Working for Free (Blog)

[Savage]

Use this thread to discuss the following entry from Steve Pavlina's blog:

Working for Free

[cdn2wheeler]

Initially I was a bit annoyed at the topic. From my experience, working for free was tantamount to slavery. My bias comes from my history of coming in early to the office, staying late, working through lunch, always going that extra mile and whatnot with no extra pay or recognition in consideration of the extra effort.

But as I read through the topic it became clear that the intention was that working for free - or, rather, providing value for free - had actually more to do with building foundations on which to build a growing and thriving personal brand.

Then I saw this, which I think is brilliant:

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I suggest you also maintain a minimum standard of giving.

There is much wisdom in that statement. Well done.

[Nneka]

I've found this approach extremely effective in my own life. I remember wanting to work for a particular organization. Before even checking to see if they had a position open, I began to volunteer. I really just wanted to be mentored by the leader of the organization. I went from volunteering a few hours a week, to working part-time, then full-time.

I know a few people who got laid off and were unable to find employment for 1-2 years. I've found that when I'm looking for a job and having a hard time, one of the best things to do is start volunteering. Beside getting my name out, it helps me to keep in the habit of working and keeps me open.

[Savage]

If you're working for free for someone and it's clear they don't appreciate you much, dump them and shift your attention to someone who will appreciate you. There's no need to waste your time and energy on the ungrateful.

You can even tell people up front that you're working for free to build your experience and referral base. Therefore, you eventually expect to charge for your work, and you also expect referrals from people you've helped.

[Erin Pavlina]

This works the other way around too. When I was running my magazine I needed help with writing all the columns but I couldn't afford to pay anyone because the income generated was like $100 a month and it barely covered my operating expenses. So I put out a call to my readers and asked for volunteers. 5 women volunteered. As soon as the magazine was making more money I decided to offer payment for the work these women were doing for free. I asked them all if they would be willing to continue doing their work and also get paid for it. All of them agreed. (who wouldn't I guess). But it never occured to me to find other people. These women had been doing such a great job for me for free that I was so happy when I could finally afford to pay them.

[shnu]

I agree nearly wholeheartedly with this post. One important caveat: don't get trapped into *anything* that might make you feel you are obligated to provide other people with value for free. With commitment should come consideration, be it monetary or some other thing of certain value.

[Laranja]

Steve, the shorter blog articles format sucks. You stil try to incorporate all the various views you have to offer on the topic. But given the articles are shorter there is offcourse less space to present each point. That makes your speech appear a bit shallow, compared to the older articles. (The cool thing is since you are a geek I cans just say it. )

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Laranja

Steve, the shorter blog articles format sucks. You stil try to incorporate all the various views you have to offer on the topic. But given the articles are shorter there is offcourse less space to present each point. That makes your speech appear a bit shallow, compared to the older articles. (The cool thing is since you are a geek I cans just say it. )

That's one of the major challenges of blogging as a medium for covering these kinds of topics. I'm also writing an 80,000-word book which will be done by the end of the month, so that offers a lot more room to develop ideas from high-level concept to practical application.

[JohnR]

As a full time painter -- with occasional forays into other home based ventures to improve cash flow :-) -- I can say that artists in general are all about giving it away. I don't mean giving their products away. I mean that artists by and large put so much of themselves into what they do, that they end up offering themselves up in ways that are not tangible.

My web site for example; I built it for two reasons. One was to gain exposure further afield, but equally important was to share my paintings and my feelings with anyone who can connect with them. And then there is supplying galleries with paintings to show. Most people browse galleries for the enjoyment of viewing art, not to buy. Perhaps it inspires them, and they leave satisfied. Galleries do not buy the paintings they show. The artist provides them on consignment. I have about $20,000 worth of paintings in one gallery, and I use to be 3 to 4 galleries, and will again.

I guess I'm saying that besides the paintings for sale, there is much more exchanged than money for products. Being an artist is a lifestyle that you share. You make it work by making it a business, but primarily you are sharing your self. Perhaps this is another "take" on the working for free concept.

Especially in the fields of art and writing, it is important to remember that you are not just selling or buying a painting or a book; you are offering or receiving the spirit; the soul. We should be careful to notice and value these nuances.

Cheers,
John
Landscape Paintings of British Columbia - John Rocheleau

[Martijn Aslander]

Hi!

I'm doing lectures on this subject.

I've been living this way since 6 years now.
This way, I'm not only aquiring monetary capital (money, which in nature is artificially scarce) but tremendous amounts of social capital (that you can share much easier than money) and information capital that I can share much easier than social capital.

If you want to set something in motion on this planet, you need people, information and ideas. Working for free provides you the necessary resources faster than when you only focus on monetary capital.

Setting things in motion provides you the essential feedback on your assumptions.

For me, working this way has been speeding up a lot of learning on various subjects. It also opened up a value discussion. What is value, and how and where can I be of value.

Asking money for your services can be an expression of fear. The fear of not getting what you think is fair for the thing you did. This fear might be a sincere fear, based on experiences in the past. But besides that, not asking money for your services but leaving the eventual rewards up to others, learned me a lot.

Give it a try. In this networked society, attention is one of the most scarce things. Throwing up barriers to your services could turn out to be a much less effective strategy then assumed.

Martijn Aslander
Lifehacker-Connector-Resourcerer
The Netherlands

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

That's one of the major challenges of blogging as a medium for covering these kinds of topics. I'm also writing an 80,000-word book which will be done by the end of the month, so that offers a lot more room to develop ideas from high-level concept to practical application.

Your recent career-related blog posts had plenty of depth. Perhaps this one would have been better as two blog posts rather than one?

BTW, have you lined up a distributor for your book yet? And will you be selling e-versions?

[Mr.Mustache]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I'm also writing an 80,000-word book which will be done by the end of the month, so that offers a lot more room to develop ideas from high-level concept to practical application.

I don't mean to get too far off topic but this caught my eye. Sounds neat. What will you be covering specifically, Steve?

[Paul C]

This has been yet another great perspective to take into consideration, especially so because of my interest in art.

What comes to mind at the moment that relates to providing value for no pay (concerning artistic pursuits) is DeviantArt- there's an easily accessible audience and there's at least a number of artist who are professionals on the site (although, I would have to say they're not the majority there). Which more often than not leads to having your own site that is also used to display your artwork for potential buyers/fans, etc.

This was a timely post.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by Paul C

This has been yet another great perspective to take into consideration, especially so because of my interest in art.

I read about an interesting artist recently, who goes by the name Banksy. It's a good example of doing art for free -- he has painted a lot of graffiti around England, but his work is actually valued very highly. Some of his graffiti is valued at hundreds of thousands of British pounds, and he has been hired to do custom work. As far as I can tell, the only reason he got popular is because of his free work.

[nomi]

I'm not sure this always works either. My husband and I tried this when we first started our web site design business. All of the people we provided free service for didn't appreciate it and we never got any referrals from it. It was all rather disappointing actually. It could be that we just worked with the wrong people, but it's not something I'd want to do again.

At this point, I would probably consider doing a free site for a non-profit that I really wanted to support, but that's about it.

[Anuradha]

Originally Posted by Laranja

Steve, the shorter blog articles format sucks. You stil try to incorporate all the various views you have to offer on the topic. But given the articles are shorter there is offcourse less space to present each point. That makes your speech appear a bit shallow, compared to the older articles. (The cool thing is since you are a geek I cans just say it. )

Well said; I've been finding the need to go back to the older articles (like some on conciousness) for my vitamin shots of will and effort to work with awareness. They speak from a different level.

[Savage]

FYI the book I'm writing is tentatively titled Personal Development for Smart People. It won't be on the shelves until Q4 2008 based on the current publishing schedule. The publisher requires months of lead time for the pre-release marketing.

I originally thought about self-publishing the book, but I opted to go with a publisher instead. I'd probably earn a lot more money from self-publishing, but I'd rather have bigger distribution and get the book into more people's hands, especially in the offline world. I'll announce more details about the book when it's closer to release, but basically it covers all aspects of PD, from core principles to tools and techniques to practical application.

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

FYI the book I'm writing is tentatively titled Personal Development for Smart People. It won't be on the shelves until Q4 2008 based on the current publishing schedule. The publisher requires months of lead time for the pre-release marketing.

I originally thought about self-publishing the book, but I opted to go with a publisher instead. I'd probably earn a lot more money from self-publishing, but I'd rather have bigger distribution and get the book into more people's hands, especially in the offline world. I'll announce more details about the book when it's closer to release, but basically it covers all aspects of PD, from core principles to tools and techniques to practical application.

Just curious about this, Steve. Will you be using quotes from those who have posted on the forums here? What are the legal ramifications of that, especially regarding copyrights?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by nomi

I'm not sure this always works either. My husband and I tried this when we first started our web site design business. All of the people we provided free service for didn't appreciate it and we never got any referrals from it. It was all rather disappointing actually. It could be that we just worked with the wrong people, but it's not something I'd want to do again.

At this point, I would probably consider doing a free site for a non-profit that I really wanted to support, but that's about it.

I think a person has to be wise about what they give for free. I don't think free product is a wise choice in the art or design field. It tends to devalue what you sell.

There are other ways to offer something for free that is not your product, but a lead-in perhaps. For web site designers, a free mission statement consultation might work. It provides value to the client for free, but actually gives you a better shot at selling your main product, since there is already a positive dialog that sets the stage for a good site design.

Just some thoughts :-)

John
Landscape Paintings of British Columbia - John Rocheleau

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I originally thought about self-publishing the book, but I opted to go with a publisher instead. I'd probably earn a lot more money from self-publishing, but I'd rather have bigger distribution and get the book into more people's hands, especially in the offline world.

Steve,

I know you have a publisher, but have a look at Dan Poynter's site -- Para Publishing - Welcome to Para Publishing -- He is mainly about self-publishing, but he has a wealth of information for writers like yourself who are going with a publisher. A publisher will only do so much in promotions, and only for a limited time.

I have his book "Self-Publishing Manual." It contains a tremendous amount of quality experienced-based information, and like I say, a lot of it applies whether you self-publish or go with a publisher. The thing is, most of the promotion that counts is really up to the writer. Dan relates all that in detail, with lots of references to who or what you need to connect with.

Check it out.

Good luck,
John
Landscape Paintings of British Columbia - John Rocheleau

[Erin Pavlina]

John, we've very familiar with Dan Poynter's book. I used it to publish two of my books with excellent results. We're very supportive and understanding of the whole self-publishing thing but Steve specifically wanted to go with a publisher that could promote him and distribute his book offline. Steve's publisher is excellent at promoting their authors and supports them very well, better than most publishers I'd say. But thanks for the idea.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by cdn2wheeler

Just curious about this, Steve. Will you be using quotes from those who have posted on the forums here? What are the legal ramifications of that, especially regarding copyrights?

No, I wasn't planning on that.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Steve,

I know you have a publisher, but have a look at Dan Poynter's site -- Para Publishing - Welcome to Para Publishing -- He is mainly about self-publishing, but he has a wealth of information for writers like yourself who are going with a publisher. A publisher will only do so much in promotions, and only for a limited time.

I have his book "Self-Publishing Manual." It contains a tremendous amount of quality experienced-based information, and like I say, a lot of it applies whether you self-publish or go with a publisher. The thing is, most of the promotion that counts is really up to the writer. Dan relates all that in detail, with lots of references to who or what you need to connect with.

I've read a couple of Dan's books including the Self-Publishing Manual. I also met him in person when he came to Vegas. Erin used his methods to successfully self-publish two of her books. I definitely recommend his materials for anyone who wants to go the self-publishing or self-promotional route.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

John, we've very familiar with Dan Poynter's book. I used it to publish two of my books with excellent results. We're very supportive and understanding of the whole self-publishing thing but Steve specifically wanted to go with a publisher that could promote him and distribute his book offline. Steve's publisher is excellent at promoting their authors and supports them very well, better than most publishers I'd say. But thanks for the idea.

Hey Erin,

That's great to have a publisher like that. Maybe the link will benefit someone else. I love the amount of "meat" Dan Packs into his books and newsletters. Very useful and useable.

By the way, have you thought (I'm sure you have) of using "personal Development For Smart People" as the subtitle only, and create a catchy and memorable main title? Just a thought.

Cheers,
John
Landscape Paintings of British Columbia - John Rocheleau

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I've read a couple of Dan's books including the Self-Publishing Manual. I also met him in person when he came to Vegas. Erin used his methods to successfully self-publish two of her books. I definitely recommend his materials for anyone who wants to go the self-publishing or self-promotional route.

I love it when people like Dan put their guidance together in such a cohesive manner. His recommendations (for self-publishers) to write, from start to finish, using the styles and format that will eventually be sent to the printer, is a good idea, though setting up "word" for this properly is not easy.

I also like his idea of writing the first chapter last, and the back cover first

All the best,
John
Landscape Paintings of British Columbia - John Rocheleau

[Mr.Mustache]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

FYI the book I'm writing is tentatively titled Personal Development for Smart People.

I think that should be the sub-title. The book won't stick out if you use it as the main one, plus it would just be cooler.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by Mr.Mustache

I think that should be the sub-title. The book won't stick out if you use it as the main one, plus it would just be cooler.

How 'bout PAVLINA!! in glitter on the cover, with jazz hands?

[KeithHandy]

Originally Posted by carenkh

How 'bout PAVLINA!! in glitter on the cover, with jazz hands?

And for the inside flap, he needs to be photographed from above head level with a fisheye lens, so he has a big head and tiny body.

[impaul99]

Will the book be free?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by impaul99

Will the book be free?

Not if the publisher wants to recoup the advance in a timely manner.