Any Christians Here?

[IBelieveInGod]

Hi all,

I'm new here. Just wondering if there's any Christians here

[Zach]

Yup..count me in.

[DmitryDavydov]

How about ex-Christians?

[javierga]

@DmitryDavydov: 11:11... Curious, was just reading about that in last post...

Any Christians Here?

[Wanderer]

Im a member of that very exclusive club
1 in 2,000,000,000 (I think thats two billion)
I feel so unique and loved

[The David]

Ex-Christian.

You'll probably find people of alot of different religious backgrounds here.

[ChrisC]

Raised Catholic.
Switched to Jehovah's Witness for 14 years
Migrated to other non-trinitarian Christian groups (Dawn Bible Students, Free Bible Students, etc. - all with the same roots as the Jehovah's Witnesses)
But now I embrace all forms of spirituality, with focus on meditation and other Kriya yoga practices.

[PhoenixOwl]

I'm ex-Christian.

[Josip]

One more christian here

[yasi_joy]

im thinkin about it,,i believe all religion are true and they all lead to source,,i beieve each person depending on her/his personal qualities can choose any of these path, no religion is better than other
havin said that i myself find chrisiianity more suitable to my life style

[Michael Chui]

Raised Christian. Baptized Anglican, trained Baptist, argued down my pastors, read their books, rejected church for its hypocrisy, publicly classified as "agnostic" or "other".

Still consider myself a Christian, but in fairly heavy disagreement with just about anyone else who's even vaguely conformist about it.

[tertius]

Christian here! And I don't think that's gonna change soon.

One of the few things that keeps me going!

[ditto]

Christian here too (Lutheran).

Michael Chui (and any other ex-Christians), I'm curious, what problems did you have with Christianity?

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by IBelieveInGod

Hi all,

I'm new here. Just wondering if there's any Christians here

Christian: No. Follower of Jesus Christ: Absolutely.

[ChrisC]

ditto,
My current beliefs have more in common with Gnostic-oriented Christianity. The Gospel of Thomas portrays a Jesus whose thinking is more consistent with Hindu philosophy. What works for me is a path to God that focuses on the internal experience, where God is found within as well as everywhere, rather than an external concept of an individualized God. "Split a log, and I am there", Jesus states in the Gospel of Thomas.

Of course, my reasons are more complicated, but this is a good summary.

[MindReality]

I am a pure Christian. Used to be fundamental baptist, now I'm non denominational.

[Michael Chui]

Please do not take the below as an attack. I would hope that anyone who frequents these forums would agree with me in spirit, if not in letter, or at least hear me out first. The question was asked, so I thought it was a good time to write it out.

Originally Posted by ditto

Michael Chui (and any other ex-Christians), I'm curious, what problems did you have with Christianity?

I got tired of Christians who couldn't quote any line but John 3:16. Who could do nothing but socialize. Whose knowledge of the Bible they professed to scour for truth consisted of the ability to read the concordance, context be damned. (Anti-gay activists quoting Leviticus, I'm looking at you.) Who never actually gave any thought to what it was they professed to believe in. These are principally descriptions of my fellow church-goers, once upon a time, but they also include many of the more public figures who call themselves Christians.

To be honest, I still consider myself a Christian, whereas they are not. But there was no way I would be able to detach the label from them, so the best alternative was to detach it from myself; and since my personality is very lone wolf anyways, it cost me little to nothing.

The other problem I had with Christians was their intolerance of logic. I spent a lot of time, when I was younger, arguing for creationism against people who knew more than I did. I knew when my argument was lost. I knew that, while I was not refuted, I could not refute them, so their theory had as much validity for we, the laymen of biology, as creationism. For a lot of Christians, they're not willing to question the nature of God or explore the possibility that parts of their doctrine could in fact be wrong. I cannot stand this, because it stands in the way of the search for truth. Again, this does not apply to all of them, but too many.

I would rather consider myself a "sect of one" than associate myself with such people. I felt actively inhibited by the affiliation, so I discarded it as unncessary.

So, I'm not sure I'd say I was an ex-Christian so much as an enlightened Christian; the foundation of my philosophy is verses 16-18, in the 4th chapter of First John. How many people read that? How many people could recite First Corinthians, Chapter 13, from memory? I could. (NIV, since that's what we used. I haven't bothered to continue exploring the Bible, because the notion that a book, even one with tremendous accuracy in integrity, is valid by divine fiat first demands an exploration into the nature of God. People argue that you can come to know God by seeing him in the natural world, quoting a nicely famous line from Psalms. So that's what I do. Nothing in the natural world has suggested I read the Bible yet. )

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

The other problem I had with Christians was their intolerance of logic. I spent a lot of time, when I was younger, arguing for creationism against people who knew more than I did. I knew when my argument was lost. I knew that, while I was not refuted, I could not refute them, so their theory had as much validity for we, the laymen of biology, as creationism. For a lot of Christians, they're not willing to question the nature of God or explore the possibility that parts of their doctrine could in fact be wrong. I cannot stand this, because it stands in the way of the search for truth. Again, this does not apply to all of them, but too many.

You hit the nail on the head. I grew up in church as well, being told to question everything I was told--except for what was said in church. The problem is, when you question everything, you eventually get around to questioning your beliefs. When I started to examine the christianity that's tought in mainstream church, and compare it up against reality, it fell short.

Now, I believe in the Bible. However, when people make careers out of teaching people from it, there's going to be some distortion, because the message will eventually be changed to benefit the people teaching it in some way. Extrapolate that out over 2000 years (and more), and you get things like pork-barrel politics, but in religion. Huge institutions, people making careers out of the religion, and messages that have at least some bearing on personal power and finances. This is a terrible bastardization of what it was originally supposed to be.

When I read the Bible with my new perspectives and beliefs about how reality works, it comes alive for me. I didn't have any interest in the Bible for about 15 years--I was sitting on a set of beliefs that I didn't REALLY believe in, so I had no use for the Bible. I knew what it said already. However, about a year ago I started questioning EVERYTHING. It's very alive and relevant to me now, and although they won't teach you in church the Bible talks very directly about things like intention and manifestation. Unless you already know about such things though, it just sounds like some weird old gibberish and poetry.

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

I would rather consider myself a "sect of one" than associate myself with such people. I felt actively inhibited by the affiliation, so I discarded it as unncessary.

I prefer to call myself a follower of Jesus Christ

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by jdiddy

I prefer to call myself a follower of Jesus Christ

I tried that for a while, too. The problem is that most people don't know anything about Jesus except that he died on the cross and resurrected. Oh, and he healed people, talked a lot, and walked around Israel.

Permit me to throw in some points of consideration.

Following Jesus is different from following Paul. Do you make that distinction? Most people do not; it's very difficult to see it, but it's there. How about Constantine's interpretation? The original Christians, of Peter, and those theoretically of Magdalena, are a bit extinct. Since you read the Bible... I ask: do you read the apocryphal Bible, or accept the Nicean Creed? Are you aware that the Dead Sea Scrolls include the Book of Enoch, which is commonly referenced in occult works? Do you know what the criteria were for the canonization of the Bible, or what the differences between the Catholic and Protestant Bibles?

That's a set of more difficult questions than even the Herculean task of questioning the content, context, and juxtaposition of the canon Bible at face value. Note that I'm not making a judgment with these questions, except that most Christians would not think to even ask them. A full set of answers may very well result in the exact faith any professed Christian speaks with today. But the questions need to be asked.

[Minstrel]

I am a Christian.

I believe in an absolute truth and reality. This means that everything I read on this website is and will be filtered through the grid of my worldview. Some things that Mr. Pavilina recommends I consider to be sin.

That said, I have learned much as a result of reading this website. I am grateful. But remember Isaiah chapter nine. Look to God for guidance first and last. Not to unbelievers. This is written primarily to other Christians on the board. Please be careful.

Minstrel

[MindReality]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

For a lot of Christians, they're not willing to question the nature of God or explore the possibility that parts of their doctrine could in fact be wrong. I cannot stand this, because it stands in the way of the search for truth. Again, this does not apply to all of them, but too many.

That is so true indeed! It is the devil who has kept many Christians in ignorance because he does not want us to know the secret knowledge of the universe. Ignorance is what keeps him in power over us. For if we knew what he knows, he would be facing a force that is much harder to triffle with.

Looks like we belong to the same sect. I wrote a book about such things called Spiritual Mysteries Revealed. It's very important for people of all religions to read. Especially even for Christians because it seems that people of other religions know more about God than us. It is available at my website.

[ahimel]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

(Anti-gay activists quoting Leviticus, I'm looking at you.)

Unless you also demonstrate against lobsters and are willing to stone your daughter if she has sex before marriage. Then I have to give you credit for consistancy.

How many people could recite First Corinthians, Chapter 13, from memory?

"Faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is love."

Isn't it?

People argue that you can come to know God by seeing him in the natural world, quoting a nicely famous line from Psalms. So that's what I do. Nothing in the natural world has suggested I read the Bible yet. )

I don't ever see big signs that say, "READ THE BIBLE!" But I have found that, as a personal development book, the bible often reinforces or points out lessons to be learned in the real world.

In answer to the original post question, I believe that Christ existed, I believe in the things that He taught, and I believe that He was(is) divine.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by ahimel

Unless you also demonstrate against lobsters and are willing to stone your daughter if she has sex before marriage. Then I have to give you credit for consistancy.

To this effect, I was shown this strip a few months ago: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1...q060811dn9.gif

Originally Posted by ahimel

"Faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is love."

Isn't it?

That's most of the 13th verse, yes. =P The entirety is here: BibleGateway.com: 1 Corinthians 13 (NIV). BibleGateway also has a large number of translations, which is nice for comparing them.

Originally Posted by ahimel

But I have found that, as a personal development book, the bible often reinforces or points out lessons to be learned in the real world.

It does, I agree, and I recommend that everyone should read the Bible. If nothing else, there are some wonderful stories in there, and Paul is a superb writer.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Minstrel

I am a Christian.

I believe in an absolute truth and reality. This means that everything I read on this website is and will be filtered through the grid of my worldview. Some things that Mr. Pavilina recommends I consider to be sin.

That said, I have learned much as a result of reading this website. I am grateful. But remember Isaiah chapter nine. Look to God for guidance first and last. Not to unbelievers. This is written primarily to other Christians on the board. Please be careful.

Minstrel

It seems like the only reason you believe some of Steve's writing to be sinful is because Christianity is what you learned first. The Bible says, "Listen to God, what he says is true and what this book says is true." Okay, fine. Then Steve comes and says, "subjective reality rocks, etc, etc." The Bible tells you that this is sinful, so you don't attempt to believe in it. That's completely understandable... but don't you think you're robbing yourself of a wonderful opportunity? What if you had found Steve's website before you'd even heard of the gospel? I'd think your worldview would be a lot different.

I would encourage you to look carefully at every idea you come across, consider its truth, and reintegrate all your "pieces" together, instead of trying to fit it into what you already "know" and disregarding anything that "doesn't make sense".

By the way, I grew up as a Christian and I still consider myself to be one. And yes, I believe in (at least the plausibility of) subjective reality. Chew on that.

Originally Posted by jdiddy

... the Bible talks very directly about things like intention and manifestation. Unless you already know about such things though, it just sounds like some weird old gibberish and poetry.

Really? I'm very interested. Can you give me some example passages?

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Scott

Really? I'm very interested. Can you give me some example passages?

Tsk, Scott. It's famous!

NIV Bible - Matthew 17:20
He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

That's the easy one. I'm curious about what jdiddy will reference, too.

[ScottLee]

I am ex-Christian, and have, for the past several years, switched to Religious Science.

I, too, am a fan of subjective reality.

[Richful]

Non-Christian here. What I am I choose not to define.
I was in Christian religious education classes for my first 3 school years, then got switched to Catholic classes. Apparently someone made a clerical error when I enrolled originally, oops I didn't take it seriously after that, found science and thought for myself.

That is so true indeed! It is the devil who has kept many Christians in ignorance because he does not want us to know the secret knowledge of the universe. Ignorance is what keeps him in power over us. For if we knew what he knows, he would be facing a force that is much harder to triffle with.

Please don't take the following as attacks but sincere questions, not sure how to create tone in posting yet:
Just what is the devil to you? A being of absolute evil who wants power over humanity now and in the after-life? If anything, in the context you use here I see that devil as inertia. What does the devil know?

It's very easy to blame something else for our shortcomings. People keep each other ignorant all the time, is the devil the source of their manipulation and self-interest? Not IMO, humans can mess things up very well themselves.
Have you considered that god does not want humans to know the secret knowledge of the universe yet? It takes people time to integrate new levels of conciousness and understanding into there being, too much too soon can cause damage.

[peter]

I too am a Christian... but like some other members, I do not belong to any denomination anymore. I used to be a Catholic till last year.

I left the Catholic Church after reading Tolstoy's book "The Kingdom of God is within you"
This book opened my eyes and I could see my very own faith in a new light. It looked more lovely, more beautiful and more truthful than anything I've heard in church.

Here is a small quote from chapter 4:

Life, according to the Christian religion, is a progress toward the divine perfection. No one condition, according to this doctrine, can be higher or lower than another. Every condition, according to this doctrine, is only a particular stage, of no consequence in itself, on the way toward unattainable perfection, and therefore in itself it does not imply a greater or lesser degree of life. Increase of life, according to this, consists in nothing but the quickening of the progress toward perfection. And therefore the progress toward perfection of the publican Zaccheus, of the woman that was a sinner, and of the robber on the cross, implies a higher degree of life than the stagnant righteousness of the Pharisee. And therefore for this religion there cannot be rules which it is obligatory to obey. The man who is at a lower level but is moving onward toward perfection is living a more moral, a better life, is more fully carrying out Christ's teaching, than the man on a much higher level of morality who is not moving onward toward perfection.

You could say that the Christian religion *IS* the religion of Personal Development.

[nyxalpha]

im a christian!!

[MindReality]

Originally Posted by Richful

Please don't take the following as attacks but sincere questions, not sure how to create tone in posting yet:

Just what is the devil to you? A being of absolute evil who wants power over humanity now and in the after-life? If anything, in the context you use here I see that devil as inertia. What does the devil know?

It's very easy to blame something else for our shortcomings. People keep each other ignorant all the time, is the devil the source of their manipulation and self-interest? Not IMO, humans can mess things up very well themselves.
Have you considered that god does not want humans to know the secret knowledge of the universe yet? It takes people time to integrate new levels of conciousness and understanding into there being, too much too soon can cause damage.

The Devil is the great deceiver in the world. As Christians, we cannot blame the Devil for our shortcommings because we are responsible for the choices we make in our lives. But the Devil is a real hyperdimensional being that seeks to steal, kill and destroy that which belongs to God.

Have you ever wondered why the secret knowledge of the universe can be found in various other religions but yet seem so ellusive when it comes to Christianity? The truth is that the Devil has kept one half of the knowledge away from the Church while the other half of the knowledge is kept in the Church. That is why we Christians have got to raise our level of consciousness in order to be ready to learn what we have been deceived to believe as "satanic" when it really isn't so.

Read The Universal and Personal Aspect of God » Secrets of Mind and Reality

As for the idea of how the bible talks about Objective Reality, but Steve Pavlina talks about Subjective Reality therefore it must be sin...

The truth is, both Objective and Subjective Reality exist. Here's an article about Objective and Subjective Reality. May it clarify everyone's understanding of it once and for all.

Do your Beliefs Reflect Reality or Create It? » Secrets of Mind and Reality