Suicide

[m18pak]

To all who read this, I'm asking for your help.

I have been depressed and miserable ever since I can remember. I know what it's like to have a mental breakdown. I have fallen to the deepest depths, and yet I know that there is still further to fall.

My core is pain.

I have tried to change. To bring about my self-destruction so that I could be reborn. I have read literally hundreds of books in the past year and months, on any subject related to change. I know about emotional control, context expansion, productivity, spirituality, mind power and more. I have tried so hard in every way to stop being me. I have tried.

But, I'm still stuck where I've always been.

If you don't know about the levels of consciousness, Steve's article on the topic is here: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...consciousness/

I'm still stuck firmly in Shame.

I still want to kill myself. What stopped me before was hatred. I hated the idea of being beaten by the world; I swore that I wouldn't be defeated.

And now, that hatred is gone, and with it all my will to keep living. I would do it too; I would take that final fatal step, except that I have come to believe in reincarnation, and I don't want to just be born again.

I am ashamed. I'm so ashamed. And I don't know how to change that. I don't know what to do now.

What do I do? How do I go up towards the light?

Do you know?

[openeyes]

check this site out

Suicide.org: Suicide Prevention, Suicide Awareness, Suicide Support - Suicide.org! Suicide.org! Suicide.org!

[Erin Pavlina]

Forgive yourself.

Help someone who is in a worse situation than you because it will immediately raise your level of consciousness.

Read this:
Erin Pavlina’s Blog » Blog Archive » The Spiritual Consequences of Suicide

Every morning you wake up find 5 things to be grateful for.

Feel blessed.

Remember you are never truly alone. Your spirit guides, angels, and higher self are with you. So is God/Source.

Remember you are loved.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Help someone who is in a worse situation than you because it will immediately raise your level of consciousness.

Dear Erin,

This statement is confusing me. You say helping someone in a worse situation will raise your level of consciousness...I remember when you told me I couldn't help my friend, who is in a worse situation than I am, because I was at the same or too low a level of consciousness.

I don't get it

[Alex2007]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

Dear Erin,

This statement is confusing me. You say helping someone in a worse situation will raise your level of consciousness...I remember when you told me I couldn't help my friend, who is in a worse situation than I am, because I was at the same or too low a level of consciousness.

I don't get it

It is different when you are involved emotionally with someone's problem. You can help someone without being emotionally attached with him, so you don't let his problem contaminate you.

ALex

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by Alex2007

It is different when you are involved emotionally with someone's problem. You can help someone without being emotionally attached with him, so you don't let his problem contaminate you.

ALex

Thanks!
___

[m18pak]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Forgive yourself.

Help someone who is in a worse situation than you because it will immediately raise your level of consciousness.

Read this:
Erin Pavlina’s Blog » Blog Archive » The Spiritual Consequences of Suicide

Every morning you wake up find 5 things to be grateful for.

Feel blessed.

Remember you are never truly alone. Your spirit guides, angels, and higher self are with you. So is God/Source.

Remember you are loved.

Erin, the rest of your advice was...uh...not really applicable to me. So I will just concentrate on number one.

I have tried to forgive myself. It is what I am doing now. It is one of the mental tools I use to keep my shame in check. I have tried so hard to forgive myself for everything. (And yes, I do know what true forgiveness is) But after a point the forgiveness simply stops working.

I think that if I forgive myself completely, then I might very well see no reason to go on living. My problem is that I DON'T KNOW how to look forward to life. I literally don't know.

Imagine that your life is a bank account, and everytime you felt pain or sadness you withdrew money, while everytime you felt pleasure or joy you deposited money. Well, right now the most I can even conceive of in my head is having a flat balance of zero. That is what I'm working so hard towards.

If I could just balance out my pain with my pleasure, then I would be fulfilled. That would be enough for me.

I spent my entire childhood in a state of near-perpetual fear. As such, my entire emotional system is structured around the avoidance of threats, which is why I feel so little emotion when it comes to anticipating positive things in the future. I’m just not motivated to do anything unless there’s fear involved. This is the way I have been conditioned. The idea of positive future outcomes resulting from my present actions is an alien concept to me. All I do now. I do in faith. Faith is what is sustaining me. I only know how to avoid bad. I do not know how to move towards good.

I have faith that there is better. But I can't really feel, know, or experience this better, so I can't really use it in that way.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by m18pak

I have tried so hard in every way to stop being me. I have tried.

I used to try to stop being me, too - and I found the key to change was complete self-acceptance. Acceptance of me in this moment, warts and all. At several points, severe depression and all. I'm finding I'm exactly who I'm supposed to be -- and I suspect the same is true of you, too!

I second Erin's suggestion to help out others, in any way you're drawn to. It will help "get you out of yourself". Take frequent walks in nature - at first, it might not feel like it makes a difference, but it will, just keep it up. I'm feeling it would help you to open your eyes and look around - it's like you've been facing inward such a long time, you forgot there's a whole world out here. Find five things that don't have anything to do with you to be grateful for -- flowers, a beautiful tree, a dog. Whatever you're drawn to, those are my things, your things might be *completely* different.

You are perfect just as you are, completely perfect. I promise this will pass.

Gassho ~

[Gbert]

I believe there is a lot to be said for the spiritual approach to these things, but given it hasn't worked for you thus far you may want to consider more medical science / psychiatry / psychology.

On this side of things some people believe depression and mental illness is not something you can think or feel your way out of. I'm not sure what i believe, but you may find some assistance for your problem with medication. Maybe something to help lighten the emotional load while you try other techniques to feel good.

Which reminds me. A book that was recommended to me by a therapist:
Feeling Good

The therapist and i didn't really connect, but the book is really good. I'm sure you can find some of the same information online, but the book is cheap enough that you can't go wrong.

There are so many ways and combinations of ways to approach your depression. Finding what speaks to you and what is effective for you is what's important. I feel a lot better these days and i'm not so sure how i got here.

[m18pak]

Originally Posted by Gbert

I believe there is a lot to be said for the spiritual approach to these things, but given it hasn't worked for you thus far you may want to consider more medical science / psychiatry / psychology.

On this side of things some people believe depression and mental illness is not something you can think or feel your way out of. I'm not sure what i believe, but you may find some assistance for your problem with medication. Maybe something to help lighten the emotional load while you try other techniques to feel good.

Which reminds me. A book that was recommended to me by a therapist:
Feeling Good

The therapist and i didn't really connect, but the book is really good. I'm sure you can find some of the same information online, but the book is cheap enough that you can't go wrong.

There are so many ways and combinations of ways to approach your depression. Finding what speaks to you and what is effective for you is what's important. I feel a lot better these days and i'm not so sure how i got here.

I don't need to feel good. I am not worried about whether I feel good or not. My happiness is something that, right now, is totally irrelevant to me. I can worry about that later. What I want to know is how to move up out of Shame into the level of Guilt, and then to the level of Apathy and so on and so forth.

[m18pak]

Originally Posted by carenkh

I used to try to stop being me, too - and I found the key to change was complete self-acceptance. Acceptance of me in this moment, warts and all. At several points, severe depression and all. I'm finding I'm exactly who I'm supposed to be -- and I suspect the same is true of you, too!

I second Erin's suggestion to help out others, in any way you're drawn to. It will help "get you out of yourself". Take frequent walks in nature - at first, it might not feel like it makes a difference, but it will, just keep it up. I'm feeling it would help you to open your eyes and look around - it's like you've been facing inward such a long time, you forgot there's a whole world out here. Find five things that don't have anything to do with you to be grateful for -- flowers, a beautiful tree, a dog. Whatever you're drawn to, those are my things, your things might be *completely* different.

You are perfect just as you are, completely perfect. I promise this will pass.

Gassho ~

Carenkh, I think I should have been clearer. I know and understand that the key to change is self-acceptance. I know that. I know God is to be found in the soul by subtraction, not addition.

What I meant was that I needed self-destruction, because for me, self-improvement would just be mental masturbation. For me, the stripping away of the rotten outer layers of bark to find the untouched heartwood center would necessitate the destruction of the whole tree. I am Shame. I am pain and misery and despair and unworthiness.

I know I am perfect. But I also know that this perfection is the real me. And what I am now is not. I am not trying to change myself out of shame, at least I don't think so, that is. I am simply trying to become who I feel I am. Inside.

You need to understand something very well, its not pain or misery or depression that's my problem. It's shame. I am not trapped in a self-conjured blackhole of despair. And even if I was, I wouldn't be too worried because I am used to that. My problem is the shame I feel that permeates my every fibre and pollutes my every breath. It is the shame that is causing my misery. I can handle pain. But I cannot stand shame. I cannot live with shame.

I am not a slave of fugue, with a heart in need of lightening. What I need is someway to raise my level of consciousness.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by m18pak

To all who read this, I'm asking for your help.

I have been depressed and miserable ever since I can remember. I know what it's like to have a mental breakdown. I have fallen to the deepest depths, and yet I know that there is still further to fall.

My core is pain.

I have tried to change. To bring about my self-destruction so that I could be reborn. I have read literally hundreds of books in the past year and months, on any subject related to change. I know about emotional control, context expansion, productivity, spirituality, mind power and more. I have tried so hard in every way to stop being me. I have tried.

But, I'm still stuck where I've always been.

If you don't know about the levels of consciousness, Steve's article on the topic is here: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...consciousness/

I'm still stuck firmly in Shame.

I still want to kill myself. What stopped me before was hatred. I hated the idea of being beaten by the world; I swore that I wouldn't be defeated.

And now, that hatred is gone, and with it all my will to keep living. I would do it too; I would take that final fatal step, except that I have come to believe in reincarnation, and I don't want to just be born again.

I am ashamed. I'm so ashamed. And I don't know how to change that. I don't know what to do now.

What do I do? How do I go up towards the light?

Do you know?

Have you ever tried seeking out a competant, skilled, hypnotherapist? Or maybe even just researched self-hypnosis? Hypnosis can be a valuable tool for discovering and overcoming attatchments to depressing mindsets. Works for me, in any case. I wish you luck in your pursuit of happiness.

[Life Warrior]

It is very difficult to believe in the greatness of life from where you are right now, but you must have the courage to persevere and believe that this pain you are in is but a stepping stone on your journey towards reconnecting with the whole and being in the state of joy. Look for beauty within you and outside and you will find it. Every situation is different, and you must find your inner light to guide you out of the darkness.

When I was on the brink of taking my life, I found the courage not to hurt my family and friends who loved me and relied on me. Later I discovered that I have the power to help others and to change their lives for the better, and I decided that the type of person who quits on their purpose is exactly the opposite of what I stand for and who I am. But again, you must feel this shift of consciousness for yourself, from your own perspective. You will find no easy answers here. You will find the greatest source of power, and equally large source of resistance all within yourself. The decision is yours whether and how to overcome your resistance.

There are "conventional" ways to temporarily solve your problem with SSRIs, but be careful with them, as they may leave you in a state of greater confusion. Professionals in that field will be of better advice if you choose to go that route.

Good luck, and never give up!

[bluskygirl]

I think you've already received some great advice. It takes a lot of courage to post and ask for help on this level... I applaud you.

Don't try to be a different person, or change who you are; focus on trying to be grateful for who you are. As hard as it may be to see anything through the shame, things are there! You can be grateful for the courage it took to reach out on the forum, or grateful for the eyes that you have that allow you to read and participate here. That's a start!

Best of luck.. you will be in my thoughts.

[m18pak]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

Have you ever tried seeking out a competant, skilled, hypnotherapist? Or maybe even just researched self-hypnosis? Hypnosis can be a valuable tool for discovering and overcoming attatchments to depressing mindsets. Works for me, in any case. I wish you luck in your pursuit of happiness.

No, I haven't, actually.

I will give that some thought.

Thank you.

[chris7246]

Hi there M18pack,
To some extent I can identify with what you are going through. I am going to write about what I have gone through.

At the age of 6, I was rushed to the hospital where two days later I would under go a brain tumor operation. The operation left me with some loss of sight. In addition to this, I also have seizures. they are under control for the most part.

In school, I was not allowed to participate in gym. The principal or whoever was in charge thought my head might cave in if I was hit by a ball. It was a difficult time for me all through school, but, I graduated from high school with a Regents Diploma. I have never driven a car. I can't. The loss of sight and seizures have seen to it.

Seizures know no boundaries, can discriminate at will, and are not bound by any laws. Once someone sees you have a seizures, that is all that it takes to be alienated you from the them and others. I have no friends, and have never had a girl friend.

I have gone on for many years like this. There isn't very much I can do about it. I just move on and do what I have to do each day. I am not going to loose any sleep over what others think of me or their opinions.

The reason I bring up all of this information is that our lives are what we make of it them. We can live in the past or we can plan our future. Some people are better off than we are and others are less fortunate and are worse off than we are.

I never miss church. God has been at my side all of these years. I work with the poor through our food pantry at my church. You get to see what life is like for those that are less fortunate. It gave me an appreciation what is like to be poor.

I am not a Psychologist, but, what I have gone through thus far it takes most people a life time to experience. Get out and do something. Anything that will take your mind off some of the things that bother you. I hope that this may give you some insight and realize that things aren't alway as bad as they might seem.

Chris

[m18pak]

Originally Posted by chris7246

Hi there M18pack,
To some extent I can identify with what you are going through. I am going to write about what I have gone through.

At the age of 6, I was rushed to the hospital where two days later I would under go a brain tumor operation. The operation left me with some loss of sight. In addition to this, I also have seizures. they are under control for the most part.

In school, I was not allowed to participate in gym. The principal or whoever was in charge thought my head might cave in if I was hit by a ball. It was a difficult time for me all through school, but, I graduated from high school with a Regents Diploma. I have never driven a car. I can't. The loss of sight and seizures have seen to it.

Seizures know no boundaries, can discriminate at will, and are not bound by any laws. Once someone sees you have a seizures, that is all that it takes to be alienated you from the them and others. I have no friends, and have never had a girl friend.

I have gone on for many years like this. There isn't very much I can do about it. I just move on and do what I have to do each day. I am not going to loose any sleep over what others think of me or their opinions.

The reason I bring up all of this information is that our lives are what we make of it them. We can live in the past or we can plan our future. Some people are better off than we are and others are less fortunate and are worse off than we are.

I never miss church. God has been at my side all of these years. I work with the poor through our food pantry at my church. You get to see what life is like for those that are less fortunate. It gave me an appreciation what is like to be poor.

I am not a Psychologist, but, what I have gone through thus far it takes most people a life time to experience. Get out and do something. Anything that will take your mind off some of the things that bother you. I hope that this may give you some insight and realize that things aren't alway as bad as they might seem.

Chris

Thank you for sharing that with me.

I appreciate it.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Originally Posted by chris7246

Hi there M18pack,
To some extent I can identify with what you are going through. I am going to write about what I have gone through.

At the age of 6, I was rushed to the hospital where two days later I would under go a brain tumor operation. The operation left me with some loss of sight. In addition to this, I also have seizures. they are under control for the most part.

In school, I was not allowed to participate in gym. The principal or whoever was in charge thought my head might cave in if I was hit by a ball. It was a difficult time for me all through school, but, I graduated from high school with a Regents Diploma. I have never driven a car. I can't. The loss of sight and seizures have seen to it.

Seizures know no boundaries, can discriminate at will, and are not bound by any laws. Once someone sees you have a seizures, that is all that it takes to be alienated you from the them and others. I have no friends, and have never had a girl friend.

I have gone on for many years like this. There isn't very much I can do about it. I just move on and do what I have to do each day. I am not going to loose any sleep over what others think of me or their opinions.

The reason I bring up all of this information is that our lives are what we make of it them. We can live in the past or we can plan our future. Some people are better off than we are and others are less fortunate and are worse off than we are.

I never miss church. God has been at my side all of these years. I work with the poor through our food pantry at my church. You get to see what life is like for those that are less fortunate. It gave me an appreciation what is like to be poor.

I am not a Psychologist, but, what I have gone through thus far it takes most people a life time to experience. Get out and do something. Anything that will take your mind off some of the things that bother you. I hope that this may give you some insight and realize that things aren't alway as bad as they might seem.

Chris

Hey, I am also a brain tumor (cancer) survivor. I had some eye damage as well, but at the age of 21, I got my driver's license. It was not easy and it is still difficult to drive, but I proved I could do it. I finally came to realize that part of me was limiting myself. I thought I would never be able to drive, but you know, it turned out okay. My mind might not work perfect and I may not do everything right the first time, but I am happy. I was out of commission for over a year, unable to do anything except lay there. I had radiation treatments, three major surgeries (one that had 64 stitches in the back of my head). No matter how bad things get, you can always emerge on top in the end. Since then, I've really embraced my spiritual side and learned that in order to deal with things like this, like considering suicide, we need to take on a more spiritual perspective. I have many people to thank for this. Steve Pavlina started me on this track and he is still a big influence. Just allow yourself to be, accept yourself for who you are. If you want to improve, go ahead. If not, you don't have to. Just accept yourself. There is nothing wrong with you. Move on from there.

[m18pak]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Hey, I am also a brain tumor (cancer) survivor. I had some eye damage as well, but at the age of 21, I got my driver's license. It was not easy and it is still difficult to drive, but I proved I could do it. I finally came to realize that part of me was limiting myself. I thought I would never be able to drive, but you know, it turned out okay. My mind might not work perfect and I may not do everything right the first time, but I am happy. I was out of commission for over a year, unable to do anything except lay there. I had radiation treatments, three major surgeries (one that had 64 stitches in the back of my head). No matter how bad things get, you can always emerge on top in the end. Since then, I've really embraced my spiritual side and learned that in order to deal with things like this, like considering suicide, we need to take on a more spiritual perspective. I have many people to thank for this. Steve Pavlina started me on this track and he is still a big influence. Just allow yourself to be, accept yourself for who you are. If you want to improve, go ahead. If not, you don't have to. Just accept yourself. There is nothing wrong with you. Move on from there.

An inspiring story, Andrew. Thank you for sharing that with us.

[Maguru]

I have been where you are and you must be feeling terrible reaching the depths of suicidal thoughts. I found an article titled 'Dark night of the Soul'. It explained what I was going through and helped me to accept this process of change. I do believe acceptance, rather than trying so hard makes it easier.
You may not see the changes in yourself but I can tell you one for sure, and that is your level of endurance is remarkable! Endurance is born from the painful experiences you are enduring in this period of your life. It isn't easy, my friend, but allow it and it will be the making of you.
See how resilient you are. See how strong you are. See how passionate you are. Know that you are sharing this experience with millions of others, many of whom will take their own lives as many have. You can become a leader out of this darkness through your own life experience.
Make no mistake. You are no wilting violet. You have no need of positive affirmations. The truth of you will do very nicely.

Originally Posted by m18pak

To all who read this, I'm asking for your help.

I have been depressed and miserable ever since I can remember. I know what it's like to have a mental breakdown. I have fallen to the deepest depths, and yet I know that there is still further to fall.

My core is pain.

I have tried to change. To bring about my self-destruction so that I could be reborn. I have read literally hundreds of books in the past year and months, on any subject related to change. I know about emotional control, context expansion, productivity, spirituality, mind power and more. I have tried so hard in every way to stop being me. I have tried.

But, I'm still stuck where I've always been.

If you don't know about the levels of consciousness, Steve's article on the topic is here: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...consciousness/

I'm still stuck firmly in Shame.

I still want to kill myself. What stopped me before was hatred. I hated the idea of being beaten by the world; I swore that I wouldn't be defeated.

And now, that hatred is gone, and with it all my will to keep living. I would do it too; I would take that final fatal step, except that I have come to believe in reincarnation, and I don't want to just be born again.

I am ashamed. I'm so ashamed. And I don't know how to change that. I don't know what to do now.

What do I do? How do I go up towards the light?

Do you know?

[m18pak]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I have been where you are and you must be feeling terrible reaching the depths of suicidal thoughts. I found an article titled 'Dark night of the Soul'. It explained what I was going through and helped me to accept this process of change. I do believe acceptance, rather than trying so hard makes it easier.
You may not see the changes in yourself but I can tell you one for sure, and that is your level of endurance is remarkable! Endurance is born from the painful experiences you are enduring in this period of your life. It isn't easy, my friend, but allow it and it will be the making of you.
See how resilient you are. See how strong you are. See how passionate you are. Know that you are sharing this experience with millions of others, many of whom will take their own lives as many have. You can become a leader out of this darkness through your own life experience.
Make no mistake. You are no wilting violet. You have no need of positive affirmations. The truth of you will do very nicely.

Thank you.

[m18pak]

First off, let me thank you all.

You have all been great.

However, I think I need to clarify my dilemma further, as while the advice I received was well-intended, it was also very much irrelevant to my situation; however, that was my fault - I didn't explain it well enough.

Firstly, I am not a typically depressed, stuck-in-misery, woe-is-me, I-just-want-to-die, crying-for-no-reason, helplessly pathetic, miserable, lethargic lump, hiding from the light of day underneath my blanket.

I am not really depressed in the way you guys are thinking of. I am not a normal person, and as such my situation is different.

I am not asking for help on dealing with my depression. I am asking for help on dealing with my shame.

The depression that occurs sometimes is but a symptom, a mere inconvenience compared to the real problem.

I am not worried about feeling miserable and alone. I really don't care. Jagged shards of melancholy have sliced my heart through and through. I ain't worried about that.

So without further ado, I shall present my case for your analysis.

I am intelligent, and this has been my saving grace. So far.

You see, while I am stuck in shame, the Context in my head is very much not that of a ashamed, suicidal person. I have read so many books telling of so many different paradigms, and you could say that I've extracted the distilled essence of all the wisdom I found in them straight into my head, via jacking in, if you will.

I mean, I have read just about all the articles on this website. I have read literally hundreds of books on this. All in the past year. I mean, I would not be surprised if I had a bigger database of factual knowledge on self-improvement in my head than Steve himself. Or the others I have encountered through the internet like Steve. I KNOW logically all I need to know. I have control of my thoughts. The problem is that there is a huge gulf between what I know in my head and what I feel in my body.

When I feel sad, I can control it and get rid of it very quickly. It's no more than an annoyance. I have mastered my mind, and as such, my emotions.

I have not, however, managed to go up a level of consciousness.

You know how little kids are scared of the bogeyman? Well, no matter how muh you explain to them that there is nothing there, they will still be sacred. They feel it. I am the same way. I am like an adult scare of the bogeyman. I KNOW there's nothing there. I can control my fear by making use of the sophisticated thought-processes I've devised to counter the raw emotional energy, but that's all I can do. Control it. I don't know how to get rid of it. I don't know how to advance up a level.

In case you don't know, beliefs are basically energised thoughts. When you think a thought and attach an emotion to the thought, then you create a belief. And because it has become a belief, then it will elicit said emotion or feeling in the future. This is why simply using logic to contradict a belief generally does not work, as you must also remove the underlying emotional energy of the belief. Without doing so, the energy of the belief will be nearly impossible to overcome with cold rational argument. This is my problem. My underlying emotional state is shame. I feel it constantly. You can call it my level of consciousness or whatever, but its what I feel.

I am fine for most of the time. But when the seething pressure erupts through, I literally want to cover my face and scream at the top of my lungs. I want to rip out my eyes or smash my head into a bloody pulp against the wall. Something. Anything. Anything to make it go away. At such times words literally burst out of my mouth. It's almost like OCD. At those moments in time, the energy overwhelms me.

I have tried using emotion manipulation tools before (EFT, NLP, Doyletics, Sedona, BBSF etc...) on individual beliefs? Maybe I should try it on my overall state? But I don't know how I would go about that...

So basically, I need to know how to go up a level of consciousness. I don't need to feel better about myself: my problem is not as simplistic as that. I am already up and running. My CPU is working fine. Only the integrity of my circuits have been compromised.

I have gone up the levels before. Arriving at Fear was a particularly overwhelming experience for me. One moment I was heavily depressed. The next it was like an explosion had occured inside my head and I had been turned inside out and then put back together again. (Incidentally, it was a book that triggered such a dramatic shift)

The highest I ever went was Courage. It was so beautiful. It lasted only for a minute. But its memory stayed with me, like a dream of satin sheets and silky caresses and half-remembered passions, and upon awakening the scents, the feelings, and the sensations seems to linger for just a moment longer, teasingly, hanging phantom-like in the air, and you wish your dream had never ended.

But then, something happened, and I fell again. So close to the sun of my arrogance, my wings caught fire and were as ash, and so I fell. So I was punished for my hubris.

But anyway, what do I do? How do I consciously climb up the levels of consciousness? Is there a way?

[Life Warrior]

Maybe you should stop reading all the books and look within yourself instead. What is making you feel ashamed of yourself? What happened in your past that has conditioned you to feel ashamed and guilty for who you are?

[carenkh]

Even after reading more, my thoughts are the same... I see you as looking inward, into darkness, when all you need to do is look up and out, in the sunlight. An expression keeps coming to me - and pardon me - but - Pull your head out of your ass. Take some walks. Reach *outward*. I think the *last* thing you need to do is look inward right now. Stop thinking about yourself. Don't have a thought about "levels".

I'm sorry, I know I don't know you, I'm not inside your body, but this is what's coming to me. I've learned to trust that voice, so I'm writing it out. Just try it, stop thinking of why it wouldn't work.

And - if none of what I say applies to you - just discard it. I mean no offense.

Gassho ~

[Matthew Shea]

But anyway, what do I do?

Remember that we all love you and want to see you succeed. You've already made a positive difference in this world by bringing out the good in all the people here who've tried their best to help. Focus on that. Focus on the good you'll continue to do when you overcome this unfortunate state. Finally, remember that you bear no responsibility for anything that may have happened to you to trigger such feelings. People will often play upon feelings of shame and guilt to manipulate you into complying with their will. If you reject that manipulation, you reject the shame and guilt that goes along with it. Learn to trust your instincts and do what YOU know is right.

I sincerely hope this helps and wish you the best!

[Budhabee]

I too, like Life Warrior, wonder what brought all this shame on. Is it parental related? By the way you express yourself beautifully. Ever thought of becoming a writer. You need something to occupy your mind and quickly. Something you care deeply about. But still curious. Is it parental related?

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by m18pak

But then, something happened, and I fell again. So close to the sun of my arrogance, my wings caught fire and were as ash, and so I fell. So I was punished for my hubris.
But anyway, what do I do? How do I consciously climb up the levels of consciousness? Is there a way?

You are obviously very well read (Icarus analogy), articulate and aware. Given that, you must also know that you have the ability to control your thoughts and attitude. It will take some effort and hard work on your part but you must have the willingness first. There are no easy answers. If you really work at it you can get over your shame. You must have done something you consider to be very awful if you feel such shame. If it's not illegal, immoral or unethical it can't be that shameful.

[Alex2007]

The majot problem here is ...GUILT.

Guilt is something that everybody can experience when we are attached to the past and we think about it over and over again !

You need to understand that there is an obsession with you to think about the past. You are a normal person. Everybody has done something at some extent that when we think about it we get a sense of guilt. The difference is that we can control our thought away from the "guilty" thought and not associate it with guilt whereas you obsessively stick on it for certain reasons.

Overanalizing about the Past, distorts your Present and your Future in a negative way and it doesn't teach you anything.

You need to realise that even if you did things you feel guilty for, you shouldn't think of them. Accept the feeling of guilt as it is, this is what is, a real feeling, but stop thinking. You already got a lesson from that behaviour through a mechanism that is beyond your control Thinking and overanalizing about it will not teach you any lesson. Overanalizing about your past actions or thoughts, will not help you be the "nice", "moral" person you want to be. It will just add a burden in your life and believe it or not, overanaylizing about your past predisposes yourself to act in such a way in the PRESENT so that you feel guilty about it in the future. Overanalysing doesn't help.
Overanalizing about the Past, distorts your Present and your Future in a negative way and it doesn't teach you anything. It feels your mind with unnecessary thoughts that don't contribute to the real purpose of your life.

It would be good if you talk to someone about your past and the things that make you feel guilty openly as they come to your mind.


Alex

[Terumoto]

Originally Posted by m18pak

First off, let me thank you all.

You have all been great.

However, I think I need to clarify my dilemma further, as while the advice I received was well-intended, it was also very much irrelevant to my situation; however, that was my fault - I didn't explain it well enough.

Firstly, I am not a typically depressed, stuck-in-misery, woe-is-me, I-just-want-to-die, crying-for-no-reason, helplessly pathetic, miserable, lethargic lump, hiding from the light of day underneath my blanket.

I am not really depressed in the way you guys are thinking of. I am not a normal person, and as such my situation is different.

I am not asking for help on dealing with my depression. I am asking for help on dealing with my shame.

The depression that occurs sometimes is but a symptom, a mere inconvenience compared to the real problem.

I am not worried about feeling miserable and alone. I really don't care. Jagged shards of melancholy have sliced my heart through and through. I ain't worried about that.

So without further ado, I shall present my case for your analysis.

I am intelligent, and this has been my saving grace. So far.

You see, while I am stuck in shame, the Context in my head is very much not that of a ashamed, suicidal person. I have read so many books telling of so many different paradigms, and you could say that I've extracted the distilled essence of all the wisdom I found in them straight into my head, via jacking in, if you will.

I mean, I have read just about all the articles on this website. I have read literally hundreds of books on this. All in the past year. I mean, I would not be surprised if I had a bigger database of factual knowledge on self-improvement in my head than Steve himself. Or the others I have encountered through the internet like Steve. I KNOW logically all I need to know. I have control of my thoughts. The problem is that there is a huge gulf between what I know in my head and what I feel in my body.

When I feel sad, I can control it and get rid of it very quickly. It's no more than an annoyance. I have mastered my mind, and as such, my emotions.

I have not, however, managed to go up a level of consciousness.

You know how little kids are scared of the bogeyman? Well, no matter how muh you explain to them that there is nothing there, they will still be sacred. They feel it. I am the same way. I am like an adult scare of the bogeyman. I KNOW there's nothing there. I can control my fear by making use of the sophisticated thought-processes I've devised to counter the raw emotional energy, but that's all I can do. Control it. I don't know how to get rid of it. I don't know how to advance up a level.

In case you don't know, beliefs are basically energised thoughts. When you think a thought and attach an emotion to the thought, then you create a belief. And because it has become a belief, then it will elicit said emotion or feeling in the future. This is why simply using logic to contradict a belief generally does not work, as you must also remove the underlying emotional energy of the belief. Without doing so, the energy of the belief will be nearly impossible to overcome with cold rational argument. This is my problem. My underlying emotional state is shame. I feel it constantly. You can call it my level of consciousness or whatever, but its what I feel.

I am fine for most of the time. But when the seething pressure erupts through, I literally want to cover my face and scream at the top of my lungs. I want to rip out my eyes or smash my head into a bloody pulp against the wall. Something. Anything. Anything to make it go away. At such times words literally burst out of my mouth. It's almost like OCD. At those moments in time, the energy overwhelms me.

I have tried using emotion manipulation tools before (EFT, NLP, Doyletics, Sedona, BBSF etc...) on individual beliefs? Maybe I should try it on my overall state? But I don't know how I would go about that...

So basically, I need to know how to go up a level of consciousness. I don't need to feel better about myself: my problem is not as simplistic as that. I am already up and running. My CPU is working fine. Only the integrity of my circuits have been compromised.

I have gone up the levels before. Arriving at Fear was a particularly overwhelming experience for me. One moment I was heavily depressed. The next it was like an explosion had occured inside my head and I had been turned inside out and then put back together again. (Incidentally, it was a book that triggered such a dramatic shift)

The highest I ever went was Courage. It was so beautiful. It lasted only for a minute. But its memory stayed with me, like a dream of satin sheets and silky caresses and half-remembered passions, and upon awakening the scents, the feelings, and the sensations seems to linger for just a moment longer, teasingly, hanging phantom-like in the air, and you wish your dream had never ended.

But then, something happened, and I fell again. So close to the sun of my arrogance, my wings caught fire and were as ash, and so I fell. So I was punished for my hubris.

But anyway, what do I do? How do I consciously climb up the levels of consciousness? Is there a way?

I am really sorry, but I think my reply is going to come across as blunt. I apologize in advance. I trust your personality, and I think you are stable enough to handle blunt words from some fool without killing yourself. Consider what I say, but don't consider it the absolute truth.

First of all, you can't "extract the essence of wisdom" from books. You can read the words of somebody who had wisdom, but words are terrible. It is impossible to convey even the simplest things accurately with words, let alone insights about the self and the universe. I think one of your major problems may just be that you think you know a lot. It's limiting. Yeah, maybe you know a lot, maybe you are a great writer, but there is an infinite amount of knowledge out there that you don't know or even know of.

You can read hundreds of books, you can know a lot of things, but it won't help you. You need to see. You need to have clear vision. I am no expert, and I don't know you, but from what I've read it seems like you are utterly blind. Completely in the dark. What are you doing? You're hypocritical. You have complete control over your emotions? Is that right? You've mastered your mind? You are lost because you honestly believe things like that to be true. You haven't mastered anything, and you need to realize that. A master of mind doesn't wrestle with bouts of depression, or need to search for the next level of consciousness, and he certainly doesn't need to post on forums asking for advice about controlling his mind.

You said your underlying mental state is shame. Well, I would be very interested to know, why do you make your mental state a state of shame? It seems to upset you, it baffles me as to why you would think that way. Your self isn't separate from your brain or mind. Who exactly is running the show in your mind? Seriously, take a look around in there. Kind of empty... There's only you. Whether you see it or not, you are the only one that can create shame in yourself. Asking us to get rid of your shame won't work. Reading books won't work. Searching for a higher state of consciousness won't work.

What you are doing is running away. You are smart, though. You have cleverly disguised your avoidance of the problem to look like an attempt to tackle the problem. You're so smart, you managed to trick yourself! Well, stop running. You are not a shameful person, shame is not innate in you. You are a person clinging to shame and all you have to do is let go. Which, unfortunately, is harder than it sounds. It is hard, but simple: See the truth and your suffering will disappear.

Remember when I said you were lost? Lost in the dark? You can't see the universe around you, so reading books won't help; you won't even see what the author is talking about. That's why nothing has been working for you. Use courage, create it and shed light on yourself. Penetrate into the depths of your own mind, and see the truth about your feelings. It's hard... It's devastating. It's also beautiful and invigorating, to be free from the shackles of your old self.

How do you consciously climb up the levels of consciousness? You talk about it as if it's a game. You're egotistical and you want to be better than everyone else (It's OK, I am like that too, don't take it personally). Games are awesome, they're very fun, but taking them too seriously spoils the idea of a game. How to go up a level? I don't think that's what you really want to know. Going up a level will do nothing for you. You don't realize it, but you are on a very high level. You are far more intelligent and developed than a lot of people.

So let me ask you, what is a person like you doing playing silly games? Get rid of your notion of being on a higher level of consciousness. Give up on it, and you'll be free from a game that causes nothing but suffering. Is there any higher level than that?

[m18pak]

When you say that I am running away, are you referring to the fact that I have compartmentalized myself?

Do you mean that my mind, emotions, and consciousness are one?