Any Christians Here?

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by mindreality

As for the idea of how the bible talks about Objective Reality, but Steve Pavlina talks about Subjective Reality therefore it must be sin...

The truth is, both Objective and Subjective Reality exist.

The amusing thing (at least I find it amusing, but then, I find a great many things amusing) is that most "Christians" I know would completely discount the notion of subjective reality, even though, based on my understanding of the bible and other religious texts, from what context the bible actually speaks from, it seems to be completely dependant on individual interpretation (although I’m sure some people would argue that, and I’m also pretty sure whoever wrote the bible was also speaking from the context of a particular belief system – one that extended past Christianity and encompassed the whole of reality as well, since the bible seems to be quite relevant to all people, and not just Christians).

With that said, I admit to having little knowledge of the subject in question (interpretation of the bible and what context it is written from), nor do I label myself as a "Christian", so please, those more knowledgeable then I, do correct me if I am wrong. I am merely speaking from my general experiences with those who call themselves "Christians" and from what Steve has said in his blog post, Understanding Jesus, Buddha, and Other Mystics. Based on the two, it would seem that the bible is very much open to interpretation, and thus, it would be quite possible for an individual to read the bible and act completely different to another individual who has also read the bible based on their different interpretation.

And if it is indeed the case, it does make me wonder why those who do follow some sort of religious teachings are not willing to question their beliefs. I’m sure many would claim that doing such a thing would be questioning their religion, but I would argue that the religion itself is not in question at all – it is the individual who is in question, and their particular beliefs about reality and how they interpret it. And with that, I've probably provided myself with an answer (probably not a universally applicable answer, but an answer none the less) - it is because when you start asking such questions and truly considering their implications, responsibility comes crashing down, and can be a scary thing, and as most value their survival, avoiding what you fear is something they consider to be a good option, even if they are not completely aware of the process itself (for most, I’m sure it’s a subconscious process).

It's amazing how fast those nasty assumptions can creep in when you are dealing with beliefs, and if you're not careful, you may find yourself not following the teachings of the bible or Christianity at all, but some sort of adaptation of the two that was an invention of your interpretation and assumptions. For those reasons, when it comes to beliefs, I always find it good fun to raise the question of “What if you’re wrong?”. Some people are pretty good at answering it, some are not, but I find it works especially well when you use it on yourself. Give it a try and find out!

[Richful]

Originally Posted by mindreality

Read The Universal and Personal Aspect of God » Secrets of Mind and Reality
Do your Beliefs Reflect Reality or Create It? » Secrets of Mind and Reality

mindreality: Interesting articles, I particularly liked the integration of subjective and objective reality, basically reflects my understanding of universal law. I'm curious what your sources are for this material. Is it your own mental machinations and do your claims come from an experimental/experiential point of view? You've obviously done your research on magic, theosophy, mental science, etc. very well written.

Originally Posted by mindreality

But the Devil is a real hyperdimensional being that seeks to steal, kill and destroy that which belongs to God.

Existence of the devil is obviously a fundamental belief of yours, what is it based on, faith in the bible or personal experience of nasty hyperdimensional entities?

"Blaspheme, Blaspheyou, Blasphe everyone in the room..."
-- Eddie Izzard

[MindReality]

My sources are from various religious teachings as well as metaphysical science and the bible. Most important of all, it is through thinking and direct inspiration from God. A part of it is also definitely due to experiential knowing.

Have you ever wondered or realized that no other religion talks about the Devil or Satan as a real being? You cannot find such a reference in any other religion or esoteric teachings at all!

The ONLY place that talks about the Devil as a real being that opposes the work of God is the Bible.

WHY IS THAT SO?

In all the esoteric teachings, it seems that only the concept of God is presented but the Devil or Satan does not seem to exist. Where did he go? Well, he simply became the God. Hence there is no Devil, there is only God. Lucifer is God.

Lucifer wants as little people as possible to think about the Devil or Satan, and to think only about God. Like a master magician, he has staged a disappearing act. Even when you find writings about fallen angels, you will see just about every other name except the name Lucifer being mentioned. It’s almost like he doesn’t exist. Well as the saying goes, out of sight, out of mind.

End of Days - The Great Falling Away » Secrets of Mind and Reality

Many of the things I write about, even most Christians do not have the awareness about. This things go beyond just blind faith in the bible. Because purely relying on faith without understanding and thinking can cause one to easily lose his faith when his thinking is being led away from truth.

[Richful]

Originally Posted by mindreality

My sources are from various religious teachings as well as metaphysical science and the bible. Most important of all, it is through thinking and direct inspiration from God. A part of it is also definitely due to experiential knowing.

What do you mean by direct inspiration from god? Inspired thoughts, feelings, visions? Is experiential knowing conceptual knowledge, emotional knowledge or gnosis perhaps? How do you know they're inspired by god? I am a skeptic, but I have been wrong many times before. If it's something you "just know" I understand to a degree.

Originally Posted by mindreality

Have you ever wondered or realized that no other religion talks about the Devil or Satan as a real being? You cannot find such a reference in any other religion or esoteric teachings at all!

The ONLY place that talks about the Devil as a real being that opposes the work of God is the Bible.

There are many religions where there is war in heaven/olympus/valhalla over whose running the show. In many religions around the world creative gods are also destructive, it's a part of the cycle of life. For anything to transform it must die to the old to be born to the new. A carpenter must kill a tree to create a table. Every time science advances we must let our old ideas die so the new can flourish.

It's possible that the devil only directly opposes god in christianity because they got it wrong Duality in monotheism is confusing... i like your ideas, I'll keep reading your blog. I think I'm getting too off topic thou...

[MindReality]

Like what you said, inspiration and experential knowing take place though Inspired thoughts, feelings, visions, conceptual knowledge, emotional knowledge and gnosis....

The same process is at work for all kinds of inspired knowledge from spiritual sources. But the Big Question you ask is "HOW DO I KNOW IT IS OF GOD?"

Exactly! One of the ways by which spiritual powers communicate with us is through inspiration. Therefore not every form of inspiration is truly from God.

Evil spiritual entities can create artificial inspiration to lead people into error.

How do I know when something is inspired by God? Well I know it when my heart is truly at peace, and that the message does not contradict the Core Doctrines of the Word of God.

Well I suppose my last statement is something that cannot be refuted because it is really a matter of Choice. That is what makes a Christian a Christian. It is by choice to believe that the Word of God is True.

Have I ever stepped out of the boundary of believing what is true in the bible before? YES. I went away for awhile to explore other possibilities. But of course I still retained my salvation because salvation once received can never be lost. Well that's another theological subject which I would find it irrelevant to discuss about here.

But eventually I came back into believing the fundamental truth once again. WHY? Because I choose to. Because "I KNOW" it is the truth. That's it. Certain things you can only be conviced about when the Holy Spirit guides you into realizing it.

In the end, the concept of "I am right or you are wrong" is unecessary, because:

1Corintians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Faith is all a matter of choice to believe whether What Is Written is true or not. Take two contradictory truths and hold each of them in your mind for awhile. Then decide for yourself which one truly gives you the peace that passes understanding in your heart.

[peter]

Originally Posted by mindreality

Faith is all a matter of choice to believe whether What Is Written is true or not.

I believe in human error... and therefor I cannot base my faith on following blindly something written by men. Various books might claim to be the Word of God... but the scribe was human... the translator was human...

So I read and I learn... I let the beautiful words found in these books inspire me... not dictate my life.

Believing in something might involve a Leap of Faith but make sure you take the right kind of leap.