How many believe in God

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Chinese Dragon

I'm sorry to say, but yes it does. Science is about obtaining knowledge by using the scientific method. And guess what, theories are formed by using... wait for it... the scientific method. Even if the definition of science doesn't actually come out and say those things doesn't mean the scientific method doesn't imply them.

There is a difference between implication and confirmation. The lack of data supporting a confirmation is the reason those theories are often incomplete. So where is the flaw in a process which produces theories which acknowledges their limits? To say there is a contradiction between unconfirmed implications of theories is a flaw in science is the same as saying that someone who says 2 + 2 = 5 has found a flaw in mathematics.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Chinese Dragon

There's no downside to believing in God, but a probable upside. Who wouldn't take a chance like that?

Are you going to continue repeating Pascal's Wager until time immemorial?

Downside 1: Sacrificing personal power in service to a supposedly, and unconfirmed, higher power.

Downside 2: Believing in something you know nothing about.

I can probably think of a few more, but those will do.

Originally Posted by Chinese Dragon

Science is about obtaining knowledge by using the scientific method. And guess what, theories are formed by using... wait for it... the scientific method.

I'm curious. Can you explain the history of the Big Bang Theory, or the Law of Conservation of Energy?

Originally Posted by Chinese Dragon

Yes, that is why I give myself a solid definition of God.

Which is?

[Maguru]

It seems there are two different perceptions here, coming from completely different perspectives. One is physical and the other spiritual. Could they both be correct as they are two sides of the same coin?

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Are you going to continue repeating Pascal's Wager until time immemorial?

Downside 1: Sacrificing personal power in service to a supposedly, and unconfirmed, higher power.

Downside 2: Believing in something you know nothing about.

I can probably think of a few more, but those will do.



I'm curious. Can you explain the history of the Big Bang Theory, or the Law of Conservation of Energy?



Which is?

[songwriter]

Well, Science before trying to prove the existence of a entity that created the universe would have to know what's the universe. We don't know the end or the beginning of time and space or we don't have proofs about it. And even we hardly imagine we could understand a possible proven example.

"Okey, that's was the beginning, what before?" "That's the end, what's outside, then?". Science is lost like a newborn baby in these topics. Even human brain is lost, I think.

Before believing in a entity creator of the universe... I have to believe in the universe so know what it is. And I don't know what it is. Space and time, you know...

So well, possibly there's an "entity" behind it (or around it), well the universe it's an entity itself...

"And the Universe said Let there be light and there was light".

So in the end what the heck is the Universe, God. I don't know. I don't believe but I don't deny any explanation.

But I believe that if one day we understand where we are, etc. it would be a huge advance. What kind of knowing we have if we don't know what Universe is. For instance, Einstein theories about physics and quantums and etc. lead to today's technology with laser, nuclear, mobiles, internet, etc.

Just knowing what's inside the atoms leads to huge advances in knowledge.
There's a giant device in Europe prepared to soon go even further than we know now about quantums, when we'll know we'll change.

[cbreeze]

much like MPower said, i, too, believe we are a projection of consciousness. HOWEVER, today i arrived from an eight hour drive to CA - and during this trip, strife with personal challenges left behind for some R&R, I was bombarded unusually by ppl; friends and strangers handed verbally and written prayers w/o me brining up god, and then remarkably see 11:11 on clocks enough for me to ponder... then on drive back, god written on cars' accumulated dust, stickers, etc. It was outside of the norm to see all these symbols. makes me want to go 'hmmmmm'.

[remac]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Are you going to continue repeating Pascal's Wager until time immemorial?

Downside 1: Sacrificing personal power in service to a supposedly, and unconfirmed, higher power.

Downside 2: Believing in something you know nothing about.

I can probably think of a few more, but those will do.



I'm curious. Can you explain the history of the Big Bang Theory, or the Law of Conservation of Energy?



Which is?

The existence of the Higher Power has been confirmed by the testimony of millions. We cannot surrender power to this Higher Power that we do not already have. If I give myself in service I am really surrendering nothing, just acknowledging the real truth of my being - i.e. that I am a very finite individual whose future is in the hands of forces over which I have no control by myself.

To believe in God is not to believe in something I know nothing about. I actually know quite a bit about God. So do a lot of people.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by remac

The existence of the Higher Power has been confirmed by the testimony of millions.

That's true. And they're all wrong. I said so.

Originally Posted by remac

We cannot surrender power to this Higher Power that we do not already have.

Correct. The implication, therefore, is that you DID have power. And, by the way, you did.

Originally Posted by remac

that I am a very finite individual whose future is in the hands of forces over which I have no control by myself.

God is an unnecessary fiction for the acceptance of this "real truth". Notice that you said it without even using "God".

Originally Posted by remac

To believe in God is not to believe in something I know nothing about. I actually know quite a bit about God. So do a lot of people.

So do I. I believe in God. But I'm fairly certain your God is not my God.

[Maguru]

My god understands me. My god answers all my questions. My god doesn't mind when I call him eric. My god always tells the truth. My god doesn't judge me. My god is the buffer for my anger and my sadness. My god is never impatient with me. My god has a wicked sense of humour. My god never tells me what do. My god asks me what I would like to do. My god always agrees with me even when I am wrong. My god knows I'll get it later.
My god would never punish me. My god would never reward me either.

I saved best til last. My god gives me everything my heart desires.

[Asmoday]

Ahem. To quote Riddick from Pitch Black:

"I absolutely believe there is a God, and I absolutely hate the f**ker."

No, seriously, I don't know for sure (then again, if you didn't, it wouldn't be faith), but overall I consider the question irrelevant.

[Erki]

I don't have a god. I have a goddess. At least (hopefully) I will have one.

[Chado2423]

I used to believe in God, until God stopped helping me.

(what to do if you tell the truth, but people don't believe you?)

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

I used to believe in God, until God stopped helping me.

(what to do if you tell the truth, but people don't believe you?)

So "God" used to help you, but now he doesn't? Care to elaborate a little?

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by fellowtraveler

So "God" used to help you, but now he doesn't? Care to elaborate a little?

if you want elaboration... all you have to do is search the forums for my posts...

but the basics: he hasn't helped me beat my depression, he hasn't given me any clear cut answers as to what to do in my situation even though I prayed for wisdom in the matter for two years... He hasn't helped me to move on after my break-up... as a matter of fact he hasn't helped me to know without a doubt which is the right way to go, which is the correct thing to do, to try to reconcile with my ex in some fashion, or to move on. He's left me feeling very lost and confused even though I repented. There is no God. God is dead to me now. Or at least if there is a God, he doesn't give a **** about me anymore.

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

if you want elaboration... all you have to do is search the forums for my posts...

OK, chado...I will do that.

I assume that if there are a lot of posts, that others much more wise than I have already had an opportunity to discuss this with you. But I will certainly go and read.

I do know that if you've read very many of the posts in most of the sections, you've read what you probably need already.

I know pep talks won't help. Been there. My son has been psychotic and clinically depressed since this time last year - he's getting better now mostly due to the judicious use of the right drugs. I'm not saying that is your route...just relaying my experience.

May you find peace, and I mean right here on earth, right now. I'll be back.

[dimitry781]

I am an agnostic. I just do not feel/experience His existence! Though I also cannot be sure that He does not exist. Even though if someone could prove that God exists or disprove, that would not change my life at all.

[fellowtraveler]

Originally Posted by dimitry781

I am an agnostic. I just do not feel/experience His existence! Though I also cannot be sure that He does not exist. Even though if someone could prove that God exists or disprove, that would not change my life at all.

It's for you to decide.

My real awakening came just a few months ago. Someone told me that I get to choose what I believe. It worked. But I walked through fire for many years myself. Keep walking.

Edit: Excuse me, dimitry - I was careless and asumed I was answering Chado again. You of course are welcome to your belief system. I suspect that if whatever it is doesn't cause you distress, then it doesn't matter for you anyway. There's a lot of room for maneuvering in this reality of ours.

[Erock]

I just had my philosophy mid-term, which I studied really hard for and did poorly on, so here is Anselm's proof of god (straight from memorization I might add):

1. God is defined as greater than anything conceived.
2. God exists as an idea
3. An idea that also has reality is greater than just an idea
4. God must have reality because it is greater than any idea.
5. Therefore god exists.

Although I'm not really into logical proofs, it's still interesting. Basically the way I see it is that we are the ultimate proof of god. If we were not here to think about it/observe it, god wouldn't exist.

Erock

[Fish]

Neither would the flying spaghetti monster.

[JoeGoldfarb]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

How many on here believe in God, Im not talking about the christian god but if ou believe in him thats ok too.

Just want to see how many believe the universe was made by a supreme being after all the SR and Matrix talk that has been around here.


Personally I believe God is ALL, nothing can be seperate from God. I believe we can be one with this God when all illusionary seperation dissapears (enlightenment).
I think all is divine and love. So basically even the ants that crawls in the ground , bites you and annoys the ************ out of you is divine and has as much right as you to live. Ofcourse this is going extreme but killing any life form with out itbeing nessascary is wrong I think

ohhh.. matrix and SR talk around here? nice

the matrix is divine.
God is the matrix.
all things within the matrix are a part of God.

God is one language to discribe the universe.
SR is another way.
Both are the same.
Holla and Hello are the same.

[JoeGoldfarb]

Originally Posted by Erock

I just had my philosophy mid-term, which I studied really hard for and did poorly on, so here is Anselm's proof of god (straight from memorization I might add):

1. God is defined as greater than anything conceived.
2. God exists as an idea
3. An idea that also has reality is greater than just an idea
4. God must have reality because it is greater than any idea.
5. Therefore god exists.

Although I'm not really into logical proofs, it's still interesting. Basically the way I see it is that we are the ultimate proof of god. If we were not here to think about it/observe it, god wouldn't exist.

Erock

1. sure
2. ideas exist? if they do, in the form of electricity in the brain then...
3. all ideas are reality. therefore,
4. the idea of God is electricity in the brain.
5. therefore God exists.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Erock

I just had my philosophy mid-term, which I studied really hard for and did poorly on, so here is Anselm's proof of god (straight from memorization I might add):

1. God is defined as greater than anything conceived.
2. God exists as an idea
3. An idea that also has reality is greater than just an idea
4. God must have reality because it is greater than any idea.
5. Therefore god exists.

Although I'm not really into logical proofs, it's still interesting. Basically the way I see it is that we are the ultimate proof of god. If we were not here to think about it/observe it, god wouldn't exist.

Erock

This proof is similar to zeno's paradoxes. They seem sound, logically, but the reality is ludicrous. Of course proving God's existence through logic doesn't seem as ludicrous to some people as never being able to catch up to something moving slower than you.

One issue is that it compares something that exists in reality with a concept which isn't existent. But something real and something conceptual are two entirely different entities, so such a comparison is invalid. So if we look a little closer at 3, the idea which has reality is proposed as inferior to the idea alone, however there is no real way of comparing the two.

But an even simpler way of refuting the argument as you've stated it is to point out that if (1) is true, (2) can't be. If God is greater than anything conceived, then God cannot be conceived. So even if a thing which exists is greater than the idea of the thing that exists, that thing cannot be God.

[Cantando]

We either believe or disbelieve in God depending on the definition we use for God.
Personally, I believe that if there was no God, then I wouldn't be conscious.
If am conscious and that consciousness is connected to, and part of, the consciousness of others, then I would define that all encompassing consciousness from which emanates all creation and all worlds as God.

[Michael Chui]

I would love to see Anselm's formula for quantifying the greatness of ideas.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Cantando

We either believe or disbelieve in God depending on the definition we use for God.
Personally, I believe that if there was no God, then I wouldn't be conscious.
If am conscious and that consciousness is connected to, and part of, the consciousness of others, then I would define that all encompassing consciousness from which emanates all creation and all worlds as God.

A question to ponder ... at which point, do 'you' end, and 'god' begins ...

Jamie.

[JoeGoldfarb]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

But an even simpler way of refuting the argument as you've stated it is to point out that if (1) is true, (2) can't be. If God is greater than anything conceived, then God cannot be conceived.

bravo man! bravo!
you are brilliant or well schooled. either way, respectable

here is a question: is an idea real?

[fellowtraveler]

LOL. Sad-funny. A person, clearly reaching out in pain, bumps this thread, and people begin discussing philosophy, logic, debating the existence of God (which is one of the most sophomoric pursuits conceivable).

Sometimes this place reminds me of a Mensa meeting.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Jamie

A question to ponder ... at which point, do 'you' end, and 'god' begins ...

Jamie.

That's a good question.

I don't think the 'you' ever ends. Whatever happens to us in the future, I believe each of us will always have a sense of our own unique identity.

We can expand our awareness in consciousness as much as we want, but whether we can expand it enough to be able to one day say, "Now I am conscious as God, I am God", is debatable.

Perhaps, the fact that we have a sense of unique identity is the limiting factor to being totally conscious as God.

But, perhaps, also, there already have been some saintly people who have foregone their sense of personal identity, resulting in a total, final and permanent merging with God/All Consciousness.

[joecooool]

im an atheist, i lack the belief in god, because i have yet to hear one reason to support the claim that a god exists, that i cant easily refute.

god might exist.

big foot might exist.

do you believe in big foot? no, ok now you know my position on god.

[bellemeadows]

By nature, all beliefs for or against God are opinions.

My belief is in a completely non-dual God; and the closest representation of that belief system is probably expressed in Hinduism. ACIM and Buddhism display a similar focus on non-duality. I like E. Tolle as well. Yet, all in all, my belief in God takes more from the experience I've had with God, than in others' opinions or beliefs about God.

That is why, in this matter, I always suggest people follow their hearts.

It seems to me that any description of God that is in words is using symbols of concepts to describe what is beyond concept to begin with. Where God becomes real to me is in the experience, not in concepts. So to my mind, that makes debating over God a waste of time. Yet we humans do love a good debate.

Enjoy, Belle

[Jcs]

I usually get quite aggressive in defending my point . Trying to cut back on it every day. Now I do respect everyone's decision to believe (or not) in any kind of God or Creator. I think there is some-kind of 'Creator'. But I don't lose sight of the fact that it is a believe. Which a lot of people tend to do.