Proof of Consciousness

[Max Power]

Are you a human being with a spirit inside? Are you a spirit with a human being inside? What is consciousness and how can we prove it exists?

Well I suppose we can't prove anything but let's have some fun trying

When you sleep there seems to be no connection to your physical body, you have dreams and you're in them and sometimes you're not in them, but you are always the dreamer. When you're awake, like right now, look around you, what do you see? An office, your computer, you can hear birds and a plane, the radio and the clock ticking.

All these things are in your awareness, so they exist, but what about things outside your awareness? Does the man sitting in a chair at an outside cafe in France drinking coffee exist? How do you know? The only way to know for sure is to go there and use your senses to make him and the environment real in your awareness.

Does anything exsit if you're not there to observe and sense it? What about people? When someone is in your awareness, it's real and tangibale, but what happens when that person leaves you and goes to work or goes away? Do they cease to exist? What about the 6 billion people out there in the world? What about the world itself, the stars and planets?

Consciousness must be something, it must be somewhere, so if you're in your own awareness 24/7 and nothing and no one else can be there 24/7 then you must be consciousness, but consciousness isn't just your body, it's everything in your present moment awareness, it's the noise, the light, the chair, the coffee and the person (the observer, your physical body)all of it, consciousness.

So consciousness is a sort of container with everything inside including you to observe the container/consciousness.

Well, it's not really proof, but it was fun right? How can considering all this help us? If nothing exists outside of your consciousness, if you are all there is (including your human body) then you must be creating not only what happens, but what is inside the container/consciousness.

So if we follow this line of thought, then you must be choosing what goes in, stays in and leaves the container/consciousness. Nothing is happening to you, you are making everything happen and then observing it through your human physical being and importantly as you observe it, it's created.

Observation must be creation inside the container/consciousness. So to create something new inside, we just have to observe it, because if what's in there right now is real, then somehow we started to observe it and it became real. You made some money, you got a new job, a new love, there's things didn't pop into creation, you observed them and they were created.

What is consciousness? It's your awareness, everything in it, including an observer, your physical body to observe consciousness, to observe creation and importantly as you observe it, you create it, observation is creation.

Where is consciousness? Look to your present moment awareness, there it is, right there and importantly it's no where else. You may think that you get up and leave and go somewhere else, but I consider that's part of the perception of growth and time. Consciousness/container doesn't move or change, things inside change and seem to move, that's the illusion or the perception and you (consciousness) observe and create change, movement and growth.

Proof? Not really, Interesting? I think so

Max

[Lallymac]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Are you a human being with a spirit inside? Are you a spirit with a human being inside? What is consciousness and how can we prove it exists?

Well I suppose we can't prove anything but let's have some fun trying

When you sleep there seems to be no connection to your physical body, you have dreams and you're in them and sometimes you're not in them, but you are always the dreamer. When you're awake, like right now, look around you, what do you see? An office, your computer, you can hear birds and a plane, the radio and the clock ticking.

All these things are in your awareness, so they exist, but what about things outside your awareness? Does the man sitting in a chair at an outside cafe in France drinking coffee exist? How do you know? The only way to know for sure is to go there and use your senses to make him and the environment real in your awareness.

Does anything exsit if you're not there to observe and sense it? What about people? When someone is in your awareness, it's real and tangible, but what happens when that person leaves you and goes to work or goes away? Do they cease to exist? What about the 6 billion people out there in the world? What about the world itself, the stars and planets?

Consciousness must be something, it must be somewhere, so if you're in your own awareness 24/7 and nothing and no one else can be there 24/7 then you must be consciousness, but consciousness isn't just your body, it's everything in your present moment awareness, it's the noise, the light, the chair, the coffee and the person (the observer, your physical body)all of it, consciousness.

So consciousness is a sort of container with everything inside including you to observe the container/consciousness.

Well, it's not really proof, but it was fun right? How can considering all this help us? If nothing exists outside of your consciousness, if you are all there is (including your human body) then you must be creating not only what happens, but what is inside the container/consciousness.

So if we follow this line of thought, then you must be choosing what goes in, stays in and leaves the container/consciousness. Nothing is happening to you, you are making everything happen and then observing it through your human physical being and importantly as you observe it, it's created.

Observation must be creation inside the container/consciousness. So to create something new inside, we just have to observe it, because if what's in there right now is real, then somehow we started to observe it and it became real. You made some money, you got a new job, a new love, there's things didn't pop into creation, you observed them and they were created.

What is consciousness? It's your awareness, everything in it, including an observer, your physical body to observe consciousness, to observe creation and importantly as you observe it, you create it, observation is creation.

Where is consciousness? Look to your present moment awareness, there it is, right there and importantly it's no where else. You may think that you get up and leave and go somewhere else, but I consider that's part of the perception of growth and time. Consciousness/container doesn't move or change, things inside change and seem to move, that's the illusion or the perception and you (consciousness) observe and create change, movement and growth.

Proof? Not really, Interesting? I think so

Max

If you lovingly set your mind free, it will gently return you to the constant source of origin.
Lallymac

[Freelancer]

So if thats true I'm doing you a HUGE favor by being aware of you, how are you gonna repay me?

[Maguru]

I really think you are on to something big, Max Power. I can also see that we are the creators and the observers of our whole life experiences. That through observation we recreate and observe again. That the cycle is a work in progress. The next step for me is in becoming familiar with the observer, as the observer is also creating at the moment of observation.
Who is this observer? Where is this observer coming from? What is the relationship between the observer and the life experiences? How does the observer affect the observed? I'm working on it!

[JoeBlogs]

An interesting read. Though personally these things always fall down for me when you get to this point....

If nothing exists outside of your consciousness, if you are all there is (including your human body) then you must be creating not only what happens, but what is inside the container/consciousness.

I don't see any reason to think that. To me it is logical to think that things do still exist when I'm not there (not conscious of them) and not being able to *prove* that to be the case doesn't really matter, in the end there are two options, either the French guy in the coffee shop (that you mentioned) exists when I'm not conscious of him, or he doesn't. To me the logical and most likely explanation is that he does, therefore being unable to prove or disprove it means that I just go with the most obvious option. He does.

[Maguru]

Hi Joeblogs, I think the "nothing exists outside your consciousness', really means in the present moment of your existence. E.G. the French guy is only in your imagination at this point. He is not in your presence or experience. Therefore, he only exists in your consciouness and having him there is a waste of your mind resources.
You did not exist in my consciousness before today but here you are now expanding my consciousness through mind connection. Great isn't it? Thankyou.

[Atma]

you must be consciousness, but consciousness isn't just your body, it's everything in your present moment awareness, it's the noise, the light, the chair, the coffee and the person (the observer, your physical body)all of it, consciousness.
So consciousness is a sort of container with everything inside including you to observe the container/consciousness.

Indeed,the same/similar thing will also say the advanced scientists (quantum mehanics,superstring theory,unified field theory).It just confirms (it's not yet proven) the teachings of ancient and modern seers.You can also hear scientists describing matter (which is just frozen energy) at sub-atomic level as completley immaterial,and the "material" universe as a giant thought. So it's again in line with spiritual teachings which teach that universe(s) and all creatures in them are a dream of God.Consciousness is basis of all material phenomena,while both are energy vibrating at different level and emanating frome one source.Everything that exists has the same base,so also good and evil are just more or less perfect expressions of energy of the one infinite Dreamer,dreaming infinite worlds.

[moviestar]

Yes you are on it saying it is a container. The funniest thing is that the so called observer is also inside the container.

[Anagogy]

A container implies a limitation -- a boundary of some kind that circumscribes a piece of Existence. Based on my experiences, I'm not so sure one exists in an absolute sense. We are the ones who create container/limitations, because we are the ones who dream they exist. When we stop dreaming, we will realize that we are unbound, and always have been.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Maguru

I really think you are on to something big, Max Power. I can also see that we are the creators and the observers of our whole life experiences. That through observation we recreate and observe again. That the cycle is a work in progress. The next step for me is in becoming familiar with the observer, as the observer is also creating at the moment of observation.
Who is this observer? Where is this observer coming from? What is the relationship between the observer and the life experiences? How does the observer affect the observed? I'm working on it!

MG,

It's a terminology issue. The observer is consciousness, the human body/mind/avatar is the observation point and consciousness can't escape the observation point, of course that's a choice though.

So the observer is you watching your creation through an observation point, the human bean you observe through

Where we need to apply this is in a practical way.............

The moment is all we have, so that is the moment of creation, so as we observe it, we're creating it in the moment. So why doesn't everything you choose randomly just manifest into reality?

Because you are always observing the moment you're getting, you may think you're observing a new moment, but you are actually observing the same moment. It just feeds back into itself and creates the same thing again.

Okay so let's say you observe a million dollars in your account, why doesn't it appear?? Because you're tricking yourself. You tell yourslef you're observing the million dollars, but in truth, you're not, your just observing the lack of a million dollars.

Same with love and everything else.


Max

[Maguru]

Ah, Max, I think we have crossed wires. I couldn't figure out what you were talking about. I am referring to the observer of self not observer of things. I can only do it this way although I do understand where you are coming from but don't quite see it like you do.
I see the observer as being within the consciousness along with awareness and everything else (your container) but not the same thing at all. To me the consciousness is the sum of all parts, but we cannot be aware of all the parts simultaneously.
I also believe we are creating all the time from the whole consciousness whether or not we are aware. It appears to have been created in the moment but in fact, it is the moment of 'awareness' of the creation, not the actual moment of creation. When the mind is focussed on the moment then that is truly all you have. When the mind is fully focussed in the moment then creation is possible in the moment.
However, having said that, I believe the mind only conjures up possibilities. If these possibilities are not based in reality of who you are, then they will hardly manifest.

[moviestar]

he human bean you observe through

What's a human bean? Some kind of mutatant must be