Monetizing advice on self-improvement

[bix]

Forked from this thread.

I am one of those concerned with the apparent decrease in the quality of articles on this site. Over the last two years I have found that the articles are discussing increasingly abstract things and are less and less applicable to real life.

I think this is largely because Steve has started treating his self-improvement skills as a tradeable value and has started relying on them to generate money.

I do not have any problems with people making money any way they like, but there are several areas which can not be monetized without adverse effects. I believe offering advice on self-improvement is one such area.

Imagine a casual tennis player. When he goes pro, he starts playing better.

Now imagine a casual self-improvement advisor. When he goes pro, he does not start providing better advice, he starts providing a different advice and he starts providing more of it. Best self-improvement ideas come not from "experts" on self-improvement who do this full time but rather from brick workers or software developers or working moms sharing their thoughts and recipes on how to go by in everyday life.

There are numerous reasons why the advice offered by self-improvement "experts" generally sucks. For one thing, such "experts" do not spend enough time in real life and thus do not know what the real problems are. Thus, they all try to "bring the discussion to a higher level" where they can try and talk abstract things. Every now and then, they may also give some practical advice in a real-life area that they recently had to touch, eg, how to speak to people, or how to plan a travel. You can tell that the advice given in this area is immensely more useful than the abstract stuff they throw at you. Alas, the number of real-life areas that they can give advice on is usually not very high and besides that, how many times do you have to hear that if you have to talk to a group of people then you'd better sleep the night before and feel calm and perhaps do a self-rehearsal.

Second, self-improvement "experts" are preoccupied with the requirement to make a living. You know, one day they will be having "an unconscious intention to manifest" some money. You can be sure that they will "recognize" that intention and if they will have any "fears" related to the "outcome" of that intention, these fears will ultimately be overcame. That's where you start seeing tricks aimed to bring more people to the website, recommendations for products, and even ponzi schemes (please tell me how much self-improvement advice you got out of this post on Ing Direct). You also start seeing articles which are either controversial or are written with a tongue in cheek. The purpose of these articles is to bring traffic (oh, why, of course, to "initiate the discussion" and get some clicks on ads). The amount of practical advice offered by the site decreases even more.

There are other reasons, too.

The moment someone starts treating self-improvement as a business, the value in his advice evaporates. I am deeply saddened that Steve has decided to go this route.

[Michelle]

What I sense here is envy. Envy that someone is successful and happy doing something they love while still making a valuable contribution to society. Are you doing that?

I, for one, find it absolutely fantastic that Steve makes such a great living at what he does. His articles are still very relevant to my own personal development. I would not be here otherwise.

If the quality level here is so bad, maybe you guys should start your own site which offers even better quality information.

Teehee.

[Erki]

Wow, an Ing Direct post. That's quite horrible, evil.

Keep digging!

[Erki]

Originally Posted by bix

You can't deny that this site is becoming more and more abstract and that Steve primarily works on bringing in traffic.

I can't deny that the content on this site has become more and more abstract and you can't draw an equals sign between abstract and nonsense.

[lbp]

Geez, I just joined and after reading those last three posts....I'm wondering....
When I found Steve's site, I thought, oh my, finally a post that isn't trying to hit you up for 29 bucks and up.....I'll actually find some helpful info here...so that's what I'm looking for....helpful info....
maybe I haven't seen enough yet to come to the same conclusions, but I hope I learn alot nonetheless..

it seems he quite loves what he is doing, and people are beefing about his making money....someone obviously hasn't realized the millions that are being made all the time,,about self improvement,,,

but it's nice for some to have the help, when they need it.....sometimes just these little starters, are all it takes for a person to move ahead and become successful at whatever they chose.....knowing that is a satisfaction that's worth more than money.....and I think that's what really counts

remember, what goes around comes around????

what's going on here.....

bluntley, if you don't like what you see, leave..

lbp

[Erki]

What's practical for one person might be not so practical for another. Maybe you're just too practical for this all...

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by bix

But what do you think about the topic in general? Do you think it is possible to make offering self-improvement advice a full time job without the practical value of that advice deteriorating and the entire direction of the advice changing? You can't deny that this site is becoming more and more abstract and that Steve primarily works on bringing in traffic.

I think it is most definitely possible to earn a living while maintaining integrity, focus, and continuing to evolve one's own thought processes. I also think it is perfectly reasonable to earn a great living doing this. But I don't get the impression that Steve is in it for the money. I am sure he thinks the money is nice (who wouldn't?), but I truly believe he does it for higher reasons. I sense a lot of generosity of time and spirit, humour and fun, and the true wish to help others.

Abstract information only has meaning in life when applied practically, of course. This is something which comes relatively easy to me and which can be learned.

My own singing voice, for example, is abstract in the sense that it cannot be touched or manipulated. So, I learned through abstract thinking to get my voice to do what I want. Otherwise I would be concerned with moving the third muscle in the left of my neck, the sixteenth in my tummy, and tons of other very concrete/practical directions which have no possiblity of being carried out simply because there is no way to control every little muscle and tendon which needs to work in order that I can sing.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by bix

That's not what I asked. I asked whether or not you think it is possible to earn a living by offering self-improvement advice to people, without the requirement to earn that living and other factors having negative effects on the advice. Is *that* possible?

If you think it is possible, do you honestly think that the advice provided by Steve is not affected by him having to make a living? (Take a look at his last ten posts to see what he concentrates his efforts on.) And do you honestly believe that a simple thought like "you have to face your own fears" warrants a lengthy diatribe with passages like "... when you accept the total package, you allow your desire to manifest without resistance. This is what it means to become a 'vibrational match' for your intentions"?

Yes, I think it is possible to earn a living by offering self-improvement advice to people, without the requirement to earn that living and other factors having negative effects on the advice.

Everything Steve wrote makes sense to me. And the passage in question, was particularly enlightening. I have always been one to face my fears, but to accept the fear as a consequence brings a whole new dimension to that topic for me, One, I might add, that is very practical in nature.

[ReallyGoodIdeas]

I'm with Michelle on this! If you have negative feedback on a first posting, I'm wondering why you're here at all?
If you read any books on intention-manifestation, "vibrational match" is a very common term. If you need to understand a term,I'm sure you can look it up. If thats too difficult, why are you here?? Personally I'm here to learn and to grow, and I'm finding this great.

As for the quality of advice once a self-improvement adviser goes pro, I'd say, the more time you spend on this stuff, the more you learn and grow, the better the advice you can give.

A golf pro doesn't have a day job.

[Josip]

Bix,

It is for sure that Steve now writes more than before, and of course there is less precentage of "useful" articles.

But, if Steve is trying to sell "self improvement" or anything else, he needs to provide us a real value or we will not "buy" it.

Very practical question:
If he not provides us real value, then why so many people visits this web site every day?

Personally, I just ignore blog posts that not interested for me, but there are still a lot of others very useful articles. And there is a forum with a lot of great people on the one place, no?

Josip

[Josip]

Originally Posted by bix

Oh, if you define "value" as "anything that attracts people", then of course Steve provides value. The thing is, does this value has anything to deal with self-improvement?

Thinking about this, I would have had no problems with this site if it was titled "Mindless banter and general fun with non-scientific theories". However, the site claims to be centered around self-improvement (and used to offer valuable advice in that area) and this I have problems with.

Look, I not agree with everything what Steve says. I agree with probably only 15-20% (optimistic forecast)

Maybe you expect too much. This is just one more web site, it is Steve's approach, not absolute truth about self improvement. Take what is useful for you, ignore the rest.

Anyway, you said you respect opinion of "brick workers or software developers or working moms sharing their thoughts and recipes on how to go by in everyday life."

Here is over 1800 members of this forums who can give you their everyday life pieces. Forum is one of the best parts of this website (just my humble opinion )

[Kaman]

That Ing Direct post is not useful to me as I'm not in the US. But I think it's OK to introduce a product if it has at least a little benefit to the readers. I dont expect content rich post all the time.

As for using tall words like "vibrational match", I think it appropriate as it really does mean something. One reason why I read this blog is that Steve has good vibration. Most people have low vibrations, when you're with them you catch their moods - angst, restlessness, gloomy outlook etc. Its possible to be aware of one's own vibration and raise it to a higher level.

If you're not aware of vibrations it's understandable that you think Steve is using unnecessary words.

[Katrina]

Originally Posted by bix

Forked from this thread.

I am one of those concerned with the apparent decrease in the quality of articles on this site. Over the last two years I have found that the articles are discussing increasingly abstract things and are less and less applicable to real life.

I think this is largely because Steve has started treating his self-improvement skills as a tradeable value and has started relying on them to generate money.

I do not have any problems with people making money any way they like, but there are several areas which can not be monetized without adverse effects. I believe offering advice on self-improvement is one such area.

Imagine a casual tennis player. When he goes pro, he starts playing better.

Now imagine a casual self-improvement advisor. When he goes pro, he does not start providing better advice, he starts providing a different advice and he starts providing more of it. Best self-improvement ideas come not from "experts" on self-improvement who do this full time but rather from brick workers or software developers or working moms sharing their thoughts and recipes on how to go by in everyday life.

There are numerous reasons why the advice offered by self-improvement "experts" generally sucks. For one thing, such "experts" do not spend enough time in real life and thus do not know what the real problems are. Thus, they all try to "bring the discussion to a higher level" where they can try and talk abstract things. Every now and then, they may also give some practical advice in a real-life area that they recently had to touch, eg, how to speak to people, or how to plan a travel. You can tell that the advice given in this area is immensely more useful than the abstract stuff they throw at you. Alas, the number of real-life areas that they can give advice on is usually not very high and besides that, how many times do you have to hear that if you have to talk to a group of people then you'd better sleep the night before and feel calm and perhaps do a self-rehearsal.

Second, self-improvement "experts" are preoccupied with the requirement to make a living. You know, one day they will be having "an unconscious intention to manifest" some money. You can be sure that they will "recognize" that intention and if they will have any "fears" related to the "outcome" of that intention, these fears will ultimately be overcame. That's where you start seeing tricks aimed to bring more people to the website, recommendations for products, and even ponzi schemes (please tell me how much self-improvement advice you got out of this post on Ing Direct). You also start seeing articles which are either controversial or are written with a tongue in cheek. The purpose of these articles is to bring traffic (oh, why, of course, to "initiate the discussion" and get some clicks on ads). The amount of practical advice offered by the site decreases even more.

There are other reasons, too.

The moment someone starts treating self-improvement as a business, the value in his advice evaporates. I am deeply saddened that Steve has decided to go this route.

I think you're making the mistake of equating Steve's choice of topics with the desire to make money, which you really have no proof of. And if I might go a bit further, you're equating what doesn't interest you and what you don't consider to be "self-improvement" with bad or non-applicable advice.

But as someone who is *very* interested in what he's been talking about recently, I can honestly say that I'm enjoying the blog more now than before. Because more than just "do this" it's been "think about this". I'm learning more about myself, my motivations, my fears and that is infinitely more valuable to me than a lot of other things he could be posting about. If I know myself better, I can tackle more problems and I find getting to the core of why I live my life the way I do (my fears, my desires, my purpose) more valuable than more articles on getting up early or goal setting. If I can dig down to the root of myself, I don't need all the other articles about how to organise my life, make money, etc because I can start solving my own problems. These articles force me to think instead of just following instructions. But that's my personal opinion and how I interact with the content he's posted. Not everyone is going to use the site in the same way.

Also, remember that Steve posts about what he's interested in, what he feels works for him, etc. He's writing for his own growth and others who might take some value from what he's learned. Take some of it, leave the rest. Not every article he writes is going to be of interest to you and I think it's a bit silly to say you're "saddened" to see that he's gone this route. He's a person with opinions and beliefs and not everything he's going to be interested in is going to resonate with you. If you feel there's a lack of the topics you're interested in "personal development", then you are more than welcome to pursue those topics yourself and post them.

[ludlow]

I visit this site, take what's useful, discard what isn't, and never click on a single ad. I'm still slightly baffled that this results in Steve making thousands of dollars a month, but if it does, I can't say I mind a bit.

[Intermindo]

Art cannot be taught. Zen cannot be taught. Success cannot be taught.

"Success" is as much art as it is science. As an artist you realize that at some point you are on your own, that no one can give you all the information you need to do what you uniquely will want to do. That's right, you are unique. And success literature is general. See the problem? You live in a world of specifics. You need very detailed steps and skills and you aren't ever going to get it all from a book, seminar, etc. All you will get it is ideas, hints, and suggestions to try. If you find what you are getting is too airy and too open to misinterpretation then you should dump the material and continue searching.

One size does NOT fit all. To get around this, you could hire a guru, a personal coach that will tailor a program to your unique needs (if he is that perceptive). That would probably be faster than trying to interpret a book, but ultimately no one can hold your hand forever. At some point, you need to develop your own methods for change and growth and that may take a lot more time than a success author would admit.

"Success" is a lot about perspective, time and place, too. Hitler was a "success" in many people's minds at one time. Better get your perspective right and in line with progressive, growing concepts.

Keep in mind it's not the written material that you actually get the real results from - it's your implementation of a process and experimentation that you learn from.
Written Material -> Your Interpretation -> Your Experiments With Your Interpretation -> Eventual Artistry in a Unique Way

I could go on and on. I too have had some disappointment with the Success Industry and there's more to tell but let me give you a reading list of little-known down to earth books that have helped me to get closer to the heart of the "success" matter. These are really down-to-earth and give you practical info.

One Small Step Can Change Your Life - The Kaizan Way - Robert Maurer
Mastery - George Leonard
Unleash the Warrior Within - Richard J. Machowicz
Do One Thing Differrent - Bill O'hanlon

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by bix

* The Consciousness Revolution - no content ("I would like to 'awaken' people even though I 'don't claim to be the penultimate of conscious living'")

For the record, I think you completely missed the point of that post.

[wheelie]

Bix,
I wonder what area of your life you would wish to have more counsel and guidance with?

You are obviously a very bright and observant person but if you perceive a gap in the value of SP's blog or are left wanting for something more, then I propose you let us know exactly what that is. It seems that there are many compassionate and effective people here who could help you along better than SP is at the moment.

Is it your goal to change SP or yourself?

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by bix

Forked from this thread.

I am one of those concerned with the apparent decrease in the quality of articles on this site. Over the last two years I have found that the articles are discussing increasingly abstract things and are less and less applicable to real life.

Then why keep reading Bix? I used to love lifehack.org but now I feel their quality of content has gone down, so I've unsubscribed to their feed.

Originally Posted by bix

I think this is largely because Steve has started treating his self-improvement skills as a tradeable value and has started relying on them to generate money.

I do not have any problems with people making money any way they like, but there are several areas which can not be monetized without adverse effects. I believe offering advice on self-improvement is one such area.

So...is your argument:

1) Making money and self-improvement don't match?

2) Steve's quality of articles has decreased?

3) Making money out of his articles has caused his quality to decrease?

Originally Posted by bix

Imagine a casual tennis player. When he goes pro, he starts playing better.

Well, true. But what's also true is that most of the NBA coaches would get their asses whipped on the courts by the players they coach anytime. They may not outperform them, but they know how to get them to perform, which are 2 different skills.

An excellent trumpet player may play a mean set for eg, but it doesn't mean he knows how to teach someone to do the same.

Originally Posted by bix

Now imagine a casual self-improvement advisor. When he goes pro, he does not start providing better advice, he starts providing a different advice and he starts providing more of it. Best self-improvement ideas come not from "experts" on self-improvement who do this full time but rather from brick workers or software developers or working moms sharing their thoughts and recipes on how to go by in everyday life.

Really? What kind of best self-improvement ideas by which working mom?

Originally Posted by bix

There are numerous reasons why the advice offered by self-improvement "experts" generally sucks. For one thing, such "experts" do not spend enough time in real life and thus do not know what the real problems are. Thus, they all try to "bring the discussion to a higher level" where they can try and talk abstract things. Every now and then, they may also give some practical advice in a real-life area that they recently had to touch, eg, how to speak to people, or how to plan a travel. You can tell that the advice given in this area is immensely more useful than the abstract stuff they throw at you. Alas, the number of real-life areas that they can give advice on is usually not very high and besides that, how many times do you have to hear that if you have to talk to a group of people then you'd better sleep the night before and feel calm and perhaps do a self-rehearsal.

Haha this is funny. Is there a unreal life if there's a real one?

There are many levels of advice on self-improvement you can take. For a nitty-gritty back to specifics level on time management I'd go to 43folders and the excellent advice of GTD.

To whip my body back into shape, I might seek out a bodybuilding expert or a yoga instructor.

To help my deepen my relationship with my girlfriend, I might read someone like Barbara DeAngelis and pick up specific techniques like the Love Letter that I can use.

But I don't always want to spend my time on the ground. I want to move to higher principles and abstract ideas too, since the more abstract an idea, the more power it usually holds over specific ideas (fruits encompass the whole family of fruits compared to knowing about apples and bananas).

I will give it to you, Bix, that there are many self-improvement instructors out there who give nothing but fluffy abstract talk while having no idea how to do the specifics.

But to say 'There are numerous reasons why the advice offered by self-improvement "experts" generally sucks' is an interesting belief. If self-improvement experts generally suck, why are you reading in the first place? Are there any self-improvement 'experts' which you don't think suck?

Originally Posted by bix

Second, self-improvement "experts" are preoccupied with the requirement to make a living. You know, one day they will be having "an unconscious intention to manifest" some money. You can be sure that they will "recognize" that intention and if they will have any "fears" related to the "outcome" of that intention, these fears will ultimately be overcame. That's where you start seeing tricks aimed to bring more people to the website, recommendations for products, and even ponzi schemes (please tell me how much self-improvement advice you got out of this post on Ing Direct). You also start seeing articles which are either controversial or are written with a tongue in cheek. The purpose of these articles is to bring traffic (oh, why, of course, to "initiate the discussion" and get some clicks on ads). The amount of practical advice offered by the site decreases even more.

Who isn't preoccupied with the requirement to make a living? I don't mind that Steve's articles are tongue in cheek and controversial, rather that than stick in the mud and toeing the line.

Originally Posted by bix

There are other reasons, too.

The moment someone starts treating self-improvement as a business, the value in his advice evaporates. I am deeply saddened that Steve has decided to go this route.

Bix, let me see if I understand your points:

1) Self improvement as a business doesn't work.

2) Once you start selling self improvement for a living, the quality of your advice drops.

3) Self-improvement advice is best had from people doing it part-time because they're involved in 'real' life.

4) More specifics for self-improvement rather than the general abstract advice you've been seeing the last few posts would make you happier.

[NoelKuhl]

I can't believe there are still people who believe lightworkers should be poor and make no money and give of themselves for no return whatsoever. Maybe the original poster should try it sometime.

[impaul99]

Originally Posted by bix

Over the last two years I have found that the articles are discussing increasingly abstract things and are less and less applicable to real life.

That is probably because your version of "real life" is different than Steve's version of "real life" and everyone elses. To get true value out of his articles, you need to not only read them but apply the principles within which will hopefully have the effect of transforming your version of "real life" for the better like they have for Steve and a lot of us. Once you begin to transform your life, things will change and you will be able to get more value from his recent posts. If you used to get value from his older posts, go back to them (they are still available for free!) and re-read them and ask yourself if you are applying what he used to say. Once you actually start applying, you will solve those problems of that level of life and encounter new ones you never thought of before. The new problems will get solved by his new articles etc.

I think this is largely because Steve has started treating his self-improvement skills as a tradeable value and has started relying on them to generate money.

I believe he has relied on the income from his blog since the start, I could be wrong.

There are numerous reasons why the advice offered by self-improvement "experts" generally sucks. For one thing, such "experts" do not spend enough time in real life and thus do not know what the real problems are.

What does "real life" mean to you exactly? If they are not spending enough time in "real life", where do they go? Unreal life? By "real life" are you saying 'middle class' life compared to 'rich' life?

If so, you may be correct in the sense that people who make $2000/m generally have slightly different problems in life than people who make $10,000/m and solve them in different ways. If Steve makes $10k/m for example he can afford to hire a nanny or house cleaner, whereas at the $2k/m income level you may not be able to do so. Therefore, the "problems" he has that he is solving might not apply to you as much anymore because he's moving forward BUT this should be a good sign. It means the advice he was giving at the $2k/m income level got him to $10k/m and it can help you get there too.

The moment someone starts treating self-improvement as a business, the value in his advice evaporates. I am deeply saddened that Steve has decided to go this route.

If this is true, could you please provide me with examples of people who provide amazing self-help advice that I can access who don't make any money from that advice?

[Jan Krüger]

Originally Posted by bix

I think this is largely because Steve has started treating his self-improvement skills as a tradeable value and has started relying on them to generate money.

First off, I don't think it's a bad thing to generate money by offering value to people. That's like the whole point of why you deserve the money, isn't it?

I take it you haven't seen dirtsimple dot org yet. (Some of) its older articles are brilliant, whereas the newer are basically teasers that end in "and in order to learn how to do this, you just need to order my book and sign up here...".

[Dolazy]

Originally Posted by bix

Forked from this thread.

I am one of those concerned with the apparent decrease in the quality of articles on this site. Over the last two years I have found that the articles are discussing increasingly abstract things and are less and less applicable to real life.

Funny that you say cause I think his articles are getting better and better over time.

[scottyp]

In response to the abstract articles, I believe that their intention is for the reader to draw their own conclusions. You can only write so many articles on how to get up early, quit caffeine, or eat vegan. While those articles have a lot of "mass-market appeal" (that's how I ended up on this site in the first place) they are fundamentally simple. The abstract articles are designed to make you think, and are not simply for concrete ideas/entertainment. At least that is how I see it.

Not every article appeals to me on this site, but those that do, appeal to me a lot, that's what's important.

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by Dolazy

Funny that you say cause I think his articles are getting better and better over time.

I definitely agree. I will say that some of his articles are getting more abstract, but I like that. His articles add a different perspective and they are no longer just a how-to guide. I really enjoy his older articles too, but I think this shows how he is growing.

One of the best parts about his blog is that most post can appeal to everyone even at very different stages of pd. I can understand how the more abstract articles may be more difficult to understand, but it also presents a wonderful growing opportunity.

I also think it is awesome that Steve manages to make enough money to support himself, his family, and help the world at the same time. I can’t wait to see the changes that he brings about as he brings more money into his life. I think he can do a lot of good with it… and I know he will.

[Acting Like Godot]

I only started reading Steve Pavlina's blog recently, but I don't find his articles very abstract.

At the least, they're not any more abstract than the notion that a man could get crucified and thereby all of mankind shall be saved; or the notion that global stock investors' future decisions can be predicted by referring to nothing more than trendlines on a graph of stock markets today; or the idea that dark energy is preventing the slowdown of the expansion of the universe resulting from the initial Big Bang; or the notion that your food is getting hot because the water molecules in it are vibrating faster due to being attuned to the microwave frequency in your oven.

Sometimes things seem abstract only because you didn't understand the simpler building blocks of the concept.

Notice I said understand, not agree or <i>accept</i>. One may or may not agree with or accept a concept, but before you take a definitive position on that, one should at least seek to understand what's being said.

[emf]

Originally Posted by ludlow

I visit this site, take what's useful, discard what isn't, and never click on a single ad. I'm still slightly baffled that this results in Steve making thousands of dollars a month, but if it does, I can't say I mind a bit.

LOL! Priceless!

[Razzmatazz]

Originally Posted by ludlow

I visit this site, take what's useful, discard what isn't, and never click on a single ad. I'm still slightly baffled that this results in Steve making thousands of dollars a month, but if it does, I can't say I mind a bit.

I'm the same, except when I find an article that is useful I make a point of clicking on every single ad on the page.....

[Phi]

It will probably be detected as a fraud attempt if you click every single add and then nobody gains any benefit. Only click on the ads that interest you.

[MartialDev]

Originally Posted by Razzmatazz

I'm the same, except when I find an article that is useful I make a point of clicking on every single ad on the page.....

LOL. Razz, I like your style! Let me introduce the

[Keith]

Bix, I too have noticed an increasing trend towards abstraction, but I attribute it to something different:

I estimate my current stage of development as significantly lower than Steve's when he first began blogging. I have a lot of growing to do until I reach that level.

And since Steve has continued to grow since then, the stuff he's posting now is just so many levels above me that I don't currently have the mental and emotional prerequisites to take advantage of it. But I will.

In the meanwhile, Steve's older articles are still online, and very useful indeed. I'll move onto the more advanced articles when I'm ready for them.

[EDIT]
P.S. Let's cut Bix some slack, everyone. He is entitled to his opinions, and telling someone "if you don't like it, leave!" rarely leads to growth for anyone...