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| Spirituality, Consciousness, & Awareness Spirituality, beliefs, the nature of reality, consciousness, awareness, metaphysics, truth, philosophy, religion |
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08-12-2007, 08:33 PM
| #1 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,811
 |  LoA… a New Age Religion… or an empirical observation…???
“Your thoughts and feelings tend to attract what will happen to you…” is an empirical observation… it has been observed throughout the ages… it is quite well accepted and for some, it sums up the definition and scope of LoA… For others… LoA is much more complex… it has a deity formed of money, health, love and power which is worshiped and revered… It also has dogmatic rules and principles… effects and consequences… it is a source of countless theories and amazing new discoveries… each promising amazing results… or dire consequences… So, what is LoA... a New Age Religion… or an empirical observation…??? What are your thoughts and opinions in this matter…??? . |
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08-12-2007, 09:12 PM
| #2 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Darkness / The Never
Posts: 1,673
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I think some people consider it a religion, simply as a way to get away from reality, when in actual reality its not so fantastical, yeah the LoA works, but No its not a Neon-God who provides everything to you if you only just ask...
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08-12-2007, 11:29 PM
| #4 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,090
| Quote:
I also think that this is a very complex process that we can only know in limited degrees. Some people take it too much to heart at the expense of reason and logic. Instead of taking action and responsibility and working on themselves, they expect it to be the answer to all their problems. As humans we have many capabilities and resources (critical thinking, applied logic and action) at our disposal. To expect something to appear in our lives just because we want it without any other effort on our part is very unreasonable. No wonder so many end up disillusioned. Also, just because we want something doesn't mean it's the best thing for us. Maybe we have lessons to learn. Maybe it doesn't serve our highest good. All the observing, wanting and creating mean nothing if they don't help us reach higher levels of understanding and awareness. Last edited by ZHereford; 08-12-2007 at 11:31 PM. | |
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08-12-2007, 11:36 PM
| #5 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,811
| Quote:
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08-12-2007, 11:50 PM
| #6 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio
Posts: 376
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Yup I agree too. LOA is just a tool which we can use to achieve material goals. In the secret and in some of the books about LOA, its mentioned as if this law explains everything about life, universe and truth. I disagree. |
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08-13-2007, 12:17 AM
| #9 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,090
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08-13-2007, 01:12 AM
| #11 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,613
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Heheh. I'll be provocative today. Let's suppose for the sake of discussion LOA is a religion. Why would this be a bad thing, please? Please do a quick check & comparison with Christianity ... Hinduism ... Islam .... Buddhism .... Jainism .... Sikhism ... Taoism .... Bahai .... ancestral aboriginal worship .... And tell me why would it be a bad thing if LOA is a religion? Of course, if your basic premise is that religions are bad because they're all inherently false and what people all around the world should do is "take massive action" on a personal level ...... well then, yeah, it follows that LOA, like Christianity, Buddhism etc would be a bad thing. But in that case, I would say that LOA is a rather minor sort of bad thing. Since after all the number of people who actively use LOA in the world must be much smaller than the number of active Christians in the world, or active Hindus, or active Muslims, or active Buddhists .... etc. |
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08-13-2007, 01:29 AM
| #12 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,613
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08-13-2007, 01:52 AM
| #14 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 410
| The Secret is bunk
The reason LOA isn't working for millions of people who are trying it is because it is not a law and goes against the true law of the Universe, which is the law of give and take. Life is about what you GIVE and contribute. This is why we go to college and learn because we will be more productive and GIVING to society. This is why people in the ghetto are dying of murder or drugs. It's not that they are not thinking the right thoughts. They are takers. They wake up being takers and go to bed at night being takers. The universe doesn't provide for them because they are not providing for the universe. This is why socialist countries end up failing because they by their very nature go against the law of give and take. People who are more GIVERS are being punished thus giving them less resources to hire and continue to give. In turn they take the givers money and give it to the takers, but the takers don't do anything with the money except consume more drugs and use it for self destroying their lives and teaching them an invalid lesson. The old Soviet Union failed miserably and where China is successful today I can point out the capitalistic nature of the point that helps make them successful (i.e. Hong Kong). North Korea sits in darkness to preserve energy because the have a thug of a taker as their leader. So my question to you is are you a giver or a taker? You can turn this thing around today by becoming a giver (reads Steve's articles on light and darkworker - concentrate more on the lightworker side). Join a local church. Start living your dream, weather the Universe provides YET or not. Eventually you will reap great things. This whole Secret stuff is bunk. It copied its ideas from old books like Think and Grow Rich. The one thing Think and Grow Rich taught us is that we must go The Extra Mile - doing more than what you are paid to do. Essentially, give! |
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08-13-2007, 02:22 AM
| #18 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Inside the Container
Posts: 1,543
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The LoA, IM, CM are always on, always working. People incorrectly think they can use these methods only when they want money or love, but if you have no money and/or no love, then you used the methods to manifest that. Every thought has power, every thought is creation and you don't ever stop thinking, so you're always creating. They're not magic powers.......they're god powers. You can't become god, you've always been god...........but a better word that doesn't impy religion is......consciousness. You are always consciousness......before, during and after your human bean experience. Max |
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08-13-2007, 02:35 AM
| #19 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,811
| Quote:
And, now, you guys want to start another one... . | |
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08-13-2007, 02:47 AM
| #20 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,061
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I don't think the LoA is itself dogmatic. The most common definition is a little less specific than what you quoted above, namely, "you attract into your life whatever you think about." Beyond that there are differing ideas of what attraction means, what thinking means, and how the two interact. Dogmatism creeps in only when people start insisting that only their ideas are correct. Likewise the LoA itself is not a religion. It doesn't involve worship of any kind which is all that's necessary to disqualify it. But people may form a religion around it if, for example, they consider it a law imposed by a universal consciousness, and consider that universal consciousness to be worthy of worship. But I don't think that's the case with that particular belief. It is an empirical observation in that the effects of the law can be observed through experience or experimentation. But that observation is influenced by subjective biases, as are all observations, so empirical observation alone isn't enough to validate the law. Ultimately I see the LoA as a very vague description of how thoughts and feelings influence what happens in life. And as a very vague description, it's ability to guide someone's life is also vague. How and why we try to clarify it is where we run into trouble. | |
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08-13-2007, 03:42 AM
| #21 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,811
| Quote:
I’m reading where anytime something happens in someone’s life… it had to have been manifested specifically… this is getting crazy… LoA works and it is fantastic when used in its proper perspective… the trouble start when fanatical implications are attached to it… . | |
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08-13-2007, 04:01 AM
| #22 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,613
| Quote:
Other religions, misapplied, lead their followers to burn women at the stakes; launch terrorist attacks; start wars; persecute non-believers etc etc. LOA, misapplied, at worst leads its most fanatical followers to laze around on their sofas all day, daydreaming about their goals, and thinking positive thoughts. And maybe overspend on books and DVDs. Quite harmless, in the overall scheme of things. | |
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08-13-2007, 04:18 AM
| #23 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,811
| Quote:
I agree with you that, even as a "religion" LoA could never be as bad as what we have seen with organized religions... just as condilomas and herpes are not as bad as AIDS... but I would not recommend them either...  . | |
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08-14-2007, 12:35 AM
| #24 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Inside the Container
Posts: 1,543
| Quote:
Your concerns should be directed to the mods and/or Steve, they set the tone for this public forum and when you have a public forum.......you end up with all the different versions of the public. I don't think anyone is against the LoA and IM, but others (myself included) are looking for deeper, simplier meaning..........you can't blame people for wanting to understand better and you can't expect people to follow just one version of the truth. Inspect, accept, reject. Max | |
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08-14-2007, 01:32 AM
| #25 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,811
| Quote:
These hypothesis, conjectures and suppositions are presented as facts... which they are not by a country mile... You want to help people...??? You want to spread the good word...??? Then, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth... And, as of today... the only thing that we can be relatively certain of is the fact that, "Your thoughts and feelings tend to attract what happens in your life..." I cannot speak for Steve or the MODs... but, I don't think that they have any desire to censure any opinion since doing so would completely destroy the purpose of this site... which is a place to express opinions and hopefully to exchange and learn from each others... which means... that if I don't agree with you or anyone else... my duty is not to run crying to anyone... but to say publicly why, where and and how I think that some opinions digress... . | |
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08-14-2007, 02:32 AM
| #27 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 357
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So, apparently the Law is still a secret to most, even those who believe in it. Most people seem to be looking for a magic show. The secret is that the Universe is made up of laws, and operates on these laws. In ancient times ancient wisdom/science attempted to explain what is going on, with many parables, and examples in an attempt to discribe these laws to the common man. All these expamples, and parables were passed down, and evolved into the fairy tales, and stories all over the world, completely nisunderstood by the common person, and very often used by unscupulous types to play, and prey on the ignorance of others. God, was the term used to make reference to "ALL THAT IS". It was the term given to the entirety of all mechanisms operating connectedly. And it is all alive. It is life itself, and all it's workings. God is not SUPER-NATURAL, as many of the religions profess, in their attempts to discribe something greater than our individual selves. God is as natural as are we. God is everywhere, in and over, and through all things. ENERGY/LIFE-FORCE/HOLY SPIRIT. It is all good, and meant for good. The individual operating against the law, ANY law, is naturally going to cook it's own goose, just like sticking your hand in a light socket, whether or not you are a grown person, who should know better, and does the stupid deed, anyway, or your an innocent child not aware of the law, or you are a bad/evil person, or a good, and kind person. Your goose is cooked. It's reffered to as a law, because of it's fixed operation. Ity's very definate properties, and results. It's science, it's physics, it's quantum physics, it's mathmatical, and all that spiffy stuff. Science is not trying to disprove God. It's really excited about HOW IT ALL OPERATES. I have no real qualms about religion, per se, but religion has had thousands of years to explain God, and it's workings, and wonderfully mysterious ways. Modern science has had only hundreds by comparison, and it's been an up hill battle all the way, with much misunderstanding, many goofs, and many outright accusations from many, who stand to loose it's grip on the minds of ignorant mankind, should science succeed. And it is succeeding, every step along the way. So, I really have nothing to learn from most modern religions. Religion wants to complain the whole way about what science is, or does, or does not do, or what it says, or thinks, etc...But "HEY, RELIGION", you've had thousands of years to explain, and you've failed miserably, so give science a chance/break. Sure scientists have made many goofs, and science has been used for many bad things, but religion has made as many goofs, and more, and has done many, many bad things too. Because of the secret, and the idea of the Law of Attraction, I have seen this thing referred to as God. This living God. The scales have fallen from my eyes. When once I was blind/ignorant, I now see/understand. I know how the Tower of Babel fell. I know how Jesus walked on water. I know how Jesus turned water into wine. I know What the ancient spiritual journey really was, and what ones spiritual guide was, and what part that guide played in ones spiritual journey. I know what the early churches and temples really were, and what they did to fool the people, with their tricks, using technology that the ignorant masses knew nothing about. Jesus was telling the truth, when he spoke the words, "The truth, will set you free". He wasn't referring to freedom from sin/missing the mark, unless missing the mark, was a way of saying, "Your missing the point". Jesus was freeing them from ignorance, which was very severe, and they were being taken great advatage of by the leaders of that day. They were living miserable lives, held captive to their fears, and beliefs, and the lies the lies that had been perpetrated against them for thousands of years. Now, once a person drops all their childish understanding of how things work, grows up, into the real world of adulthood, and grown up ways, with clear thinking, and clarity of mind, and real useful, and beneficial knowledge instead of attempting to fit God, and Law of attraction, and all the laws of the Universe, into some hocus-pocus previous belief system, then that person will be able to see clearly what his/her part in all this means, and how they fit into the grand scheme of things. They will be free to live a real life. |
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08-14-2007, 02:45 AM
| #28 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,811
| Quote:
However since LoA is dogmatic... it is closer to religion than it is to science... . | |
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08-14-2007, 03:00 AM
| #29 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 586
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 Just wanted to add a few thoughts to the thread. The main use of LoA is through the practical application of it, and seeing the results in your life. It is not about hypothetical fantasies, "what ifs", belief systems, proselytizing others, or even intellectual curiosity. Sure, that's all entertaining, but in the end, what do you really get out of it? So as a religion, LoA would not fare too well I'd say  At least, its effectiveness would be highly diluted. Unfortunately, it seems like this is how the trend is moving towards. But that's ok, I think it's only the natural course of events as more and more people become aware of LoA and the spiritual domain. All the "newcomers" have to learn to overcome their own spiritual naivete, and other people can't really help you with it or tell you all the answers. The grey hairs of wisdom must be earned with one's own experience I think many people overrate the whole concept of LoA, thinking that it will solve all your problems in life and make you completely happy and fulfilled. Without placing LoA in the proper spiritual context, it tends to become overplayed to the point of fanaticism. LoA is just one tool in our spiritual toolbox, and in fact, you don't even really need to use it; it uses you Flow with life and life automatically supplies what you really need. I'm skeptical about "using" LoA to attract certain outcomes; how do you really know that it's in your highest good? I'd rather just work on my own inner issues, and the outer world automatically reflects the changes you've made.
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08-14-2007, 03:09 AM
| #30 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,613
| Quote:
Harmless. There are many worse ways to live your life. Just check out all the many directionless people in life who have never heard of "Law of Attraction" OR "taking massive action". | |
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