How to Be a Man (Blog)

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Spartan

Are you implying I'm not a man?

I don't know if you're a man or a woman. "(s)he" and "herm" are my clumsy ways of leaving it neutral.

[Marco Polo]

Given Spartan's strong views on the topic, it would actually be an odd behaviour to "reject it and move on".

Spartan, allow me to quote your initial post:

Originally Posted by Spartan

I found this particular article offensive, preachy and damn right sexist. The general tone made me nauseous with indignation. Steve sounds like some fascist dictator.

Speaking from my point of view as a very preachy hating sort of guy, even I found your reply to be preposterous, and ladened with nonsensical emotion. Now, given the moral outrage with which your initiated our discussion, and your attempts to espouse your political correctness upon us since then - speaking of "blinding sentiment" is hardly within your jurisdiction.

Do you consider us fascist dictators for at least partially agreeing with Steve's article? Or would you soften that sort of stance now that you've heard some arguments from both sides?

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

you consider us fascist dictators for at least partially agreeing with Steve's article? Or would you soften that sort of stance now that you've heard some arguments from both sides?

Yes, I would soften that stance now I realise it's a matter of semantics. I'm a man btw, that's why I felt the need to express my initial disgust at being preached to. I interpreted Steve's article as preachy and yes, even fascist. Since it seeks to forge a unity amongst men (in the form of ideal traits), whilst ignoring individuality.

[cylon]

I see political activism in your future Spartan.

[Marco Polo]

Well I think your responses alone, Spartan, show that individuality is alive and well.

But as long as you keep equating brotherhood to fascism, lofty ideals to misogyny and refreshing conviction to preachiness - I can't really look at your viewpoint with a great deal of understanding.

As for your disgust at being "preached" to... OK, perhaps my reaction to Mein Kampf would be one of disgust as well. What matters, of course, is our ability to intellectually rise above things which we happen to disagree with.

I'm guessing you're not against preachiness in principle though. As in, if women were to unite in a sisterhood of sorts (which they have) - politically driven by feminism - how would you respond to that? With disgust, loathing, cries of moral outrage?

Why is the "How to be a woman" thread not generating allegations of fascism? Hm, I wonder...



---

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

I'm guessing you're not against preachiness in principle though. As in, if women were to unite in a sisterhood of sorts (which they have) - politically driven by feminism - how would you respond to that? With disgust, loathing, cries of moral outrage?

I would. And do.

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Why is the "How to be a woman" thread not generating allegations of fascism? Hm, I wonder...

Because I am not as good at argumentation as Spartan.

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by Playlife

I would. And do.

Ah well if you're consistent then good on you.

Because I am not as good at argumentation as Spartan.

Uhm... haha... ok, I'll let that one pass.

[Jed]

Steve - Thank you for your attention to this subject, which is given too little heed in our culture. Your post is beautiful.

But - I must ask you - have you read The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida lately? A few other posters mentioned this ... and I mention it because seven of your points read nearly verbatim from the book. The first time I read your post I was a bit shocked that your points are so similar to the book. Please clarify this, because I'm feeling a bit cheated by you ... I'd like to know that this is your original work versus a summary of some of the points in a great book.

In reading over my prior paragraph, it sounds accusatory. I have no intention of accusation, just clarity. I respect you enough to ask for credit where credit is due, and if you tell me that the post came of your own consideration, my respect for you will only grow.

[Brutha]

I'd like to know that this is your original work versus a summary of some of the points in a great book.

There is no such thing as original work.
Ideas always travel through multiple people.
Ideas are out there.

A writer catches those ideas and bring them to paper and gives them his own perspective.
I don't know whether Steve has read Deida but the ideas in that post are certainly out there at the moment.

Whether it is Daida's book "Men come from Mars, Woman form Venus" or a pickup book like The Game (and a lot of those pickup people are into personal development), it's in the zeitgeist to look again at manlines after a time where every one who talked about differences between the sexes was labeled as sexist.
David Daida writes from a more spiritual perspective.
Since Steve also writes from a spiritual perspective it is natural that the content matches in great parts.

[jamestl2]

Originally Posted by Brutha

There is no such thing as original work.
Ideas always travel through multiple people.
Ideas are out there.

A writer catches those ideas and bring them to paper and gives them his own perspective.

Now that topic would make another great and interesting blog post .

[Savage]

I don't have any of Deida's books, but it's possible we've had similar influences, since I do read a lot of self-help books. A lot of people have recommended Deida's material to me since I started blogging, possibly because we seem to have similar philosophies. However, I usually don't bother to look into other people's work when I'm told I sound like so-and-so, since I figure there's not as much to learn if we already share similar ideas. I prefer to read sources that have different philosophies than mine.

The "How to Be a Man" article is a summary piece based on previous articles I've written. I've published a great deal of material on making decisions, defining your life purpose, making failure your friend, being confident, taking initiative, using sex energy, facing fear, accepting responsibility, and making peace with death. You'll find multiple articles on all of those topics in the archives. This article brings many of those ideas together in one place.

Point #8 in the article wasn't based on previous material. That was something new I decided to write about, based on my own personal experience. But all the other points can be traced to previously published articles.

The only really different thing about this article is that I used an atypical style as an experiment. I normally write articles in first and second person, but for this article I opted to use third person. I actually wrote the first draft in second person, and then I switched to third person at the last minute. I thought it gave the article an interesting tone, so I kept it. Perhaps that made it sound like I was using a different voice.

I haven't read any books in the Pick-up Artist field (such as The Game), but I seem to get an unusual amount of traffic from PUA sites. For some reason a number of my articles have become popular in that community, especially those that deal with building confidence and overcoming fear. I see thousands of visitors from such sites in my traffic logs every month. Most of the PUA stuff I've seen online seems a bit low on the consciousness scale though, so it isn't something I care to write about directly.

FWIW people have also told me I sound a lot like Byron Katie at times, but I've never read any of her work either.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

FWIW people have also told me I sound a lot like Byron Katie at times, but I've never read any of her work either.

I think what you have in common with her is that you continually question your thoughts for truth. That's a little bit unusual, so I can see why you'd remind people of one another.

[Fullcrum]

Steve, if you want to see high consciousness PUA stuff, I recommend the Blueprint Decoded from RSD. It's really high on the consciousness level and integrates such concepts as social conditioning, polarity, human nature, evolutionary phychology, and other concepts like Eastern philosophy into a coherent larger picture. Actually, I'd say it's hands down the best personal development product I've ever seen in my life. Hands down, no questions asked.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

If you're in fact talking about energies, then please talk about energies, and let the biological gender out of there. Using it as a criterion is disempowering and limiting, especially for those whose energetical gender doesn't match their biological one. A guy with dominant female energy would have a hard time living like this. However, he is neither automatically gay, nor a wimp.

I'm pretty sure this would be me.

According to the list, I'm basically 3/10ths manly

Having said that, people have called me overly masculine before. Women at times have called me an insensitive jerk, emotionally distant, uncaring and selfish, stuff like that. The irony is that these insults have always cut me deeply

Men have often called me a *****, a fag, stuff like that. Sometimes they don't even mean it as an insult! This one guy I worked with used to honestly asked me, "Why are you such a ♥♥♥♥♥?" and all I could really do is answer, "I'm so sorry, I have no idea." I honestly believe he didn't mean it as an insult, I think I was just an enigma to him. He would look at me and tilt his head like I was some kind of strange creature from the sea that he was trying to identify.

So men call me too girly, and women call me too manly.

Any help?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Whether it is Daida's book "Men come from Mars, Woman form Venus" or a pickup book like The Game (and a lot of those pickup people are into personal development), it's in the zeitgeist to look again at manlines after a time where every one who talked about differences between the sexes was labeled as sexist.

True. You've entered new territory Steve!

Now to be read by millions of sexists and/or misogynists. This article is a big hit at the site I go to already.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I haven't read any books in the Pick-up Artist field (such as The Game), but I seem to get an unusual amount of traffic from PUA sites. For some reason a number of my articles have become popular in that community, especially those that deal with building confidence and overcoming fear. I see thousands of visitors from such sites in my traffic logs every month. Most of the PUA stuff I've seen online seems a bit low on the consciousness scale though, so it isn't something I care to write about directly.

Steve it's because guys are looking for something. Women being important, they think women are the answer. So they may learn from PUAs and think that's the answer, but eventually, the truth comes out and they start realizing it's about authentic self-confidence, and masculinity, a sense of SELF.

So they graduate from the PUA stuff to sites like this that are about how to BE a great person, not how to trick people into thinking you are one.

[yossarian]

By the way, Tyler Durden's RSD is basically the definition of how to be a modern darkworker. And Tyler Durden himself is an accomplished darkworker, or was at least the last time I read him. He's a brilliant guy, an evil genius.

There is nothing quite like shaming EVERYONE YOU EVER MEET into submission, using every manipulation tactic that can possible be discovered to take total control of all the people around you.

Having said that, if I ever met Tyler Durden in real life, he would take all my girls. But I wouldn't be shamed for a moment and I wouldn't buy into his reality. I would retain my own peaceful, quiet world and I would look out to him with compassion and love. He would verbally slap me and I would turn the other cheek. I've done it enough in my life to know I can stand up to Tyler Durden. He has spent his life and all his energy developing manipulation tactics but they are nothing next to the passive and silent peace that I so often am. He is like a raging hurricane and I am a mountain with deep roots. He would whip me and strip me but I would still stand.

So anyway I guess this "rock like" passivity is not masculinity but it doesn't seem like femininity either. To me the genders don't really define these things anyway.. the elements are a better metaphor.

I would say that Steve is Fire. Raging, burning, consuming, always growing, always pressing forward.

I would say that I am Earth, which is not all that remarkable and not very romantic. Earth just sort of "is" and you don't notice it doing anything, though it does have plans

Food for thought

[RN-Calgary]

I have been reading Steve' posts since January 2005. As i recall I stumbled up on it when I was searching for The Journal resources which is a great software I have used for the last 6 years. A couple of his pod cast I have on my MP3 player and listen too sometimes when I walk to work. To me his posts in addition to books, I like especially Stephen Coveys, and samurai literature, helps me to stay somewhat focused on personal development.

This post was another post Steve wrote that resonates well with my ideals too.

I have courageously chosen to not participate in the forum discussions since I believe discussions does not help personal development. This thread is another example of that, where a great post ends in discussion of this post are fascistic, sexist or not. For me the use of this post, or any post, is to read then reflect if that is something I can use in my own development or not. I don't believe in absolute rights or wrongs in personal development it's your personal journey. If I stated my ideals and believes on this web site I would probably been given much worse characteristics.

However I never see the reason to be offended by any post. All posts are Steve's views which I sometimes find useful and sometimes not. Sometimes agrees with and sometimes not. For instance when Steve writes about lucid dreaming i briefly skim through them and decide - not my cup of tea- .

I have a few reflections on the post that I would like to share, even though it is against my principles.

Title How to be a man. It is a great title. It does not say anywhere that this not relate to a woman. But Steve always write about his own experiences and knowledge. That is what gives him credibility in my opinion. Since he is the male subset of our species he writes about that. He does not imply in the post that this does not can apply to women too.

For me this type of critique or argumentation can be used on all work. You addressed men what have you against women do you imply that we can't be like that? You speak about raw vegan food why do you imply meat is unhealthy? You speak about goal setting why do you imply relaxation is not important? For any given topic it will be another topic that is not addressed where you can use this argumentation. This is what politicians has to think about all the time. Example. You did not wear a flag pin your not patriotic, you sympathize with terrorists.

Another point that resonate well with me , but stirred controversy, is put your relationships second. What Stephen Covey would call family centered persons. Again my understanding of this is that Steve did not say that you should put your self in the center but your values or principles should be in center. A good example is the film Freedom Writers (NB Spoiler) where one of the girls had to go against her own family to witness in a murder case. My suggestion is go and see the movie and decide what you think is the right decision. I definitely put my relationships, for me it is my wife and kids, second. But I put my self in a third. (My values is first). So what do I mean with that. I would risk my life, in a heartbeat, to save my kids. However if my kids does not well in life for instance become criminals I will not cover for them.

So the final question is do I think this relates to women as well? I don't know. And I really do not care either. My personal experiences with women is that there are differences between the sexes. It is up to you to make your own judgments on that.

Why did I write this post? I do not know. Probably to show some support to Steve. However, I do not intend get into any discussions on what I have written above. I still believe discussions will not help my personal development.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Having said that, people have called me overly masculine before. Women at times have called me an insensitive jerk, emotionally distant, uncaring and selfish, stuff like that. The irony is that these insults have always cut me deeply

This is not necessarily a bad thing, believe it or not. You'd have to give more specific examples.

Originally Posted by yossarian

Men have often called me a *****, a fag, stuff like that. Sometimes they don't even mean it as an insult! This one guy I worked with used to honestly asked me, "Why are you such a ♥♥♥♥♥?" and all I could really do is answer, "I'm so sorry, I have no idea." I honestly believe he didn't mean it as an insult, I think I was just an enigma to him. He would look at me and tilt his head like I was some kind of strange creature from the sea that he was trying to identify.

So men call me too girly, and women call me too manly.

Any help?

This goes with the masculine shame. Men are embarrassed about their own masculinity and doubt it, so they take it out on others. I grew up being called names like this too. It hurts to be ostracized like that, but in reality, they are having issues.

About your work friend, I don't know the circumstances. Either you have problems being assertive or he's got issues. DO you have problems being assertive?

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by cylon

About your work friend, I don't know the circumstances. Either you have problems being assertive or he's got issues. DO you have problems being assertive?

Define "problems"

I have no shame, and I don't lie. People will abuse me and the best way I can describe my reaction is simply as non-reaction. Would this be considered a problem with assertiveness? I don't really care to tell people off or to verbally fight with them, in fact I can't think of a single instance where I lashed out in response to being attacked. I have lashed out when the TRUTH was attacked, or when someone ELSE was attacked however. Like in the past when someone would deny a blatent scientific fact I might get angry, or when society would abuse the helpless rejects. Sometimes I would get angry and lash out at these things. Sometimes at extreme unfairness and especially inconsistency I've gotten very angry. But not that I can think of where it was a matter of "personal honor" or "assertiveness" or whatever.

If I were to say something mean and hurt someone, and I could see that they were hurt and I could have stopped that from happening, then I would feel bad.

But when it comes to people attacking my character, my honest reaction is to yawn. This is not politically expedient and is apparently strange behavior. I can't tell you why I am the way I am, but I've just always been like this from my very first memory. I don't fight back, I'm a pacifist. I don't get hurt when someone attacks, at worst I'll feel bad for the person attacking me because I see how unhappy they are and sometimes how my non-reaction provokes them and I wish I could find a way to cheer them up (but after years of trying I know I can't, so now I just be myself almost all the time)

Well anyway that's my story, it would be great if you had some awesome insight for me, but I'm not holding my breath, no offense

It does occur to me that I don't know what the purpose of masculinity is. For instance I feel like I know the Divine Mother Goddess well, I feel like I have access to her immediately. But I can't feel a Father God and don't know what to look for. I hear people talk about it so much that I do feel like I'm missing out on something - but I guess the deaf man doesn't miss the sound of music. If you talk to me about the Divine Mother I'm psyched right up and I follow along the whole way, but start talking about God the Father and I get lost... which one is that again? I don't feel him...

[yossarian]

A great example that constantly happens to me when I'm "among the guys". This has happened since like 4th grade... all groups of guys have done it to be without fail.

One guy will do something insulting whatever it may be, like he'll insult me, and I'll just kind of stare at him and wait for the topic to change. Then he'll goad me and say,

"Cmon, fight back! Hit me! Tell me to F off!"

I'll usually shrug and reply, "What's the point?"

He will say, "To be a man! Punch me! Where are your balls?"

"I dunno, you tell me," I answer with a blank look.

This has happened to me so many times from so many different guys, usually in the context of a locker-room type atmosphere. Sports, work, recreation, stuff like that. Manly activities! I've basically had that exact conversation like 100 times, often repeating it over and over with the same people. I don't know what I'm missing but I guess when these guys look at me they don't see a complete human It must be like looking at a person without a head. I really have no idea.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Well anyway that's my story, it would be great if you had some awesome insight for me, but I'm not holding my breath, no offense

Dude you didn't give any SPECIFIC examples from your life! You're talking about being attacked all the time, like in a Kung-Fu movie? Are there guns involved?

I didn't see anything in your post that indicated you knew what qustion you were asking. It was just a hodge-podge of feelings and victim mentality.

Of course I was just like this, I thought I was the victim and the world was out to get me. If you want different results (cliche time) start doing something different. I'll PM you.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by cylon

Dude you didn't give any SPECIFIC examples from your life! You're talking about being attacked all the time, like in a Kung-Fu movie? Are there guns involved?

I didn't see anything in your post that indicated you knew what qustion you were asking. It was just a hodge-podge of feelings and victim mentality.

Of course I was just like this, I thought I was the victim and the world was out to get me. If you want different results (cliche time) start doing something different. I'll PM you.

It's not victim mentality. You read my bluntness as victimhood, I am totally peaceful with this reality. I am perfectly happy to Buddha-laugh at the people who question my beingness, which I do do, by the way. It's a laugh of understanding because I don't understand myself any more than they do. I just know that I Am and that is it. They ask me, "Why are you so passive?" and I shake my head slowly and shrug and say, "I have no freakin' idea, dude-bro-dude!" (Add more "dudes", "bros" and "freakins" the more manly the crowd gets! Also a random F bomb is very endearing among the Manly types, the less sense it makes in the sentence, the better!)

"If you want different results tart doing something different. "
- Mystery Method

My question is not about solving my particular "problem" which I don't really consider to be a problem. My question is about HOW TO BE A MAN. What does it mean? Am I *not* a man? I really only fit about 3 out of 10 of Steve's criteria. Would you say I am feminine or perhaps just neither?

The attacks are all verbal, just your basic insults and domination stuff - stuff you should be very familiar with if you read that PUA stuff which it sounds like you do. (You are using the tactics anyway all over this thread) Rarely do people get physical with someone who doesn't react strongly to their verbal barrage.

I'm not really interested in all the social domination stuff, but I am interested in the more ephemeral aspect of masculinity.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by yossarian

My question is not about solving my particular "problem" which I don't really consider to be a problem. My question is about HOW TO BE A MAN. What does it mean? Am I *not* a man? I really only fit about 3 out of 10 of Steve's criteria. Would you say I am feminine or perhaps just neither?

Allright, let's just put aside the actual circumstances. This is the important question. Now you've already listed a how you don't really feel connected to that part of you, but more the feminine side. I know just what you're going through.

This isn't something that happens overnight though. The good thing is, all the stuff you're talking about, is meaningless, and will die away when you embrace a new identity. No one is going to be "attacking you" and if they DID, your response would be MUCH different.

Check out the links I gave you, explore them for awhile and then let me know later, what you think.

[yossarian]

Let me put it this way I'm being totally honest, as honest as I know how to be.

"I'm one of the nicest guys I know."
"How come I always seem to give so much more than I get?"
"All I want is to be appreciated, is that asking too much?"
"I can never do it right."

Sound familiar?

My answer: No.

* He is the relative who lets his wife run the show.

Absolutely Not.

* He is the friend who will do anything for anybody, but whose own life seems to be in shambles.

No.

* He is the guy who frustrates his wife because he is so afraid of conflict that nothing ever gets resolved.

No.

* He is the boss who tells one person what they want to hear, then reverses himself to please someone else.

Hell no! Quite the opposite, most call me overly critical, and stubborn to boot!

* He is the man who lets people walk all over him because he doesn't want to rock the boat.

I am a total boat rocker, though my own rocking tends to be independent of the boat even though it may appear that I am on the boat.

* He is the dependable guy at work who will never say "no," but would never tell anyone if they were imposing on him.

Not really.. I try to help people but I have an easy time saying no. Some even call me lazy

It's just not me. I'm not a "nice guy". In fact I'm stubborn as a mule.. people will try to coerce me with things that go against what I want to do but it's basically impossible.. I suppose I would eventually break under torture but I think I could hold out for a good while

[cylon]

Read the last link I sent you.

[Pequod]

Just wanted to say that what Yossarian says is very familiar to me. It's almost as if he was describing me!

I'm wondering whether there are more man who don't feel compelled to do the 'social domination game' (in my opinion pointless ego-boosting), but yet feel definately masculine and are comfortable with it.

So that leaves the question: What is the essence of masculine energy?
Any takers?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Pequod

Just wanted to say that what Yossarian says is very familiar to me. It's almost as if he was describing me!

I'm wondering whether there are more man who don't feel compelled to do the 'social domination game' (in my opinion pointless ego-boosting), but yet feel definately masculine and are comfortable with it.

So that leaves the question: What is the essence of masculine energy? Any takers?

A man doesn't feel the need to be socially dominant. It happens as a result of his natural masculinity. And I think a big part of that, is accepting that you are enough, there's no NEED to dominate others. You HAVE all you need. No one can take anything FROM you. Men try to dominate others when they feel there is something scarce they must hold onto, that they must be recognized as top dog. Part of that is our natural competitiveness, but if you adopt more of an abundance mindset, and don't see others as a threat, a consequence of that is you will have a much "stronger" presence about you.

[Brutha]

By the way, Tyler Durden's RSD is basically the definition of how to be a modern darkworker. And Tyler Durden himself is an accomplished darkworker, or was at least the last time I read him. He's a brilliant guy, an evil genius.

There is nothing quite like shaming EVERYONE YOU EVER MEET into submission, using every manipulation tactic that can possible be discovered to take total control of all the people around you.

I don't think that is the case anymore.
The Blueprint Decoded isn't about manipulation tactics. It basically has no tactic that is focused on other people in it.

Now that topic would make another great and interesting blog post .

Unfortunatly I'm no good writer at the moment to cover those topics.

Steve it's because guys are looking for something. Women being important, they think women are the answer. So they may learn from PUAs and think that's the answer, but eventually, the truth comes out and they start realizing it's about authentic self-confidence, and masculinity, a sense of SELF.

I haven't read any books in the Pick-up Artist field (such as The Game),

It depends how broad you define the field. Robert Greene wrote about Seduction and is certainly in the Pua field (Seduction Scenario #1 - Rudius Media Message Board) and one of his books The 48 laws of Power is on your reading list.
The book certainly is no guide on getting woman but it still comes intellectually from that direction.
But I don't have your reading list to trace other influences

Most of the PUA stuff I've seen online seems a bit low on the consciousness scale though, so it isn't something I care to write about directly.

Most people are low on the consciousness scale. The advantage of the Pua people is that they are looking for growth and most people don't.
Because they look for growth they are part of the self help field and come around to read your posts.

[Fullcrum]

Tyler Durden is no longer a manipulative bastard at all. He used to be the definition of a really successful dark worker, but now he's seemingly repolarized to light as he found darkness too unfulfilling. It's all detailed in the BP - he had to "undo" all his old work and start fresh. His younger collegues surpassed him in skill because they hadn't polarized to darkness so strongly as he.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by yossarian

My question is about HOW TO BE A MAN. What does it mean? Am I *not* a man? I really only fit about 3 out of 10 of Steve's criteria. Would you say I am feminine or perhaps just neither?

Of course you ARE a man. Who cares about how many of Steve's criteria you fit. Steve's post is one way amongst many to be a conscious man.

Maybe you have predominantly round energy (the one they call "feminine"), maybe it's just a matter of personality... who cares... Just be who you are. Genuine is sexy

Originally Posted by Pequod

I'm wondering whether there are more man who don't feel compelled to do the 'social domination game' (in my opinion pointless ego-boosting), but yet feel definately masculine and are comfortable with it.

There are many of them. Not only who aren't interested in the social domination game, but also who totally don't resonate with Steve's post. And who are very manly and real men.

Reminds me of an anecdote. I was dancing tango argentino with one of those "round" guys. I was teaching him how to lead, and explaining all the tango stereotype masculinity stuff to him. "Show me that you're the MAN here, I told him, you want to lead and conquer me!" He looked at me with a very bored expression on his face and said "Not really, no..."

lol Oh it was priceless. And he was so right. Just because you don't fit such stereotypes doesn't mean you're less of a man.