Conflict between desire and spirituality

[ExploringTheMatrix]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

The one state is another illusion perpetuated by beliefs.

I am I, and will never merge with you.

You are you, and will never merge with me.

How can this be? Right now infinitethoughts is an idea in my head, a concept built up from reading multiple posts on these forums.

If in turn, I met you in real life, I would be experiencing something that my mind would label as a person. I wouldn't even know whether you are infinitethoughts until you told me, and even then I'd have no idea whether you are who you say you are. You could be a cleverly disguised impostor

I and You are creations. I is one of the most fundamental, awareness shouts "I am", but awareness exists without it. You and I only exist in the mind.

How could I distinguish between a lucid dream in which you appear and this reality right now? I have no way of knowing whether your I is present in one but not the other.

I'm willing to allow for doubt that others may exist and I've got it all wrong, but certainty seems like a stretch.

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

So you think when you die you disappear?

We have never appeared in reality in the first place.

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

The one state is another illusion perpetuated by beliefs.
I am I, and will never merge with you.
You are you, and will never merge with me.

I was wrong. We do not agree at all then.


Everything here in non-reality is I. That is I not I.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

I am I, and will never merge with you. You are you, and will never merge with me.

Actually there is no you, it's all me

Seriously the conflict between desire and spirituality can only exist if we consider we are either physical or spiritual, we're actually both at the same time, there is no seperation. What's interesting is that because we can use the five senses to verify physicality, we consider that is the primary being, but as reality and physicality is a created thing, then the true primary source and the source of creation must be consciousness.

The trick is to accept both, to be creator and created, observer and observation.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by ExploringTheMatrix

I'm willing to allow for doubt that others may exist.

"Others exist" and each one has their own universe.
Such is the nature of infinity.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Groundless

We have never appeared in reality in the first place.

You're here now.
You exist.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Groundless

I was wrong. We do not agree at all then.


Everything here in non-reality is I. That is I not I.

Of course we never agreed.
Because you're creating separation where none exists.

There is no "bigger" I and a "smaller" I.
False religious teachings.

You are you and you will never "die".

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Actually there is no you, it's all me

Agent Smith ?!!

[Akashic_Librarian]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

"Others exist" and each one has their own universe.
Such is the nature of infinity.

Well said.

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

Of course we never agreed.
Because you're creating separation where none exists.

There is no "bigger" I and a "smaller" I.
False religious teachings.

You are you and you will never "die".

There is no seperation. There is no here or there.

It appears I did not communicate with you well enough.

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Groundless

There is no seperation. There is no here or there.

It appears I did not communicate with you well enough.

There is a here.....you are in a "here".
Otherwise you wouldn't be communicating with me thru this forum.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

"Others exist" and each one has their own universe.
Such is the nature of infinity.

It's interesting to note how persistant the creations of consciousness are in maintaining the illusion of seperate beings.

People are real as the observer is real, but people are not consciousness, people are perception, consciousness observes the perception through one observer, there are not multiple observers.

We will continue to agree to disagree, such is the nature of the perception

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Max Power

consciousness observes the perception through one observer, there are not multiple observers.

But there are multiple observers.

You're an observer.........as am I.

[ExploringTheMatrix]

Originally Posted by Max Power

It's interesting to note how persistant the creations of consciousness are in maintaining the illusion of seperate beings.

People are real as the observer is real, but people are not consciousness, people are perception, consciousness observes the perception through one observer, there are not multiple observers.

We will continue to agree to disagree, such is the nature of the perception

You just haven't gotten good enough to create/maintain two containers yet. Don't deny your creative capabilities. Believe in bilocationality and it becomes possible. All of these things you read about in spiritual books are potential experiences you could have, why limit yourself to one particular avenue.

Likewise, I consider it more useful to believe that I am awareness, wrapped up in a spiritual body, wrapped up in a human body. Gives you more freedom, the ability to persist and maintain continuity after body death. Plus neat capabilities like 360 plus up/down vision.

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by ExploringTheMatrix

You just haven't gotten good enough to create/maintain two containers yet. Don't deny your creative capabilities. Believe in bilocationality and it becomes possible.

I believe in the unilocality of the infinite source which we all are or infinitelocality.

[ExploringTheMatrix]

Care to elaborate on what you mean? Those are terms that I haven't heard before. Or is this something that must be experienced?

FWIW, there's a story that Ramana Maharshi was meditating when one of his students had the thought that he'd like to talk to him. Apparently Maharshi was drawn up from his location and appeared to the student. So something along these lines should be possible.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by ExploringTheMatrix

You just haven't gotten good enough to create/maintain two containers yet. Don't deny your creative capabilities. Believe in bilocationality and it becomes possible. All of these things you read about in spiritual books are potential experiences you could have, why limit yourself to one particular avenue.

Likewise, I consider it more useful to believe that I am awareness, wrapped up in a spiritual body, wrapped up in a human body. Gives you more freedom, the ability to persist and maintain continuity after body death. Plus neat capabilities like 360 plus up/down vision.

Creating two containers is like saying there are multiple consciousness's, it's denying there is only one, for fear of being the only thing that exists. I'm trying to simplify, not complicate. Wrapped up in this, wrapped up in that, it creates too many completely unecessary avenues of theory that layer doubt and confusion on top of itself to justify intelligence.

I don't wish to be smart enough for that

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Creating two containers is like saying there are multiple consciousness's, it's denying there is only one.

There is no one consciousness, but there is one backdrop, which provides the backdrop for all these awareness's.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

There is no one consciousness, but there is one backdrop, which provides the backdrop for all these awareness's.

There is only one consciousness, but it's clever enough to create the illusion of denial that there seems to be more than one. Also the illusion is more of a problem with definition. People think because they are singular, but there are multiples of them, that means consciousness is the same.

There is only one source of everything, everything stems from one place, one space, one consciousness. Consciousness creates people, not the other way around. Not everyone will consider this, because again consciousness wants to experience everything.

Max