Question for Steve and Erin

[homeboy]

As I caught three mouse on the sticky traps I was wondering what kind of moral implications this means. I know for sure animals and such feel pain and have some sort of soul. Now assuming this, the traps are cruel but necessary. If you have pets and children, you understand that pests such as rodents and insects (although souls for insects too are debatable and not sure if they even feel pain) can cause some concern for pets and children as they MIGHT carry diseases and the like. This is especially true if you live in the city and such. SO I was wondering... how do you guys deal with them? I understand your point in not eating meat and their animal by-products but what about dealing with them in an everyday situation? I know there exists a temple somewhere in India that cater to rats and stuff (seen on documentary) but it's still a huge risk to an everyday person. So... what do you do? What can I do?

[Erin Pavlina]

I was just reading in the PETA magazine that the glue traps are really inhumane becuase the animals end up starving to death over a three day period or however long it takes them to die. We have not had to deal with those sorts of pests so I'm not sure what we would do.

You may want to pop around the peta.org website to see if they can answer this type of question. I'm sure it's been answered somewhere on their site.

I do draw the line at cockroaches in the house. If I see a cockroach in the house I will kill it. That's right, I will step on it and end it's life.

I have a tendency to let spiders live in peace with us, unless they are poisonous to us or the kids and then they forfeit their lives when they cross my house's threshold.

Living in peace with with all life would be ideal if some of that life wasn't poisonous to us.

[Zukin]

These may help give you peace of mind:

humane mouse traps - Google Search

[homeboy]

lol i was so caught up i forgot to google. Thanks Zukin.

Thanks Erin for replying too. They screech n stuff on the sticky pads. It's unnerving, but now I can do something about it.

[Steve Pavlina]

I've never seen rodents in our area aside from a jackrabbit now and then.

In our yard the main animals we see are lizards and hummingbirds. I think the lizards are cool, and our daughter likes them too. Erin put up a hummingbird feeder in our yard, so they come around every day and will sometimes hover outside our windows... either to say thanks or to remind Erin to refill the feeder.

As for mice I think there are some ultra-sonic rodent repeller devices you can plug into a wall socket. I don't know how humane or safe they are, but it might be something to look into. I think they're only a few dollars each.

[Livgivare]

Some of Petas ideas is good, like never wear an animals fur unless you've eaten most of the parts that is on the animal. But I think that being too much into the animal-rights are as bad as the tests that hospitals and labs does with rats. Why let animals free that have no clue of how to live outside the cage and let to die in the nature slowly but surely. And why are some animal-rights activists against huting animals in the forrest that we as humans have done ever since we started to walk on two legs? Because I think that hunters do care as deeply about the animals not feeling pain when the bullet comes as any animal-lover in the world...

Just a few words by me!

Love Leelene

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

I was just reading in the PETA magazine that the glue traps are really inhumane becuase the animals end up starving to death over a three day period or however long it takes them to die. We have not had to deal with those sorts of pests so I'm not sure what we would do.

You may want to pop around the peta.org website to see if they can answer this type of question. I'm sure it's been answered somewhere on their site.

I do draw the line at cockroaches in the house. If I see a cockroach in the house I will kill it. That's right, I will step on it and end it's life.

I have a tendency to let spiders live in peace with us, unless they are poisonous to us or the kids and then they forfeit their lives when they cross my house's threshold.

Living in peace with with all life would be ideal if some of that life wasn't poisonous to us.

I would not take any advice from Peta. They are a ridiculous orginisation. I remember reading on their site how it's "cruel" to let cats outside because they might get hurt by another animal or vehicle. And their ad with Alicia Silverstone was incredibly stupid. You can care about animals and be a vegetarian without supporting an organisation that makes sensible people who also care about animals look stupid.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by homeboy

As I caught three mouse on the sticky traps I was wondering what kind of moral implications this means. I know for sure animals and such feel pain and have some sort of soul. Now assuming this, the traps are cruel but necessary. If you have pets and children, you understand that pests such as rodents and insects (although souls for insects too are debatable and not sure if they even feel pain) can cause some concern for pets and children as they MIGHT carry diseases and the like. This is especially true if you live in the city and such. SO I was wondering... how do you guys deal with them? I understand your point in not eating meat and their animal by-products but what about dealing with them in an everyday situation? I know there exists a temple somewhere in India that cater to rats and stuff (seen on documentary) but it's still a huge risk to an everyday person. So... what do you do? What can I do?

Insects might not have soul, yet rodents do? That's what i don't like about all this animal soul thing, once we assume that animals have souls, where's the line separating one animal to the other? If one animal has a soul, all animals have; if one animal doesn't has a soul, then no animal does (needless to say, i don't believe either we or any animal or any insect or any worm or any damn piece of rock has any soul).


With that said, even if you do believe that rodents have a soul, they are still a potential danger to you since they can carry diseases to your home, so just kill the damn rat! If you don't do it, they will possibly damage you and your family's health. Screw them before they screw you; can't get simplier.

[JeremyW]

I think we can safely assume that only cute animals have souls

[Max Power]

Hurting living things by killing pests or eating animals seems to fear based, who are you really hurting? Will God be mad? You won't get into heaven? You're killing off a part of yourself, so you're hurting yourself?

It seems to imply fear, fear of dying (I'll eat really, really heathy) fear of conseqence (I will be punished somehow) would you kill someone to save your own life? The more we tighten up our self imposed rules about right and wrong, the closer to sitting on a mountain top alone we get.

As long as everything and everyone is not you, then it will always be you vs them and that applys to mice also People die in their thousands everyday and you don't care (it's outside your awareness) but kill a mouse in a trap and it's full of doubt and potential fear.

Doesn't make sense, because it doesn't matter.

Max