The War on Ego (Blog)

[Steve Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

The War on Ego

[Angela]

From what I've read of Eckhart Tolle's works, I'm pretty sure he'd agree with everything you've said.

Maybe also that waging war on the ego is more ego.

[Mr.Mustache]

I don't see how you came up with the "war on ego", Steve. You seem to believe that when you give up identification with the ego you are unable to function correctly. You can't lose sight of ego completely unless you're dead or schizophrenic or something, I'm no aware of any spiritual master encouraging suicide. When one stops identifying with the ego you become aware of "your" individual self in a greater context, I'm just not aware of anyone claiming that you need abandon context completely. Or maybe I'm confused and that exactly what people mean when they say enlightenment?

[ns123]

not to answer for Steve... but I think he means to address the rest of us when we read about "letting go of our ego" that's what we think. We think to abandon the ego all together. I know I made this mistake.

Many people I've met that are also into sprituality or awareness often lament the fact that others are not as aware, often with tsk tsk disapproval. They lament that "those people" are all ego based, and that somehow, they are not as good, and that "those people" should let go of their egos and such.

I started to believe that too, but it just felt wrong to me. I think you are more aware of what "letting go of the ego" means - meaning, achieving a balance, not one extreme or another.

I think Steve's post really helps and illustrates the balance well to the rest of us that are still beginners in awakening or living life more consciously.

[krackato]

What about the environmental impact of helping humans and thereby helping us reproduce and create larger populations of humans that requires even more resources from the environment?

[Jonathan Mead]

I don't think when spiritual teachers are talking about losing the ego, they're talking about "Waging a War on it." That's a highly misguided interpretation.

What they're talking about is not sole identification with the ego. It's the realization that the "me" you think you are is not really the real "you." You are much more than your idea of your seperate self. You are actually the whole totality of everything, you are simply having it in the experience of a self-referential consciousness.

There is no war on the ego. The whole point is to transcend and include the ego. The whole must include the parts. When you trancsend the part, you don't reject it, because it creates the whole. You include it and accept it.

I'm sorry Steve, but your whole idea of the War on the Ego would be really easily misinterpreted because it misses the point of what ego-transcendence is about. It's not about killing the ego, it's about realizing you are more than your ego. I'm not saying that you didn't touch on this a little in your post, because I know you mentioned it's about including the ego, but aligning it with selfishness as well as selflessness. This is an essential realization.

If anyone is waging a war on the ego, they're greatly misinterpreting the teachings of mystics and spiritual teachers. I'm just worried that when you say that all these people have a war on the ego, that they're going to interpret spiritual traditions "going beyond the ego" as a bad thing. And that would be a great mistake. I guess it's up to people to figure things out for themselves though ultimately.

[KeithHandy]

Just because our individual identities are ephemeral or small does not mean we shouldn't enjoy them, make good use of them, or treat them well while we have them. We're given these small and singular identities for a good reason; being an individual allows you to do things that are very precise and focus. Think of ego or identity as a tool, or a special power, for achieving specific tasks, missions, algorithms, medical advances, and broadway musicals.

Steve used the analogy of the body and cells; how about another analogy, two knobs labeled "coarse" and "fine". One has a more dramatic overall effect, but the other one can zero in on something exact once you're in the ballpark. Our egos are like that fine-tuning knob.

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by krackato

What about the environmental impact of helping humans and thereby helping us reproduce and create larger populations of humans that requires even more resources from the environment?

Somehow this question keeps resurfacing for me all the time. Annoying me in my peripheral vision and holding me back. From the whole 'doom scenario' movement, which has some validity to it, I got the idea that more wealth=more damage to society=faster destruction.

If anything can stop a lightworker its the internal conflict between on one hand wanting to provide value and on the other hand having the belief that it slowly destroys society.

Does anybody have a reframe for me in this regard?
This belief isn't helping me, even if its true.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

Does anybody have a reframe for me in this regard?

Would you state that belief in a simple way, please? Is it that

Wealth = Destruction?

[The David]

Think of the 'ego' as the facade of a building. It is easy to attend a function and
take the material structure for granted. Think of church; you've got people who say 'the church is holy ground' and people who say 'WE are the church' juxtaposed. Why can't we just go to church, appreciate the people AND the building? There's nothing more 'spiritual' about meeting in a field than meeting in a building (except maybe if your church spends upwards of $900 on stained glass windows). And there is nothing about labels, rituals, and even religious organizations, that necessarily has to degrade spirituality. It's all the ego, and it's all valuable in its own way.

[/spontaneous rant]

[Dschaimz]

Hi Steve,

i found your blog on the war against ego a very interesting read.

especialy this:

"Have you ever felt the presence of the larger body of humanity in your life? Do you find that when you do things that work against the greater good, strong resistance appears, your results are sabotaged, and life feels like trying to run uphill on sand? Similarly, do you find that when you align yourself with the greater good, the larger body mysteriously provides you with extra help and assistance?"

made me think: thats the law of atraction. workling as it does. that made me smile.

Thank you.

Best regards,

James

[anamoly]

I appreciate your point of view Steve and I totally agree that waging war on the ego is more ego. In fact, I have often fallen into this trap myself and I deeply appreciate the reminder to not become identified (and thus more ego) with being ego-less or anything.

To me, transcending the ego is more about acquiring humility and finding my true self then anything else. It is impossible to alleviate the suffering of the world until every individual awakens. Of course, each individual has to make an individual choice to awaken and my consciousness is all I can take responsibility for.

One thing, that I think is important to keep in mind is to always be in a state of consciousness of either peace/acceptance, joy, or enthusiasm. The only thing I can do is to bring that state of consciousness into the actions I perform on a daily basis. As human beings, we are subservient to the whole. There is no other way. Everyone learns from each other. Life is a constant growing process, unfolding the breath of spirit in every small action.

I think it's important to remain mindful of everyone's differences. Apathy is a natural consequence of unconscious living - of not realizing that you are part of the whole. That is an unfortunate predicament that has to be appropriated the proper compassion (not I feel sorry for you in dignified better than thou compassion, but a feeling of love from within). We cannot blame unconscious human beings for being unconscious, we cannot resist it or have internal resistance to it. In doing so, we only strengthen that which is false and fall into the trap of unconsciousness and separateness.

[supertom]

Ahhhh good old ego, you cant live with it and you cant live without it.

[Apollia]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

Somehow this question keeps resurfacing for me all the time. Annoying me in my peripheral vision and holding me back. From the whole 'doom scenario' movement, which has some validity to it, I got the idea that more wealth=more damage to society=faster destruction.

If anything can stop a lightworker its the internal conflict between on one hand wanting to provide value and on the other hand having the belief that it slowly destroys society.

Does anybody have a reframe for me in this regard?
This belief isn't helping me, even if its true.

In my opinion, wealth = greater opportunity to help society. There are zillions of things you can do to help people if you have money, many of which aren't nearly as feasible if you don't have money.

For instance, rescuing people from having their houses foreclosed, just by buying them the house and giving it to them for free. Or, rescuing people from being buried in credit card late fees and overlimit fees by paying off their debts for them. With money, one could also fund things like research into technology to solve environmental problems. I'd love to do stuff like that if I were rich...

Anyhow, my outlook on wealth hasn't yet magically caused me get wealthy, but, I don't think I have any fundamental inner resistance to getting wealthy, at least.

Hope that helps.

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by Angela

Would you state that belief in a simple way, please? Is it that

Wealth = Destruction?

Yes.

In my opinion, wealth = greater opportunity to help society. There are zillions of things you can do to help people if you have money, many of which aren't nearly as feasible if you don't have money.

For instance, rescuing people from having their houses foreclosed, just by buying them the house and giving it to them for free. Or, rescuing people from being buried in credit card late fees and overlimit fees by paying off their debts for them. With money, one could also fund things like research into technology to solve environmental problems. I'd love to do stuff like that if I were rich...

Anyhow, my outlook on wealth hasn't yet magically caused me get wealthy, but, at least I don't think I have any fundamental inner resistance to getting wealthy.

Hope that helps.

Let me explain this particular belief a bit more.
Basically it states:
If I help society, I expend dollars, those dollars inevitably produce more pollution and damage to the environment, the more dollars (or value) is created in society the faster the pollution and damage pile up eventually leading us to a societal collapse (or at the very least a very very very nasty situation).

Now the problem I have with this belief is that 'dollars=pollution/damage to environment' belief is the crux of the whole argument. Now everything we produce requires a expenditure of energy, creating a laptop, creating a car, driving a car, using a laptop etc.. Most of the energy we produce is carbon based leading to more emission, a lot of it also causes direct environmental problems when they destroy nature for oil/coal. So the more value I create the more damage I do.

Can you see how this can give me some troubles?

[Apollia]

Ahh, I see now.

Originally Posted by Freelancer

Can you see how this can give me some troubles?

Yes.

In response to the above environmental concerns - I think maybe the best hope might be advances in technology.

The most exciting environmental thing I read about recently is this article about thorium nuclear reactors, which would apparently be tremendously safer than typical nuclear reactors, and could even break down highly radioactive waste into less radioactive waste. New age nuclear | COSMOS magazine It sounds like it might be very beneficial and safe (hard for me to say with certainty, though, since I'm a nonscientist).

Wealth is no doubt needed for research into creating a thorium reactor to be done. Hence, I'm inclined to see wealth as good, since it is probably crucial to help create really efficient and excellent alternatives to fossil fuels as well as alternatives to more dangerous forms of nuclear reactors.

Even without the development of a thorium nuclear reactor, though, wealth could buy a heck of a lot of solar panels, hydropower and wind energy stuff, etc. - as well as plant a ton of trees, and buy lots of land to turn into nature preserves... among all kinds of other possibilities...

Best wishes,
Apollia

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Actually I don't see why you say that you disagree with ego-detachment spiritual practices, because it seems that you totally agree with them. You just use a slightly different vocabulary.

Ok, maybe you put more emphasis on aligning the ego with the "whole body", and they put more emphasis on understanding the "whole body"...but really there isn't any fundamental difference.

Spiritual teachers such as Tolle, in my interpretation, do not advocate any War on Ego. (the first time I read the term is actually in your post). However, it is true that it is often interpreted by people in such a sense.
In that respect your post is very useful, it's a great reminder.

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by Apollia

Ahh, I see now.



Yes.

In response to the above environmental concerns - I think maybe the best hope might be advances in technology.

The most exciting environmental thing I read about recently is this article about thorium nuclear reactors, which would apparently be tremendously safer than typical nuclear reactors, and could even break down highly radioactive waste into less radioactive waste. New age nuclear | COSMOS magazine It sounds like it might be very beneficial and safe (hard for me to say with certainty, though, since I'm a nonscientist).

Wealth is no doubt needed for research into creating a thorium reactor to be done. Hence, I'm inclined to see wealth as good, since it is probably crucial to help create really efficient and excellent alternatives to fossil fuels as well as alternatives to more dangerous forms of nuclear reactors.

Even without the development of a thorium nuclear reactor, though, wealth could buy a heck of a lot of solar panels, hydropower and wind energy stuff, etc. - as well as plant a ton of trees, and buy lots of land to turn into nature preserves... among all kinds of other possibilities...

Best wishes,
Apollia

Yeah the technology might save us. The problem is that in the back of my mind I don't fully believe this.

My challenge is that because I don't fully believe that technology will save us I have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that no matter what I do all of my dreams, aspirations and the reality I live in can crumble by a outside force. Spiritual practice keeps this as a nagging feeling and not full blown pain.

Its one of those things that can throw me straight back to 'crapshoot low awareness' land. If I'm able to let this go it would help me a lot.



Ps. I'm basically stealing this thread right now. If any of the mods find this irritating, tell me to piss of and I'll create a new thread.

[Plato]

Thanks Steve

[tadeas]

While Steve writes that he disagrees with the ego-transcending approach, he basically goes on and writes about transcending it, e.g. not "getting rid of it", but expanding our sense of self to embrace the whole of existence.

Although there are thousands of books written about how things look from such a perspective, it won't be possible for us to live and verify such a reality for ourselves, until a certain transformation occurs in us.

So to be able to see ourselves and one's own limited self as an expression of the one thing, and to live in such a condition, what do we have to do?

There are a lot of approaches, but the fastest and most effective way is deep meditation.

If we only analyze our own actions, but at the same time are attached to who we think we are and what we do, it is not an effective approach.

It might be deceptively simple to rationaly see how we're not a limited self, how we're part of the organism, but again, to live this and to know this without additional rational mindframe is a truly different thing.

For such a change in perception to occur, we need to go deep into ourselves everyday, to touch the silent awareness that is beyond our mind and thoughts, and to gradually become capable of living from this place of inner stillness - with joy and love.

If we want to really transform ourselves, our perspective, we need to work on this everyday, consistently, regularly. That means we need a set of tools that are effective and that work. Well, I've already mentioned deep meditation and I cannot recommend it enough - give it a shot. It takes a few weeks, but rather days to see the results.

Take care and be smart - meditate

[Apollia]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

Yeah the technology might save us. The problem is that in the back of my mind I don't fully believe this.

Yes, I guess technology alone might not fix everything - even though I do think it could help a lot. But, I have to agree with Steve's blog post, apathy to the plights of one's fellow human beings is a serious problem.

However, one thing that cheers me up is realizing that if you compare our present era to preceding periods in history, in numerous ways, things have never been better. The average person in a first-world country in many ways lives better than the average king from centuries ago. I would say the overall trend for humanity, in light of history, seems so far to be improvement.

My challenge is that because I don't fully believe that technology will save us I have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that no matter what I do all of my dreams, aspirations and the reality I live in can crumble by a outside force.

I know the feeling.

Spiritual practice keeps this as a nagging feeling and not full blown pain.

Yes, similar situation here. Weird synchronicities/coincidences, which I see as possible evidence that maybe we truly do live in a "subjective reality", cheer me up a lot.

(...)

Ps. I'm basically stealing this thread right now.

If so, then so am I, I guess.

If any of the mods find this irritating, tell me to piss of and I'll create a new thread.

Yep, I too would be happy to take this elsewhere if necessary. Although I'm not sure I have much else to add.

Best wishes,
Apollia

[joylangtry]

Extremely well timed for me, synchronistically. Thank you so much, Steve.

Like Plato, I planned to just say "thank you", but something else occurred to me.

Tolle has stated that he has been able to detach from his own ego. I can't link to a quote as I'm paraphrasing from memory of one of the recent Oprah class audio downloads. He said something like he "left his ego behind". It seems that this really works for him, and is in keeping with his spiritual/physical alignment.

Steve, I think you have presented the answer for so many who resonate with A New Earth, yet feel like the ego is where all the fun is at... and that maybe by raising their consciousness, they must give up all that fun. If one can align one's ego with their individual mission/passion/talent/path, however, the fun is enhanced exponentially. The challenge is becoming aware of the ego, and able to recognize when it's leading one into fear/anger/hurt and all the rest of the protective yet disabling feelings.

I think Oprah needs to Skype you for her teleclass!

[CeciL]

Save resources let people commit suicide... If you are a hardcore environmentalist take your self out and save tons of resources. It is the most you could do to save the earth unless you create some Pulitzer prize invention.

[Steve Pavlina]

Interestingly, someone from Oprah contacted me a few weeks ago, asking if I'd be interested in helping to teach Tolle's material via their webcasts. I turned them down though. I'm sure they'll find plenty of people who can do that sort of thing; it's not a role I need to fill personally.

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by CeciL

Save resources let people commit suicide... If you are a hardcore environmentalist take your self out and save tons of resources. It is the most you could do to save the earth unless you create some Pulitzer prize invention.

Hmmm I'll consider it...

Wtf dude??

[ns123]

I think there is a way for humans to maintain a harmonious life that is also in balance with the environment and nature. The fact that many choose not lead this life does not mean this balance does not exist. The fact that I'm not exactly sure how to achieve this balance doesn't mean it doesn't exist either.

I think that monetary wealth, like any tool, is just that. If you have a very beautiful and sturdy sword, and you use that sword to mow down your family, is it the sword's evil? If you use it to defend yourself and your family from an attack, is the sword the hero?

I don't think wealth=wasteful consumption/destruction. I believe there is a way to achieve wealth without destroying everything. What exactly that way is, I don't know and can't name for you. But just like belief in the Universal Mind, I still believe that it exists and that it will be discovered.

[Jonathan Mead]

I recently wrote a blog about this subject, a few minutes ago actually. I hope to elucidate a little about what it means to transcend and include the ego, instead of waging a war to kill the ego.

Transcending and Including the Ego | Jonathan Mead

I appreciate your thoughts.

[yossarian]

The only thing you need to do in regard to the ego is become aware of it in the present moment.

Nothing else needs to be said.

Awareness is the answer, simple as that. I don't know why people make it so complicated - just strive to be aware.

Eckhart Tolle certainly doesn't make war on the ego, all he does is become aware of it. All he advocates is becoming aware of it.

[yossarian]

Tolle has stated that he has been able to detach from his own ego. I can't link to a quote as I'm paraphrasing from memory of one of the recent Oprah class audio downloads. He said something like he "left his ego behind". It seems that this really works for him, and is in keeping with his spiritual/physical alignment.

This really isn't accurate.

Oprah asked Tolle, "So you have no ego?" and he said, "I don't think in those terms - if I were to start thinking of myself as a person with no ego, that would just be another false role that blocks my awareness from who I truly am."

When Tolle says, "My ego died," he means it in the same weak sense as when Steve Pavlina says, "How to win every argument." It's just a verbal shortcut and not specifically true - you can't take it at face value.

You don't kill your ego just like you don't win an argument.

All you do is become aware of the ego so that now you are the master rather than the slave. You make it conscious so that it works for you rather than working on you.

You do the same thing with the intellect - intelligence is a wonderful thing, but it should be the slave not the master.

It's just like using both subjective reality and objective reality at the same time. You make the beliefs work _for_ you, you don't let the beliefs constrain you. By becoming aware of the ego in all it's forms, you automatically are making it work for you rather than having it constrain you.

Awareness is the alpha and the omega.

[Fullcrum]

Awesome post - a great new way of thinking (for me).

This'll go hand in hand with my 1-week positivity challenge. Wooo, we are all like cells in a body. I love biology .