch" thing isn't really coming from a position of love or forgiveness is it?

I think it needs to be more bottom-up; we've got let the people that are ready to leave out of the mindset, and with no foundation, it will be much harder for the leaders to lead.

How can this be done, though? Regular effort. Brutha said something about people assembling every Monday for the fall of the Berlin Wall. I'd happily put in a weekly effort if it meant freeing the minds of those conservatives who we think are the main problem - they're doing the same aren't they?

They have many many passionate people out there giving documentation, and they scream it from the television and it even permeates all national holidays. When we have more people saying I don't do Christmas and I'm anti-war, pro-peace we're getting the momentum going.

I'll often open up conversation in obscure places about these topics- the poker table, dinner, family meetings, etc. I don't mind being labeled the crazy hippie just as much as conservatives don't mind being labeled the crazy Christian, because I truly believe that what I'm addressing is the right way to go.

I'm open to more ideas - but if we could pool effort and resources and ideas to stop more deaths, I'd be elated!
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Old 05-27-2008, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Should I love a murderer who is in the middle of murdering someone? How about a rapist who is in the middle of raping someone?
Great question. Very big question I have asked many times.

First of all I think the crucial point here is that Love is a feeling not an action.

If someone is murdering someone else, and you are in the moment, and you have practiced being loving throughout your life, you will know what to do. And I bet that you will intervene. And I bet that you will create the best possible outcome of that situation, I bet that your love for both the murderer and the victim will create the best situation that is possible given the circumstances.

Love does not mean non-violence.

Non-violence is a mental concept. Love is a feeling. They are apples and oranges.

Action flows from the moment, and love gives birth to right action. You can't pre-plan what is right, you can't pre-plan what is loving. All you can do is feel the love in the eternal moment and then act without inhibition in a loving way.

All of these paradoxes come about because people think in terms of action -> reaction.

You think, "If this happens, how do I react?"

This paradigm is incomplete. Right action cannot be predicted, but it can flow naturally when it has been practiced.

So starting with small evils, you practice loving them in the moment. You practice forgiving and loving those things in yourself that are evil. With this love comes action - love does not mean passivity. Love is a feeling, not an action.

If you practice love in the moment over and over, one day you find yourself in a moment face to face with evil, and you act from the moment and do your best to love them.

The world is not perfect and good will not win an absolute victory over bad. But we can be as effective as possible and that is what loving is all about - a perfectly pure love gives birth to the perfect action in every moment of one's life.

It's not an easy answer but it's one that everyday I become more convinced of, because I see it in my own life. The answer is love in the moment.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

It doesn't say that you must hate the tyrants. Just that you must bleed for liberty.

This is both the curse and the blessing of every Earthling. The challenge is learning to refresh the tree of liberty, while at the same time feeling only love for all mankind. I truly think Thomas Jefferson felt that love when he wrote that. He wasn't advocating hate; he was advocating courage born from unconditional love.

Last edited by yossarian : 05-27-2008 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 05-27-2008, 02:19 AM
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Hey Dan, don't forgive evil people, don't love evil people, hate them and fight them back . It keeps things so simple, why complicate them?

Choose the most practical path instead of drowning yourself in deep philosophy.


As for "love of evil", hell why love those who are doing bad things to me and to those around me? This is all too much gibberish for me. You will never be able to change everything around you, so why do you care so much (i see so many topics of yours "denouncing" so many bad things/people happening).

Just let them be. Unless your ultimate goal is to "rid the world of all evil" (in this case you will spend a lifetime pursuing it and will of course never accomplish the goal), don't care about all this. Just do your thing, follow your goals, be happy in your life.

Of course being aware of everything happening around us is important but hey if it doesn't directly harm you, whatever... an earthquake in the other side of the world, didn't harm you did it? Sooo.. whatever!







This post was a bit sarcastic as i'm aware that my opinion (although everything i stated above i do really believe in and try to follow) is completely the opposite of Dan's and i would accomplish nothing here than to have some fun for me and possibly get some replies that would lead to endless discussions. Don't take it too seriously as i'm not.. just enjoying myself a little.
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Old 05-27-2008, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan View Post
They have a deep seated need to find a villain. If they find a villain it gives them a purpose..
Dan, this line really jumped out at me. Can you see something for yourself in this?
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Old 05-27-2008, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela View Post
Dan, this line really jumped out at me. Can you see something for yourself in this?
I definitely do see it, I just don't know what to do about it.

They initiate violence. I don't see that as me creating a villain, but as them making themselves villainous.

Do you see it differently?
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Old 05-27-2008, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan View Post
They have a deep seated need to find a villain. If they find a villain it gives them a purpose..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela View Post
Dan, this line really jumped out at me. Can you see something for yourself in this?
They think, The world would be perfect if everyone was Christian and lived by Christian values.

I think, The world would be perfect if everyone was non-violent and respected one another and nature.

Are those just two different sides of the same coin?

Isn't one of those statements more accurate than the other?
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan View Post
They think the world would be perfect if everyone was Christian and lived by their preset queue of Christian morals.

I think the world would be perfect is everyone was non-violent and respected one another and nature.

Are those just two different sides of the same coin?

Isn't one of those statements is more accurate than the other?
Yep, Christians have a huge following and a 2000+ year old text which gives them validity - where's the validity in your statement?

What should we be building our foundation on, in other words? Because Dan says, we should respect equality?

People need to be led by the hand, and that's just what Christianity does. Mind leading us by the hand here? It's gonna take more than short logic to switch people over. We've got to fight the lies with great depths of truth.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:07 AM
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Hey who deleted my post? Has this become a disctatorship where only the new age "love and peace" ones can give an opinion or what?
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan View Post
Isn't one of those statements more accurate than the other?
Do you have this same problem with other people who disagree with you?

Like I'm sure you must know people with whom you disagree, but you don't find them villainous. These Christians you're talking about are just extreme versions of people who disagree with you.

I guess your fundamental question is, "How do I learn to accept the unacceptable?"

One way is definitely to try and understand the unacceptable, to understand why they have the delusion they have, to recognize that you also have delusions which you are unaware of, to recognize that we are all flawed without exception. Some more than others, but we are still all flawed. You either condemn those less flawed than you, or you recognize that acceptance is better.

One common path is to move from understanding -> acceptance -> forgiveness -> love. Is that something you have tried?
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yossarian View Post

I guess your fundamental question is, "How do I learn to accept the unacceptable?"

One common path is to move from understanding -> acceptance -> forgiveness -> love. Is that something you have tried?
Not really.

I've basically just been learning as much as possible the last few years. Not much beyond that. Just trying to understand how things / society work.

In certain parts of my life I'm gone from understanding -> accepting / finding my role to impact positive change. In other areas, not so much.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:45 AM
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Dan, it seems to me that you get very outraged towards people, and towards groups of people, and that in effect you do sort of "villainize" them. That's not to say I condone the actions and beliefs of the people you are outraged by, or that you should condone them or love them or anything, really. I hear you saying you want to find a way to love these people who outrage you, or in some other way to be effective.

What I'm asking you to try on is: is it exactly the tendency you are outraged about -- thinking that the other person is wrong, evil, bad, and *should* be other than what they are -- that keeps you from either generating love or being effective in making a difference in the matter? That's the way it often goes -- you can't see it if you don't have it.

It is really clear to me that making a positive difference in the world is one of your highest priorities -- if not your highest. I acknowledge you for your commitment. And here you are on this personal development board. Do you think it's worth trying on, the possibility that you are related to the people who make you so upset, in a very profound way?

I find myself talking on eggshells with you a little bit, because I am concerned about upsetting you with what I say. (oops! I guess I have something to look at, too!)

Lots of love,
Angela
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:57 AM
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Ok so it wasn't either Dan nor Angela. Maybe Dave Kaminsky? I wouldn't be surprised... judging from previous experience, the guy loves deleting posts for not much reason.


Whoever deleted my first post in this thread please reveal yourself and tell me why you did it. There was absolutely NO REASON to delete it.
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Old 05-27-2008, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela View Post
Dan, it seems to me that you get very outraged towards people, and towards groups of people, and that in effect you do sort of "villainize" them.
I get outraged by people murdering each other, sure. And when those people are trying to bring on the apocalypse, yes, it annoys me.

I'm not being sarcastic there. That honestly appears to be the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela View Post
I hear you saying you want to find a way to love these people who outrage you, or in some other way to be effective.
Yes. I do want to find a way to stop being outraged by all the people who are not living ethically.

I think I even remember having this same conversation here previously. This really is a recurring theme for me. I promise someday I'll stop bringing it up, once I work through it all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela View Post
What I'm asking you to try on is: is it exactly the tendency you are outraged about -- thinking that the other person is wrong, evil, bad, and *should* be other than what they are -- that keeps you from either generating love or being effective in making a difference in the matter?
Does my outrage keep me from generating love? Yes.

I suppose that's one of those binary choices. At any given moment you could be either be generating love or you could sitting there outraged, right? The opportunity cost for doing one is always that you could be doing the other.

I have a fear that if I choose to generate love all day without enough analysis or forethought that I'll go down the wrong path in life.

Here is an example to illustrate. Let's say I decide to work for an investment bank. I love my job, and I think I'm doing good for people, helping them manage their savings, etc. But it turns out that the investment bank is making risky investments with their assets and they default on everything Enron stye.

I guess it wouldn't be my fault per se, since I wasn't the one trying to scam people. But I'd just rather not the a cog in some malicious wheel if I can avoid it.

After really investing myself in a couple careers where I spent a few years only to realize that I was only furthering the interests and lining the pocketbook of God knows who, I've really been trying a lot harder to research all the different industries and financial systems to figure out how they all work.

And therein lies the problem. When you start to really research things, they are all screwed up. And I do see a lot of villains. And a lot of unnecessary victims too, sadly.

I can especially see why Steve says to never get a job. As soon as you get one you lose the ability to see whose interests you are really furthering.

I work for a non-profit right now. My boss drives a $141k Porsche and wears a $14k leather trench coat. That's tax money, creatively funneled here through our company lobbyists and state contracts.

Our non-profit actually has more lobbyists than programmers, even though we're a web startup. Lobbyists are very, very effective. Our small company has gone a long way our limited political connections. Imagine what the political connections that Hagee / AIPAC have can do.

Sometimes I feel like I have Will Hunting syndrome, that I can just see every single negative thing a mile away. Other times the negatives seem so blatantly obvious to me that I'm just wonder if everyone else just has their heads totally buried in sand. What is it that are we all doing here?

This has been a long answer to your simple question, hasn't it? Yes, my outrage keeps me from being in a connected, loving, accepting state at times. Yes, I blame the actions of others for this sometimes, and that is definitely an issue.

So many things seem broken that I am a bit overwhelmed by them all, and I'm not quote sure where to start troubleshooting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela View Post
And here you are on this personal development board. Do you think it's worth trying on, the possibility that you are related to the people who make you so upset, in a very profound way?
I think I have tried the idea on. In my OP I tried to see if I had any core beliefs in common with the group that was making me feel outraged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela View Post
I find myself talking on eggshells with you a little bit, because I am concerned about upsetting you with what I say.
So, I worked in a tech support call center for a few years. The sole goal of the center was to get people connected to the internet.

At one point I was the manager of 350 agents, with access to all their recorded calls from QA, all their employee files, their call stats (average time per call, number of calls taken, etc.)

I cannot tell you how much I learned at that job. Just an unbelievable amount about people, technology and business.

But the main thing I learned was this: There is always a correct answer. It might be easy or it might be complex, but there was always a right or wrong way to get someone online.

On windows 98 with an old modem you had to install winpoet and connect PPPOE that way. On windows XP there was a built in PPPOE connector available in the LAC. On the newer DSL modems the PPPOE shim was built into the modem firmware. Sometimes there were DSL line issues -- those could be diagnosed and repaired by running a NXTT test, then submitting a trouble ticket. Sometimes customers had a phone line installed that was too long, or filters that weren't installed correctly.
There were a lot of variables involved, but it was a finite number. There was always a correct troubleshooting path. Every single time. There was always a best practice to get someone online. The troubleshooting might be complex, or it might have a lot of steps, but it was always there.

In that line of work I saw literally hundreds of tech support agents doing the wrong things over and over again. Installing software where there was a line issue. Trying to log into old modems that didn't even have firmware to log into. Any way the tech support agents could get it wrong, they did, over and over again.

So I spend a lot of time documenting the right answers -- creating a map of the reality of how to get customers online. Then I spent a lot of time training agents to use that map, then more time holding them accountable when they deviated from the troubleshooting.

And it worked. I constantly had the best teams, lowest attrition rates, etc. And it was because I always knew there was a right answer. Not because there needed to be, but because that's just the way reality works.

If the goal is harmony on this planet, there is a correct way to work towards that.

I understand that I can be difficult to debate / argue with. I'm coming at things from a different angle than most people. My aim is to map reality. To find the right answers towards a common dream.

For example, I think Libertarianism can be proven to be the style of governance with the best trade-off between security and freedom. I think an organic vegan diet can be proven to be the healthiest diet, both for a person and for the environment.

I believe in best practices because they work. Because there is a right answer to problems. Because the concept that we should "do no harm" is more than an idea, it's a lifestyle.

Anyway, don't worry about the eggshells. I argue because I want to figure out best answers, not because of anything personal.
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:54 AM
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Dan Linehan, I understand your problem very well. In fact, I faced a very similar issue many years ago. The only thing I can do is tell you how I dealt with it and maybe that’ll assist you a little bit. The truth is that the conclusions I reached while examining this problem were what directly led me to my villainous, or as Steve would call it “darkworker” outlook, which I now possess.

When I was younger I used to get very upset when I heard about people praying on one another and I always wondered why we all just couldn’t get along. However, I realized that this stuff had been going on thousands of years before I was ever on the planet and so I reasoned that if no one else could come up with a solution to completely end all violence and suffering, then I probably wasn’t going come up with a miracle solution either.

It could be argued that the only real way to create a true utopia on earth would be to take away everyone’s free will. That basic human element of perception, priority and choice is the true basis of so much conflict. But this solution seemed even more horrific to me then the problem it was designed to solve.

As you pointed out, this issue can be very frustrating and you end up just rehashing it in your head in an endless loop without finding a reasonable solution. I know this feeling well. It was in response to this problem that I essentially decided that it would be in my personal best interest to just stop caring. I was sick of it. This wasn't making me happy and so from an emotional standpoint, I concluded that apathy was the best policy. You might say that this was a turning point where I began to choose practicality over principle.

From a logical standpoint, I began to question the nature of morality itself. Competition, violence and extreme disagreement seem to be permanent staples within human culture and civilization. Maybe these things were there because they’re supposed to be there? Maybe they’re inevitable. Maybe they served a purpose. Could it be that this world was not really about right and wrong? If I saw the flaws in many organized religions (and I did), why was I still clinging to the basic moral principles that they (at least) claim to embrace? Could these be lies as well? What if this world was not about good and evil, but about predator and victim; a constantly changing and shifting hierarchy system of winners and losers, the successful and the failed? This certainly made more sense from an effective progress standpoint (evolution). What if might (in any way that the word could be reasonably applied) really was right? Is there any more objective (non bias) way to determine who is “right” in a disagreement between people, other than to see who ultimately comes out on top?

The more I thought about this and the more I analyzed the world around me, the more I began to realize that the “goodness” model of philosophy didn’t make any sense. And the more apathetic I became about the “evils” of the world, the happier I was. Since a utopia, where there was no violence and pain, seemed impossible at this point, I concluded that the only reasonable solution was to try and make myself happy. This was all that was in my power to do anyway. And since I had completely discarded the model of morality, I no longer had to worry about trying to be “good” and instead I just concern myself with being effective. I wasn’t a saint, I wasn’t all loving and charitable; I was a human organism trying to make his way in the world the best he could, by his own wits. A weight had been lifted from me. It made everything so much simpler. It was terrifying and yet liberating, simultaneously.

Dan, what you have expressed here, is a problem which I refer to as the issue of moral hypocrisy. How can you destroy a killer without becoming a killer yourself? How can you judge others actions that you don’t approve of, without becoming judgmental as they are? This is what has led me to conclude that all encompassing goodness simply doesn’t work; it’s impractical. You can’t truly thwart “evil” without resorting to some of its tactics (without being significantly more powerful than the said evil, of course). Instead, I decided that there really was no such thing as true good or evil. Or, another way to think about it is to say that “good” is anything that I like and “evil” is anything that I don’t like; because it’s completely subjective. This allows me, as an individual, to determine what is right and what is wrong and to judge situations and others accordingly (the way I and everyone else would do anyway).

It’s obvious to me, from reading your posts that you’ve already begun to reach this conclusion. “Judging” others is not wrong. In fact, it’s a very important tool for understanding the world and navigating through it. If something seems wrong to you, then I say trust your instincts. We cannot afford to throw out standards of human conduct for fear of being too judgmental. And since we’re all playing on the same “field” (please excuse the trite sports metaphor), then we cannot afford to be too high and mighty or righteous. We don’t have any real world advantage over the “bad guys”. None of us can hope to be truly “good” and hope to effectively navigate or improve this world. We must understand that reason that those “bad guys” resort to such tactics is because those tactics are so effective. And it’s unreasonable to think that we can make any real impact without at least doing some of the same (beginning with our capacity to judge).

In your initial post in this thread you asked “So how do you love evil?” The answer that I came to long ago is that you must be occasionally willing to become evil. Or, more accurately, you need to throw out the concepts of good and evil altogether and realize that there is no such thing. It’s all subjective. Except the idea that certain evils in this world may be necessary for human evolution and social progress and that these things have to happen. People will suffer and die and that’s that. It’s just part of the deal. It can’t be stopped and in most cases, the most you can do is make yourself and those around you happy. But you should never be afraid to judge others by your own standards of morality either. Remember that to oppose another’s ideas can often mean making yourself into a villain in their eyes. Let us not forget that the Christian word “Satan” means “adversary” or “accuser”. So the only recourse for anyone who wishes to stand against any perceived injustice committed by others is to become villain to the people who are committing this injustice. They will fight for their version of “right”, you will fight for your version of “right”, the rest of us will do the same and victory will determine whose version of “right”, is the true right.

This is the basic line of thought that I used when dealing with the same type of problem that you are discussing here. This process took years. You expressed in interest to have this issue resolved, this weight lifted from you and I can assure you that coming to this conclusion will do that and more. It makes things so much simpler because you never have to concern yourself with “what should be” versus “what is”. No idealism, just embracing grim reality and learning how to enjoy it and use it to your own advantage. The more you walk down this path the more sense it will make, and the more advantages you will see. Of course, you will have to make up your own mind as to whether this is the right way for you to go. For me, these conclusions were the only ones that made sense to me, while pondering the kinds of issues that you’re dealing with.

And for the rest of you reading this and wondering; these choices are what Steve’s concept of polarization is all about. What you have just a read, is just one recipe for making a true “darkworker”.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:31 AM
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In every region and at every period of history, the problem has been repeatedly solved by individual men and women. Even when they spoke or wrote, these individuals created no systems--for they knew that every system is a standing temptation to take symbols too seriously, to pay more attention to words than to the realities for which the words are supposed to stand. Their aim was never to offer ready-made explanations and panaceas; it was to induce people to diagnose and cure their own ills, to get them to go to the place where man's problem and its solution present themselves directly to experience.

- Aldous Huxley.( English writer )
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Dan,

That's why i like steve pavlina's approach of conscious living .

If you don't like your job ,"Why don't you leave your job and start your own Non Profit ?"
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:27 PM
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How to love these guys ?

Hard question, the first answer I think lies in understanding. Understand who they are and how they came to such beliefs.

I read in a book this analogy about people and what they project to the world :
At their core, every person is like a diamond. But their fears, cowardice, wrong beliefs etc. covers this diamond with a nice piece of stinky sh#t.
In order for society not to see this sh#t, they cover it with glowing paint so they seem socially acceptable, and they project their fears onto others, turning part of the population into evil creatures.

Now in order to love them, we have to recognize the stinky sh"t and not mistake it for who they are. Take out their fears and wrong beliefs, and you'll see a beautiful diamond in them. At their core, wether they want it or not, they are part of Counsciousness. (We're all children of God is another way to say it ).

It's not about accepting what they do, it's about recognizing that what they do does not come from who they really are. The best way to change what they do is to wake them up .
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:59 PM
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