|09-23-2007, 05:19 PM||#1 (permalink)|
Join Date: Nov 2006
So... Are Dark Workers Stuck in Solipsism?
Hello! this is my first post!
In this period of my life I'm trying to choose a polarity, so right now I'm in the middle of my 30 days trial named "What is it like to be a dark worker?"
After reading Steve's article "Subjective Reality Simplified" I was wondering if being a dark worker means being able to see the big container of realities called SR (subjective reality) only through the perspective of solipsism, because this seems what I'm experiencing right now.
Think about it: how can a dark worker experience true SR and one-ness if he lives in a fear-based context? I'm beginning to believe that light working is the only way to truly live a full SR experience.
I admit that I'd like to know more about dark working, after all Steve's perspective seems a bit biased towards light working.
I'm very curious about this, any answer will be very appreciated!
|09-24-2007, 02:36 AM||#2 (permalink)|
Join Date: Nov 2006
I prefer to call darkworkers "fearworkers" and lightworkers "loveworkers." i also like to use the analogy of droplets in an ocean for SR. A droplet is an individual consciousness, and the ocean is the collective consciousness.
Fearworkers' fear means the fear of death. The fearworker sees itself as a droplet that doesn't want to dissipate (die.) So, it exists in the ocean so it can preserve its own existence. If the droplet does not take care of the other droplets in the ocean, there would be no ocean, and it would die. Helping others, in turn, helps itself.
In contrast, loveworkers love means love of others. The loveworker sees itself as a droplet that wants to serve other droplets in the ocean. If the droplet does not take care of itself, it won't dissipate. Helping itself, in turn, helps others.
Does this make sense to you?
|09-24-2007, 05:17 AM||#3 (permalink)|
Join Date: Nov 2006
I agree with you guys as well.
Darkworking / fear, by definition, implies boundaries and separation. In true oneness/SR, there is no possibility of fear, only love. There is nothing to defend or take from others, it is all one and it is all you. SR and lightworking is synonymous, in my opinion.
For darkworkers to polarize, they would have to erect more and more boundaries and enforce them. To continue the analogy, the droplet will have to protect itself from merging into the ocean by doing whatever is necessary. If the darkworker uses solipsism, then the droplet does not need to care what happens to the ocean, because the ocean exists purely to serve the droplet. This would probably be the best scenario for the true darkworker.
|09-24-2007, 06:00 AM||#4 (permalink)|
Join Date: Sep 2007
I don't understand what you guys are talking about. I feel like you're making everything too confusing.
And not to nitpick, geekchic9, but I don't understand why you added the term "individual conciousness" to the ocean-droplet analogy. The most simple definition is, "we are all droplets in an ocean of consciousness." You wouldn't say "we are all droplets of ocean water in an ocean," would you? It's important to use the simplest definitions, or we'll end up with terms like "god consciousness” and “lightworker syndrome.”
I think gl-84 raises an excellent question about whether solipsism is the best perspective for a darkworker, if only to avoid guilt, but we can't discuss it unless we get our definitions straight. I hope Steve writes an article on simplifying lightworkers and darkworkers, to clear up the "fearworker, loveworker" mess that's going on now.
I'm avidly watching the "Simplifying Subjective Reality" thread to see if Steve really did simplify it, or if it will remain undefinable.
Last edited by Seth 2; 09-24-2007 at 07:04 AM.
|09-24-2007, 07:10 AM||#5 (permalink)|
Join Date: Nov 2006
I like your analogy with the ocean, it helps greatly to understand the concept. But isn't the fearworking droplet living in a world of solipsism? I mean, If she/he fears death how could she truly believe she is living in a dream?
To Seth 2:
I think I'm beginning to understand what Steve tried to tell us when talking about the difference between light and dark working and why you have to embrace one OR the other: when there is true love there can be no fear and viceversa. So when you say:
"How can true oneness which encompasses EVERYTHING not include fear?"
maybe true oneness from a light worker perspective is love, which doesn't include fear.
And true oneness from a dark worker perspective is fear, which doesn't include love.
I don't see how these two can coexist.
When Steve started talking about this I thought that SR was the single most empowering perspective for anyone, but from Steve's last posts it is becoming clear that for him SR is not THE only perspective possible, but only the most empowering for him. I think that this is more accurate because it finally makes dark working something feasible: they just can't experience true SR or at least I still can't understand how they can resonate with something more than solipsism, in that context.
Darkworkers out there? Any answers?
|09-29-2007, 11:47 AM||#6 (permalink)|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Lets see if we can help you out! I have been "darkworking" for about 7 months now, and I'm interested in subjective reality.
Ik started a thread like this back then:
Darkworkers Live only in Objective Reality
Steve replies there that it is possible to have more 4 combinations of SR / OR and lightworking / darkworking. I decided that SR would have advantages over OR, and I started a 30 day trial in it, which is now going on for months
So I do darkworking in SR, and it is not solipsism. You talk about setting up boundaries of fear, but this is not my experience. I recognize others as real as myself, and through that I can move them like I move my thumb Steve says rightly that if you treat others poorly (like they are not real), then they will treat you poorly in return.. and we don't want that!
I feel SR redefines my relationship with the world. It is in my best interest to have my reality and everything in it depend on me. It helps me get out of the limited 'ego' perspective, so my action become more effective and I gain power over my surroundings.
That's basicly how I see it now.
Last edited by Kingston; 09-29-2007 at 11:57 AM. Reason: spelling
|09-29-2007, 12:25 PM||#7 (permalink)|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Darkness / The Never
Personally i don't see Darkworking as Fearworking. Its more about Selfworking. Its about improving yourself and as you improve, others are improved along with you, for example if i start a pioneering company in some area of life that needs a big improvement, I could earn millions, and be very happy, and be very fulfilled because its doing something I loved, and its also making lots of money. BUT as a side benefit, other people are also heklped by my product. I know as a Darkworker that the more I help people the more they can help me.
Apropos Darkworking is not fear working. In fact both polarities are incredibly similar.
|09-29-2007, 12:39 PM||#8 (permalink)|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Akashic, my actions ARE fear based. I tried to redefine it to just "self", like you do, but I find that my intentional energy is not as strong then. Fear is a strong force that is very present in my whole reality, and that always gives me a handle for changes in my own avatar or other avatars.
I get bored with my self easily. But fear is never boring, and I feel my "self" much more strongly when fear and power course through me.
|09-29-2007, 04:40 PM||#9 (permalink)|
Join Date: Feb 2007
I think Steve wrote somewhere that Lightworkers and Darkworkers are the same exact thing, they just start out from a different starting point. A Lightworker starts out with the intention to help others, and the Darkworker with the intention to help itself first and foremost.
But in the end they'll meet at the same place, because a Lightworker who ignores itself will impair its ability to help others, while a Darkworker who is awfully selfish and ignores others will damage itself in the long run.
The meeting point will be when they realize that what they should aim for is the highest good, where what is good for me is good for others, and what is good for others is good for me. You can start from any side, but they will eventually converge.
And Sollipsism = Darkworker? Don't think so. Sollipsism just means you think that your ego is the only real thing and everyone is a projection of your ego. If you're a Darkworker, you won't necessarily start to think like that. You'll just think that you should look out for No. 1 first.
|09-29-2007, 08:52 PM||#10 (permalink)|
Join Date: Nov 2006
I tend to agree with Kingston.
But it seems like Steve is able to confuse me every time he writes an article: in "Polarization" he clearly states
Darkworking = FEAR
Lightworking = LOVE
He even defines there the two words and makes examples of them.
But in other articles he says that darkworkers and lightworkers tend to become the same at higher levels of consciousness. I just wonder how power can become the same as humility.
I realize only now that what I'm asking is something I can't obtain. How can I hope to receive advice and help from darkworkers? Maybe this is something I must find out by myself.
|10-03-2007, 11:27 AM||#11 (permalink)|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Fascinating topic to discuss!
Personally I always had the "belief" that all others in the world around me were robots playing their little program. They would get in my life and go out and then shutdown, until they came back.
I've had this conviction from my very youth, and I found it quite interesting, but yet I couldn't really lay my finger on it.
So I was browsing Steve's articles a few days ago and I saw the article about sollipsism. I never heard of this, but it seemed to match my belief system from my first consciouss day.
But I also feel the social conditioning in myself. The reality that other people are real, with real feelings, is very convincing. When someone who has a lifeview as sollipsism would do something "illegal", there would be penalties in this reality, that's the only thing that is a argument against the truth of sollipsism.
After some thinking which I've been doing for some years now, I found out some ways to approach the reality-factor of sollipsism.
First of all you have the identification with your ego, your uniqueness, and your belief that you and your little internal world are the only thing real. Others don't have that inner world and are just an hologram perhaps. This means that if you can change you have the power to change the outer world.
The second approach is the more spiritual approach, in my opinion, the realization that you are not your ego, but non-personal consciousness. Steve also talked about this in his blog, but this realization is hard to put to words and can't hardly be brought to others. It is something most of us find out by ourselves, by some kind of trigger.
So when we realize we are non-personal consciousness, we get to the concept of "oneness". On a very basic, the essence-level, we are all one. That is why our material reality is an "illusion", since on essence-level, we are all the same and the individual is lost in the bigger part of itself.
After these two possible approaches (there are more, but I found these two the most important and most specific) we get to the point of changing our reality, since we are in control, right?
From the point of the person who believes his ego is the only thing real, he will start focussing on his inner world, his believes system, or maybe will start to practise some magic activities, or whatever creative method one will come up with.
Then the point from the person who realized the fact he is non-personal consciousness. This person knows he is in essence all there is, since he is himself made from the same essence, reality built up from. So when this person changes his own essence, probably in vibration, he changes the other essences.
So today we see a lot about The Law of Attraction, Steve talks about it aswell and it's all good. These "courses" mostly have a combined approach from sollipsism with ego and non-personal consciousness. They talk about changing yourself and thus changing your vibration and thus "attracting" vibrational-matches. The desires are made from an ego stance, the execution is made from a non-personal consciousness.
Okay so about the topic of Light and Darkworkers. I would like to say beforehand that I don't like the term Light and Dark. These are just tags of duality, and have nothing to do with reality, which is non-dual. But I also know we have to have a "general" understanding and "agreement" to have communication and interaction.
So let's say Lightworkers work from Love and Darkworkers from Fear.
As we know, Darkness is just the absence of light, and vice versa ofcourse. In our dual reality we know them as two diffirent things, but in reality they are very much connected and in essence are the same. Since Light cannot exist without Darkness, they are reliant on each other's existance. So now let's say Fear and Love are each other opposites, which they are not ofcourse, Fear can resolve Love and Love can resolve Fear.
How often has a relationship been broken, because the partners were to fearful of losing the other because they had such strong love and became paranoid?
So like Steve said, at one point both "Workers" are probable to meet. Since through deepening the one side of the duality, Lightworker and Darkworker, they will start to know their side more and more, and both realize at one point that one cannot exist without the other. At this point, the non-duality of both sides became the new reality and we could say the Light and Darkworker became a Worker, without a dual tag like Light and Dark.
To respond to the question of gl-84, how can power become the same as humility. I asked myself this question a lot too, it seemed impossible, how could anyone be strong yet humble? I realized that when someone knows it-Self, and realizes that he and the rest of the reality is in essence the same, there is no more need for someone to direct to his ego to feel better about himself. The ego puts others down to feel better about himself, but this is not required when there is full self-understanding.
So what is humility actually? It's something a lot of people have diffirent views about, it's very subjective. Is it sitting on your knees all day praying to your King or Queen? Is it being grateful and "humble" about the treasures life brings you? Is it living from the realization that there is something bigger than you, God, Allah, Krishna, whoever?
I've formed my opinion about it and also made this my lifeview. I know I'm in essence all there is, I am part of a greater being, but since I'm in essence the same as everything else, I am just as "powerful". I have the same power as any other being, creature or God. Yet at the same time, since I don't need external affirmation of my "greatness" I can be humble about my life experiences, accept what comes my way and enjoy it, knowing that it is a treasure and I have the power to influence it when I desire to do so.
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