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| Steve Pavlina Discuss ideas, articles, and podcasts from StevePavlina.com. New threads are automatically generated for Steve's latest blog posts. |
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| | #2 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10
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You'd think that after building a successful business this would be something you could avoid, but I'd say im in a situation that ins't too far off the mark here where I compare the symptoms. My 'biggie' is transitioning from software consulting (service based) to a software product development co. service = instant revenue, product = build it and hope they'll come. Obviously in the long run a the product model has a huge advantage as you decouple your time from revenue, which is the draw for me. |
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| | #3 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6
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Hi everybody, It's my first post here and I don't know if I'm posting in the proper place, but after I read Steve's last post I felt like registering and posting my current troubles right away. I'll explain you all my situation. I'll be going abroad to study for 2 years or more (depending on my performance), the topic I want and to the country I want. But now I have a 4 month fellowship in my home country. I consider I'm wasting my time because: 1.- I don't care about the topic I'm researching under this fellowship. It's unrelated to my main topic and I don't see how it could teach me something...maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like running monothonic computations all day. 2.- I'm not, and I won't be, contributing to the research group I'm in, because I don't have the specific preparation that would be necessary for that. My supervisors also recognize this fact and they have told me so. I agree. So the task that they have given to me is: re-check previous calculations done by them. 3.- In the country I'll be researching and living in, a different language is spoken. I really need to study the language. Badly. Also, the standards are really high, so I better read more papers in my field or they'll kick my ***. 4.- I have to spend all the fellowship money in housing, so no $ gain either. At first I thought I could study the language and also my own topic, while doing this fellowship. The free time I have is either the weekend or the time in the train or bus, quite a lot of time! but I didn't have in mind the lack of sleep and how hard is to concentrate in public places (at least for me and now). I tried to see it as a training, but I'm starting to worry seriously about not being able to learn enough before departure. However, I feel uncapable of say 'I quit' to them. The reason is that I was supposed to start the fellowship 3 months ago, but for some unexpected events I couldn't. So I went to them and told them that I wanted to cancel the fellowship, but they were so kind to wait for me 3 months. At that time I was too troubled with that 'unexpected events' that I didn't think straight and I was just moved by their kindness. They are indeed nice people. But going back to the point: the fellowship was meant to be from 9/07 to 12/07 and it was not possible to change those dates. For that reason, although I was not there, I received the stipend each month. Now I'm starting (12/07-3/07) and if I say 'I quit', how could I give the money back? Burocratically speaking, I can't quit because I have already finished!. This situation is bad for both parties. But if they don't think like me or/and the 'burocratic irregularity' they created (unrequested, but to make me a favor) causes big trouble to them, they will have a really bad opinion of me and that's something I want to avoid, since as a young researcher I'm aware of the importance of reputation, recommendation letters and comments at workshops. I don't know if I have explained it clear enough...man, I'm so troubled... When I reached this state I thought of having a talk with them and explain the situation frankly. But when I told my friends about it they told me I couldn't do that. 'They will think you're the worst!'-they told me. Their advice was: it's a short time, don't put any effort in that work, arrive late, go home early and skip work as much as you can. Great, so they'll think I'm an incompetent instead of a selfish cheater/cheeky traitor. So, where's the win-win situation?, I wonder. |
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| | #4 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,016
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Hi Renoa and welcome to the boards. Let's deal with these things one by one, in the way you've outlined them here: 1. The topic doesn't excite you. OK, fair enough; that's pretty common. My suggestion is to just do what you've agreed to do for the short time period you're committed to. It's only a few months, no big deal. 2. You feel your talents may not be used to their full abilities because you don't have the credentials yet. I imagine - though I can't be sure because I don't know all the details - that what you're in the midst of is actually a fundamental part of the credentialling process. It may not be in the actual nuts-and-bolts of your chosen profession, but you may need another professional in your field to provide a recommendation. And you'll get that through doing this work that you really aren't interested in at the moment. 3. There's a language barrier. I'm no language expert - I only speak two languages, English and profanity - but in your commute you might find time to listen to language CDs (or on your iPod or whatever). It may not be as effective as actually chatting with someone else in that language, but it may provide you with a good foundation. 4. There will be no financial gain. Well, the sense I get is that you won't be losing any $$, and while you may not walk away with hundred dollar notes bulging from your pockets, you'll enjoy a new experience which many, many people never get the opportunity to take advantage of. You mentioned that as a young researcher, you're well aware of how important reputation and recommendations are. So that's your goal. I don't agree that you should arrive late, leave early, take time off and just plod through the days. I think this is a good opportunity to solidify your reputation, get glowing recommendations, do well. |
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| | #5 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6
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Hi cdn2wheeler, thanks for your reply. I will clarify some points: 2.- It's not that my "talents may not be used to their full abilities", it's just that I don't have the base knowledge to do anything valuable in that field. I didn't chose the research group, I applied as an undergrad and someone I've never seen put me there. And it has nothing to do with credentials. Frankly speaking, I applied before I applied the 2-year long fellowship, I was quite desperate because I didn't see any other better opportunity at that moment. 3.- I'm afraid what I need to master to pass the exams there is the written language, which is the main handicap. I'm listening podcasts and such, but it won't be enough to reach my goal. Indeed, some other person could take my place and have a good opportunity. It's a good opportunity for someone that is interested in that field, and with top researchers. Even if I had no other choice, I wouldn't continue there towards the phD. I'd rather work in a fast-food restaurant and wait till I find a new opportunity in my field. No matter how I look at it, it looks so wrong I'm there. Still, I don't know how to fix it. And one thing that bothers me is that these people won't see the real me. I mean, I won't make a big effort as I did in the past as an undergrad and during other research experiences I had. I'm focused (or I try to be) in the big cake. So I wonder what would really damage my (inexistent?) reputation, and if that wouldn't be a fair price to pay in order to get time to work towards something bigger. I don't want to have regrets later. Thanks again for reading my first post and for your fast reply. |
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| | #6 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 195
| Quote:
Stability/security is surely a subjective concept and your standard of living determines what it is for you, but in general, if your finances are a mess, then it will be much harder to muster that inner strength to make the jump.. especially if you have to get a substantial pay cut, or have to go back to school, or you do as Steve says and quit your current job before you know what the next step is. Bills won't wait until you sort things out. As for uncertainty of the future, it doesn't really ever disappear. It only seems bigger when you don't have a history in a new line of work/experience. In fact, certainty is a retrospective illusion. Future is always uncertain (mostly due to lack of 'complete information') and looking forward always requires inner strength no matter where you are and what you are doing (even when you have a long history in a particular line of work)! | |
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| | #7 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,935
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Steve, it sounds like your article basically says that if you don't like your job, don't bother with any form of transition, just walk in to your boss's office and quit. If you don't do that, then it simply means you're a wuss and don't have the kahuna's to do it. I used to think this way too, and in fact did that 10 years ago, quitting a stable job to pursue my own business. My attitude was "Whatever, who cares, I'll figure something out." Although it was an interesting learning experience for me, I don't think I'd recommend this path to everyone. There are definitely cleaner ways to make a "transition". When you wrote this article, did you speak from personal experience? I can't remember now, but did you have a good paying stable job that you quit to pursue your video gaming company? For some reason I thought you never had a job...I thought it was school > Dexterity > StevePavlina.com as far as career path for you. |
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| | #8 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Texas
Posts: 679
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{{shrug}} Can't be any tougher/unknown/uncertain than what I'm already dealing with. | |
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| | #9 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,935
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My personal view on this topic is a bit different from Steves. I'm a bit more conservative and wouldn't just quit a job as soon as you find something else you'd like to do. I've written my thoughts on the subject in these two articles: Making the Transition to Doing What You Love for a Living | Inspired Money Maker - How To Make Money Doing What You Love Transitioning to Doing What You Love Tip #1: Build a Warchest | Inspired Money Maker - How To Make Money Doing What You Love I kind of see the "I Quit" thing as the easiest thing to do as far as exit strategies, but I don't think it's always the best option. Also, from the point of view of being a manager I've seen people actually do that as well, coming to me and telling me they quit out of the blue with no prior warning. When I asked them what they are going to do, some of them quit for another job which pays a dollar more per hour which I would have gladly matched if they came and talked to me before quitting, or in some instances people have quit with no plan whatsoever of what they are going to do next. I then heard from someone they went to work for an ice-cream store a few months later because they couldn't find a job. In other instances I've heard of people talking about starting their own businesses because they saw that their boss is an "idiot" and doesn't know what he's doing, and then when they start their business they realize it isn't as easy as they thought. I also think it's really important to make sure you're not quitting because you're trying to run away from your own ego-self problems. That kind of thing will just follow you around from job to job, from business to business. |
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| | #10 (permalink) |
| Master Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 5,988
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I quit a well-paying, full-time consulting arrangement to start my own business. I quit because that gig was full-time, and it would have crippled my ability to try to start a new business, even though I could have used the money. Although it may not have looked like it, I pretty much up and quit my games biz too by stopping all new game development and discontinuing all active marketing. However, I still kept the Dexterity web site running while starting StevePavlina.com because I could maintain some of its cashflow on just an hour or two per week, so it never interfered with the new path. Even so, the business was basically coasting to a stop, and the income dropped quite a bit before the transition. If you're stuck in a full-time job, for most people I think it's best to up and quit. Otherwise your job will suck away far too much time and energy, not to mention the fact that it will reinforce your old identity for 40 hours or more every week. That's a killer. Some people are able to make a real commitment to a new career while still holding onto their old jobs, but that seems to be the more difficult path and often takes years. It's hard to stay motivated to work on your new career after you've already worked full-time. Most people can't do it. Saying "I quit" may seem harder, but I think it's much easier in the long run. |
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| | #11 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,935
| Quote:
Just out of curiosity, how much does having your wife being a psychic help with such decisions? I mean, she can kind of act like a guide to pick the right path at the right time, and to help with the decision to quit, right? If for example your decision to quit a job or shut down a business would lead to financial devestation, she could foresee that, no? This year I've started working with a psychic and it's been a great help to clarify a lot of things for me. I can totally see it being a great help with career decisions like this as well. | |
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| | #12 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 57
| Quote:
Lesson: Learn to read your own signals. If you put in the time and effort, you can develop your own psychic powers. But don't take any "sign" as the "absolute future", as things are always dynamic. Of course some signs are for longer term than others, but as you spend the time to master the psychic elements, you get to realize which is which. Take the signs as clues to help you navigate each step of the way. OTOH, I am sure it helps to have a well-developed psychic wife who can read you for free at any point in time.. | |
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| | #13 (permalink) | |
| Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16
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| | #14 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 43
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I'm with Paul on this one. I think it really depends on circumstances. A few years ago I walked out of a job and started my own business. I worked night and day on it and did all the research but it wasn't enough and the business never broke even. Through all that time I watched the loan I had taken out to sustain me just dwindle away to pay the bills and eventually I got to a point where it was get a job or not have a roof over my head. I took the job. I was so stressed all of the time about money that I was exhausted. Now I'm in a position where I work 40 hours a week and feel tired when I get home but I have just enough energy to work on the things I want to work on without the fear of not knowing how I will eat the following week. I've never had a 'high fllying career' because I've only ever really wanted to do my music. In the past I didn't do my music because I was told I'd never make any money from it and I believed it (sad I know!). My job is only just about basic wage so to get myself financially comfortable to be able to say "I quit" (i.e. have around a years income saved) would take me 11 years of living the most basic life possible (!!!) - I'm forty next year - no way! I don't want to spend my free hours looking for yet another job that I don't want. Like Paul said in one of his articles, it's possible to use the job you have as a learning curve and I came to that conclusion myself some time ago. I realised I work with great people in a job that for several months of the year is quiet enough for me to reduce to 4 days a week. In the meantime I can get a ticket I want for practically any gig plus get to know how the live music scene works from a business angle and of course get to know names. I've finally got to a point where 'all or nothing' doesn't work for me. I've had all the time in the world in the past but got nothing done because I was so poor I couldn't even afford to buy some new strings for my guitar - and sometimes not enough money to eat. I spent vast resources of energy trying to come up with finding a way out and ended up more depressed and unable to work at the things I really wanted to work at. In fact, whilst financiallly it's not the greatest thing in the world, my current position means I can at least not only pay my bills but also pay to travel to Portugal (which is where I want to go and live) and pay for my classes in Portuguese. For all the good the job brings me it's certainly not what I want to be doing for the rest of my life. For the first time though I'm really realising I can achieve my dreams and I choose to see the job as something that is helping not hindering me. That in itself makes me feel happy when I get up in the morning. Saying "I quit" is important for when a job is so bad it's destroying you of course but sometimes it's just not possible unless you have a partner or family to support you financially or a hefty amount of savings to see you through. |
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| | #16 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 144
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Saying "I quit" might be pretty effective, but at least in America (I don't know about other countries), it's helpful if you can use Jedi mind tricks to get your boss to lay you off without putting anything negative on your record. It's a little more tricky to pull off, but it helps smooth out the financial end of the transition. |
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| | #17 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 114
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Steve has some good points in this article but I disagree with his recommendation of quitting your current job. Not having the piece of mind from a steady paycheck coupled with trying to decide what to do with your life can leave you broke and in debt. A better idea is to: 1) make a plan for change 2) analyze other careers 3) interview people in careers that your are interested in 4) Decide to change 5) make plans to change 6) reduce/eliminate debt 7) Find a new job in your new career 8) When found, then quit! I can't stress the importance of aligning your finances when wanting to change. You will take a pay cut. I posted this link in another thread and feel it's relevant to this topic: CoolPeopleCare | Making Your Passion Your Profession I speak from experience on career changing. I have not made the leap, yet. However I've been prepping for the past 3 years. Everything is aligned and I'm waiting on new opportunity. It's frustrating and I fight the urge to quit everyday. However I know I'll be better off by being prepared. |
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| | #18 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,935
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One other thing to consider is a persons ability to handle authority. I knew a few people in my life who have a really tough time handling any form of authority, mostly due to their childhood and upbringing where their parents really did not have their best interest at heart and were abusing them etc. I have found these types of individuals to be unable to get any satisfaction at all while working for someone else. To them, having a job is like hell. THe only reason they do it is because they are literally starving. For people like this, it might be so agonizing to even come to work, that it might be better to quit and do their own thing. On the converse of that, I have also met alot of people who are great producers when they have a boss, but when they are their own boss they become really lazy and unproductive. Not everyone makes a great boss, especially for themselves. |
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| | #20 (permalink) |
| Administrator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 4,593
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I've known people who were "planning" to quit their jobs for literally years. I've been watching as each of these people continue to say they are "going to quit" and do what they really want but they don't. In all cases, these people have at least paid lip service to what they want to do instead, but none can figure out how to accomplish it. When they do, they claim, then they'll quit. Years later, still no change. Sometimes, and I'm not saying all the time, but sometimes you have to quit if you ever want to make the transition. Nothing gets you moving in high gear like necessity. |
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| | #21 (permalink) | |
| Master Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 5,988
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| | #22 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,606
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Instead, by taking it slow and planning well, then in two years from now he could potentially have made the transfer and gotten his new career. Last edited by seeker5; 12-16-2007 at 02:01 AM. | |
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| | #23 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: France -> Germany -> France -> Brazil
Posts: 3,430
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| | #24 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,935
| Quote:
Here's the catch. If you don't come to grips with "pushing against authority" so much, even when you become your own boss, you will still fight against your boss, effectively fighting yourself! That's when things get really colorful. You wake up in the morning and you tell yourself "I will now go and write a blog entry for my blog." (example), and then a part of your mind says "No! I'm going to do whatever I want! You're not the boss of me!" and the battle begins. There's a difference between being a leader and fighting authority. The best leaders are also the best followers. It is really just an ego battle of wills fighting against authority, painting "authority figures" in front of you as your life goes on. First your parents, then your teachers, then social authority figures, then bosses at work, the government, and so on on and so on. It becomes YOU against THEM. Anyways, I'm going off topic here, but I would encourage you to work on this part of yourself. It will help you on your career path even if your boss is YOU. | |
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| | #25 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: France -> Germany -> France -> Brazil
Posts: 3,430
| Quote:
I just want to be free to work on what I want, when I feel inspired to do so. I don't think this is something I should work on. When I have this freedom, I'm productive without any battles. I'm obviously a bad follower, but I don't care, since I don't want to be a leader either. There is more in the world than just leaders and followers Sorry for getting off-topic... | |
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| | #26 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 212
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Since joining these forums, I have taken a job. I don't like it, the field it is in, or the time it takes up. It was also seriously misrepresented to me during initial recruitment. Nonetheless, I am not quitting it, for several reasons: - It is for a limited length of time. In less than a year, I will have fulfilled my obligation (and this particular job is an obligation). - It is to a small, new company; if I were to leave, it would set them back significantly, though probably not kill the company. - There would be huge family repercussions if I were to quit, as I am not the only person in my immediate family involved in this company. Huge family repercussions would likely end up killing my attempt to become a citizen of the country I live in, among other disadvantages. - I am freshly out of university. This allows me to save up a significant amount of money, which allows me somewhat more flexibility. I'm currently saving over 80% of my income, after mandatory deductions taken before I receive payment. Other people have suggested reasons such as "it will look good on your CV" to stay in this job; frankly, I consider that a non-issue. It definitely makes working towards what I want to be doing more difficult, and it has destroyed any chance of achieving my major goal for 2008 in 2008 (the goal requires intense, focused concentration over significant periods of time). I have come across this every day, and I cannot wait to be finished with this job. Nonetheless, I am sticking with it, and I hope to train my successor and/or my coworkers to take over my job as soon as possible. |
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| | #27 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,606
| Quote:
Last edited by seeker5; 12-16-2007 at 03:56 AM. | |
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| | #28 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 114
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| | #29 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 195
| Steve loves to push people's buttons, but I wonder if he is beginning to forget that many many people with rather unique situations and mental states are reading his blog and simple, boilerplate advice may not always work for everyone. Then again, he is posting what worked for him, so what worked for him may or may not work for you as is. On one hand, you can't just keep contemplating forever the results of changing careers because simulating potential outcomes in your mind is not the same as living them and it will only paralyze you the longer you spend your time simulating. On the other hand, making big changes on the whims of a blog post without further one-on-one coaching to go through the specifics of your situation could be very very tough and destructive for those who are not quite ready (mentally, financially, etc) to take such a plunge. I would recommend working with a mentor or two to help you through such transitions. For example, the IEEE organization is offering a program to its members to do just that. If you are a member, take a look: IEEE - IEEE Mentoring Connection IEEE Benefits - IEEE Mentoring Connection The organizations you belong to in your profession might have similar programs or joining business oriented organizations available in your area might provide you the opportunity to find mentors. The following post from Pamela Slim might also be helpful in giving you ideas on finding a mentor: Escape from Cubicle Nation: How can you find great mentors? |
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| | #30 (permalink) | |
| Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 11
| Quote:
At a point of transition in career and in inner resources, there is a major shift of energy. Sometimes it is all that I gain by the extensive work on my inner resources prior to the shift, sometimes the release of a lot of energy and attention locked up in the stress of an unpleasant job. Sometimes, when the going is good, it is the sheer joy of freedom from a discipline which even if pleasant is someone else's choice. In any case, all the energy I need for my new projects, even to formulate them comes for free. Quite like a wave. | |
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