How to Be a Man (Blog)

[cylon]

Steve here's an idea for a followup to this article. Walking the spiritual path that seems to go beyond gender, yet retaining your "earthly" masculine nature at the same time, yin/yang etc.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by cylon

WHAT are you talking about? Look at the title for THIS website. "personal DEVELOPMENT".

Not personal "birthright".

And it's not a bandwagon. Please stop using the stereotype that people coming here using a term like that are part of a 'bandwagon'. I find it offensive.

What I meant was, one is born a male. The quality of being a male is not something to be attained. Unless you wish to change genders of course.

[MasterD]

Originally Posted by cylon

Steve here's an idea for a followup to this article. Walking the spiritual path that seems to go beyond gender, yet retaining your "earthly" masculine nature at the same time, yin/yang etc.

That would be great; I still have Sam Keen's 'Hymns to a Unknown God' as a sequal to 'On Being a Man' unread on the shelf.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Spartan

What I meant was, one is born a male. The quality of being a male is not something to be attained. Unless you wish to change genders of course.

Right. He's talking about the quality of being a MAN (capital M).... you know the ideal of a strong male who has mastered his mind and emotions and makes the world a better place? Places like this, help to foster that type of growth. You sort of have to DEVELOP it. Then you go from boy to MAN (bold, italic, underlined).

You know what. It's nothing to be ashamed about. "Nature decided to give me certain body parts, and certain chemicals and instintcs, that it didn't give to the hot chick over there with the other body parts. That's ok. She can have her characteristics, I'll have mine. Obviously we have this different stuff for a reason, so let's make the best of it."

Steve wrote a fantastic, uplifting article from (please sit down for this one it's going to rock your world) A MALE PERSPECTIVE (sorry for the swearing) becasue Steve is a DUDE. He's a male who became a MAN and he's listing the qualities that helped him BECOME THAT....

It's an ideal dude. Sheesh. It took me awhile to understand myself, I used to be one of these soft little puppy dog boys some of the lovely ladies in this thread are suggesting. I didn't get masculinity, I got femininity. So I had to become, to change, to grow. Which is why I love and relate to this stuff so much, and am glad Steve wrote my new daily read.

Don't be ashamed of your masculinity.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by cylon

Right. He's talking about the quality of being a MAN (capital M).... you know the ideal of a strong male who has mastered his mind and emotions and makes the world a better place? Places like this, help to foster that type of growth. You sort of have to DEVELOP it. Then you go from boy to MAN (bold, italic, underlined).

You know what. It's nothing to be ashamed about. "Nature decided to give me certain body parts, and certain chemicals and instintcs, that it didn't give to the hot chick over there with the other body parts. That's ok. She can have her characteristics, I'll have mine. Obviously we have this different stuff for a reason, so let's make the best of it."

Steve wrote a fantastic, uplifting article from (please sit down for this one it's going to rock your world) A MALE PERSPECTIVE (sorry for the swearing) becasue Steve is a DUDE. He's a male who became a MAN and he's listing the qualities that helped him BECOME THAT....

It's an ideal dude. Sheesh. It took me awhile to understand myself, I used to be one of these soft little puppy dog boys some of the lovely ladies in this thread are suggesting. I didn't get masculinity, I got femininity. So I had to become, to change, to grow. Which is why I love and relate to this stuff so much, and am glad Steve wrote my new daily read.

Don't be ashamed of your masculinity.

A man is an adult male, not some 'ideal' to be attained.

Nevertheless, I strongly disagree with your male 'ideal'.

I'm not ashamed of my masculinity, I'm ashamed that I live in a world where intelligent, rational people attempt to impose their dogmatic beliefs (in this case a stereotype of masculinity) onto others.

[Playlife]

So since femininity makes us soft little puppy dogs, are women then destined to be soft little puppy dogs?

It seems to be a central assumption here that those of us who don't want to play this "men are such and women are such" game are ashamed of our masculinity. But I'm not! What I get from you now is that I should be ashamed of my femininity.

This article is about the Ideal Male, about ideals. Ideals at best, stereotypes at worst.

I personally don't want to polarize either way. I guess I'd be 49-51. Femininity 49 - 51 Masculinity. Just so that I can be classified as a man, I guess. Ideally(!), I wouldn't control my polarization and what not at all anyway, just let myself be wholly myself. Segregating different qualities into male and female boxes doesn't serve me very well I guess.

---

I should also add that I'm not new to these forums, but decided to spice things up with a new identity. My fangirls will probably recognize me fast enough - but post your guesses via PM, not on the boards. Thank you.

[theonlyguy]

"A man doesn’t blame others for his relationship problems. When a relationship is no longer compatible with his heart-centered path, he initiates the break-up and departs without blame or guilt."

Where's the line for this, can you just leave committed relationships when they don't match your path any more? What if it's the man's wife or family?

[Savage]

@Spartan:

What I'm hearing behind your words is a frustration with being judged for not meeting what you consider the current social standard for masculinity. We're all free to reject such standards if they don't apply to us. However, your reaction suggests that internally you continue to maintain that same standard but feel unable to meet it. Therefore, you choose to despise and attack the standard itself in order to avoid feelings of inadequacy. This is unnecessary, however.

I'll suggest a couple ways you can resolve this inner conflict.

First, you can admit to yourself that you agree with some of the male standard and work on yourself to express those parts you agree with, while still fully accepting where you are right now (see Self Acceptance vs. Personal Growth). This includes facing the fear of how people may treat you when you embody such qualities.

Alternatively, you may consciously develop your own standard for behavior that's very different from what I wrote. You can reject certain masculine values if you reall don't consider them right for you. This also requires accepting where you are right now, even as you continue to grow in the direction you choose.

Either way the problem of non-acceptance is resolved. You'll stop feeling such a need to attack beliefs you disagree with when you've reached the point of congruence with your own beliefs.

We're often taught to despise what we think we can't have, but this doesn't help us live more consciously.

[helga]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

.
Erin is involved in a mastermind group that's all women. .... I also felt like I couldn't really be myself with that group -- I felt like I'd scare or intimidate them if I talked about my real plans and goals, and that didn't seem fair to them.

ah yes, women are so delicate they can't handle being challenged that much. Yet somehow they manage to rule nations and pilot the space shuttle.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

FYI I've received 4 submissions for the "How to Be a Woman" article already.

At least 5.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by helga

ah yes, women are so delicate they can't handle being challenged that much. Yet somehow they manage to rule nations and pilot the space shuttle.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe I should just let loose and see what happens.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Spartan

A man is an adult male, not some 'ideal' to be attained.

Nevertheless, I strongly disagree with your male 'ideal'.

I'm not ashamed of my masculinity, I'm ashamed that I live in a world where intelligent, rational people attempt to impose their dogmatic beliefs (in this case a stereotype of masculinity) onto others.

Then an adult is someone who is over the age of 18 (in the US at least) or let's say, 21 (when you can buy alcohol in the US).

So an adult is any sentient human over the age of 21.

Now you and I both know the word 'adult' has a literal and a broader meaning. Right? Yeah.

Spartan I'm afraid you're reading too much into this. I asked for an example from the article, you said the word "confidence" was a stereotype, and harmful because there are some people who have a hard time with confidence, some POSSIBLY suffering from illness beyond their control, then you're talking about fascism and stuff.

And you're implying that I am participating in imposing my own dogmatic beliefs... nonsense. I'm saying make the best of what you have, and since we're born to get down, a lot of what you have to DEVELOP are the unique strengths and potential weaknesses (potential strengths left undeveloped) specific to gender.

Maybe I'll rent Swing Kids now.

[Spartan]

Well I've said enough, I'll let the readers of this thread make up their own minds.

@Steve:

I would have preferred usage of the phrase 'conscious individual' instead of the gender specific 'man'.

I accept your 'ideal' may be different from mine.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Playlife

So since femininity makes us soft little puppy dogs, are women then destined to be soft little puppy dogs?

I prefer the cute little kitten analogy when it comes to women. Soft, gentle, playful, intelligent, curious and mischevious.... all the while knowing those claws can come out. Keeps it 'spicy'.

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by cylon

I prefer the cute little kitten analogy when it comes to women. Soft, gentle, playful, intelligent, curious and mischevious.... all the while knowing those claws can come out. Keeps it 'spicy'.

So are you saying that softness in women is good or acceptable and not so in a man?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Playlife

So are you saying that softness in women is good or acceptable and not so in a man?

It's a different kind of softness. By nature women are more soft, gentle, caring, nurturing.... feminine. Men respond to that, I know I do.

Sure a man should be in touch with his emotions. But he needs to master them. That's his role. Man is the rock, woman is the water that flows around the rock. Both strong in their own way.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Playlife

acceptable

Virtuous may be a better word to reflect the intent behind these suggestions. Obviously virtues are social conventions and therefore are not "true" in the absolute truth sense but some people may decide they are beneficial for whatever reasons. Others won't. We live in a liberal society so can pick and choose. I wonder though if we were happier when we were told what was good and what was bad. There is so much uncertainty nowadays.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by cylon

It's a different kind of softness. By nature women are more soft, gentle, caring, nurturing.... feminine. Men respond to that, I know I do.

Sure a man should be in touch with his emotions. But he needs to master them. That's his role. Man is the rock, woman is the water that flows around the rock. Both strong in their own way.

I'm sorry but I had to comment on this one.

Why do you seem incapable of accepting that other people have different opinions?

You don't even allow for the possibility of other views, you instead keep asserting your own close-minded, sexist opinion.

Men and women don't have to conform to any stereotypes or 'roles'. Men can be wimpy, emotional and indecisive, yet that doesn't make them any less of a man. It might however make them less virtuous human beings, but that is not what you are saying. You are saying men act one way, whilst women act another, and that kind of gender based prejudice is very frustrating!

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by cylon

It's a different kind of softness. By nature women are more soft, gentle, caring, nurturing.... feminine.

haha lol That's how society teaches them that they should be, not how they are "by nature". Maybe in your reality, and that's fine. In mine not. What you expect, you attract.

Sure a man should be in touch with his emotions. But he needs to master them.

So a woman doesn't need to master her emotions? Oh crap, and I spend so much time learning how to master them... Great, let's hysterically cry around!

hehehe, this thread is very funny

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Spartan

I'm sorry but I had to comment on this one.

Why do you seem incapable of accepting that other people have different opinions?

You don't even allow for the possibility of other views, you instead keep asserting your own close-minded, sexist opinion.

Men and women don't have to conform to any stereotypes. Men can be wimpy, emotional and indecisive, yet that doesn't make them any less of a man. It might however make them less virtuous human beings, but that is not what you are saying. You are saying men act one way, whilst women act another, and that kind of gender based prejudice is very frustrating!

Are you actually commenting on my post? Why would I not allow for the possibility of other views? I enjoy the opinions of others. Makes for good discussion. Your self-concept is fluid. I'm expressing where I am in my life at this point.

Look I can say IN MY OPINION in every single post, but I'm not going to. It is all my opinion. You are free to have your own. Hope that clears things up. I agree gender confusion can be frustrating.

People are free to conform to any stereotype or ideal or image or concept they choose. I don't have the power to make decisions for others nor do I desire to do so.

However I'd prefer you stop using these labels on me as person. The worst thing I've said to you is to lighten up. But, say what you will I guess. I don't see it as close-minded or sexist. Quite benign actually. IMHO.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

haha lol That's how society teaches them that they should be, not how they are "by nature". Maybe in your reality, and that's fine. In mine not. What you expect, you attract.

Yes, I sure hope I attract a soft, gentle, loving, nurturing lady. If I attract that I will be happy and hope you'd be happy for me.

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

So a woman doesn't need to master her emotions? Oh crap, and I spend so much time learning how to master them... Great, let's hysterically cry around!

Men are bewitched by the fluctuating emotions of women. Don't control them on my account. Both men and women have emotions that they must learn to master to be happy people. I'm going to give you that one. BUT-- I can't speak of what it's like to be a girl. Men and women react differently to the same things.

And, please don't assume I mean it in a negative way.

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by cylon

Men and women react differently to the same things.

Yeps. Different people react differently to the same things. Simple really.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by cylon

Are you actually commenting on my post?

...I don't see it as close-minded or sexist. Quite benign actually. IMHO

Yes I'm commenting on your post, and I don't consider it 'benign' to assert gender specific 'roles' or make unfounded claims about the nature of men/women.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Spartan

Yes I'm commenting on your post, and I don't consider it 'benign' to assert gender specific 'roles' or make unfounded claims about the nature of men/women.

Fair enough. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and end the discussion there.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Playlife

Yeps. Different people react differently to the same things. Simple really.

Missed this one. I agree, all people are unique and respond differently, and as humans I think there are cases where we all respond in the same way to the same things as well.

But this doesn't mean men and women see the world in the same way, my assertion here is that we respond differently based on gender, to the things that tend to bring those gender differences out.

Men and women are not the same.

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by cylon

Missed this one. I agree, all people are unique and respond differently, and as humans I think there are cases where we all respond in the same way to the same things as well.

But this doesn't mean men and women see the world in the same way, my assertion here is that we respond differently based on gender, to the things that tend to bring those gender differences out.

Men and women are not the same.

I'm not saying that men and women are the same. I'm saying that men and women are different. And men and women and other women and men and more men and some other men and such women and that men and me and you and Steve and Spartan and some men and we all are different.

I see little point in restricting men to be like most men or "ideal man" (and who tells me what is ideal man anyway?). And same to women.

I guess it's that I'm not into being told how to be. Yes I'm a rebel.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Playlife

I guess it's that I'm not into being told how to be. Yes I'm a rebel.

Well in personal development, there are often people who have come before, who have walked the same path, struggled with the same issues, etc. When you come across someone who you recognize as reflecting things you are concerned with, it's a way to work things out for yourself. That's what this article means to me.

Hell, with the reaction to this topic, I feel like the rebel. But that's fine. We're all here to figure it out for ourselves. I believe the stuff Steve wrote, is helpful to men on the path to reclaiming their masculinity. Ultimately, you're the one on the journey, you're the one who decides what works for you, and what doesn't.

[Playlife]

The thing is, I don't need to "reclaim" anything. No-one has taken any of my masculinity away. It's more of the opposite - I've always been told to be more "manly". And now this article also seems to suggest that there's something wrong with me that I don't want to control things all the time and I don't want to "develop" and "improve" things, myself included.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Playlife

The thing is, I don't need to "reclaim" anything. No-one has taken any of my masculinity away. It's more of the opposite - I've always been told to be more "manly". And now this article also seems to suggest that there's something wrong with me that I don't want to control things all the time and I don't want to "develop" and "improve" things, myself included.

I said: "I believe the stuff Steve wrote, is helpful to men on the path to reclaiming their masculinity."

Where did you get from that I was talking about you personally?

There's nothing "wrong" with not developing or improving your life. Those are value judgments YOU make, for yourself.

I'm told there's something wrong with me because I am apparently "sexist" and "dogmatic". But frankly, that's not how I live my life. I will tell you though, that as my own personal sense of masculinity has increased, my appreciation for women has increased as well.

The more I see the unique characteristics men have, the more I see the unique characteristics that WOMEN have, and I value how DIFFERENT they truly are. I see more now how men and women COMPLEMENT each other. Things that are identical, do not complement each other. Walking with two left shoes is going to feel weird.

But Playlife, if you read ANYTHING, that you perceive suggests that there is "something wrong with you", and you get defensive, or respond negatively, you need to LOOK AT THAT. I don't care if it's about being a man or anything else. And I'm not going to sit here and say that I have mastered this, I haven't. But the more self-empowered you feel, the less likely you are going to react negatively to ideas and concepts that apparently threaten you. I think Steve's post to Spartan summed that aspect up quite well.

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by cylon

Walking with two left shoes is going to feel weird.

Of course it is. That's why I feel it's best to embrace both masculinity and femininity in oneself.

Originally Posted by cylon

But Playlife, if you read ANYTHING, that you perceive suggests that there is "something wrong with you", and you get defensive, or respond negatively, you need to LOOK AT THAT. I don't care if it's about being a man or anything else. And I'm not going to sit here and say that I have mastered this, I haven't. But the more self-empowered you feel, the less likely you are going to react negatively to ideas and concepts that apparently threaten you. I think Steve's post to Spartan summed that aspect up quite well.

Yup, I know, that's a whole another issue of mine that needs work.

[Savage]

Check out this book: Everything Men Know About Women.

It's a bestseller with a 4-star review.

Incidentally, all of the pages are blank.