drugs and awakening/LOC

[stroodle]

do you think there is a stronger awakening rate with people who use drugs?

for myself, after several years of marijuana i had an awakening experience. and from now, whenever i am high, all i can do is think/learn/understand more about...well everything/reality.

maybe it's because your mind is more fluid and open to new/abstract concepts, which allows you to remove yourself from 'everyday reality' and look at things in a whole new light (aka the greater picture).

what are your thoughts on drugs and LOC?

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by stroodle

do you think there is a stronger awakening rate with people who use drugs?

Yup... potheads are our hope for the future... they show such maturity and hindsight... that it's a wonder that schools don't make drugs mandatory...

.

[Uplift]

Heaps of guys I played basketball with used dope, speed, or coke, or other types of uppers used on greyhounds and racehorses. They might have played a couple of good games, if they were the worrying type, or inhibited by fear, or were injured. In the end it was sad. Physically pretty wrecked, but mentally and emotionally much worse. When someone tells you how 'awesome' they are playing...with match stats - 2 points, 0 rebounds, fouled out, 30 scored against them, heaps of errors. Some snapped out of it, and did it hard 'learning' to play straight again, some...truly so sad.

[Old Soul]

I had a few awakening experiences, and I don't do drugs... my experiences were also prior to prescription drugs as well

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by stroodle

do you think there is a stronger awakening rate with people who use drugs?

for myself, after several years of marijuana i had an awakening experience. and from now, whenever i am high, all i can do is think/learn/understand more about...well everything/reality.

maybe it's because your mind is more fluid and open to new/abstract concepts, which allows you to remove yourself from 'everyday reality' and look at things in a whole new light (aka the greater picture).

what are your thoughts on drugs and LOC?

Drugs (even the legal ones) are good at suspending the doubt and denial of the physical, but the physical remins persistant and demanding, requiring you to mostly stay in the moment to create properly.

There is no real creation while on drugs, there is a good illusion to create, but it's an illusion. Real creation demands your full sober attention, such is the nature of purpose

Viva La Corona!!!

Maxine

[skinnyninja]

As a recovering drug addict, I would say that some drugs can be a tool at best....but they are certainly not necessary for the "journey." I believe some of the great hippies out there have said much the same thing.

I have been clean and sober for almost 7 years. My life is really good now.

For me, sobriety is the biggest trip of all. Life just keeps getting better. Don't feel that you need drugs in order to elevate your consciousness.

[infinitethoughts]

America is scared to death of the Shamanistic experience, hence pot being illegal. Personally I think americans are scared of their own shadows. Has to do with being founded under Puritans.

Luckily the US doesn't own the world, as Cheney would like it, so Shamans are free to use Peyote and Mescaline to contact the other sides of infinity.

[Lallymac]

Moving in and out of expanded states of awareness is something that has occured naturally for me for as far back as I can remember.
One of the concerns I would have if you reached these states through the use of drugs is that the drug would be attributed to the altered state and not expanded self. '
The drug could create a separation between the individual and the experience. As far as I'm concerned we are unquestionably spirit beings having a spiritual experience. If you experience more of yourself naturally then you 'know' it to be true.
Lallymac

[Atma]

Originally Posted by skinnyninja

As a recovering drug addict, I would say that some drugs can be a tool at best....but they are certainly not necessary for the "journey." I believe some of the great hippies out there have said much the same thing.

I have been clean and sober for almost 7 years. My life is really good now.

For me, sobriety is the biggest trip of all. Life just keeps getting better. Don't feel that you need drugs in order to elevate your consciousness.

I could't agree more.Just add that abuse of any drug is a fake life,and no way it can truly expand your consciousness.You can get some results in lower psychism, doing it as a way of a black path,but forget it if you want the true thing.People like to imagine that they are experiencing higher state of consciousness,when in fact they are just having illusionary trip,with potential of damiging their etheric body.In extreme cases you can go insane not just from psychodelics and amphetamines,but from weed also.I've done the whole lot,and I've seen it happen.Clean high beats everything.

[stroodle]

i think weed helped me raise my awareness by letting me view things from a completely different state.....so that when i was sober, I could question that altered POV and it helped me question everything else......which I don't think I really did before hand

sure you can do that without drugs, but if you grow up within a system your whole life...it's hard to step out of it.

[karlos768]

i understand exactly what you mean stroodle and have tried explaining this to a friend of mine and he doesnt understand, so it obviously does'nt affect everyone in this way but for me well

i have been smoking since i was 13 up until i was 15 but then suffered from psychosis due to the heavy smoking so i quit for a 18mnths, did as much research as posible to find out what had hapened to me and ended smoking every so often at first 'u know how its starts' then almost every day up till now and im 20 in 2 days when i plann to quit.

but back to the point in them 18months that i had quit for, i noticed i was so very different not in a bad way i totally recovered from the psychosis in fact it may be a combo of the psychotic episode, mentaly maturing, not being stoned anymore i dont quite know but i changed i had a 1000 thoughts on my mind at once and became interested in the universe and chi, meditation, shamanism, psychology, sociology, religion, war and well you get the idea, i have just gotten deeper and deeper over the years and i think weed as well as just getting older has deffinately oped my mind to the nth degree and like you said raised my awareness.

anyway im quiting in three days and going to search for my natural high of course i may have the ocasional recreational reefa.

enjoy the mind expansion

[Angela]

Wellllll....... sure, you don't need recreational drugs to open your spirit to alternative realities, and sure, it's a bad idea to play basketball on drugs, and, well, I'll agree that drugs get in the way of real presence.....

but..... let's not flush everything down the toilet, metaphorically speaking!

[XeutonMojukai]

Sorry, double post!

[XeutonMojukai]

Why are you guys so hard on prescription drugs?

I have neurological disorders from birth, and without my medications I am a danger to myself and others without fail.

That's all I have to say.

~ David

Also, there is a story I'd like to tell:

What the Bleep do we Know!? is a movie about quantum physics and the Law of Attraction, quite simply.

I showed it to my friend's friend, who had tried pot for the first time the day before.

He said it was the most incredible thing he'd ever experienced, and that his vision was sharpened and more colorful on the walk home (as is mine after a good enlightening experience).

~ David

[stroodle]

Originally Posted by karlos768

but back to the point in them 18months that i had quit for, i noticed i was so very different not in a bad way i totally recovered from the psychosis in fact it may be a combo of the psychotic episode, mentaly maturing, not being stoned anymore i dont quite know but i changed i had a 1000 thoughts on my mind at once and became interested in the universe and chi, meditation, shamanism, psychology, sociology, religion, war and well you get the idea, i have just gotten deeper and deeper over the years and i think weed as well as just getting older has deffinately oped my mind to the nth degree and like you said raised my awareness.

exactly the same thing happened to me. i stopped for this past year because i was going back to school and i wanted it completely out of habit. and i found that with my new found awareness everything in the universe started to interest me - and has ever since.

on a related note, i just watched this documentary on medicinal marijuana, called In Pot We Trust - and it just amazes me at what the state the world is in today. how a plant that can help people with painful diseases is illegal. and it seems to help people without illnesses too, like me. i think there is a positive reason marijuana exists.

[jlawson]

Before I get into all that I'd like to say, allow me to point out that nearly 90% of the responses to this thread have virtually dodged the question: do you think there is a stronger awakening rate with people who use drugs?

That, my friends, is the question I will answer in a moment. My first comment is to those who harp on the negative aspects of illegal recreational drugs. I could go on and on about people who have been affected by the legal recreational narcotic: (defined as: agents that benumb or deaden, causing loss of feeling or paralysis; Wikipedia) Alcohol. But i won't bore you with statistics of alcohol related fatalities and illnesses, nor will i bore you with the stories of self destructive behaviors of alcoholics. Further more, alcohol is a depressant, which lowers your vibration, awareness, and overall state of being.

Like alcohol, I also stay away from prescription drugs as much as possible. I've found that most of these drugs are designed to suppress the symptoms a person is experiencing, rather than actually cure the source of the symptom; antibiotics excluded.

Back to the question: is there a stronger awakening rate with people who use drugs? To say it differently, do mind altering drugs increase the chances of a spiritual awakening? For now, I'll define spiritual awakening as the ability to perceive reality--true reality not materiality--without the most common sensory receptors: sight, sound, touch, taste, and smell.

Rather than going through a list of unhealthy, when overused, illegal recreational narcotics, I'll focus my attention on marijuana--which is considered to be a depressant, stimulant, and hallucinogen.

Anyone who has used Mary (which I'll refer to as a woman, since she was bore from mother earth) for a long period of time knows the calming effect she can have on you. Your mind isn't so cluttered with uncontrollable thoughts, fears, and projections of the past or future; your mind is, for the most part, quiet. Similar to the intent behind meditation, though i am no way invoking the idea that one should smoke Mary instead of meditate. however, most of us in the US have never even tried to meditate, and, consequently not many people would have the basis to compare to two anyhow.

The mind is quiet; it is when this happens that the consciousness is better apt to reconnect with it's source resulting in what some may call: the beginning of a long process of becoming spiritually awake. I have no doubt that Mary, and perhaps other illegal narcotics, can aid in the awakening process.

Please keep in mind that no one needs drugs to become spiritually awake, and I in no way advise against nor for their use. That's a matter of subjective opinion, and well--I'm not your daddy--you make your own choices. One merely has to open his mind enough to be receptive to the answers he seeks.

[Atma]

Well,it's O.K. for you not to like us babbling about damage inflicted by abuse of any kind of drug,but it does relate to the subject becouse many young people do drugs influenced by media and (in my opinion) misleading teachers.
The fact is that drugs can and do open doors to the astral plane,and those practices are done by Crowley's O.T.O. and A:A: and other libertine (read demonic) organisations.Yes,they do get effects,but do you really want them like that? And you never know what kind of dwellers you will find on the astral plane,you can get damaged trying to go there-with or without drugs!I'm not saying that you are a satanist if you do drugs in search for higher consciousness,but you're definitely off the right track.
If you want the real thing forget dope completely,no spiritual teacher of light (the Right-hand path as it is called) of whatever level of realisation will recommend drugging and twisting your physical apparatus which needs to be free for spiritual impression.Of course,not a lot of people are able to get subtle contacts, even less divine ecstasy and they get dissapointed and quit.Well,it's not their right time/life,but you need to sanely push your practices till the last minute-it comes in handy next time!

[dmobfuscation]

“I'm not saying that you are a satanist if you do drugs in search for higher consciousness,but you're definitely off the right track.”

Atma, no, but you are certainly leading a psychological path to that assumption by the reader. Which, I only can reply to ask, what is the so-called right-track? Or more appropriately, in relation to stroodle’s question, do you feel smoking marijuana help as a catalyst to the beginning of one’s personal spiritual transformation?

Personally, I will only relate marijuana to this post, per to topic of this thread. I’m not making any argument about the usage of “speed, or coke, or other types of uppers used on greyhounds and racehorses,” (Uplift) as those do not compare.

Marijuana, in the United States, is illegal for a couple of base reasons. Why it became illegal is mostly attributed to many efforts by Harry J. Anslinger. However it cannot be overlooked that the hemp industry had a perverse effect on the legislation that was put in place as a framework for the “War on Drugs”. (Hemp products of the time were far more economically sound than most of the other products coming from the textile industry.)

In present day, marijuana stays illegal for the base purpose that even the average user will at some point in time, severely abuse it. However the other detrimental effects of marijuana are largely acceptable for infusion with a society that sells cigarettes and prescription drugs as if it were candy.

Marijuana, like any drugs, will expand certain sensations while limiting others for the period of time it’s used. For example although you may have a slightly slower reaction time due to the essential fact your thought process is skewered vs. your normal reality, perhaps you are also an avid speeder who now more closely follows the speed limit. Marijuana is near-completely different from many other drugs such as coke, heroin, nicotine, lsd, alcohol, acid, highly-abused prescription and over-the-counter pills, meth etc etc.

With that said, if you mind is open and believing and receptive to the idea of a spiritual awakening, it’s possible that by using marijuana you could receive some sort of psychological vision, awakening, realization, understanding or some other though-process change.


Some links for those who like to read (may or may not support my personal opinion) :

National Institute of Health:
Workshop on the Medical Utility of Marijuana

Wikipedia:
Harry J. Anslinger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Legal history of marijuana in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NORML
Driving and Marijuana - NORML
Marijuana and Driving: A Review of the Scientific Evidence - NORML

-d.m

[Atma]

Maybe I should've gone with the "softer" (miss)guides like Timothy Leary and Carlos Castaneda,I don't want to freak anybody out.People are doing drugs becouse they feel good,that's a fact, mostly not related to any deeper search.Those who are influenced by psychodelic,shamanistic and similar views are sincerely trying to go beyond ordinary consciousness and they can get results in lower psychism (lower siddhis as it is called).Whatever drug you're using for whatever purpose,and we don't have to list them (LSD and acid are the same thing,but nevermind), you're just experiencing the so-called astral spheres-at best.As for weed,in extreme cases it can do more damage to your mental health than smack.I've done the whole lot for a longer period,and I'm against the use of any stimulans with purpose of "expanding" consciousness,when in fact you are blocking true spiritual energies which reach you via etheric body and centers.As I said,there are not many who are thrown into this life with predisposition for a deeper spititual experience,but every effort counts and is recorded.So,the right track would be a non-blurred brain,spiritual study and practice, altruistic service and healthy living

[Maguru]

I was 43yrs old when I first tried pot. I was a binge drinker at the time. (Pissed every weekend.) I had a few bad experiences with the pot like paranoia, feeling ugly, etc., but I was aware and observing the effects as well as experiencing.
The first great experience I had when stoned, was through music. Listening to the Rolling Stones in fact. Tee hee That may explain it all. Only joking. I have always loved music but it was as though I was hearing it for the first time. In fact I was. I was hearing every instrument, every chord, every beat. It was as though I was a part of the ochestra\band\song and fully engaged with it.
To cut a long story short, I haven't drank for several years but I still smoke pot. I believe I swapped one drug for a safer alternative, but I don't enjoy being an addict. However, has marjuana been instrumental in my spiritual awakening? I have to say Yes.

[Atma]

I had a few bad experiences with the pot like paranoia, feeling ugly, etc.,

This is one of the things I was talking about

I believe I swapped one drug for a safer alternative, but I don't enjoy being an addict. However, has marjuana been instrumental in my spiritual awakening? I have to say Yes.

But I don't know how can it be called safer,if you can end up on antipsycotics,and with all do respect,you did not have a true spiritual experience,just a trip (which can be good or bad).But the fact is that experiences with drugs-nice or disasterous, can open you to start the search in spirituality.

[stroodle]

Originally Posted by Atma

you did not have a true spiritual experience,just a trip

so then what is a true spiritual experience?

because when i get high it puts me back in a state of mind where i feel more aware of life and i feel connected to everything. i am reminded of how there are various levels to consciousness - and when i am not high, it is easy to slip away from that awareness and go back to just being a part of the system, as opposed to being aware of the whole system.

[Atma]

But the fact is that experiences with drugs-nice or disasterous, can open you to start the search in spirituality

I'm quoting myself to show you that I acknowledge the positive effect that both sides of drug experience can have in showing us the existance of higher consciousness within us and all around us.But the real spirituality is toxin free and it takes lives and lives to start experiencing "divine high",the energy of your soul.It's a process of evolution in which dormant braincells get awakend (we only use a few procents of our brain),etheric centers and also Pineal gland and Pituitary body,the glands which create the third eye.Of course, there's a lot more to it,and we are thrown into this world with a predestined role to play.We only act as co-creators,and this spinning around is a beautiful and also scary thing.We need to be on guard with our own bad habits becouse we accumulate negative points,and drug abuse is certanly adding to our negative account.You don't have to lose it from drugs (as many do) but just becouse it feels O.K. it doesn't make it O.K.,there are many traps for the senses on this planet.

[Namaste]

Originally Posted by stroodle

so then what is a true spiritual experience?

That's what I'm wondering as well. If you are only experiencing it when you're high, is it really that... enlightening?

You say: "I got awakened... and then just went back to my old boring life." Doesn't sound like a true awakening/enlightment to me. I think when people talk of such experiences, it more along the lines of "I got enlightened... and my life was never the same again."

In other words, you move to a new plane of consciousness and understanding and that change is permanent. Or at least it does not need an outside force to switch it on again.

[stroodle]

oh i definately have been changed for good, that is certain

however, i find that when i get high it just increases my ability to see the world in this new light.

i can do this exact same thing when sober....i just think my mind is more open when i'm high and if anything, it makes it easier to grasp everything.

[Maguru]

Every human experience is valid, whether it is judged a 'trip' or a spiritual experience. Whether the experience is deemed weird, unreal, psychotic, drug induced or spiritual, it is being experienced as only a human can. Even if the experience is all in the imagination and the information is false, it is still a human experience.
Once the experience has passed, it is up to the experiencer to decide what it means and how they are affected by it. I also believe some minds cannot take responsibilty and control and it can become a problem. I cannot speak for heavier drugs at all. It upsets me greatly to see our youth living for the drugs alone but the problem there lies with society.
However, speaking for myself, pot smoking has been far less harmful than alcohol and without a doubt has expanded my consciousness and understanding of self and life. Amen to that

[Atma]

However, speaking for myself, pot smoking has been far less harmful than alcohol and without a doubt has expanded my consciousness and understanding of self and life.

As I said,it can show you that there exist another dimensions of our being, no matter if that experience is pleasant (as it is for majority) or shattering, but other indulgence in sensual experiences (that's what smoking pot is) and life's by-paths can also awaken us to start the search.
Try this link from organisation for legalisation:
Cannabis Use and Psychosis
Free your mind-clean!

[karlos768]

well, i have to agree with stroodle and maguru.

Atma, i have not looked at the cannabis-psychosis link YET, but have experienced it for myself, however i also retained enough strength of mind to overcome it and that was at the age of 17 after not smoking for 1.5 years due to psychosis / a psychotic episode. So i dont belive it to be a be all end all situation, unlike schizophrenia.

I am also sickened by the wide use of marajuana amongst young people in society because i would not like anybody to experience what i went through.

I also think there are many others factors that contribute to the extreme devastating affects of maraujana use in SOME young people, such as genetic factors, i.e being prone to schizophrenia, psychosis or watever, traumatising experieneces and so on so forth but dont belive canabis is to blame.and dont belive it should even be outlawed. my personal belief is that it should be legalised and controlled with class a consequenes for under 18's.

but back to the point, Yes i whole heartedly belive that cannabis, can instigate a spiritual awakening but furthermore leads to a permanent spiritual change amoungst SOME people.

I would also like to ad i am on day 17 of a 30 day cannabis free period and no matter what i am going to have a smoke at the end of it, i was a bit hesitant about smoking again as i have changed and grown for the better once more, but after reading this thread i can rest knowing that i will not be addicted again and that it is probably good for your mind, to have a smoke once in a while, although i strongly reccomend a 30 break for any weed smoker as i belive you will appreciate and respect the drug more and also hopefully not lose your marbles.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread and thats all i have to say on the matter im not arrrogant but belive im right in this case, if that is'nt to much off a contradiction, lol.

peace too you all and let the good times ROLL

[Fidel]

Great thread, some really enlightening thought here both pro and con pot.

Here's the best quote I've ever read about marijuana by Chrissie Hynde of the Pretenders:

"Whatever I'm already doing becomes enhanced when I smoke pot. It can also be demotivating, because if I'm not doing anything and I smoke a joint, it enhances just sitting in a chair. Then I don't even want to get up to change a record. That might not be a bad thing, but you have to get things done once in a while."

Personally I still smoke pretty regularly, but I think the 30 day fast from weed is a wonderful idea, I do it often.

[danielle awakens]

hi im new to all this and would like to say hello, to all, have been reading alot of what has been said out here, great stuff, a little confusing at first , but im here to learn and grow....hope to chat more, get to know u all....have a great day