Your thoughts on a spiritual debate?

[Max452]

Hi All,

I discovered this post on a christian website re the 'true' awareness debate.

basically the situation is of extremest christians vs the new age mages... After the usual slang match, this below entry was posted... i found it interesting.. but would like to know your thoughts:

Even if it is the christian way to believe in the devil and its negative influenence this doesn't give you the right to make others doubt themselves or their life experiences and self worth with your judgement and damnation.

Its time bible bashers leave the judgement of humanity to god. You were not put on this earth to do his bidding but simply to live by it. Not everyone accepts that they won't receive a second chance. regardless of what will come in the afterlife you should as 'enlightened spiritualists' should accept that you too don't actually know the true answer as you are mearly human yourself.

Dispite all of this, it is true to say that these people stumbled upon your site, chose to read your material, there is nothing wrong with stating your beliefs if there are others who wish to seek solace in those with similar views. But this forum has not remained an objective and informative resource, but mearly a slang match between the 'goodies and the badies'. The opinions posted on this site for both sides are nothing but drivel from two prideful sides of the debate.

Taking part in such an act is reducing the creditibility of your religion's followers and as such, the religion itself. Both parties here have done nothing but try to defend their beliefs and to what end?

Religions don't need defending, they are what they are. Leave your defensiveness for when you really need it. When your life is actually in physical jeapordy.

[Matthew Shea]

Unless the intention is to bring people of different beliefs closer together, engaging in this kind of "my religion is better than yours" debate just damages the credibility of both sides. Personally, I was raised and still am a practicing Catholic. I was taught that you lead by example and that your faith should shine through your actions everyday. The constant proselytizing by some of the more fundamentalist denominations makes me VERY uncomfortable. People often try to pass off mis-information and controversial bible interpretations as truth with the admonishment that you're going to hell if you don't convert (often stated as "you NEED to be saved"). IMHO, that's God's choice and he can do anything he wants.

[Max452]

Here Here!

Well said ^_^

i must say i whole heartedly agree.

i suppose if all religions took out the bits that proclaim it is the only right way to 'god' there wouldn't be any of the problems that we see today with holy wars and such...

Hmm... its like that Men are from Mars Women are from Venus idology, if we just accepted that everyone sees things differently there would be no problem..

(in truth this is a rather simplistic way of seeing the situation... im not at all worried to hear that it is a nieve way to see the world but if you believe so i'd like to know why...)

[Mew3692002]

I have to agree too, religion doesn't need to be defended by its followers. Although you don't need to have a religion to set off this kind of debate, simply by disagreeing with someone elses beliefs (or their own religion) is enough to spark such views. People just need to accept that everyone has different views and should be treated with respect (even if you don't believe in it).

[Maguru]

Hi Max, have you tried the evoltion v. creation forum? What you describe below is exactly the same. Slanging matches between the 'goodies' and the 'baddies'. The amusing thing is they all think they are goodies. You'd think you were in parliament!

Originally Posted by Max452

Hi All,

I discovered this post on a christian website re the 'true' awareness debate.

basically the situation is of extremest christians vs the new age mages... After the usual slang match, this below entry was posted... i found it interesting.. but would like to know your thoughts:

Even if it is the christian way to believe in the devil and its negative influenence this doesn't give you the right to make others doubt themselves or their life experiences and self worth with your judgement and damnation.

Its time bible bashers leave the judgement of humanity to god. You were not put on this earth to do his bidding but simply to live by it. Not everyone accepts that they won't receive a second chance. regardless of what will come in the afterlife you should as 'enlightened spiritualists' should accept that you too don't actually know the true answer as you are mearly human yourself.

Dispite all of this, it is true to say that these people stumbled upon your site, chose to read your material, there is nothing wrong with stating your beliefs if there are others who wish to seek solace in those with similar views. But this forum has not remained an objective and informative resource, but mearly a slang match between the 'goodies and the badies'. The opinions posted on this site for both sides are nothing but drivel from two prideful sides of the debate.

Taking part in such an act is reducing the creditibility of your religion's followers and as such, the religion itself. Both parties here have done nothing but try to defend their beliefs and to what end?

Religions don't need defending, they are what they are. Leave your defensiveness for when you really need it. When your life is actually in physical jeapordy.

[Maguru]

In response to accepting different beliefs, no I don't think it is so simple but a step in the right direction. You asked why and it is because there is no inner connection or emotional connection. Agreeing to disagree won't bring a solution but it will keep the peace.

Originally Posted by Max452

Here Here!

Well said ^_^

i must say i whole heartedly agree.

i suppose if all religions took out the bits that proclaim it is the only right way to 'god' there wouldn't be any of the problems that we see today with holy wars and such...

Hmm... its like that Men are from Mars Women are from Venus idology, if we just accepted that everyone sees things differently there would be no problem..

(in truth this is a rather simplistic way of seeing the situation... im not at all worried to hear that it is a nieve way to see the world but if you believe so i'd like to know why...)

[Matthew Shea]

Originally Posted by Max452

i suppose if all religions took out the bits that proclaim it is the only right way to 'god' there wouldn't be any of the problems that we see today with holy wars and such...

Agreed. That tends to be the nature of religion, though. Each one tends to say "OK, now WE have it all figured out. HERE's the true path to eternal happiness. Forget all that other stuff you've heard." After centuries and centuries of hearing that message, it's so deeply ingrained in people's heads that they begin to see people who vary from their belief system as an enemy. It's sad, really, but that's the way it tends to be.

Sometimes the fights are over stuff that seems trivial on the surface. I understand that the difference between Sunni and Shiite Muslims is only who was Mohammed's first successor, yet these guys are in Iraq attacking each others mosques and blowing one another up. I wonder what Mohammed would have to say about that.

Given the fact that religious divisions have existed for centuries and even millenia in some cases, the most realistic way to heal them is to have CONSTRUCTIVE debates and discussions. They need to be well structured and sponsored by the leadership of the religions involved. Progress will take a lot of time, maybe several more centuries, but it can be realized if people drop their pretenses and talk about the issues as they really stand and focus on whatever commonalities exist as a backdrop for dealing with the sticky issues.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

Agreed. That tends to be the nature of religion, though. Each one tends to say "OK, now WE have it all figured out. HERE's the true path to eternal happiness. Forget all that other stuff you've heard." After centuries and centuries of hearing that message, it's so deeply ingrained in people's heads that they begin to see people who vary from their belief system as an enemy. It's sad, really, but that's the way it tends to be.

True. And many people don't seem to have considered that if they were born somewhere else, they'd be likely to hold the opposite view to their current one, just as dogmatically as they currently do. Location can change people's beliefs as much as time.

[Max452]

Originally Posted by Maguru

Hi Max, have you tried the evoltion v. creation forum? What you describe below is exactly the same. Slanging matches between the 'goodies' and the 'baddies'. The amusing thing is they all think they are goodies. You'd think you were in parliament!

giggles* can't say that i have, i'm really new to this forum (as you can probably see by my number of posts) but its fantastic ^_^ i'm still immersing myself in all the past discussions of this sub-group not to mention all the others! I started reading some thread about 'I AM' consciousness and spent hours reading links and posts and all sorts of goodies! *drools* I've been looking like some thing like this for ages!

hmm.. thanks for the direction btw i'll be sure to check it out!
As for parliment... hmm.. yeah i think some religious types are as good as.. spewing lots of bs without really saying anything.. but then you can't really say that either can you?... that would be disagreeing with their beliefs.. hahahaha

[Max452]

Originally Posted by Maguru

In response to accepting different beliefs, no I don't think it is so simple but a step in the right direction. You asked why and it is because there is no inner connection or emotional connection. Agreeing to disagree won't bring a solution but it will keep the peace.

but in the end.. considering everyone seeks their spiritual enlightenment at different rates, isn't keeping the peace the best you can do.. especially when you consider the broad range of delusional egos that society has to tailor itself too to make everybody happy?

hell, i'd consider it a definite improvement in comparison to what we've seen of 'intelligent society' so far..

Holy wars... pfft.. what a load of crap..

[Max452]

*nods* very true.. u make alot of sense..

although *giggles* i couldn't help seeing a comical hypothetical from the below mentioned situation..

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

Given the fact that religious divisions have existed for centuries and even millenia in some cases, the most realistic way to heal them is to have CONSTRUCTIVE debates and discussions. They need to be well structured and sponsored by the leadership of the religions involved.

.. if i was honest with you .. and this gathering actually happened.. i imagine it would look something like a Jerry Springer episode.. hehehe

"you defaced my god you bless-ed sonofa $#^@!!!"
... "says the leader of a faith whose doctrine states that its god married his sister.."

.... ahem... sorry.. *stiffles a giggle*

you know... sadly, i think it actually benefits liberal society to have these conflicts.. having motive to cover your politcally clad a$s is always handy.. my, could you imagine the inconvienience of having a world united in peace? why, they'd be forcing us to become morally responsible next, heaven (should you believe in it!) forbid.... :P

[Matthew Shea]

Max, the online debate you mentioned in your OP sounds a lot like a Jerry Springer show. Here's the result of what I was talking about in my previous post, though. It's long reading, but it represents the coming back together of the Roman Catholic and Lutheran churches on one of the major issues that divided them centuries ago. The meat of it is in section 3. The Vatican in particular is a world leader in encouraging these type of discussions. My guess is that this will prove to be John Paul II's most lasting legacy. At least that's what I hope. These discussions should be supported and expanded worldwide and include every religion that wants to participate.