Raw Food Diet - Day 7 (Blog)

[Steve Pavlina]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Raw Food Diet - Day 7

[Bender.PUA]

Where did the idea for raw diet emerge from? Our ancestors? Sure they eat raw, and fruits, other apes eat like that. If you read "The Naked Ape" by Desmond Morris you would notice a theory of his that much of our past time, our ancestors spend on the beaches and in the water. Not to go into details but, our noses are shaped for swimming, newborn baby's can dive and swim, the fist is soft and gentle for touching the bottom searching for food.... there is a list of "body evidence" that we spent, as a specie, a long time in the water.
To me that is perfectly logical, it just clicks.

So perhaps the BEST, most suitable diet should consider this? Obviously the raw is close....

[Bender.PUA]

Yesterday my brother eat this dinner, and I got this. Guess this is making an impact on me afterall.
Damn you, I bought 3 kg of fruit today, the lady at the store was giving me a weird look. Like.... the beer stand is over there, you got confused young man.

[seeker5]

What's the different between vitamix and a regular blender?

I see the vitamix cost several hundred dollars while a regular blender can cost $40. Can a regular blender be used to create the smoothies and the salad sauces displayed on the blog?

[wulph]

Originally Posted by seeker5

What's the different between vitamix and a regular blender?

"The Vitamix can turn a block of wood into sawdust without breaking a sweat." (here)

Regular blender works fine for these smoothies, but you might have trouble if you use frozen bananas.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by wulph

"The Vitamix can turn a block of wood into sawdust without breaking a sweat." (here)

Regular blender works fine for these smoothies, but you might have trouble if you use frozen bananas.

Thanks, that's a funny article...! So, if I don't plan on using frozen stuff or nuts, then I can use a blender? I'm interested in making the smooties and salad dressing Steve uses.

[mlc82]

Continuing from the "protein" debating in previous threads, there is one thing that's always stood out to me- In all of the nutrition classes/seminars that I've attended, there's always someone who loves to talk about the "dumb bodybuilders" and how they eat way too much protein, and how it doesn't do them any good. Yet I've also noticed that every speaker who has said this has also looked nothing like a bodybuilder. A few have had the "in really good athletic shape" look, but nothing even slightly resembling a classical bodybuilding physique (referring to the look portrayed by anyone from Steve Reeves up to Frank Zane and Arnold- those guys are who I look up to, I personally wouldn't want to look like a current bodybuilding champ).


Edit: sorry if this is OT for the subject as I know Steve isn't into bodybuilding, but I figured the same debate would carry over into the latest Raw Food thread.

[VacMan]

From what I saw in "Shannon's" story my guess is that his muscularity comes from a few things...

Not related to a raw diet:

1.) He lifted weights, and played football in the past
2.) He ate a ton of food, and a lot of protein in the past

Because of this he built a really great muscle base under his fat, even though he says he was overweight.

When you develop that type of muscularity, especially if you have good genetics to back it up, those muscles don't just disappear overnight.

This concept is commonly referred to as "muscle memory."

When Shannon begin weight lifting, and eating a lower calorie diet, his body started kicking into gear.

It started to retain or even build back his muscle mass at a level that would not be possible without his previous training and muscular development due to his past high calorie, high protein diet.

I would contend that this type of muscularity would not have been possible, if he had not built it up in the past.

In fact, I would bet that if he keeps up his current diet, he'll gradually loose muscle over time.

My guess is that those pictures were taken at his "prime."

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by mlc82

Continuing from the "protein" debating in previous threads, there is one thing that's always stood out to me- In all of the nutrition classes/seminars that I've attended, there's always someone who loves to talk about the "dumb bodybuilders" and how they eat way too much protein, and how it doesn't do them any good. Yet I've also noticed that every speaker who has said this has also looked nothing like a bodybuilder.

There was a gym where I belonged that had a non-muscular-looking trainer. The other trainer told me that he was a vegetarian, so he didn't gain a lot of muscles. However, when it came to actually lifting, the trainer told me how amazed he was at how much strength he had for his size.

Perhaps, then the mass of muscle does not have a 1-to-1 correlation to the strength of the muscles? Perhaps it's possible for some smaller muscles to be stronger then some bigger muscles?

[Steve Pavlina]

I think the issue with "dumb bodybuilders" is commenting on the fact that while many people would want to look like one, they wouldn't necessarily want to experience a bodybuilder's health (with some exceptions). It's sort of a values issue: getting strong vs. getting healthy. It's certainly possible to have one without the other.

As far as my values are concerned, I like a reasonable degree of functional strength, like being able to do at least 20 push-ups and lift heavy items overhead. But I find Bruce Lee's build more appealing than Arnie's.

[VacMan]

Originally Posted by seeker5

There was a gym where I belonged that had a non-muscular-looking trainer. The other trainer told me that he was a vegetarian, so he didn't gain a lot of muscles. However, when it came to actually lifting, the trainer told me how amazed he was at how much strength he had for his size.

Perhaps, then the mass of muscle does not have a 1-to-1 correlation to the strength of the muscles? Perhaps it's possible for some smaller muscles to be stronger then some bigger muscles?

Seeker5,

It's very possible to be less muscular than someone yet stronger than them.

There's a difference between strength training and training for size, or to get "toned," or "shredded."

Hypertrophy is what triggers muscle growth.

But your CNS (Central Nervous System) controls a lot of your strength.

There is a correlation in the fact that people who are stronger usually are bigger. And as you get stronger you usually get bigger.

But you don't necessarily need to be big to be strong.

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by seeker5

There was a gym where I belonged that had a non-muscular-looking trainer. The other trainer told me that he was a vegetarian, so he didn't gain a lot of muscles. However, when it came to actually lifting, the trainer told me how amazed he was at how much strength he had for his size.

Perhaps, then the mass of muscle does not have a 1-to-1 correlation to the strength of the muscles? Perhaps it's possible for some smaller muscles to be stronger then some bigger muscles?

I think it mainly depends on how you train... Someone who has never touched a weight before and sets out to be a bodybuilder can very well build an impressive physique without really impressive strength to match on the usual "strength judgement" exercises (Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift). Most chubby powerlifters could generally annihilate a "Greek God looking" bodybuilder in a strength competition and don't have the same visible muscular physique- they're usually big guys, but also usually look like fat big guys. The really impressive ones are bodybuilders who started off powerlifting, then moved into bodybuilding after years of training for strength and building a huge, muscular base.

I'd imagine the vegetarian trainer has the more chubby look than the "skinny wimp" look, and probably trains more like a powerlifter, specifically for strength over muscularity/aesthetics. Gaining muscular strength also requires disciplined eating for the proper nutrients for muscle growth- of course there's the occasional genetic freak who's the size of a grown man and benching 300lbs at the age of 14, but most of us mortals have to work our butts off at that sort of thing

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I think the issue with "dumb bodybuilders" is commenting on the fact that while many people would want to look like one, they wouldn't necessarily want to experience a bodybuilder's health (with some exceptions). It's sort of a values issue: getting strong vs. getting healthy. It's certainly possible to have one without the other.

As far as my values are concerned, I like a reasonable degree of functional strength, like being able to do at least 20 push-ups and lift heavy items overhead. But I find Bruce Lee's build more appealing than Arnie's.

I don't think bodybuilding itself is unhealthy at all, unless taken to an extreme or supplemented with heavy drug use. Everyone likes to talk about Arnold's heart issues, but meanwhile other well known older bodybuilders like Dave Draper and Frank Zane are getting up there in age and still healthy and in incredible shape.

I'd prefer the Frank Zane look myself, with just a little more mass than he usually carried

[Fullcrum]

These are sales pics of Zane at age 64 with his leg blaster.

Frank Zane Equipment Leg Blaster

Like, WTF? How do you DO that? That's an awesome body for that age, look at his arms. And he was a "smaller" body builder (more ripped though) than average.

[ReallyGoodIdeas]

Amazing! Steve I love the synchronicity!!

I'd been about 70% raw vegan until my now husband moved in last April. He's English and is used to the standard english diet based on grains/dairy and meat. Vegetables are used purely as a garnish over there! It became quite hard to stick to my diet since he loves cooking, and rapidly started making dinner.

We've been in the UK for Xmas and just got back. I stepped on the scales and realised that I've put on 6kg (13.2lb) since he'd moved in. My clothes were not fitting me at all by the time we came home. So I decided to - cold turkey (!) - go raw vegan again.

We got back Saturday night and already I've lost 2.5kg (5.5lb). I feel brilliant and have more energy than I've had in months. I'm already feeling heaps thinner and more toned. We've been working on a patio so I've been moving gravel and doing a fair bit of physical work without any strain at all.

It's incredible that I've opened up your blog and found that Steve and others are also on this eating plan. New Years resolution?

I started raw vegan 18 months ago and felt SO much better then. It was truly the best I'd ever felt in my life. I'm back there now, feeling great, less than a week after feeling so bloated, tired and icky. It's a brilliant way of life.
More power to you Steve!!

[Jacko Green]

but it’s certainly possible to build muscle on this diet too if that’s important to you.

It's possible to build muscle on a diet of fast food and budweiser too. What most find though is that it doesn't work. Personally, I know that a low protein diet results in slow recovery from exercise and from injuries. This isn't because I red it somewhere. I tried to live on 50 grams of protein a day and didn't like the consequences.

[beel]

Originally Posted by Jacko Green

It's possible to build muscle on a diet of fast food and budweiser too. What most find though is that it doesn't work. Personally, I know that a low protein diet results in slow recovery from exercise and from injuries. This isn't because I red it somewhere. I tried to live on 50 grams of protein a day and didn't like the consequences.

where you eating a raw vegan diet?

[mlc82]

I don't see how the amount of protein in a typical raw diet (I'm guessing average 50g a day) could work well for muscle building and recovery either, and I don't mean for bodybuilding but for someone working out for general health and fitness reasons like Steve is.

The best analogy I have ever heard on this subject went like this: Imagine you're having a house built. You can hire the best carpenters, and the best architect, and buy the highest quality tools to build with, but then if you only give them a board and two nails to work with, no one is going to accomplish building much of anything. Even if a raw food diet provides the greatest, most efficient protein sources in the world, if you aren't getting enough of it, then you're not only limiting your potential for progress, but also increasing your chance of overtraining and injury (tearing a rotator cuff, or nearly doing so, is truly a nasty experience!). Not a good combo!

I know you have a pretty good idea of what you're doing Steve, but be careful!

[DRK]

Arnold Schwarzeneggar's recommendation in his body building book is 1 gram of protein for every two pounds of body weight. I think that was considered the standard in bodybuilding until the mass marketing of protein powders.

That's around the US daily protein recommendation of .8 grams per kilo (2.2 lbs) of ideal body weight per day. To find your approximate recommendation, multiply your ideal body weight in pounds by .36.

(Note that in setting levels, the U.S. generally finds the lowest amount at which no sign of deficiency has been shown to occur, then doubles it for a safe margin of error. This number is often rounded up, as well. So you can safely assume that there is no evidence of deficiency at .4 grams per kilo, but of course you wouldn't want to be right at the edge all the time.)

The WHO recommendation is .45 grams per kilo of ideal body weight. (That would be approximately your body weight in pounds times .20.)

Most of the sources I've found say 10% of your calories from protein is the low end of the recommendation, but no studies have shown a need for more than 5-6%; again, there's a margin of error to try to ensure that people get enough.

Dr. Doug Graham has been following a diet like Steve's for about 25 years now. He's 54 years old and is in great shape, but he's not a body builder and never lifts weights, and doesn't have that sort of physique.

For more of a bodybuilder type, check out Richard Blackman, aka Fruitarian One. He's bigger, but not absolutely massive. He's into strength and fitness, but not bodybuilding, per se. And he only eats fruit, for the last few years, which seems too extreme even to me.
fruitarianfitness.com
He's also on youtube as Kinteet, where you can see him executing some pretty impressive feats of strength.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

I know Steve's read the China Study, and that, amongst other sources, provides plenty of peace of mind for the low-protein crowd.