Richard Dawkins and his uncanny similarity to religious fundamentalists.

[elai]

I don't know any better way to communicate this, so pardon if it seems unclear. But where does Dawkins get all of his passionate "resolve" for all of this? Whenever I read some article or interview or something similar from Dawkins I get this unique feeling of revulsion that I only get when I'm listening to a religious fanatic preacher or other similar fundamentalist. Two very different camps, yet two very similar mental styles. There are many many utter absolutes in Dawkins speech and I wonder why he has decided to adopt the tactics of a social style that he really, really loathes. Why is Dawkins a militant atheist, despite the general trend of a lack of militarism and truth above all that attracted people to atheistic thought in the first place?

[DaveTyler]

Maybe because he speaks the truth and got tons of evidence to back it up and is sick of the world bein ruled by brainwashing:P

[jsot]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Maybe because he speaks the truth and got tons of evidence to back it up and is sick of the world bein ruled by brainwashing:P

Yep, sounds a like a religious fundamentalist.

[Maguru]

I relate to your feelings of revulsion but mine are sparked by many authors. The bible has invoked the biggest reaction in me, so much so that I do not possess one any longer.
I really think you cannot see the truth through someone elses perspective. I believe the uncomfortable feelings are our way of eliminating others truth that does not sit well with our own. We are all individuals and probably a complex mix of everyone else, so it is hardly likely to fully agree with another.
However, on the god delusion, it is my experience that it may not be god that is the illusion but our perception of god that is the illusion. I'm not religious and don't belong to any isms but I have studied life from many angles, and the god question is always there.
One thing Dawkins says is that 'we need to believe in a god worthy of being worshipped by all' and at the moment the god who is to be obeyed does not fit into that category. Dawkins is coming from his personal perspectives on life and who cares what he thinks?

[DaveTyler]

Originally Posted by jsot

Yep, sounds a like a religious fundamentalist.

How can you diss Richard Dawkins Number 1 world wide atheist and religious killer, then make a post "HOW TO COME OUT AS AN ATHEIST"
Ill excuse you since your age...

[jsot]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

How can you diss Richard Dawkins Number 1 world wide atheist and religious killer, then make a post "HOW TO COME OUT AS AN ATHEIST"

He tends to exaggerate the evils of religion by focusing on the worst cases, such as Christian fundamentalism or Islamic extremism. He is also too aggressive in his stance which hurts the atheist image. He does to atheism what Pat Robertson does to Christianity.

Just because we agree when it comes to religion doesn't mean I have to be 100% supportive of everything he does and says.

[JeremyW]

I disagree with you. I think Dawkins differs from religious fundamentalists as he can back up his beliefs as opposed to fundamentalists who can only give evasive answers. I reccomend that everyone who reads this thread read The God Delusion as it is a wonderful book.

[Keith]

My guess is he got sick of having to explain the same basic scientific facts over and over to religious fundamentalists only to get back "Yeh, but evolution's just a theory!" and the like.

I once read an article warning scientists about getting into debates with creationists over evolution. What tends to happen is this:

1. Creationist raises point that would take over an hour to answer properly (eg. "The eye is too complex to have evolved naturally!").
2. Scientist starts to answer it, but partway through...
3. Go to #1. Repeat.

The end result is that people walk away with the impression that the scientist couldn't really answer the questions that the creationist raised, whereas they could - just not in that format of debate.

Similarly, Dawkins probably got sick of his field being critiqued by people with minimal scientific background and decided to go on the offence for once.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Maybe because he speaks the truth and got tons of evidence to back it up and is sick of the world bein ruled by brainwashing:P

The world is ruled by 'brainwashing'. We are all self 'brainwashed' by our beliefs. For instance one culture honestly believes that worms are delicious, a valuable delicasy. Another culture honestly believes that exactly the same worm is inedible, horrendous and enough to make you throw up.

[DaveTyler]

Ofcourse as humans we'll always have subjective PERCEPTION of objective REALITY. No doubt about it, and subliminal advertising, TV series, movies, books etc influence that.
That makes us unique and individual though.
Religion/God etc is pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ or as George Carlin said it "HOLYSHIT".
Its making 50% of the world DELUSIONAL
It amazes me so many atheis on here believe in LoA/SR etc. as its the same crap.... Glad I found out.

Jsot yeah he is "harsh", thats entirely true but it's cause atheist are SICK of being surpressed and **** by christian faith.
Like teaching intelligent design as a SCIENCE in schools WHATTHE****.
Isn't messing with a kids head from birth about HELL harsh? its childabuse...
Religious fanatics are not fit to be parents.

Tring to argue christians normally is impossible, you need to slap them in their faces. Hello this people believe the world was created in 6 days:|

The irony is that religious people look at us atheist as antichrists with no morals because we have no God, wheras the fact is that THEY are the craz ****ers who need a God to judge them otherwise they'd be serial killers.
Cuz as the say "with no God there is no morals or logic".

[Maguru]

Does it matter if there is a god or not? Surely the global human problem does not originate with a belief in a god? Many problems occur because of differing beliefs in a god but god in and of itself is not the problem.
It is 2007 and time we all grew up. It is time to take responsibility for ourselves and stop passing the buck on to god. It is time to understand that each of us collectively are creating our life experiences, and the world in which we experience our lives.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Tring to argue christians normally is impossible, you need to slap them in their faces. Hello this people believe the world was created in 6 days:|

Yeh, but then, I know people that believe a cloud magically appeared out of no where, and that it somehow just exploded, and that all the bits accidently came together to eventually form people and computers.

I think that it is anyone's right to think whatever they like, as long as they aren't harming anyone else.

[DaveTyler]

Sorry but I only find one word to describe that last reply RETARDED...
A LOT can appen in BILLIONS of years... atleast STUDY evolution beore trying to argue against it

[Jenny]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Sorry but I only find one word to describe that last reply RETARDED...
A LOT can appen in BILLIONS of years... atleast STUDY evolution beore trying to argue against it

Are you kidding... This is how you choose to respond to a genuine comment from Uplift? I found his comment quite reasonable and it in no way warranted your response.

It appears your style of "debate" is quite similar to those you diss...

[jsot]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Ofcourse as humans we'll always have subjective PERCEPTION of objective REALITY. No doubt about it, and subliminal advertising, TV series, movies, books etc influence that.
That makes us unique and individual though.
Religion/God etc is pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ or as George Carlin said it "HOLYSHIT".
Its making 50% of the world DELUSIONAL
It amazes me so many atheis on here believe in LoA/SR etc. as its the same crap.... Glad I found out.

Jsot yeah he is "harsh", thats entirely true but it's cause atheist are SICK of being surpressed and **** by christian faith.
Like teaching intelligent design as a SCIENCE in schools WHATTHE****.
Isn't messing with a kids head from birth about HELL harsh? its childabuse...
Religious fanatics are not fit to be parents.

Tring to argue christians normally is impossible, you need to slap them in their faces. Hello this people believe the world was created in 6 days:|

The irony is that religious people look at us atheist as antichrists with no morals because we have no God, wheras the fact is that THEY are the craz ****ers who need a God to judge them otherwise they'd be serial killers.
Cuz as the say "with no God there is no morals or logic".

I'm sorry, but I can find the exact same attitude on the religious fundamentalist side. And saying "But I'm right" does not justify it. The reason so many theists think of atheism as some sort of anti-religion is because of atheists who think they are intellectually above the other side.

And Uplift, I don't know, but it sounded like your last post was a shot at the Big Band Theory. I would just like to point out that describing it as an "explosion" is inaccurate. An expansion of super-dense matter is a better way to put it.

[DaveTyler]

Nothin about bein more intellectual or whatever its simle:


Tons of evidence vs none

[agnostic]

Guys, please.

It's obvious that illuminati buried dinosaur sceletons so we lose our belief in god.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Sorry but I only find one word to describe that last reply RETARDED...
A LOT can appen in BILLIONS of years... atleast STUDY evolution beore trying to argue against it

Thats fine, so where did the cloud come from. The actual foundation of the whole theory. You are right about the billions of years bit, if only they could be so certain about tomorrow's weather forecasts.

[DaveTyler]

You dont undersand science is not DEFINITE and always changing towards perfection and Im no expert but rational thinking and information available on the internet/in books etc willl give u all answers.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by jsot

I'm sorry, but I can find the exact same attitude on the religious fundamentalist side. And saying "But I'm right" does not justify it. The reason so many theists think of atheism as some sort of anti-religion is because of atheists who think they are intellectually above the other side.

And Uplift, I don't know, but it sounded like your last post was a shot at the Big Band Theory. I would just like to point out that describing it as an "explosion" is inaccurate. An expansion of super-dense matter is a better way to put it.

It's always the same question for me. The super dense matter then, that just appears, and just decides to expand. Why, and from what.

[jsot]

Originally Posted by Uplift

It's always the same question for me. The super dense matter then, that just appears, and just decides to expand. Why, and from what.

From what I understand, the super dense matter always existed. I don't know enough about the theory to know why exactly it expanded, or if there's even an explanation for that.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

You dont undersand science is not DEFINITE and always changing towards perfection and Im no expert but rational thinking and information available on the internet/in books etc willl give u all answers.

So, you are saying the answer to the source of the cloud is known by science. So what is it. To believe in the formation of the cloud without knowledge requires dependency on faith in the unknown.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by jsot

From what I understand, the super dense matter always existed. I don't know enough about the theory to know why exactly it expanded, or if there's even an explanation for that.

So, again, your science is based on faith in the unknown. You are in the same boat as the worlds most prestigious scientists, they haven't got the faintest idea either. At least there have been spiritual icons throughout history, from numerous cultures, that have claimed and demonstrated the same knowledge with certainty, that their faith is based on.

[DaveTyler]

So ok before we discovered the Earth was round it was flat, ok
I rest my case ur logic makes most sense
Before we knew a scientific explaination of fire it was indeed magic, no doubt and the sun was God

atheist are antichrist, dinasaurs is planted by satan, God exist and cares for the world yadayadayada

[jsot]

Originally Posted by Uplift

So, again, your science is based on faith in the unknown. You are in the same boat as the worlds most prestigious scientists, they haven't got the faintest idea either. At least there have been spiritual icons throughout history, from numerous cultures, that have claimed and demonstrated the same knowledge with certainty, that their faith is based on.

I do not claim to know anything about what science does not cover. I do not claim to know what triggered the big bang and make no assumptions because those assumptions would not be backed up by evidence. I can certainly materialize evidence that supports what is [B]known[B] about the big bang. I am content with "I don't know" for now, I am in no hurry to know all the answers of the universe.

If the Big Bang Theory is not true, then it will be proven so when it turns out it doesn't adequately explain all the aspects it is called on to find explanation for. Science does not make claims that it cannot support. Religion calls on man to adhere to its claims despite lack of evidence or even abundant evidence against those claims.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

So ok before we discovered the Earth was round it was flat, ok
I rest my case ur logic makes most sense
Before we knew a scientific explaination of fire it was indeed magic, no doubt and the sun was God

atheist are antichrist, dinasaurs is planted by satan, God exist and cares for the world yadayadayada

I see your point. Imagine what people are going to think of today's scientific theories in a couple of thousand years when they are all obsolete and wrong. They will think our ignorance is unbelievable. So why are they any more relevent than the flat earth theory. Why not study something permanent, like the source of all things, that some people call Spirit or God. Spiritual icons have all said the same thing about unity and our reality and truth. Religions, or more to the point religious practitioners have often warped and twisted that message, so are not to be confused with spiritual truth. But then, science is afforded an endless stream of errors that have been just as unbelievably brutal and costly as the religious errors. So the only people that impress me enough to have faith in or trust are those outstanding Spiritual icons throughout history. If their examples and beliefs were followed, the last thing we would do is harm each other, and we would all feel equal self worth and fullfillment.

[DaveTyler]

All sayin the same thing WTF, you got to give me the number to your drugdealer
must be some great **** man.

Different Religions is NEVER EVER agreein.
Christians say the universe is 6k years old and hindus say is a trillion WTF
Listen, 2+2 will always equal 4.
Gravity will always be there regardless of theories on how it works

Religiin gives us nothing nada proof, science does.

The only spiritual icon worth reading upon was Buddha. He was a atheist.
He didnt preach **** like reincarnation
He figured the ego wasnt the real self and that there isnt a "permanent self" and tha suffering was invetiable, they had no mediacl science to give them any hope. NOW WE DO
Back then it prbably helped people get answers, now u really want to sit and waste and meditate ur whole life?
Spirit WTF we got no spirit we are flesh n bones.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

It amazes me so many atheists on here believe in LoA/SR etc. as its the same crap.... Glad I found out.

People who believe in LoA aren't atheists, IMO. Yes, technically the definition is "People who don't believe in God or gods" but IMO LoA falls into the same category.

Originally Posted by Maguru

Does it matter if there is a god or not? Surely the global human problem does not originate with a belief in a god? Many problems occur because of differing beliefs in a god but god in and of itself is not the problem.
It is 2007 and time we all grew up. It is time to take responsibility for ourselves and stop passing the buck on to god. It is time to understand that each of us collectively are creating our life experiences, and the world in which we experience our lives.

By definition God is larger and wiser than we are. It is irresponsible (and Evil!) to "take responsibility for yourself" if it contradicts his divine word.

The reason it matters if there's a God is that, if he's real, God's word is the ultimate authority that cannot rightly be disagreed with period. In that case "taking responsibility for yourself" means doing exactly what God says. Trying to find your own path is heresy.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

All sayin the same thing WTF, you got to give me the number to your drugdealer
must be some great **** man.

Different Religions is NEVER EVER agreein.
Christians say the universe is 6k years old and hindus say is a trillion WTF
Listen, 2+2 will always equal 4.
Gravity will always be there regardless of theories on how it works

Religiin gives us nothing nada proof, science does.

The only spiritual icon worth reading upon was Buddha. He was a atheist.
He didnt preach **** like reincarnation
He figured the ego wasnt the real self and that there isnt a "permanent self" and tha suffering was invetiable, they had no mediacl science to give them any hope. NOW WE DO
Back then it prbably helped people get answers, now u really want to sit and waste and meditate ur whole life?
Spirit WTF we got no spirit we are flesh n bones.

I respect Buddha as well. Meditation led to his 'enlightenment'. He lamented that even an insect suffered, and advocated non violence. Yet religions formed, based on him, and many people have killed in the name of Buddha. You are on the one hand praising Buddha, and on the other opposing meditation. Your comment on suffering makes it appear that Buddha wasn't concerned with suffering. See what happens. How easily things get twisted around. Thats the biggest problem with religions and science.

[DaveTyler]

Yeah I "praise" buddha for bein able to in his days and time(where EVERYONE was a hindu) to manage to conclude there is no real meaning or purpose to life and he had agreat lot of knowledge about psychology too.

Meditation can be great, enlightenent however is not peranent the ego will always return unless u cut contact with reality which excess meditation leads to anyway

All the stories of his enlightenent is worse than the fairytales about Jesus
Is like UG Kishnamuti says THEE IS NI ENLIGHTENMENT, only "the natural state" no divine **** and it happens to one in a billion if ur genetics aren't predisposed to it u cant do ****.

Got any ide how muh money people is foolin outta othes seeking truth in spirituality

Look at Osho Rajneeshwrote 650 books on the subject and before his deah he said there is no god or reincarnation still his retarded followers say "OUR MASTER HAS LEFT HIS BODY"