Marijuana effect

[placebo]

We have so many interesting people on this entire forum. It is great to read interesting opininos. Topics are so wide and deep, but no one mentioned ganja, weed or marijuana.

I have the honour to be the first one who admit. Hope that you have liberal approach to weed but i'd like to hear the other side too. I've been smoking weed since i was 15. By smoking i don't mean everyday 10 joints smoking. I tried that, and it's not good. Weed has great effect when you light it up 3 or 4 times in a month.

My point is that meditation and lucid dreams are awsome when i'm high. I can reach new dimensions of concentration and thinking cause level of dopamine is higher. It is like i'm entering in a peaceful dimesion where everything is relaxed and with no worries. And i really don't understand why is it illegal in most of the countries when alchohol is much more harmful, more people are adiccted to drinking than smoking.

Do you have some expiriences?

[TechnoGuyRob]

Originally Posted by placebo

Weed have great effect when light it up 3 or 4 times in a month.

Apparently not on one's English grammar capabilities.

And by the way, that's probably not lucid dreams. Just halucidations.

[placebo]

Marijuana is not in a group of psychedelic drugs

[Lotus]

Oh for heaven's sakes, it's not like we don't all know we're the next wave of hippies. I'll spill.

I started smoking weed when I was around 14, because my doctor told my mother that we needed to something, anything, so that I could eat. I was chronically ill with untreatable ulcerative colitis, and I had diarrhea so bad most of the time that I couldn't maintain a normal weight. I also had a really bad aversion to food, because eating caused a lot of servere cramping pain.

So I started rocking the ganga. I smoke once in a while still, but not often -- less than once every 6 months for the past few years. I've found that as I've gotten older, I don't like being out of my head on weed so much. I prefer the mental states induced by meditation, exercise, and (please keep this classy, people) bdsm (sub-space, which is a sort of endorphin high).

But I still think that mj ought to be legalized... everywhere. It's no worse than alcohol as a rec drug.

[Radical]

Short term effects:

• Cannabis often gives sedative like effects that make some people feel chilled out and happy and others have one puff and feel sick.
• Others get the giggles until the muscles in their face hurt.
• Hunger pangs are common and are known as 'getting the munchies'.
• Even hardcore smokers can get anxious, panicky and suspicious.
• It affects your coordination, which is why drug driving is just as illegal as drink driving.

Longer term effects:

Some people think that because cannabis is a plant it is harmless, but that's not true.

• Cannabis, like tobacco, has chemical 'nasties' which can cause lung disease and cancer with long term or heavy use. Cannabis can make asthma worse.
• And it increases blood pressure so it is a bad idea for anyone with heart problems.
• There is also increasing evidence of a link between cannabis and mental health problems such as schizophrenia. If you have a history of mental health problems or are experiencing paranoia or depression you definitely want to steer clear of cannabis.
• It's estimated that about 10% of users are hooked on cannabis.
• If you smoke it with tobacco you can get hooked on the tobacco.
• Frequent use of cannabis can cut a man's sperm count and suppress ovulation in women. If you are pregnant, smoking cannabis may harm the baby.
• Regular, heavy use makes it harder to learn and concentrate and some people begin to feel tired all the time and can't seem to get motivated.
• Most people will know of a 'dope head' who has dropped out of the real world.

[placebo]

Originally Posted by Radical

Short term effects:

• Cannabis often gives sedative like effects that make some people feel chilled out and happy and others have one puff and feel sick.
• Others get the giggles until the muscles in their face hurt.
• Hunger pangs are common and are known as 'getting the munchies'.
• Even hardcore smokers can get anxious, panicky and suspicious.
• It affects your coordination, which is why drug driving is just as illegal as drink driving.

Longer term effects:

Some people think that because cannabis is a plant it is harmless, but that's not true.

• Cannabis, like tobacco, has chemical 'nasties' which can cause lung disease and cancer with long term or heavy use. Cannabis can make asthma worse.
• And it increases blood pressure so it is a bad idea for anyone with heart problems.
• There is also increasing evidence of a link between cannabis and mental health problems such as schizophrenia. If you have a history of mental health problems or are experiencing paranoia or depression you definitely want to steer clear of cannabis.
• It's estimated that about 10% of users are hooked on cannabis.
• If you smoke it with tobacco you can get hooked on the tobacco.
• Frequent use of cannabis can cut a man's sperm count and suppress ovulation in women. If you are pregnant, smoking cannabis may harm the baby.
• Regular, heavy use makes it harder to learn and concentrate and some people begin to feel tired all the time and can't seem to get motivated.
• Most people will know of a 'dope head' who has dropped out of the real world.

of course that i'm not going to drive after smoking weed. And i'm not talking about smoking intesively.
I belive that before giving cannabis to someone he should be tested psychologicly. If you have schizophrenia in your familly then you shouldn't use it.
I haven't noticed lack of concentartion on myself or something like that. I simply can't figure it out why are people who are smoking weed more dangerous than someone who is drinking 2 bottles of wine.

Can anyone explain what are halucinations?

[DQueens]

i always end up smoking now and then with friends and everytime i do, i regret it because it makes me feel disconnected, depressed and lonely. i felt this way in september one night when i got high. i felt that i could see my friends for waht they truely were, and my life for what it was, and i didnt like it. i thought i was just thinking crazy until the next day and following weeks where the feelings werent going away. life seemed so meaningless, i didnt know what i wanted from it anymroe, and i didnt like my life as it was. however, the feeling was not quite as strong nad persistant as when i was high. i feel that getting high raises your awareness at an even quicker pace than personal growth, that's what it felt like to me. it was like a rush of coming into realization about life, and the fact that it was such a large amount of realization and awareness in a short time is probably what depressed me. I think that i should get high again, to get some more answers about my state of awareness, but i'm scared because the last time was a pretty unpleasant experience for me. however, now i kind of know what i want in life and what truely matters to me. perhaps another burst of consciouness will benefit me?

[DQueens]

a lot of people and scientists say that weed suppresses parts of the brain, but i feel that it heightens them. or, it suppresses inhibitory centres in the brain that people can use to lie to themselves, or kid themselves and, when they smoke up, their actual thoughts and feeligns manifest, good or bad. any thoughts?

[DQueens]

hallucination:
when you smell, hear, taste, touch something receptors in your skin, nose, tongue, ears sense the incoming stimuli and send input to your brain, allowing you to experience those particular sensations. sometimes, however, the brain can recieve or interrpret input from those receptors, even when nothing is stimulating them, and therefore, you may be able to see, hear taste, etc. things that are not "there". This sensation can be induced with drugs called hallucinogens, whcih i believe marijuana is... although some pepople dont classify it as such. the drugs work on the parts of the brain that percieve stimulation and tell you things are there or happening that truely arent. i am not sure if all people experience hallucinations when smoking marijuana and certainly not to the extent of other drugs such as LSD and mushrooms, but i am sure it is possible.

[Lotus]

I have auditory hallucinations when I smoke. Being deaf... this can be rather enjoyable. Reminds me of me back when I could hear.

And I stand by my earilier comment: marijuana is no worse than alcohol. Just about everything Radical posted can be applied to alcohol, if you substitue "liver disease" for "lung disease" and tweak a few statements

Short term effects:

* alcohol often gives sedative like effects that make some people feel chilled out and happy and others have one drink and feel sick.
* Others get the giggles until the muscles in their face hurt (ok, I don't know of many people who get giggles from alcohol, but I have woke up with my face hurting because I ran into a door while I was drunk. )
* Hunger pangs... not really alcohol; you got me there. Enough alcohol will cause nausea and vomiting, which we'll call anti-hunger pangs for comparison.
* Even hardcore drinkers can get anxious, panicky and suspicious ... in fact, most hardcore (usually male) drinkers have had a "fighting drunk" night.
* It affects your coordination, which is why drunk driving is just as illegal as drug driving.


Longer term effects:

Some people think that because alcohol is distilled from plants and/or natural yeast, it is harmless, but that's not true.

* Alcohol, like tobacco, has chemical 'nasties' (namely alcohol) which can cause liver disease and cirrhosis with long term or heavy use. Alcohol can make existing health problems worse.
* There is also increasing evidence of a link between alcohol and mental health problems If you have a history of mental health problems or are experiencing paranoia or depression you definitely want to steer clear of alcohol.
* It's estimated that about (? who knows this figure reliably?) of users are hooked on alcohol.
* If you drink it with tobacco you can get hooked on the tobacco. (If you eat spaghetti while smoking tobacco you can get hooked on the tabacco. This factoid is not relavant unless you want me to make a "nicotine" dangers list.)
* If you are pregnant, drinking alcohol (moderately or heavily) will harm the baby. See fetal alcohol syndrome.
* Regular, heavy use makes it harder to learn and concentrate and some people begin to feel drunk all the time and can't seem to get motivated.
* Most people will know of a 'alcoholic'... often in their own immediate or extended family.

I'm not trying to make a joke of the dangers of drug use. I'm pointing out that alcohol (and nicotine) is (are) just as much a drug as weed. But I don't feel that the government should be allowing alcohol use, and indeed, the use of many "cannibis substitutes," and (what the hell) let's throw in nicotine with its on-board carcinogens in cigarettes/cigars, while keeping cannibis illegal.

I've never been out driving while I was drunk or high. (I have smoked a cigar while driving, however. I'm not a regular smoker, but I have had an occasional cigar.) Driving while intoxicated on any substance ridiculous, be it weed, alcohol, prescribed tranqs, heroin, or whatever. Driving high is just as irresponsible as driving drunk or driving sedated. However, I know of a lot more people who have been killed by drunk drivers than by high drivers, although that figure is probably skewed toward alcohol due to its rampant and widespread use, while marijuana is somewhat more of a closeted drug. ::shrugs::

It's responsible to post a dangers list as a caveat when talking about drug use -- any drug. But I think this thead was intended to talk about states of consciousness induced by marijuana use, and to question if those states are beneficial to personal development. Frankly, I think not over the long term, although it might be beneficial for certain very curious individuals to try mj for a short period to gain perspective; in the same way that many people 'try' alcohol to experience the slightly altered state of 'tipsy' or 'drunk' before they decide that it is not beneficial for personal growth.

Anyway... please feel free to flame me if you think I'm advocating illegal drug use. I'm trying to play devil's advocate here, because all perspectives are useful, even the unpopular ones.

[placebo]

Originally Posted by DQueens

i always end up smoking now and then with friends and everytime i do, i regret it because it makes me feel disconnected, depressed and lonely. i felt this way in september one night when i got high. i felt that i could see my friends for waht they truely were, and my life for what it was, and i didnt like it. i thought i was just thinking crazy until the next day and following weeks where the feelings werent going away. life seemed so meaningless, i didnt know what i wanted from it anymroe, and i didnt like my life as it was. however, the feeling was not quite as strong nad persistant as when i was high. i feel that getting high raises your awareness at an even quicker pace than personal growth, that's what it felt like to me. it was like a rush of coming into realization about life, and the fact that it was such a large amount of realization and awareness in a short time is probably what depressed me. I think that i should get high again, to get some more answers about my state of awareness, but i'm scared because the last time was a pretty unpleasant experience for me. however, now i kind of know what i want in life and what truely matters to me. perhaps another burst of consciouness will benefit me?

This raise of awareness happens to me all the time. That's the only reason for me to smoke weed. If i'm not satisfied with something in my life and i suppress it, it shows up when i'm high. When i'm happy and enjoying life then this feeling is great. So i can know myself better with this.

If you live in America you have cannabis with much bigger level of THC than home grown European weed. I've never experienced some halucinations, losing senses or something like that. Also i have no desire to smoke it more than few times in 50-60 days

[RandomGuy101]

I also enjoy the occasional smoking session. Sometimes it makes me think about very deep philosophical things. Then later when I am sober I realize the things I was thinking about that I thought were so profound at the time were a little silly haha.

I do not think there is anything wrong with VERY occasional smoking (I'm talking like once a month at most). Once I even had an out of body experience on weed, that was intense lol.

[Trina]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Anyway... please feel free to flame me if you think I'm advocating illegal drug use. I'm trying to play devil's advocate here, because all perspectives are useful, even the unpopular ones.

I don't think you are advocating illegal drug use as much as you are saying that marijuana use shouldn't be illegal. Big difference. And I agree with what you have said. I don't think that marijuana is any more (or even as) harmful as alcohol. Just my opinion though.

[Stephen]

I would consider myself, philosophically, to be as close to anarchic libertarian as they come.

So the smoking of hash or the injecting of smack doesnt bother me: If thats what a person wants to do, let them be. As for the benefits in creativity one may experience I cannot say from experience.

However I could probably say, a priori, that along with the biological addiction comes the socio-biological addiction to hedonism through substance alone. For me, like with alcohol, thats where the danger is.

I think that if people cant enjoy and thrive on life without substance enhanced moods, then that is a sorry state to be in.

[Niki]

I stopped smoking for 3 years and i can tell you, it's much better now.( i'm 21 years old now)

"High for a day slow for a month."
While it's not so dramatic, there is some truth in it. after you smoke the "weed" stays for a month in your blood.( decreasing ) This doesnt means your high for a month but , not even slow. But your not as sharp as you really are either.

My experience with it isn't very nice. I smoked for years, starting with a few a month fast increasing my smoke-rate till a few a day. This was a total waste of money, time and future . When i decided to stop i needed at least 1 year to sharpen my social skills again ( i did not know how to act when i wasn't stoned)

The years i smoked i was to stoned to do something ( messed up school ).

So maybe you dont agree, but a nice tip for the Smokers here . Stop

Stop and live here and now. If you want to be high go spiritual. But dont do drugs.

It is bad, nomatter what you believe.

maybe they say it doesnt hurt you, or it isnt bad . Think again !

It is first of all smoke. that friends, is NEVER good for your body

Second, It is drugs, the thc that makes you high messes op your mind and thinking. Your concentration is down and your logic thinking isn't so logic anymore. Because it messes up your thinking,and so on your thinking messes up your life. You dont know what's important or not (until you wake up, ouch)

Third, it is expensive . If you really want to wast your money i will mail you my bank account number !

Fourth. If hey arrest you, you maybe go to jail, you get a record with the police or you have to pay more money.

Fifth. Be an example four the younger ones. It is more important then you may be thinking


Sorry about my horrible english.

I hope the truth touches you.

[Stephen]

Thanks for that Niki, I believe that came from the heart.

Live in the here and now is the best advice I could give anyone.

Well done for kickin it.

[Nelson]

While yes they are harmful effects to smoking I believe that it has it's benefits as well. As with any state-changing technique or substance it is best used responsibly and for a higher purpose than just getting "************ed up".

Not to say that's not a good purpose for them every once in a while

But truth be told, mediation in combination with altered states is very intense, powerful and spiritually moving. Almost all major religions use or have previously used drugs to enhance the spirtual experience. We however msut use these responsibly for one and two we must use these as a means...not an end.

Smoking weed is great, but smoking with the purpose of worshipping God on a higher level and with greater enthusiasm is key to the whole process.

It is when we treat drugs as a god instead of a gift FROM God that they becokme dangerous and unholy.

[KittyG]

(((((Niki)))))
Those are hugs, where I come from. .
After smoking several bowls a day for 7 years, with help, I quit.
When I was high, I'd become distanced and disconnected and anti-social (like someone else said),I let people abuse me and I abused people.
I have 6 months sober.
It is so trippy to be feeling feelings, again.
And not always fun.
But my natural highs are so much better than any thing induced.

I believe one is either aggressively growing forward or they start to die. I feel intoxicating your inner child and inner holy spirit (if you've invited God into your life) is killing yourself-slowly.
It doesn't take any courage to commit suicide.

Maybe some of you can smoke "every once in a while." That's great. Not me. I am truely an addict. One hit is too much and a thousand is never enough.

I believe God does not want me spending my life getting high to get through it.

A grateful heart does not get high. I heard somebody say this and truely believe it.

That's my experience.

[FearlessGhost]

A few years ago I started smoking a lot of pot and spent most of my time high. I was also into spiritual growth and personal development. In fact, I read the Power of Now, seen What The Bleep Do We Know, watched a PBS special on string theory, read countless articles and self help books, and practised meditation; all when I was stoned. I have experienced profound truths and inderstandings of the universe and how it works along with learning to identify my awareness thanks to the aid of mary jane.
Sometimes when I feel like my life has gotten a little off track, I will smoke a little bit, do some deep breathing exercises, and let my awareness recognize thoughts and thought patterns (which automatically disconnect the awareness from the dreams of those thought patterns which in turn calms the mind) and then simply let answers to my questions simply come to me. The next day I will feel fresh and find myself back on course.
I read the Taoist book, Multi-Orgasmic Man, and found that I was able to learn how to circulate my sexual energy when I was high which enhances sexual pleasure. This is a lesson I have taken with me.
In all of my experiences I have learned that anyone one thing is not intrinsically good or bad, what makes something good or bad is what we do with it. If people can use marijuana as a tool for personal growth, more power to them. I personally find that when using marijuana, one or two hits serves my intentions well (the ancient yogis would recommend only on the full moon).
And as an fyi, there are different strains of marijuana, The sativa strain is mildly psychoactive.

Here are some links to some related resources on the net

An article about marijuana and sex

Psychedelic Yoga - Mediation techniques while on psychedelic drugs which include marijuana

Jesus Used Marijuana including the history of marijuana and human consciousness

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I started smoking weed when I was around 14, because my doctor told my mother that we needed to something, anything, so that I could eat. I was chronically ill with untreatable ulcerative colitis, and I had diarrhea so bad most of the time that I couldn't maintain a normal weight. I also had a really bad aversion to food, because eating caused a lot of servere cramping pain.

Note: The following isn’t so much a direct reply to Lotus, but more of a general reply to the thread. The reason I quoted Lotus was to give my post some sort of context. Anyway...

While I believe that almost anything, including drugs and other such substances, can be of use if used in a responsible and consciousness manner, it is not my opinion that drugs (including legal prescription drugs, etc.) are necessary, and for the vast majority of cases where people take (legal or illegal) drugs, there are other solutions to be found that do not have the negative consequences that are associated with drugs.

And I believe this is one of the major problems with drugs - most of the individuals who are using them are not nearly at a high enough level of consciousness to fully understand the consequences of their actions (good or bad), and thus it is foolish for such individuals to even consider such things (and don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about anyone here... I'm more so referring to young children and teenagers who use things like marijuana irresponsibly on a regular basis for nothing more then "recreation").

With that said, I'll openly admit that I personally cannot draw very accurate distinctions about drugs simply because they are completely outside of my experience. I have never used any illegal drugs in my life, and the amount of legal (medical) drugs I have used you could count on two hands. As far as I can remember, I haven’t even used a "pain killer" such as Panadol or Aspirin.

And the reason I do not use drugs of any kind is not because I fear any possible consequences, but because to me, my body is my temple. I have the upmost respect for my body, and I will simply not allow myself to consciously choose to abuse it in any way. To me, it is a privilege to have the opportunity to experience life and everything associated with it. And within those experiences, I expect my body to be functional and responsive at all times (within reason of course). While I do not see my awareness as separate from my body, from the perspective of my body, if I was providing this function and responsiveness, I would expect the person calling the shots (i.e. me - my awareness) to respect this offering, and ensure that it is not taken for granted.

For example, when I was around 18 years old (it is legal for 18 year olds to purchase and consume alcohol in Australia, the country I currently reside in), I decided that I would sample alcohol. I never drank enough to become drunk, but I did drink enough to become slightly "tipsy", and I found the effects of alcohol to be so undesirable (especially for the money you spend on it) that I am yet to have an alcoholic beverage since, I and do not believe I will ever drink alcohol again.

While almost everyone around me tells me that alcohol is so great, I simply cannot justify drinking a substance that dulls your awareness and suppresses your senses. I have always been relatively sensitive to my surroundings in terms of my awareness, and even in small amounts, I find alcohol deprived me of this subtle, yet extremely valuable awareness, and again, I cannot understand why anyone would consciously choose to deprive themselves of it (I do understand why a lot of people drink alcohol, though – it serves as a temporary escape from reality).

Anyway, while I don’t really have a major point to make here, it is my opinion that even when used consciously, drugs have no (highly positive or constructive) use in the domain of personal development. While I’m quite sure they have many consciousness altering effects, I believe the negative consequences far outweigh the positive benefits, and most people would be better off seeking such progression and altered states of awareness through the natural abilities their bodies provide them with. To quote Sylvester Stallone (aka 'Rocky' and 'Rambo') from his book, Sly Moves (which I highly recommend):

“What I began realizing was that the body is nothing but an honest machine that will never cheat you. It gives back exactly what you give it, good or bad.”

So ask yourself: Do you honestly treat your body with the respect it deserves, or do you take it for granted, cheating both it, and yourself?

[Nelson]

In all of my experiences I have learned that anyone one thing is not intrinsically good or bad, what makes something good or bad is what we do with it. If people can use marijuana as a tool for personal growth, more power to them.

Thanks Fearless, I think you completly captured what I was trying to say.

Bruce I can definitely sense good intent in your advice, I'm all for respecting my body and treating as my temple - and I definitely follow you - to an extent.

Problems start to arise however, when you admit to never drinking enough to get drunk. Your lack of experience in the subjects shows through.

In my beliefs (which of course only truly affect my reality) there are various level to our conciousness that hold different wisdom. There is subconcious, our autopilot. There is superconcious our connection to God and the supernatural and the universe itself. There is our human concousness and there is our animal conciousness.

To be drunk inhibits some parts of our conciousness in order to have full acess to lower levels. You cannot neccesarily access the animal conciousness without interuppting the human conciousness to some extent.

So my advice to you is to truly go all the way with a substance of your chocie - be it alchohol, tea, blu lotus something illegal or whatever it is you feel would greatly expand your understanding of yourself and the universe.

Actually get drunk; wasted to the point of embarrasment if you desire. You will feel a real change in your perspective. That's all it is, a change in your perspective. From time to time it is good to get a healthy view from another angle, whether that view be animal or some lower brain function or whether it be the views of your angelic guides and the superconcious. It is all just trying to help us find an accurate model of reality.

I can already tell you are very wise and with further knowledge of the subject - and I mean true knowledge and experience not something you have read on the internet. When you have full experience and knowledge, your wisdom will come from two educated perspectives, then you will have a much stronger basis on which to uproot my logic and my understanding if it is flawed.

[placebo]

I found this on Marijuana & Sex and it is tellin almost everything i want to say :

Marijuana has been used as an aphrodisiac for thousands of years, yet ironically it has also been used to decrease sexual desire. Ancient sacred texts reveal how to use marijuana to increase sexual pleasure, but modern research teaches an equally important lesson: marijuana's effects are determined by the personality, physiology, intention, environment, and culture of the user.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Bruce Achterberg

And the reason I do not use drugs of any kind is not because I fear any possible consequences, but because to me, my body is my temple. I have the upmost respect for my body, and I will simply not allow myself to consciously choose to abuse it in any way.

If your temple were crumbling, would you not try to shore it up?

You're very lucky, Bruce, that you seem to have naturally good health. I do not, and I was not given a choice about taking drugs in the beginning. And my temple was tearing itself down. After about 3 years of very serious chronic illness (in me, from age 9 -12ish), my mother went to bed crying every night because she was afraid that I was going to die.

When I was 20, I was on oxygen because my immune system was tearing my lungs apart. That time it took an experimental tx with chemo at Mayo clinic (and a complete colectomy afterward, as the gut was the source of the autoimmune problem) before I was fixed.

Sometimes you have to bug bomb your temple if you want to keep living in it.


At least, that's my perspective. If someday you have to live it from this side, you might see what I'm talking about. But I hope you never have to; I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by DQueens

i always end up smoking now and then with friends and everytime i do, i regret it because it makes me feel disconnected, depressed and lonely. i felt this way in september one night when i got high. i felt that i could see my friends for waht they truely were, and my life for what it was, and i didnt like it. i thought i was just thinking crazy until the next day and following weeks where the feelings werent going away. life seemed so meaningless, i didnt know what i wanted from it anymroe, and i didnt like my life as it was. however, the feeling was not quite as strong nad persistant as when i was high. i feel that getting high raises your awareness at an even quicker pace than personal growth, that's what it felt like to me. it was like a rush of coming into realization about life, and the fact that it was such a large amount of realization and awareness in a short time is probably what depressed me. I think that i should get high again, to get some more answers about my state of awareness, but i'm scared because the last time was a pretty unpleasant experience for me. however, now i kind of know what i want in life and what truely matters to me. perhaps another burst of consciouness will benefit me?

In mushroom culture, that is known as "breaking down the ego". A lot of conscious people indulge in them for that very reason, because the drug will put you face to face with yourself, and sometimes people don't like what they see. However, the downside is that you have to decide if what you saw and felt were true, so I believe you can get there yourself.

I am a big drug advocate, even though I don't do many drugs often. Someone who uses them in a responsible manner for learning can glan a lot from it, but if you use it to get ************ed up and go see Star Wars, you are using it wrong (I was guilty of that at one point). If you wan't an alternate perspective on things it can be a useful tool, but who want's an alternate perspective every single day?

Personally, I view junkfood and prescription drugs as being much more harmful than naturally occuring drugs.

As for the smoke from marijuana, you can combat that using a vaporizer, making it harmless in the carcinogenic sense.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Bruce I can definitely sense good intent in your advice, I'm all for respecting my body and treating as my temple - and I definitely follow you - to an extent.

Problems start to arise however, when you admit to never drinking enough to get drunk. Your lack of experience in the subjects shows through.

[...] So my advice to you is to truly go all the way with a substance of your chocie - be it alchohol, tea, blu lotus something illegal or whatever it is you feel would greatly expand your understanding of yourself and the universe.

[...] When you have full experience and knowledge, your wisdom will come from two educated perspectives, then you will have a much stronger basis on which to uproot my logic and my understanding if it is flawed.

You definitely have a point, Nelson - there is indeed no substitute for experience. But it is my opinion that there are some experiences not worth having – either because of undesirable consequences, the fact that they are not aligned with your personal values, etc. It’s not so much that I believe certain experiences are devoid of value. Quite the contrary, I believe that all experiences hold value – some sort of ‘truth’ that can further your understanding of the nature of reality and “how it all works”. As Fearless says, experiences are inherently neutral; what makes something “good” or “bad” is what we do with it. It’s just that certain experiences may not be completely necessary, but this would generally depend heavily on what one wants to accomplish.

In my above post I openly admit that I personally cannot draw very accurate distinctions about drugs, simply because they are completely outside of my experience. But while I may never know what it is like to be high, drunk, or what insights I may be potentially missing out on by choosing to not experience something in particular, I am ok with that. While I certainly enjoy seeing from multiple perspectives and increasing my understanding of reality, I would enjoy something a whole lot less if it was to in some way violate my personal values and morals. And while I am quite likely to limit the amount of experiences I can have by choosing to act in accordance with my values, I believe this is a reality that one must accept in life.

When we choose to experience certain things, other things may no longer be accessible to us, and occasionally, depending on your beliefs, we don’t even have the choice. For example, some people are born with some sort of vision impairment, and some are even born blind. These individuals may never experience sight (or at least full sight), but because one experience is not available to them (ie. sight), other ones open up that would have previously been inaccessible, or at least, difficult to reach. Blind people, for example, usually make up for their blindness by having heightened hearing, sense of smell, touch, etc. They may be able to perceive certain subtleties with their heightened senses that those with full sight may never experience simply because it is outside of their experience, and possibly even inaccessible to them. It is quite possible for an individual with full sight to deprive him/herself of it to see what it is like to experience the world exclusively through their other senses, but this is a case of something that would generally be undesirable. The experience comes at too great a price, and while this is a rather extreme example, it illustrates my point.

Ultimately, I think we can agree that all experiences are unique, and what makes each of us unique as an individual is the collection of experiences we have had within our lifetime. In terms of the limited knowledge we - as humans - possess, it seems almost impossible to know in advance if a particular experience is absolutely necessary. And who’s to say an experience is “necessary” in the first place? There is literally an infinite amount of experiences one can possibly have, the only limiting factor being how many of these experiences you are actually able to experience during your lifetime (and we don't even know if that is certain! ...depending on your beliefs).

It is my belief that if one is to live their life in accordance with their values and morals, one must be willing to accept that certain things may not be available to them if they are unwilling to undergo certain experiences. I am no exception to that, and I accept this. That said, I think that one of the great challenges in life is trying to experience things that lie within the domain of the “impossible”. Reality will always be the ultimate judge, but if we were to accept the notion that one is able to change their reality with something as simple as their thoughts, do you not become the one who is the “gate keeper” to certain experiences – the one to conquer in order to make further progress in the “game” of life?

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Lotus

If your temple were crumbling, would you not try to shore it up?

You're very lucky, Bruce, that you seem to have naturally good health. I do not, and I was not given a choice about taking drugs in the beginning. And my temple was tearing itself down. After about 3 years of very serious chronic illness (in me, from age 9 -12ish), my mother went to bed crying every night because she was afraid that I was going to die.

[...] Sometimes you have to bug bomb your temple if you want to keep living in it.

At least, that's my perspective. If someday you have to live it from this side, you might see what I'm talking about. But I hope you never have to; I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

While I do not believe I have naturally good health (I had to work to reach a level where I could consider myself as reasonably “healthy” and even then, I have to maintain this level), I was certainly not born with, nor did I develop such afflictions that you have unfortunately been subject to.

However, that is why I said this in my above post:

Originally Posted by Bruce Achterberg

While I believe that almost anything, including drugs and other such substances, can be of use if used in a responsible and consciousness manner, it is not my opinion that drugs (including legal prescription drugs, etc.) are necessary, and for the vast majority of cases where people take (legal or illegal) drugs, there are other solutions to be found that do not have the negative consequences that are associated with drugs.

In your particular case you where not within that “vast majority” that I mention, and while it is possible that there may have been something else other then marijuana that may have assisted you with eating when you had ulcerative colitis, at that particular time there did not seem to be any other options available to you, and there is no harm done in doing what you had to do in order to live.

But this does go to show that there can certainly be some cases where the positive benefits of drugs completely outweigh the negative side effects, and I can say I am truly thankful to be living in an age where there is so much available to us without unreasonable restrictions. As Fearless says:

“In all of my experiences I have learned that anyone one thing is not intrinsically good or bad, what makes something good or bad is what we do with it.”

A knife, for example, is not intrinsically good or bad. A knife can be a useful cutting tool, but a knife can also be a dangerous weapon used to inflict harm. It all depends on the usage, and more importantly the user. The same thing goes for drugs (including marijuana). Without a doubt, marijuana certainly has some useful application (in terms of medical treatment, etc.), but at the same time it can also have some undesirable applications (such as addiction, overdose, etc.).

With that said, it is also quite possible for someone to derive some good from a seemingly inherently negative experience. For example, someone who was previously chronically addicted to dugs could write a book about how they eventually overcame their addiction and end up helping hundreds of others to do the same. Again, it is all dependant on the user, and additionally, how you perceive an experience is also dependant on you. A quote from Kahlil Gibran’s book The Prophet comes to mind:

The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.

Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter’s oven?

And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives?

When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which
has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.

When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see in truth that you
are weeping for that which has been your delight.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Bruce Achterberg

In your particular case you where not within that “vast majority” that I mention, and while it is possible that there may have been something else other then marijuana that may have assisted you with eating when you had ulcerative colitis, at that particular time there did not seem to be any other options available to you, and there is no harm done in doing what you had to do in order to live.

Actually, weed was a last ditch effort. I'd been on every available drug that was supposed to help, had acupuncture, was already doing deep relaxation and meditation, tried a lot of "not generally accepted by the medical community" remedies, and I can't even remember what else.

My doctor ended up putting central line in so that I could get fluids at night, but it was so hard on my pancreas that I couldn't get enough calories, and I was doing basically nothing except trying to sit in class at school.

Marijuana was really a life-saving intervention for me.

I do agree with you, however, on some of the finer points - people tend to take far more chemicals into themselves than is probably necessary. And after years and years of taking pills, I feel polluted, and the feeling is getting worse as times on. I've really gotten to a point where I don't want to take much of anything.

I've just been on this side of the fence for so long that it's difficult for me to sit still when I hear someone putting a value judgement on "most people". The truth is that most people will have a serious illness at least once in their lifetime. The people that don't are the ones that die young. Most people will have a choice to make about taking a serious body-altering chemical or veritable pharmocopia. Could these people have adopted a better life-style and avoided the illness? Maybe. Maybe not.

Since I've gone into allied health/medicine, I get to see things from the (student-) clinician's side now. And all I see are regular people, many of whom do not have the intellectual capacity that is rampant on this forum. Do we have a responsibility to these people? I think we do. And if they chose to take a "medicine" after the illness, rather than taking preventative measures to avoid the illness... then that is their life, and they have to deal with it. Many of these people will never come to terms with the fact that they could have done something to change what's happened to their bodies.

I'd trade every joint I've ever had to have grown up like a healthy teenager.

Maybe I should start a thread on personal responsibility to maintain one's health to save the rest of us from having to debate about drugs, eh?

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Actually, weed was a last ditch effort. I'd been on every available drug that was supposed to help, had acupuncture, was already doing deep relaxation and meditation, tried a lot of "not generally accepted by the medical community" remedies, and I can't even remember what else.

My doctor ended up putting central line in so that I could get fluids at night, but it was so hard on my pancreas that I couldn't get enough calories, and I was doing basically nothing except trying to sit in class at school.

Marijuana was really a life-saving intervention for me.

Well thank you, Lotus, for sharing your story – it would definitely take a lot of courage to endure such experiences and come out at the end willing to talk openly about them (on a public forum no less!). While your experiences would have certainly been somewhat unpleasant for you (that’s probably a massive understatement), it has been very enlightening seeing things from your perspective, even if I only had but a glimpse of the experiences you have gone through. One of the main reasons I posted in this thread in the first place is because I find the discussion topic intensely interesting, mainly because as I have said, it is completely outside of my experience. While I have no intention of personally experiencing the effects and usages of various (legal and illegal) substances, there is still much I can learn from the experiences of others (which is great, because I love to learn ).

I find it fascinating that marijuana was able to work for you when everything else you tried had failed. Depending on ones beliefs, there could be many ways to interpret this, but it is fascinating none the less and really goes to show that there as so many things in this world that we are still miles away from comprehending (and if you haven’t noticed, I find this widespread mystery enthralling ).

Originally Posted by Lotus

I've just been on this side of the fence for so long that it's difficult for me to sit still when I hear someone putting a value judgement on "most people". The truth is that most people will have a serious illness at least once in their lifetime. The people that don't are the ones that die young. Most people will have a choice to make about taking a serious body-altering chemical or veritable pharmocopia. Could these people have adopted a better life-style and avoided the illness? Maybe. Maybe not.

After reviewing my original post in this thread, I can see how it could easily come across as very judgemental and critical, even if such things were far from my original intentions. Unfortunately this is one of the realities of text-based communication. Without the subtle, yet extremely important inclusion of things such emotion, body language, tone of voice, prior knowledge of an individual, etc., it is easy for words to derive an unintended tone and take on a meaning of their own. That said, I’ll admit to not being able to express myself very well, so I’ll try to keep this in mind when I make future posts – perhaps I should use more emoticons.

One key thing that I have learnt here is that there are many people with vastly different experiences to myself, and while I have always known that, the seriousness of the truth does not necessarily dawn upon one instantaneously (at least in my case). While my particular actions may have provided me certain results (either as a consequence of my actions, “luck”, or any number of contributing factors), not everyone will have shared my results. I cannot be 100% certain if my good health is a result of my actions, “luck”, external factors outside of my control, my particular beliefs, or anything else for that matter, but I am thankful for what I have and by no means take it for granted. As I said previously, treating my “temple” with respect is one of the ways I honour what I have, much like you once honoured the privilege of life by using whatever means necessary to preserve it. It’s all relevant, and I think we all do what we can with what is available to us. Even in the case of those who choose to abuse their bodies with harmful substances, they clearly know no better, and it is not judgement that they deserve, but compassion and assistance in ensuring that their particular choice is a fully conscious one.

Originally Posted by Lotus

Maybe I should start a thread on personal responsibility to maintain one's health to save the rest of us from having to debate about drugs, eh?

While that isn’t a bad idea and I’m sure such a thread would also be very interesting, I do not believe that what we are doing here is debating, as such. I see it more of a healthy and constructive expression of our own unique perspectives, and while we may not always agree with the perspective of others’ in contrast with our own, so long as we act in a responsible and overall conscious manner as to not degrade the quality of the expression, there is much we can learn from one another, and one of my intentions of participating within these great forums is to do just that.

Additionally, I feel that what we are discussing is very relevant to the original topic of the thread. As moderators, if Adam (who helps me moderate this particular board) and I find that the discussion in this thread is venturing a little too far off-topic, we can easily get it back on track and make the other topic available for discussion in another thread or simply edit the name of this thread so that it encompasses both topics (vBulletin – the forum software Steve is using for these forums - has some awesome features, I’ll tell you that!).

With that said, let the discussion continue! I’m eager to read about other experiences people have had. I’m particularly interested in the effects drugs (such as marijuana) have on an individuals perception and awareness, and if such experiences can provide us with any further clues that help to describe the nature of consciousness itself (assuming such a thing can be defined!).

[Holden McNeil]

Hey, interesting.

I had about a 1/3 of a joint with some friends a few months back, and the most I felt was after about 20 minutes; this strange warmth going through every part of my body, up to the tips of my fingers and toes. Lasted about 10 minutes, then went away. Dissapointing, lol! I didn't feel what is think is "stoned" (which is the whole reason I wanted to try it out) - so i'm curious: i've heard you have to do it a few times before the effects actually start kicking in, is that accurate?

[placebo]

with all the drugs it's the same. First time you don't know what to expect and beacuse of that nothing actually happens.
When you know what to expect you can change your thoughts and actions (like not being stoned). And then all that stuff become interesting.
Problem is that your perception of yourself and the world around changes. When you're high and someone calls you stupid for example you will think about that too much and ask yourself a lot of questions. Why did he say that, am i really stupid and things like that.

When you realise that you shouldn't take bad thoughts for serious those kinds of worries dissapear. And you can enjoy doing some positive thinking. When some bad thoughts show up say to yourself :"It is because i'm stoned at hte moment". And when happy thoughts show up just be happy.

That is the way I see it.