Are Darkworkers Evil? (Blog)

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

You also attract others of similar polarity, sometimes as mentors.

Wow, that's what happened to me!

I used to be a true darkworker and I met a person who was even more strongly polarised. It was like I was Darth Vader and my "friend" was the Emperor. But, yeah, it was pretty "evil" stuff. After a year of helping each other develop we had a steadily growing number of followers. We both took daring decisions and courageously pursued out desires. I even quit uni to start a business, deeming knowledge to be no use to me! Eventually when we went separate ways I felt compelled to tell his girlfriend what a bast*rd he is. This fact is not in question. He was evil and I mean that in an entirely non-judgmental way. He really was good at getting all of his selfish desires satisfied with an efficiency and unwavering focus that I've never seen in anyone else.

I'm really unsure about what I did now but at the time I thought I was doing the right thing by "helping" his girlfriend, even though she loved him very much. Needless to say we haven't spoken at all since. He didn't even feel the need to take revenge for my betrayal. He's too good for that- he knew there was no point.

Since my act of "lightworking" I've been confused and lost. And because I recognised the darkworker in me but sensed something slightly wrong, felt the need to start threads about darkworkers here every few months or so. But,seriously, since I depolarised my life has lost its colour. I've lost all attraction for women, see little point in anything and have been choosing safe, unexciting life paths. But I think I'm gradually becoming a lightworker... bit by bit...it's interesting the way it happens. I just suddenly began to feel a degree of compassion towards others and the other day subjective reality introduced itself to me. I don't know if the fact I went vegan 10 days before that realisation is a coincidence...

Anyway, really good stuff Steve. I think darkworker/lightworker/npc is a great perspective.

[MasterD]

Originally Posted by Plato

Since my act of "lightworking" I've been confused and lost. And because I recognised the darkworker in me but sensed something slightly wrong, felt the need to start threads about darkworkers here every few months or so. But,seriously, since I depolarised my life has lost its colour. I've lost all attraction for women, see little point in anything and have been choosing safe, unexciting life paths. But I think I'm gradually becoming a lightworker... bit by bit...it's interesting the way it happens. I just suddenly began to feel a degree of compassion towards others and the other day subjective reality introduced itself to me. I don't know if the fact I went vegan 10 days before that realisation is a coincidence...

This is an awesome way of putting it, at some point darkworkers will tend to shift to being lightworkers. I experience this too; I am only 'alive' when I choose one of either sides (though my ethics pull me to the lightworker side more and more).

[demk]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

It wasn't until around late 1998 that I started shifting to the light side and away from the conflicted middle. After that my results began to soar again because I was using a more consistent polarity.

How do you know this wasn't because you were living by the laws of service and recieving more because of that if you never fully polarised as a darkworker?

Thanks for initiating this debate with these darkworker ideas btw because they have been very helpful to me. Even though I am not convinced it has pushed my thinking out of its usually idealistic and traditionally ethical ways. Its good to look at things from another point of view, at least to get a sense of what the other sees.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by MasterD

This is an awesome way of putting it, at some point darkworkers will tend to shift to being lightworkers. I experience this too; I am only 'alive' when I choose one of either sides (though my ethics pull me to the lightworker side more and more).

Yeah, I wonder why compassion suddenly kicks in this way. Hmmmm.

By the way, don't tell anybody this but I've just realised why Star Wars episode 3 and episode 6 are the only films that have made me cry.

[koke616]

Originally Posted by Dave Kaminski

This is also my general issue with the dark/light situation as well. Darkworkers seem to make the underlying argument that they are logically right and the lightworkers seem to have the underlying correctness in morality.

Since I can be sure that logic exists (in my current physical and mental state, including my limited spiritual ability) and cannot prove morality past the guilty feelings I have been told were programmed into me from Christianity and television (I partake in neither willingly anymore) should I therefore polarize to darkworking?

Light and dark are manufactured human ideals anywho. Do animals feel bad when they kill if only to make them survive? Do we really feel badly? Or is it a clockwork orange effect in which we've been so exposed that this is the right way to feel that it sticks?

Harry Potter is pretty cool, but voldemort can turn into a goddamn snake. Come on, he turns into a snake!

In the books, Riddle was never shown to be an animagus. teh movies blow

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Plato

Wow, that's what happened to me!

I used to be a true darkworker and I met a person who was even more strongly polarised. It was like I was Darth Vader and my "friend" was the Emperor. But, yeah, it was pretty "evil" stuff. After a year of helping each other develop we had a steadily growing number of followers. We both took daring decisions and courageously pursued out desires. I even quit uni to start a business, deeming knowledge to be no use to me! Eventually when we went separate ways I felt compelled to tell his girlfriend what a bast*rd he is. This fact is not in question. He was evil and I mean that in an entirely non-judgmental way. He really was good at getting all of his selfish desires satisfied with an efficiency and unwavering focus that I've never seen in anyone else.

I'm really unsure about what I did now but at the time I thought I was doing the right thing by "helping" his girlfriend, even though she loved him very much. Needless to say we haven't spoken at all since. He didn't even feel the need to take revenge for my betrayal. He's too good for that- he knew there was no point.

Since my act of "lightworking" I've been confused and lost. And because I recognised the darkworker in me but sensed something slightly wrong, felt the need to start threads about darkworkers here every few months or so. But,seriously, since I depolarised my life has lost its colour. I've lost all attraction for women, see little point in anything and have been choosing safe, unexciting life paths. But I think I'm gradually becoming a lightworker... bit by bit...it's interesting the way it happens. I just suddenly began to feel a degree of compassion towards others and the other day subjective reality introduced itself to me. I don't know if the fact I went vegan 10 days before that realisation is a coincidence...

Anyway, really good stuff Steve. I think darkworker/lightworker/npc is a great perspective.

Awesome story, Plato. I went through a similar situation.

I had a "partner in crime" when I was doing a lot of shoplifting. He and I were really bad influences on each other -- always escalating things. We'd draw maps of stores to decide how we were going to steal certain items. Rarely did we leave empty handed.

We drifted apart (no bad blood or anything), but we still keep in touch from time to time. Today he makes a great living as a professional poker player (not one you'd have seen on TV).

The power you felt on the darkworker side can definitely be had again on the lightworker side. In fact, you'll find that much of what you gained for yourself can be used to serve others. I built a lot of courage by stealing over and over again. After a while I could steal without my heart skipping a beat. That courage serves me today by making it easier to take action without fear, such as doing public speaking.

Rest assured you can meet all your needs (and beyond) on the lightworker side.

Being the hero and being the villain in your own life story are both very interesting and attractive paths. They both involve a lot of growth -- overcoming fear, coming into your power, learning self-discipline, etc -- but each in different ways.

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by demk

How do you know this wasn't because you were living by the laws of service and recieving more because of that if you never fully polarised as a darkworker?

The reason I cared about service was because I decided to start pursuing the lightworker path.

The next game I released was Dweep, which was a bigger success than any games I released before that. My primary motivation was to make something creative that people would enjoy. I even gave it lowball pricing for the initial release (only $9.95), so more people could afford it. I just wanted to share something unique with the world. I let go of any concerns about success or money. I went back to my roots of what attracted me to game dev in the first place -- pure creativity.

I was dead broke when I started the game and had to scramble to pay my bills, but within a year I was doing fine financially. The game also won a few awards and got many positive reviews.

I really wasn't thinking about polarity at the time, but this was definitely a major shift for me. The shift in my thinking allowed me to create a better quality product.

[mergisius]

Well, it's too hard for me to distinguish LW and DW.

From my perspective both of them are the same. LW does things for other people because he is happy than ALL are happy. DW helps people because it makes him happy. Any difference?

Some simple examples to put it in a more clearly way. If i buy some flowers for my girlfriend she is happy and it MAKES ME happy. So, i make here happy ONLY to make happy MYSELF. Or I help old woman to carry her bags. Well, I like then MY HELP is appreciated, I LIKE to have thankfulness from other, I LIKE to get attention, I LIKE to see other peoples happy, so I make them happy. I AM so SELFISH! It looks like i'm more DW.

But I can't get why LW isn't DW or DW isn't LW? What's the difference? For example LW makes charity firm. Now he help others a lot and it makes HIM HAPPY. It's selfish too.

LW is thinking that he is not alone.. he is a part of whole. I'm thinking the same. LW is serving the whole, because it makes HIM HAPPY, it makes HIM FEEL RIGHT, it makes HIM.. it makes HIM... I help others because it makes ME HAPPY.

Well, maybe I've to narrow view about it, but i think all people are very SELFISH.. I even can't think an example, then anybody did anything not to help himself.

[Blaiserboy]

I am not so sure that we have to be able to distinguish LW from DW........ perhaps the benefit is to enlighten ourselves about our mission and our personal relationship to the universe whether we do it by labeling others or by looking deep within..

Not all of us have the same background so as to know the different people being described........ but we all can take a few minutes to ponder the principles and apply them to our own paths...

I am really fascinated by this discussion. this is super......!

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Awesome story, Plato. I went through a similar situation.

I had a "partner in crime" when I was doing a lot of shoplifting. He and I were really bad influences on each other -- always escalating things. We'd draw maps of stores to decide how we were going to steal certain items. Rarely did we leave empty handed.

We drifted apart (no bad blood or anything), but we still keep in touch from time to time. Today he makes a great living as a professional poker player (not one you'd have seen on TV).

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about your partner in crime. Good for him. Poker is the epitomy of darkworking.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

The power you felt on the darkworker side can definitely be had again on the lightworker side. In fact, you'll find that much of what you gained for yourself can be used to serve others. I built a lot of courage by stealing over and over again. After a while I could steal without my heart skipping a beat. That courage serves me today by making it easier to take action without fear, such as doing public speaking.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Rest assured you can meet all your needs (and beyond) on the lightworker side.

Ironically what I want more than anything is to want something again.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Being the hero and being the villain in your own life story are both very interesting and attractive paths. They both involve a lot of growth -- overcoming fear, coming into your power, learning self-discipline, etc -- but each in different ways.

Where do I sign?

[borisg]

When I got to the animal eating section, I thought to myself "this is where most of your readers will drop out of Steve Pavlina and classify you as a looney vegeterian".

I admire the combination of guts and intellect you put on my screen week after week.

Boris

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

A simple example of the darkworker connection strategy:

Was Darth Vader connected?

Absolutely. He didn't isolate himself from others. His connection took the form of control. The more he controlled and dominated, the more connected he was. His Empire was his outlet for connection. He would feel disconnected if he wasn't in power.

He also connected to the dark side of the force and to the Emperor.

Switching polarities at the last minute ultimately killed him. Big mistake for a darkworker.

Darth was disconnected to feeling for others. That's what you have said about the DW approach -they don't care about what others get or if they are in the way to walk over them. That is being disconnected to treating people in a helpful way. That is what is disconnected. The disconnect is that the DW does not view others as being part of the same self and is an "other" to exploit.

So maybe being connected to other's is not the word to use. It's the sense of not thinking others are connected to a common well being. That it doesn't matter what other's experience around you because of you. That is detached from people. argh...

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by borisg

When I got to the animal eating section, I thought to myself "this is where most of your readers will drop out of Steve Pavlina and classify you as a looney vegeterian".

I am a looney vegetarian, so it's good that people should abandon the site if they can't handle that. I wouldn't want people to get a false impression.

Really the only people who get upset by animal cruelty language are those who are on a path to going veg themselves, but they're still resisting it. They have a strong sense of compassion for animals, but they aren't ready to act on it yet, so they keep doing what they've always done. Sometimes they'll backlash against me for pushing their buttons, but such a reaction really has nothing to do with me. The button is theirs.

Die-hard meat eaters who are congruent in their beliefs don't get offended by such statements. They simply disregard them. Such people have pushed through to a more consistent philosophy, so they see no need to justify or defend eating animals. They just do it and aren't bothered by what others think.

The only people who are bothered are those who are incongruent to begin with.

My intention isn't to push people to go veg. I try to push people to become more congruent, regardless of which way they fall. When I see people settling for an unconscious, inherited choice, I like to push a few buttons to help them reconsider that choice consciously.

[Joeschmoe]

Wow Steve. Well said, I agree completely. Before i went veg i was the one saying that we are meant to eat animals so its ok, humans are obviously omnivores, factory farming is cruel but i have to eat, why are those vegetarians always pushing people to give up meat (they aren't. They are pushing awareness, which felt pretty personal to someone who was in deep denial),etc.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

When I see people settling for an unconscious, inherited choice, I like to push a few buttons to help them reconsider that choice consciously.

Yeah, that's your special genius!

[yossarian]

I went through a darkworker phase myself, and this thread just reminds me of the Power.

I think the best vocalization of this is Darth Vader in The Empire Strikes Back.

"You don't know the POWER of the darkside, Luke."

There is definitely a very tangible power, and as you polarize you can feel it coursing through your body.

There is a power for the light side too, but it's a different kind of strength, and ultimately it is a stronger strength. It is the Ultimate strength, the strength of God.

Luke: "Yoda, is the darkside more powerful?"
Yoda: "No! Quicker, easier, more seductive."

[demk]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

The reason I cared about service was because I decided to start pursuing the lightworker path.

The next game I released was Dweep, which was a bigger success than any games I released before that. My primary motivation was to make something creative that people would enjoy. I even gave it lowball pricing for the initial release (only $9.95), so more people could afford it. I just wanted to share something unique with the world. I let go of any concerns about success or money. I went back to my roots of what attracted me to game dev in the first place -- pure creativity.

I was dead broke when I started the game and had to scramble to pay my bills, but within a year I was doing fine financially. The game also won a few awards and got many positive reviews.

I really wasn't thinking about polarity at the time, but this was definitely a major shift for me. The shift in my thinking allowed me to create a better quality product.

My point was that you couldnt know that polarising as a darkworker would have success apart from the service it provides if you are only judging from your own experience. You have only ever had the success when you were also service focused (as far as I can tell from reading your blog and such). How do you know hurting people really works to get you what you want? Its never worked for you and you have never polarised (which is supposed to work in your opinion but I still beleive it could never bring happiness because you are hurting your self every time you hurt another).

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by demk

My point was that you couldnt know that polarising as a darkworker would have success apart from the service it provides if you are only judging from your own experience. You have only ever had the success when you were also service focused (as far as I can tell from reading your blog and such). How do you know hurting people really works to get you what you want? Its never worked for you and you have never polarised (which is supposed to work in your opinion but I still beleive it could never bring happiness because you are hurting your self every time you hurt another).

Actually I got some pretty strong results on the dark side for a while, including graduating college with 2 degrees in 3 semesters. That didn't provide a service for anyone but me.

[demk]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Actually I got some pretty strong results on the dark side for a while, including graduating college with 2 degrees in 3 semesters. That didn't provide a service for anyone but me.

Thats not darkworking because even though it may not help anybody it certainly doesnt harm anybody to get what you wanted.

It actually probabaly did help many people though if you think about it. The college got a slightly higher overall grade in the league tables so if they measure the value of a college from the grades it produces in the US then your contribution could have pushed the mean average grades up quite high. All the tutors and professors want students who perform well in their classes also which could well have made them happy. There are probably many ways in which it helped, but who did you step on to get where you were going? If you didnt step on anyone or hurt anyone then it doesnt fit the criteria that I have gathered darkworking consists of.

[Cael]

Steve, while I agree with the polarization concept in general, I strongly disagree that DWs are fear and greed based. Particularly so since that your own examples do not seem to be congruent to the concepts. I might be missing some clues, but would love to hear more of how they are related.

When you were shoplifting, did you do that because you fear of something? Or because you greed of something? But you said you would give away most of the things you stole because you didn't need them. Hence the greed part of the equation should be moot then. But what did you fear?

As for when you were in college finishing your course in 3 semesters, what were your fears and your greeds?

Personally I feel that your article isn't potraying the truth for darkworking sides. Examples such as Enron, Iraq war sounds a lot like DW who went through DW-syndrome, and hence are ultimately failed examples of DW. Someone mentioned Genghis Khan here in this thread, and I think that is more of a correct image of a successful DW. Perhaps your article is meant to sway people into lightworking. Otherwise it seems a little biased.

Cheers.