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| Steve Pavlina Discuss ideas, articles, and podcasts from StevePavlina.com. New threads are automatically generated for Steve's latest blog posts. |
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| | #1 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Mar 2007
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However, the rest of us could have some fun just guessing what they are! Then when the info comes out in a few months, we could see how close - or how far off we were from guessing those principles! Whoever gets the closest wins! Here is my quick stab at it. Four to start with. - Principle of Desire - you must want it, and you must figure out why you want it. - Principle of Momentum - you keep doing what you've been doing because you've built up the habit of going forward. This refers to daily taking action toward your goals. - Principle of Honesty/Integrity - by being honest with yourself on where you are, you are able to figure out where you are and move from there. - Principle of Creativity/Imagination - Learning to see what does not yet exist so that you can see your life as you wish it, and also use it to creatively find solutions to get your life where you wish it. What other principles could be considered? What would be the 7 independent principles that are fundamental to all Human Development? Last edited by seeker5; 03-04-2008 at 06:47 PM. | |
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| | #2 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New South Wales, Australia (GMT+10)
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My initial and very preliminary prediction would be that the principles will be conceptually like the ones Tony Robbins' uses, but much more universal because, from what I've seen, Steve is better at seeing patterns then Tony is. A big clue is where Steve mentioned that it would even apply to religions. For me, this means it probably has something to do with universal quests for certain qualities. Tony Robbins has a model very similar to this, but I don't feel it goes deep enough. It gets caught up in what I call "effect" logic. What that means is that you give a label to the "effect" created by a higher level "cause", and then mistake that "effect" for It's like saying that obesity is an "effect" that needs to be fixed. Not so. Obesity is caused by lack of exercise and poor eating (yes, there are some exceptions, but those are extreme cases). You can try to fix obesity with pills and positive thinking, but if you keep fostering the conditions that let obesity flourish (lack of exercise) and feed your body with the wrong food, you'll make no progress. Address the "cause", and your "effect" is but a relic of the past, and your body will begin to reflect your new diet choices. Granted, you could see your lack of exercise and diet choices as another "effect" (perhaps the "true" cause is a mindset thing, the LoA, or something else), but I was just giving an example. Anyway, that's my thinking. Coming up with an actual model could be pretty difficult. I may give it a try the next time I feel contemplative. |
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| | #3 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006
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The Principle of Ben and Jerry: People will tell you it's four servings, but it's up to you to choose how much you eat. The Principle of San Francisco Summer: Always take a sweater everywhere (or a towel). The Principle of My Brother Allen: The madder you are, the wronger you probably are. The Grandpa George Principle: It'll feel better when it quits hurtin'. The Moi Principle: Take 100% responsibility, let go of what there is to let go of, and generate what would make a difference. |
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| | #4 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006
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Hi Angela - I really did LOL when I read that - do I win a prize? | |
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| | #6 (permalink) |
| Master Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Desire, honesty, and creativity are all sub-elements of some of the principles, but I don't think any of these are the roots themselves. Desire and Honesty are titles of a couple subsections in the book. In the book I have a subsection called Flow, which is basically the same as momentum, but it's not a root principle by itself. Incidentally, Tony Robbins' 6 human needs (certainty, uncertainty, connection/love, significance, growth, and contribution) can all be derived from the 7 principles in my book (actually from just 4 of them). His model is a good stab, but it has some important gaps. For example, honesty/integrity doesn't necessarily emerge from this model (at least not very directly). Nor can you really derive his personal power and state manangement ideas from these 6 needs, not without really stretching them. Tony's human needs model is also based on principles that inherently conflict with each other; he's totally upfront about that when he explains them. For example, certainty and uncertainty are opposites, pulling us in different directions. I found a great way to resolve this problem, revealing a place of alignment, not inner conflict. If a model is internally conflicted, I would say that means there are still deeper levels to be explored. Even so... I think Tony's human needs model is brilliantly insightful and one of the best available. He definitely hit upon the most important pieces, and his principles are general enough to be universal and accurate enough to be practical. Unfortunately his model is a bit muddled because the concepts he picked aren't orthogonal to each other. They overlap in many ways (esp. significance and contribution), so it's not as elegant as it could be; it's neither irreducible nor collectively complete. |
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| | #7 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Netherlands
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Job well done I guess. | |
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| | #9 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Mar 2007
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That was very interesting reading what you had to say about Tony Robbins's 6 human needs model. He's been working on writing a book on those 6 human needs for the past ten years, so perhaps the problems you've pointed out are a reason why his book's release date has kept being pushed back year after year for all of these years. Last edited by seeker5; 03-04-2008 at 05:19 PM. | |
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| | #11 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007
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My quick stab: Acceptance: In any situation complete acceptance is necessary for motivated, consistent and joyful action. No matter how bad the situation you must accept all the possibilities and probabilities you have to deal with. Otherwise, you block possible solutions that are too difficult or frightening or you don't anticipate outcomes which you fear. Without complete acceptance you will always have an inaccurate view of reality, even to a small to degree this can cause needless pain. The key to acceptance is finding your center, your place of reference. Meditation can develop this ability in the long term, in the short term gravitating towards thoughts and feelings that you fear and understanding them will allow you to see beyond them, to see the way reality truly is. Desire: Understanding what drives you is fundamental in taking meaningful action. Acceptance allows you to see your desires clearly without judgment but desire itself is something that must be cultivated beyond a mere acknowledgment of its existence. It is important to differentiate between desire and craving. Craving is desire applied under inaccurate beliefs because of a lack of acceptance. Desire isn't clingy, it is both spontaneous and ordered. Imagination is the key to unlocking desire. When you imagine taking a desirable action it allows a person to understand how the desire can be fulfilled and what portion of your being you are trying to express. Awareness: Now that you have accepted yourself and allowed your creative desires to flow you must direct that energy in an efficient and effective way. You must be aware of what you know and what you don't. Imagination, again, can be useful in examining the road ahead and also the tools you possess. Raising your awareness is a skill that can be focused in the short term by trial and error, if you start walking down the road you are bound to make progress. In the long term various heuristics can be developed, however, reason can only take you so far without experiencing failure and success, so there is an important balance. Action: Action is not simply an offshoot of desire. Desire is the gas but (effective) action is the correct combustion. Awareness is the steering so it also cannot fully accomplish the skill of action. Action is distinct from reaction, reaction is a poor expenditure of energy because it is focused on perceived dire threats. Even in situation where action must be taken quickly reaction is to explosive and unfocused to be of any good. Action allows awareness to be raised by immersing yourself in possibilities and forcing an outcome. The ability to immerse yourself in possibilities and outcomes consistently is action. Thats all I got. |
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| | #12 (permalink) |
| Master Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| There's definitely a principle that gives rise to knowledge/information, but I wouldn't call knowledge a root by itself. Where does knowledge actually come from? How do you evaluate a piece of knowledge? What is the point of knowledge in the first place? Why bother learning anything? How do we even acquire knowledge? There are virtually endless paths to explore as you try to find your way down into the roots. You can spend weeks just criss-crossing among the branches by asking how and why questions. |
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| | #13 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Mar 2007
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| Principle of understanding yourself: Understanding what triggers you, who you are, what you want, what you desire, is very important. The more you understand yourself, the better off you are in terms of personal development and growing. Somehow, I want to add "principle of respect", as in respect for nature, for others, respect for the laws of nature, respect for the law of attraction, respect for the law of healthy eating, respect for the law, etc. The more respect a person has for what is out there, then the better able they are to align themselves with the correct principles to develop themselves. Last edited by seeker5; 03-04-2008 at 06:59 PM. |
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| | #14 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Mar 2007
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This sounds exciting actually, to be sitting there for weeks (and months) thinking about all of these questions, and all that thinking exploration you did. Last edited by seeker5; 03-04-2008 at 07:14 PM. | |
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| | #17 (permalink) |
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Mr.Mustache: Steve stated that Desire wasn't a root principle in of itself, but a subset of a root principle. Ok, more thinking on this. I strongly think that one of the seven root principle has to be this: Principle of Responsibility: Called the "moi" principle by Angela, that is taking responsibility for your life. You can do this on a continuum - if you take 10% responsibility, you're still more developed then if you took 0% responsibility, and thus able to affect your own life slightly more. If you are constantly blaming others for the situation in your life, then you aren't going to be able to develop yourself as much as if you take more responsibility. On the other end of the scale, by believing and practicing subjective reality, you really take fully 100% responsibility for everything, even say the war in Iraq even though in the objective sense you had nothing to do with it. This principle also refers to the first habit in the 7 Habits by Steven Covey - be proactive. To be proactive, you have to understand the principle of responsibility - the ability to respond. This is a lot of fun thinking of this stuff. Steve, I wonder how you learned to effectively think deeply about these things - did you read specific books to learn how to think deeply, or is it something that comes to you naturally after a decade of learning and thinking about personal development material? |
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| | #18 (permalink) |
| Master Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Responsiblity is a subsection in the book, as is initiative (i.e. being proactive). Neither are roots though. Why be responsible? Why take the initiative? Why do those things matter? Curiosity derives from a couple of the principles, but it's also not a root principle. Why be curious? Why does curiosity matter? What gives rise to it? What's the deeper motive behind curiosity? I guess you could say I think deeply about stuff like this because I have nothing better to do. I've always been attracted to problems that were interesting and challenging. Mapping consciousness seemed like a worthwhile pursuit because it has the potential to endure. If I die and retain some form of consciousness after death, I'll still be able to use this model to continue growing in the afterlife. I don't even need a physical body to apply it. I just need to be conscious. |
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| | #20 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jan 2008
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I feel a strong presence of Erin's influence here The principle of unity: we're all one. The principle of source: remember where we came from The principle of growth - or to be even more precise - The "Circle of life" principle: can't explain, but it should be clear what i mean. That's all so far... |
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| | #21 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007
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Here's my guess list: 1. Principle of Fundamental Element of Reality: everything is a pattern. Our thoughts are patterns, and so is every atom of our body. 2. Principle of No Separation: patterns always interact each other. The more meaningful the interaction, the better. 3. Principle of Expression: patterns always has the objective of expressing itself. The more expressive the patterns (thoughts, atoms), the better. 4. Principle of Expansion/Inclusion: patterns need to expand. The more inclusive the pattern, the better. 5. Principle of Low Entropy: patterns love order. That's it. It's exhaustive. I think the additional 2 that Steve has is just a fluff |
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| | #22 (permalink) | ||
| Family Member Join Date: Mar 2007
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Quote:
Last edited by seeker5; 03-05-2008 at 01:06 PM. | ||
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| | #23 (permalink) | |
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| | #24 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
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what an interesting thread. It's a great personal development exercise because -it make us think about what is important for us -it will allow us to compare with Steve when the book is released and thus have great insights; Here is what I think are important principles that we can find at the root of many people's problems : -Identity : Who are you? What do you identify with? Do you believe in oneness or duality? The sense of identity we have can be either very empowering or disemporewing. -Acceptance : Do you accept and surrender to what IS or do you resist the present moment in some way? -Clarity : Do you know what you want or are you not sure? Do you know your values? Being clear about what we want allow us to direct our energy efficiently. -Congruence : Do you have any internal contradictions? any contradicting beliefs? Are you very polarized? do you live according to your values or is there a gap between what you think and what you do? The more congruent you are, the bigger your flow of energy. -Connection : Can you share, vibe and have the relationships you want? Are you connected to your true sense of Self? Can you learn technical knowledge from other people/sources? Do you feel a connection between you and the rest of the world? -Freedom : Do you own all your personnal power/energy or do you give away some of it? Do you express yourself fully or do you care about what people think? Do you make your choices freely or there is external pressure? Do you take 100 % responsibility or do you blame others for your life situation? |
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| | #25 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: BC, Canada
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I'm curious to see if Polarity will be covered, or if Steve dropped the idea. Other principles that I think he might cover are: - Awareness - The Illusion of Time - Subjective Reality - Duality - How to Cook Brown Rice - How to Lose at Chess and of course - Bear Bombing |
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| | #26 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Netherlands
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I spend just 10 minutes thinking about those questions and kept getting different answers. For instance why should you be knowledgable? - To figure out the world. Why? - To better predict what happens in the future. What if you create the future? - Ugh bombed that one. Lets try a different one, What if all reality is oneness, is there anything to know? - Yes you can know concepts, boxed in things or form. Why do you want to know these things? - To create more depth in your being Now where getting somewhere. The thing is this is just one path amongst a gazillion different ones. I've got no time to figure out the roots right now... I might meditate on this in the future... |
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| | #27 (permalink) | |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007
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While the list seem to be unrelated to personal development, it actually has everything to do with it. From those fundamental principles, many of the other traits/principles suggested in this thread can be derived. For example:
What do you think? Can you disprove it? | |
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| | #29 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jan 2008
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| Erin, I'm not a native English speaker, it's a bit hard for me to catch the precise indirect meaning of your words. So, Erin, or anyone who can, explain me the exact meaning. Please!... P.S. Erin, can you read my real name? I can tell, it should be perfectly easy for you. But we, fans, always want "wonders"... They feed our beleif in our heroes |
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| | #30 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
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1. Principle of thought.(or no thought) A bit the power of now and a bit intention manifestation perhaps 2. Principle of expansion(or growth) You can not not grow! :-) Serious, try to do something to not grow(I do think you have to believe in reincarnation to believe in this "principle") 3. that's all I got |
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