How to Be a Man (Blog)

[munish]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

munish, I don't get what your point is. What does all this have to do with Indira Gandhi?

She was a woman .

She would have served the world better , if she had used her feminine energy . By leaving politics and doing something else .

Human beings make all kind of mistakes , when they go against the universe/nature .

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by munish

She was a woman .

She would have served the world better , if she had used her feminine energy . By leaving politics and doing something else .

Human beings make all kind of mistakes , when they go against the universe/nature .

Would you say the same about Margaret Thatcher?

[Rose of Cairo]

Or Angela Merkel?

[danijelg]

Wow, quite a discussion going on here

I just wanted to say that I really like the post, because for me it did just what the author has intended - it made me take a look at my life and locate the aspects which need improvement.

I can see why some people find it offensive - it does sound quite dogmatic However, I do believe that Steve's intention is to offer help for the people who find his writings useful

[munish]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Or Angela Merkel?

It is difficult to comment , when you don't know much about a person.

I have read the autobiography of Indira Gandhi by Pupul Jaikar (a close friend of her) , and saw her (I.G.) once .( some days before she was assasinated in New Delhi.)

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by munish

She was a woman .

She would have served the world better , if she had used her feminine energy . By leaving politics and doing something else .

Human beings make all kind of mistakes , when they go against the universe/nature .

Let's be honest - some women are waaay superior to the majority in critical thinking and decision making.

In terms of raw competence - within any given realm - I divide the world between the capable and the incapable, the average and the elite. All other distinctions are meaningless to me.

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Would you be willing to describe the differences you see between masculine and feminine energy?

I once read about the image of a rocket in the sky as a metophor to describe male/female energies.
With this analogy, the male energy is the rocket while the female energy is the sky.
The female energy is allowing things to happen in its loving knowing.It is the loving space needed for the action to take place (like Earth, we say mother Earth, not father Earth). It is more related to being than doing. Characteristics are love, understanding, patience, allowing, knowing, nurturing.
The male energy is like a focused, goal oriented action. It does one thing at a time. It is like a clear decision. It is outward oriented. It's more related to doing than being. Freedom, expansion, persistance, courage could describe it.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by munish

It is difficult to comment , when you don't know much about a person.

I have read the autobiography of Indira Gandhi by Pupul Jaikar (a close friend of her) , and saw her (I.G.) once .( some days before she was assasinated in New Delhi.)

I never saw her, but I trust you on that and am willing to believe that Indira Gandhi had no suitable personality to be into politics. So what? That's one woman. Does this say something about all women?

I personally know a few men who are not suitable for politics either. Does this mean all men should listen to their nature and let politics to women?

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by theknightwhosaysni-NI

I once read about the image of a rocket in the sky as a metophor to describe male/female energies.
With this analogy, the male energy is the rocket while the female energy is the sky.
The female energy is allowing things to happen in its loving knowing.It is the loving space needed for the action to take place (like Earth, we say mother Earth, not father Earth). It is more related to being than doing. Characteristics are love, understanding, patience, allowing, knowing, nurturing.
The male energy is like a focused, goal oriented action. It does one thing at a time. It is like a clear decision. It is outward oriented. It's more related to doing than being. Freedom, expansion, persistance, courage could describe it.

That sounds more like a crude analogy for sex!

[Spartan]

I wish people would stop implying that anyone who disagrees with reinforcing stereotypes based on gender (and weak inductive arguments as I have shown) is ashamed to express their masculinity/femininity. That is not the case for me. I just disagree that there are a significant amount of behavioural characteristics inherent to everyone of a specific gender.

[DJCT]

Originally Posted by cylon

Because masculinity is shamed in our culture. When's the last time you saw a man in the media who wasn't portrayed as either a complete imbecele who had to have is wife chew his food for him, or a calculating, sexual predator? <and then everything else you said>

Great post cylon!

[Spartan]

Masculinity isn't 'shamed' in my culture (modern western). Sure traditional stereotypes are parodied, but whether that makes one feel ashamed is a purely subjective evaluation.

I suggest people are instead ashamed to express their individuality. Why use gender as an excuse to express one's natural behavioural tendencies?

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by Spartan

Masculinity isn't 'shamed' in my culture (modern western). Sure traditional stereotypes are parodied, but whether that makes one feel ashamed is a purely subjective evaluation.

I suggest people are instead ashamed to express their individuality. Why use gender as an excuse to express one's natural behavioural tendencies?

I don't think they're using gender as an excuse to express natural behavioral tendencies.

It looks to me like they're merely observing that certain genders in our culture tend to express themselved through separate tendencies more often than not.

Masculinity, the way Steve describes it at some points, certainly IS shamed by our culture, as EVERYTHING is. Everyone is quick to point the finger where we're from; look at the news, everything is judgment and shame.

Putting your relationships second is somehting that's definitely shamed in our culture, and I also see it as a strong masculine trait. When I turn down a friend or family member because they ask me to fix their computer for free or invite me somewhere I don't want to go (for moral or productivity reasons) it is because I have core values that I stick to that are higher than my relationships.

It's more important that I cause no harm and continue to add value than to fix something that can be easily solved by someone who feels it's their purpose to do so or waste my time doing a mindless activity that I don't feel inclined to do while I'm already hard at work.

Bring on the shame, as I won't feel badly whatsoever. I've made my decisions, and I'll continue to take the consequences as they come; I'll continue to smile as you shame me as I've made the conscious decision to do what I feel is right.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Wow, that's rare. That's a nice thing to hear; girls like you still exist.

Well, thanks. I have actually run into one or two others, but they have been "heavily into" Christianity.

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

What could men do better to make others like you shed that social conditioning though? Would you say men are "rewarding" the wrong type of girls?

You could definitely say that. I didn't respond to cylon's comment:

All I can say is as a man, and I'm sure you've experienced this, is the qualites you've listed are exactly what a man is attracted to, when he feels he's loved and being looked after, (even in simple ways) at that point we're basically done. Putty in your hands.

But nothing could be farther from the truth concerning my limited experience. For one thing, I never really even got that far in a relationship to freely express that side of me, and secondly, the two men I did love opted for the usual type of girl, and neglected to tell me while we were still together. Other men might always have been put off me due to other principles I have or because my personality is not very "bouncy" or universally welcoming [I'm not sure how to put that].

One thing I'll say that I know had an effect is that modern men don't wait around if you tell them you won't have sex before marriage. Sexual liberation has come with "feminism" and I don't think men want to give up the sexual liberty that came with "feminism" in order to be with someone who feels like I do.

[cylon]

Well you're right about the sex part. Men these days (I'm one of them) have thrown out the no sex before marriage deal. You need to do what's right for you. If a woman won't sleep with them, after awhile, men today are conditioned to think that she's not really interested, that maybe she's using him for friendship or for his money or is trying to lock him into marriage. Men like having sex and don't see the point in waiting around for it when they could get it elsewhere. If after at the most several dates there is no sex, the man who knows he has options is going to move on to someone else who recognizes his real need for physical intimacy. That's a guy's perspective.

But--that being said, the qualities you listed, loving and nurturing, absolutely, attractive to men. No two ways about it. Those are the qualities that I AM looking for in a woman.

[Marco Polo]

Judging by this and similar discussions in various fora, some select few women (usually very vocal) appear genuinely threatened by males becoming gender conscious. And I'd wager that it goes way beyond us throwing out vulgar "sterotypes" and such. But like they say, there's no stopping an idea who's time has come.

*snigger* we'll see if I'm actually right on that or not...

[mlkirchw]

I suppose I'm not familiar with anyone who would treat his family like a gang that he needs to be loyal to above all else. Is this your default understanding of how families normally behave?

I don't place family above the other values...they are on equal level and not mutually exclusive. I would never stand by and defend my son for bullying another child but instead integrate the other values you mention into a lesson for his growth. It is my understanding of the principles you speak of throughout this site that allow me to provide tremendous value to my family and honor my commitment to them. To me, one can be no better man in that respect.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

For one thing, I never really even got that far in a relationship to freely express that side of me

As far as not getting far enough into a relationship to express that, try to show some of those qualities eariler on. If the guy is worth it to you, and you do some of those little things for him it makes a big difference.

I observe for that stuff. Does the woman do these kind little things, do I see her maternal side coming out. If I don't see that side, it's a let down. I think I'm dealing with another ego-driven male. And I want a woman, not a man who's competing with me. I want a soft refuge from all that, a woman.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by cylon

When's the last time you saw a man in the media who wasn't portrayed as either a complete imbecele who had to have is wife chew his food for him, or a calculating, sexual predator?

If we're talking tv and movies, I'd say there are some really good images of men out there and of course some bad ones like you've mentioned.

But it's not just the men who are protrayed badly either. Women suffer the same fate. Only we get to be ditsy sex objects.

There are good and bad portrayals of both men and women in the media.

I can agree with anyone who says that there are not many good models for young men or women to follow in creating strong values and following through on them. The types and struggles are different, but we all have our own obstacles to face.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

some select few women (usually very vocal) appear genuinely threatened by males becoming gender conscious.

Wouldn't you rather be the one who had all the power? Women have it today. Time to balance things out.

It may be awhile until you see another genuine men's movement though. Can you imagine a bunch of guys already ashamed of their masculinity being called sexist by the women around them? Would probably last two days. "yes dear, sorry for being a sexist dear, whatever you do... STAY OUT of the kitchen! Keep your SHOES ON! Thankyou. Now we can cuddle and watch King of Queens."

[cylon]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

But it's not just the men who are protrayed badly either. Women suffer the same fate. Only we get to be ditsy sex objects.

Maybe so. But on average it's the resourceful, wise, strong as a rock super-woman who holds the entire world together.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by cylon

Well you're right about the sex part. Men these days (I'm one of them) have thrown out the no sex before marriage deal. You need to do what's right for you. If a woman won't sleep with them, after awhile, men today are conditioned to think that she's not really interested, that maybe she's using him for friendship or for his money or is trying to lock him into marriage. Men like having sex and don't see the point in waiting around for it when they could get it elsewhere. If after at the most several dates there is no sex, the man who knows he has options is going to move on to someone else who recognizes his real need for physical intimacy. That's a guy's perspective.

Well, I have spent years observing the dynamics between men and women, in my own interactions and in others' and I have learned a lot about it. First of all, men must have no idea how easy it is to use and control them with sex, because if they did, I don't know why they would keep falling for it over and over. I have seen the power game, whether it leads to actual sex or not. Women realize at some point the power they hold over men with seduction, sex and sexuality and, at some point, they realize how weak men are and how easily manipulated. I never partake in that kind of rapport with men, because I think it's repulsive to take advantage of someone else's weakness, but men seem to genuinely enjoy it, so...what can I do...

Likewise, I have never dated. If I happened to meet a man in any sort of venue and it seemed we could be friends or something along those lines, I had to let him know right off we weren't going to have sex, so, again, I never got very far, because no matter what sort of relationship a man might get to know a girl for, you can be sure he wants sex to be part of it [my experience].

The thing is, the sexual liberation is part and parcel of the feminist movement and it did enable women to gain this power over men. And another thing is, as long as you can control a man with sex or sexuality, I don't know if he can ever come into his masculinity. Having said all of that, fidelity in a man is of utmost importance to me and I would never want some tart, whatever her agenda, be able to seduce him or manipulate him, no matter what the circumstances were between him and me--I mean, it has to be a principle that he upholds without consideration to his other relationships--this is an example where it is extremely important to value principles etc above relationships--to not put relationships first. But that's a different issue.

I also forgot to say, the things I said about myself and my femininity apply to men and masculinity also--I embrace it and I love it too and want men to be that way that is considered masculine, or at least if I had a man, I'd want him to be that way. I don't like portrayals of men like "Tim-the-Toolman-Taylor" and the roles their wives take on.

P.S. Since it has been brought up, Jill Taylor is no ditsy sex object, and it looks like most sit-coms are all the same in that they center around some retarded idiotic, but therefore extremely comical, man being put in place by his down-to-earth, wise and sensible wife. It is funny, but it looks like feminist butt-kissing to me. If women nowadays want that kind of marriage, more power to them, but it would be a living hell for me and I'll never be in a relationship again if it comes to that. It's just how things are in this day and age.