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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2006, 06:56 AM
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It's actually what comes after it that I was worried about, but thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by demk
You dont have to believe the ego. Trying to find these so-called beliefs creates them.
I can see what you mean, but in this context I'm dealing with fears that have already been created through unconscious ego patterns and then been stuffed into the subconscious. These are long-standing fears that I've associated with specific concepts, all having to do with "future," and bringing them into present moment awareness and doing a "walk-through" seems to dissolve them. And when these specific fears have been dissolved, fear itself in general gradually loses energy/credibility and will not be able to become rooted in the subconscious.

So while it isn't strictly necessary to confront the specific, context dependent, subconscious fears, it helps to accelerate the process of going beyond fear in general. I.e., it's not necessary to call the ego's bluff in order to know that what it says isn't true, but it is a useful tool nonetheless. (at least as a temporary crutch)

Last edited by helgi : 11-24-2006 at 07:26 AM.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2006, 10:14 AM
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Well, according to the standard IM model, we, the people that don't agree with the classic model are part of your fears too...
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2006, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helgi View Post
It's actually what comes after it that I was worried about, but thanks!

I can see what you mean, but in this context I'm dealing with fears that have already been created through unconscious ego patterns and then been stuffed into the subconscious. These are long-standing fears that I've associated with specific concepts, all having to do with "future," and bringing them into present moment awareness and doing a "walk-through" seems to dissolve them. And when these specific fears have been dissolved, fear itself in general gradually loses energy/credibility and will not be able to become rooted in the subconscious.

So while it isn't strictly necessary to confront the specific, context dependent, subconscious fears, it helps to accelerate the process of going beyond fear in general. I.e., it's not necessary to call the ego's bluff in order to know that what it says isn't true, but it is a useful tool nonetheless. (at least as a temporary crutch)
Are you talking about the way you are naturally inclined to behave is infuenced by your subconscious? I often wonder why I dont just get on with certain things. Maybe I need to deal with some subconscious fears?

Can you give me an example of how bringing your fears into the light has changed your behaviour and explain further? I'm not asking you to be personal, just make one up or something. Thanks.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2006, 04:49 PM
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The biggest issue I've had is with future-projection and planning, and then also a fear of rejection.

The issue with "future" is probably that it is one of the mainstays of ego motivated thinking, with it always looking for something in the future for its salvation etc., and so whatever ego there is left is likely to be activated when thinking about the future.

So, because the future is then nothing but an abstracted mental image made from bits and pieces of fear-contaminated concepts, thinking about the future becomes an exercise of the ego to project itself into this abstracted mental image. When this happens, not only is it attempting to cobble together a believable "reality" for itself, it's doing it with a few pieces of a puzzle that don't fit together, making up (inevitably fear-based) pieces in between to complete the puzzle.

I feel that when I'm contemplating something in the future, I'm running into the largest surviving parts of my ego. The subconscious fears are the remaining building-blocks of it, what it uses to maintain itself and survive; entities of concentrated context-dependent fear that you've accumulated over the years.

The ego is able to cultivate these fears while we're not conscious enough to notice, and so I think that the issue with subconscious fears is something that will not continue to be a problem having gone through with it once. It's almost like having gotten rid of a slob roommate, and then discovering beer bottles under the couch months later. He won't be back, and so once you throw out the stuff he left behind you've cleared the problem once and for all.

Last edited by helgi : 11-24-2006 at 04:54 PM. Reason: spelling etc.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2006, 07:19 PM
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Maybe these fears also stem from confusing reality with real life, and assuming that we should live our life how we see on TV. Instead, we should recognize the TV is simply a communication medium for news and other information. Wouldn't it be cool if TV's and projections merged into ultra reality ?
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2006, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helgi View Post
The biggest issue I've had is with future-projection and planning, and then also a fear of rejection.

The issue with "future" is probably that it is one of the mainstays of ego motivated thinking, with it always looking for something in the future for its salvation etc., and so whatever ego there is left is likely to be activated when thinking about the future.

So, because the future is then nothing but an abstracted mental image made from bits and pieces of fear-contaminated concepts, thinking about the future becomes an exercise of the ego to project itself into this abstracted mental image. When this happens, not only is it attempting to cobble together a believable "reality" for itself, it's doing it with a few pieces of a puzzle that don't fit together, making up (inevitably fear-based) pieces in between to complete the puzzle.

I feel that when I'm contemplating something in the future, I'm running into the largest surviving parts of my ego. The subconscious fears are the remaining building-blocks of it, what it uses to maintain itself and survive; entities of concentrated context-dependent fear that you've accumulated over the years.

The ego is able to cultivate these fears while we're not conscious enough to notice, and so I think that the issue with subconscious fears is something that will not continue to be a problem having gone through with it once. It's almost like having gotten rid of a slob roommate, and then discovering beer bottles under the couch months later. He won't be back, and so once you throw out the stuff he left behind you've cleared the problem once and for all.
To be perfectly honest with you I don't quite understand. I'm reading A Return to Love by Marianne Williamson at the moment so I will probably return to this thread after I have learned more.

I apologise to anyone concerned if I presented myself as an expert. I am dealing with my ego's need for recognition lol.

Thanks for the brain food Helgi et al.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2006, 12:19 AM
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Lightbulb Steve's Package Deal & EFT: Hand-in-glove

I really appreciated Steve's blog. I find it more helpful than the Abram-Hicks material about climbing some sort of emotional/vibrational ladder, because Steve helps you to see exactly what is in your conceptual configuration of your desire that is causing it to misfire.

That way you can focus in specifically on your fear issues to neutralize them.

That's helpful and I'm going to try it--been really bogged down about how to think about IM, so thanks for teasing out some of the strands for us.

It seems to me that Steve is using the tools he developed in dealing with concrete issues on more abstract issues now, and it makes perfect sense to me to make that expansion.

This is a new way of thinking and requires some inner experiential reference points to make sense, it seems to me.

Of course, people are free to ask (or demand) that it be explained objectively, but I don't think it works that way. There has to be more than intellectual curiosity at work, or you won't be able to feel your way into understanding what is said.

I just read this article from Gary Craig's EFT newsletter which seems germane to Steve's blog:

Quote:
EFT collapses competing thoughts and thus aids The Law of Attraction

With most of the Law of Attraction material I have seen it seems they want you to “buck up” and switch to something more positive but most people can’t bootstrap as quickly as that. EFT has made that part of manifestation work very simple, easy, and quite effective.

EFT collapses competing thoughts and thus aids The Law of Attraction
I'm going to work with combining what Steve said about your intentions being a "package deal" and just letting your fears "be" with EFT, which, after all specializes in working with the package deal and letting things just be.

Fits hand-in-glove, seems to me.

Thanks so much!

Megan
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2006, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demk View Post
To be perfectly honest with you I don't quite understand.
Heh, I wouldn't even claim that I fully understood any of this either. And really, the more complicated these speculations are the less useful they tend to be. Which is what we see in philosophy; a limitless occupation with words as an end in themselves. It's almost like climbing a ladder to gain perspective on the ground underneath (which would be essence/truth), and then continuing to climb higher and higher until you no longer see the ground anymore. Before you know it, your life has become about climbing ladders instead of using them as a means of gaining perspective on the ground, and probably won't come in contact with the ground again until you fall off the ladder and crash into it face-first (finding peace through suffering).

It's important to remember that to realize it, words can become a hindrance when approached as an end in themselves, rather than as mere pointers to something that cannot really be expressed with words.

When I write about these things, in my journal or on here, it's almost like the ready-fire-aim approach Steve has described in relation to business start-ups. I often don't really know what I'm talking about and just focus on stringing some words together, and every now and then something triggers an 'aha!' moment (in myself or whoever happens to be reading).
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2006, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helgi View Post
Heh, I wouldn't even claim that I fully understood any of this either. And really, the more complicated these speculations are the less useful they tend to be. Which is what we see in philosophy; a limitless occupation with words as an end in themselves. It's almost like climbing a ladder to gain perspective on the ground underneath (which would be essence/truth), and then continuing to climb higher and higher until you no longer see the ground anymore. Before you know it, your life has become about climbing ladders instead of using them as a means of gaining perspective on the ground, and probably won't come in contact with the ground again until you fall off the ladder and crash into it face-first (finding peace through suffering).

It's important to remember that to realize it, words can become a hindrance when approached as an end in themselves, rather than as mere pointers to something that cannot really be expressed with words.

When I write about these things, in my journal or on here, it's almost like the ready-fire-aim approach Steve has described in relation to business start-ups. I often don't really know what I'm talking about and just focus on stringing some words together, and every now and then something triggers an 'aha!' moment (in myself or whoever happens to be reading).

Yeah, its all good because you get closer all the time. I sometimes worry whether people take what people write on the borads as gospel but they probably don't. You just have to keep reading, writing and learning and actual knowledge seems to have its own organising powers inherant within it. I always find that as soon as I know something I automatically apply it.

At the moment surrender seems to be working best to overcome my inertia. You reprogram your future in the present so you are constantly faced with the next challenges. When you are ready for them you seem to know what you have to do. Last night I faced a challenge where my ego was writhing in self justification and the solution was to stick through it. In hindsight the answer was so simple - I situation triggered feelings of rejection that my ego was trying to guard me against and all I had to do was have the intent of offering acceptance and let the situation pan out (it was crazy because I kept hearing the word acceptance in my environment and I knew that was what I had to give because it also was what I wanted). All the thoughts the ego presented me were the usual forest of neurotic self justification that ultimately meant nothing. They dissapeared after I acted.

On the subject of Steve's method for finding fears, I still think you could be assisting your ego in finding its excuses. The real battle is in the moment. My tactic now is to surrender and trust that I will have the right perception of things when I come to them. The apprehension I get when I go to work on certain projects is created by my ego and if I explored it I would get a lot of related thoughts/fears/excuses. I know that by making a habit of acting in accordance with what I really know I should be doing at any moment (acting in accordance with your higher self you could say) the low level anxiety/apprehension will go. The ego will learn that it can't use that method to control my behaviour. Face your fears and they dissapear.

Maybe this is different for some people and genuine concerns can be rationalised away or accepted. On some level though I think you know that you will have to do more tax stuff if you made lots of money and it doesnt really bother you. What bothers you, or what bothers the ego, is any type of change at all.

The universe is always guiding us towards what we need to do to fulfill our desires so surrender and let it. Don't think too much lol. Just act.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2006, 12:10 AM
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You can actually analyse Steve's post without having to use the "fear" concept at all.

Just look at it this way - what you think you want may not really be what you want.

For example, you may think that you wish to be promoted at work. You therefore seek to manifest this through your thoughts.

However, at a deeper level, you can already sense what the cost of this success may be. Eg after being promoted, you will have to work harder; spend less time with your family; take on new responsibilities which you suspect you may not enjoy.

So these reservations interfere with your intention-manifestation attempt. You could regard these reservations as "fears". Or you could just view them as part of a "goal clarification" exercise, where you are trying to work out what you really want.

That is, do you really want that promotion?

After walking around in your own head, you may well decide that you DON'T want that promotion. For example, you may decide that the better thing to do is to switch into a different career altogether. In that case, you should stop wasting your time manifesting your promotion into reality.
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Old 11-26-2006, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot View Post
You can actually analyse Steve's post without having to use the "fear" concept at all.

Just look at it this way - what you think you want may not really be what you want.

For example, you may think that you wish to be promoted at work. You therefore seek to manifest this through your thoughts.

However, at a deeper level, you can already sense what the cost of this success may be. Eg after being promoted, you will have to work harder; spend less time with your family; take on new responsibilities which you suspect you may not enjoy.

So these reservations interfere with your intention-manifestation attempt. You could regard these reservations as "fears". Or you could just view them as part of a "goal clarification" exercise, where you are trying to work out what you really want.

That is, do you really want that promotion?

After walking around in your own head, you may well decide that you DON'T want that promotion. For example, you may decide that the better thing to do is to switch into a different career altogether. In that case, you should stop wasting your time manifesting your promotion into reality.
I'm reading a really good book at the moment by Marianne Williamson calle A Return To Love (I can tell its going to be one I read over and over). I woke up this morning thinking about a quote in it. She says there are two important points to remember when setting goals...

1 - Gods plan works.

2 - Yours doesnt.

She also say that due to the power of the subconscious mind you will probably get what you focus on but will that be the best thing? There is no way our minds can ever think about every possible outcome. Living in the moment is a way to trust the universe in surrender. So is following your bliss.

I personally know the power of visualisation and it frustrated me in the past that I dont just manifest myself the life I would like. The truth is that I probably would destroy myself or something lol. My ego would go wild and binge on short term pleasures. The universe knows this. It is probably why I only ever get really clear minded after doing some work to notice my ego (noticing the thoughts I have that are ego based makes me much more lucid like a hardware upgrade in my mind).

My plan at the moment is surrender. Life seems to be teaching me what I need to know. You have to trust that the universe has your best wishes at heart and is trying to make it happen in the best way possible and will if you let it. There are certain things I have to overcome first. God wants me to have a nice life and is guiding me there.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2006, 09:29 AM
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In principle, I agree with a large part of your post.

In practice, both approaches can be extremely frightening, for people who have delved deep enough to understand the implications.

If you take the position that you create your own reality entirely, and that something as powerful as LOA in your hands - then you have to be completely responsible for everything that occurs in your life. And you have absolutely no excuse left, to be mediocre or ordinary.

If however you surrender completely to a higher power, then you have to face the possibility that your connection might break someday and you'll be left stranded. It happens to the best of us - think Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.

That is why most of us are somewhere in the middle zone. It's the most limited area, and the most comforting.

Maintaining that state of surrender is not particularly easy either. This is due to the inherent nature of the mind to disturb itself (something thoroughly explained in Buddhism).
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2006, 09:34 AM
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Thought for the day -

if you really know how to make the Law of Attraction work, why are you manifesting an intention as utterly mundane as:

"I earn $1,000,000 a year".
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2006, 12:21 PM
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I suppose the best intention to have is for everything to work out perfectly in the best possible way. Even if i were to choose a goal of creating a really lofty ideal there is no way I can know that it would be the best thing for me to do or whether any of the infinite conditions would be for the best. Hopefully the universe knows.
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:42 PM
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Just imagine a beautiful peaceful land with plenty of water.
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Old 11-28-2006, 09:41 AM
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I loved this article it was so relevant to the issue I'm dealing with at this moment.
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