How many believe in God

[dragonfly183]

i believe i am god, and you are god, and my animals are god, and the trees outside and the ground i walk on and the air i breath are god. i see anything as being part of a universal entity that we are apart of. when we pass on we simply change to something else within that same universal entity.

[ticktockclok]

Originally Posted by dragonfly183

i believe i am god, and you are god, and my animals are god, and the trees outside and the ground i walk on and the air i breath are god. i see anything as being part of a universal entity that we are apart of. when we pass on we simply change to something else within that same universal entity.

I think you're mistaking "god" for matter.

[beautyscientist]

To go right back to the original question - posts on here seem to be about 50:50. So it would seem that about half of us are believers, slightly more than in the population at large.

[lemmex]

I think most of mankind believes in a GOD, albeit defined, simply natural of society and cultures to do so with God taking on that personality. What make GOD God are the attachments we give it, don't you think. I have faith there is a Divine Creator undefined by the word we use.

[Maguru]

Every description of god I hear is completely within the speakers imagination. I hear god is love, god is divine, god is everything. In that case, god is fear, god is evil, god is nothing. There are no exceptions in everything.
We humans complicate the issues beyond belief. I have found that what I want to believe about god and my experience with god are two different things.
The god I believe in does not contain human attributes, especially not the one of judgement. All the speculation surrounding the bible are nothing but judgements. The god I believe in contains only truth. The god I believe in is the source of change. The power of change. The core of change. The unstoppable force that cannot be other than itself.
Pretty simple this way and the concept does bring some peace of mind.

[beautyscientist]

Originally Posted by lemmex

I think most of mankind believes in a GOD, albeit defined, simply natural of society and cultures to do so with God taking on that personality. What make GOD God are the attachments we give it, don't you think. I have faith there is a Divine Creator undefined by the word we use.

I think belief in God is a minority with regard to Mankind as a whole. It is particularly low in Northern Europe where I live. The figure sometimes quoted is 15%, but I think that is an overestimate. For some reason or other it has been abnormally high in the US over the last couple of decades.

The general trend is downwards everywhere.

[Lychee]

I can physically sense the laws of the universe. Nothing humans sense is anything more than perception of the "effects" of things--but that doesn't make our knowledge worthless or unrelated to truth.

Causes and effects are just human labels for one thing that seems to consistently precede another. I don't think there's a fundamental difference between them that exists "out there."

You cannot see the very governing property of the universe. You are seeing the effect. I don't see any pillars holding up the sky, yet there are invisible "pillars" which is holding up the atmosphere. What is this invisible force which can be measured, but not seen?

No, no human could have made this universe. But the alternative is not "God made it," but "the laws of the universe caused things to be this way."

But why? What evidence is there that these laws are maintaining itself?

I don't have any reason to believe there is a creator of the world.

There's no reason to believe in anything else, either.

They serve the purpose of telling us what values we should look for and what values we should avoid. But those things are completely individual choices. People create the purpose of their own existence--and they need some idea of "good" and "bad" to guide their actions; but these ideas are different for every individual.

There isn't any purpose but the purpose you make for yourself.

Yes, but why should we look for certain values and why should we avoid other values?

Life is "just the way it is," but it also isn't. Although it is an unchangeable fact, it has explanations and things to discover. I don't think life is a closed book--it's an open one and we should read, read, read! But that doesn't mean that in the end there's any higher guide than ourselves to what should be done with ourselves. Questions of "is" are discovered, but questions of "ought" have to decided.

Life must always be read, of course. You are saying that there is no reason to believe in God, but you could also say that there is also no reason to believe that life is just the what it is.

I don't think "applying meaning to things at all results in there being ultimately no meaning." I think there would be ultimately no meaning if you had to look further and further back indefinitely to find the deepest meaning, cause, or truth. Because there is a deepest meaning.

I think what you mean is that if you read to the very cause or the very truth, you won't find the precursor to it so in the end, the only meaning would be the cause. Am I right?

We should accept what they are, good or bad, and act accordingly! All I mean is there is no sense denying the existence or the nature of anything. People die. People do things that harmful to you and your values. Do something about it!

But why? Who cares if people die and how they die or what they die for if there is no meaning to death at all? Death would be meaningless and the laws which you believe are just as they are would have no purpose. You've excluded the possibility of God based solely on your belief that laws are as they are. But how do you know they are as they are? What evidence is there - something which cannot be argued - that there is nothing more or no God?

The god I believe in does not contain human attributes, especially not the one of judgement. All the speculation surrounding the bible are nothing but judgements. The god I believe in contains only truth.

God is all about truth, but we are not God. We have to have evidence to determine between what is truth and what is false. We judge to determine what is truth and what is false. So if someone is acting truthfully, aligning himself to God, while the other is acting falsely, not aligning itself with God, how can the two people be considered equal? God is the creator and maintainer of Good. Anything that goes against Good in this life results in negative consequences. It is only logical to assume that there are negative consequences for people who act against Law, too.

[Old Soul]

Some poor, uneducated, old woman living in Eastern Europe who knows about pain and suffering is undoubtedly, in my view, a lot closer to God than any theoretician, philosopher or so called 'enlightened' individual.

I picked up this old paper back at a yard sale, it was called "Jesus In Bad Company" , it reads a view of Jesus as to how I see Jesus, in that you would not necessarily find him with the proud and self sufficant ones of the world, those who had no need of God but those who did* need him.... and that the self righteous would look at the downtrodden of the world and finally see* and say yeah!! Christ is with them..... I see this now

that is not to say that he is exclusive to one group as he is not... but that those who know their spiritual poverty know God...... that is where he is found

[Old Soul]

How many on here believe in God, Im not talking about the christian god but if ou believe in him thats ok too.

I believe in God, although I do look to Jesus to understand him, I part company on some christian beliefs taught me (ie the church doctrines) as a child and as an adult
but never the less I do believe in God.... I tend to see Jesus from different views ...... and they are subject to change from time to time

[Old Soul]

SO basically I'm saying, there's no point in arguing if god exists,

Agreed!!! I don't understand why God has become an argument we all have to win, no one earns more piety or knowledge by the pew we might sit in

maybe if we all stopped telling God who he is or was or will be... he will just BE ... lol

[Max Power]

Imagine if we all believed the same thing, how boring would that be?

I could never buy the god model, I always found it placed too much emphasis outside of myself, I've a very selfish version of consciousness

[DaveTyler]

Max Power we must have been arguing more than anyone on this forum

Take a look at this and tell me what you think, I think itll satisfy your vision:
YouTube - God exists!


haha just kidding that person is obviously smoking some crack

This one is better: atleast his arguements is good

YouTube - DOES GOD EXIST? STARTLING PROOFS


ofcourse this person is christian and I dont believe in that explaination but yea u get the idea... his arguements is good except when he starts saying hell is forever and that ur ************ed if u dont accept jesus Lol.

[ticktockclok]

I wouldn't mind the number of theists out there if they didn't stop science, peace, and freedom.

[AidanMatthews216]

Originally Posted by Lychee

You cannot see the very governing property of the universe. You are seeing the effect. I don't see any pillars holding up the sky, yet there are invisible "pillars" which is holding up the atmosphere. What is this invisible force which can be measured, but not seen?

Seeing is measuring. If I cannot see the properties of the universe because I can only see their effects, than I can also not see the room I'm sitting in, but only its effects. Humans can only observe effects, but that doesn't negate the fact that they're ultimately observing the world "out there." If you can't see something which is immediately in front of you it's only because you can't mine your observations for the correct information.

But why? What evidence is there that these laws are maintaining itself?

Plenty, but that isn't my point. The alternatives are not "man created it" or "God created it." That assumes everything needs a creator. Why?

There's no reason to believe in anything else, either.

When I can see something, I believe it.

Yes, but why should we look for certain values and why should we avoid other values?

Because we choose to.

Life must always be read, of course. You are saying that there is no reason to believe in God, but you could also say that there is also no reason to believe that life is just the what it is.

Everything is "just the way it is"... in a sense. If something exists, it exists unconditionally, whether you can see an explanation to it or not. I'm not sure how to put my thoughts on this into words, but this is my best shot...

I think what you mean is that if you read to the very cause or the very truth, you won't find the precursor to it so in the end, the only meaning would be the cause. Am I right?

Yes, basically.

But why? Who cares if people die and how they die or what they die for if there is no meaning to death at all? Death would be meaningless and the laws which you believe are just as they are would have no purpose. You've excluded the possibility of God based solely on your belief that laws are as they are. But how do you know they are as they are? What evidence is there - something which cannot be argued - that there is nothing more or no God?

I don't think life or death are meaningless without God... our human judgment gives them meaning. Even if they were a meaning offered to us "from above"... say in the form of a book or a religious prophet, wouldn't we have the choice to accept or reject it as the basis of our morality? Nothing is "good" in itself--only good according to our perspective.

God is all about truth, but we are not God. We have to have evidence to determine between what is truth and what is false. We judge to determine what is truth and what is false. So if someone is acting truthfully, aligning himself to God, while the other is acting falsely, not aligning itself with God, how can the two people be considered equal? God is the creator and maintainer of Good. Anything that goes against Good in this life results in negative consequences. It is only logical to assume that there are negative consequences for people who act against Law, too.

Negative consequences according to who?

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by DaveTyler

Max Power we must have been arguing more than anyone on this forum

Not arguing Dave, Integrating

[johnu]

I think that's a Houston (sp?) Smith quote. I love it when people try to logic the existence of God. I don't think we're using the right set of tools. It's amazing how many people have opinions about the ocean that have never been there. And once you're in it and wet with salt water up your nose, staring out at the horizon with no land in sight belief is irrelevant. So, I've had enough experience to convince me of a being that is beyond time and space that is purely coherent unbounded creativity and love. It is within us and surrounds and connects us. I don't know if that is God but I'll take it over being half asleep in a meat suit. But it could just be my underdeveloped hypothalamus talking.

[unique]

originally posted by Sunnybayes


I believe in God as in the feeling in your body and your mind that let you become a high concious individual because it keeps you from forming high level thought patterns in the upper layers of your hierarchy.

But my god is the physical feeling of good inside of you, that if and when you believe" in god, makes you "feel" physically good inside of your body when you think about the concept of God.

And I also define god as the feeling that happens in your body that allows your mind to take on a new belief system, and also the feeling that guides you to do things that can be labeled as moral. Also the force inside your body to always be curious about your environment thus the drive to always seeking "The Truth".

So I will argue that "believing in god", letting that feeling stay in you will let you become a strongly creative individual and lets you live a happy life because that feeling lets you stay "high concious" and always open to learning new things thus open to and always seeking the "Truth", and I've described that being creative is an awesomely fun process when you know how to do it right.

Cheers to Sunnybayes!This has been so far the best description about God.i.e.if u believe in one.

You actually saved my time and energy of describing my intuitive feeling.

God for me is the feeling of happiness,an energy which drives me thru every stage of my life.A feeling of a positive spirit guiding me constantly.It's a belief in myself,to live life courageously and consciously.It's the love which flows from me to another individual.be it fly,friends or sometimes even strangers.

If this is what makes my life beautiful,then yes.I beleive in God almighty.

[AidanMatthews216]

Originally Posted by johnu

I think that's a Houston (sp?) Smith quote. I love it when people try to logic the existence of God. I don't think we're using the right set of tools. It's amazing how many people have opinions about the ocean that have never been there. And once you're in it and wet with salt water up your nose, staring out at the horizon with no land in sight belief is irrelevant. So, I've had enough experience to convince me of a being that is beyond time and space that is purely coherent unbounded creativity and love. It is within us and surrounds and connects us. I don't know if that is God but I'll take it over being half asleep in a meat suit. But it could just be my underdeveloped hypothalamus talking.

I don't think it takes anything supernatural to elevate us above being "half asleep in a meat suit." I think many people have given up on nature as a source of reverence and think you have to look beyond it to find anything that isn't "meat."

[cbreeze]

I wish I were one of many ppl who "let go and let god". I know that in the beginning there was thought. But who really thought it? god or us? I believe, I just struggle to KNOW that we are all pieces of god and are equipped with the same abilities/capabilities. Hats off to you who do!

[Max Power]

I don't see how it's really helpful to consider that there is a god outside of us. Are we not god? Even the bible says that we were created in God's image. I was brought up a catholic and I never understood why we had to go to a place to worship god. Apart from a gathering of community, it seemed pointless.

If god created me I must be god or a part of it, but at what level does that make me god? Can I have god powers when ever it suits me? When it suits other people (other parts of god) or only when it suits god?

I don't believe in a god that is in a place somewhere, it makes the whole thing very seperated and distant. So if god isn't out there, it must be in here and in here must be this present moment and only this present moment. People don't like that because it becomes unmanagable. How can god or a consciousness power be you or with you, but not everywhere else?

Could it be that god or consciousness is one thing in one place playing a very clever game of denial to sense an existance that is not of itself?

Works for me

I don't believe in god (just don't tell him I said that ok? )

Max

[Hsiang-Lin]

After reading the posts on this thread, it seem there runs a common line among those who do not believe in God.

You cling hard to what you can see or make sense of. Thus, you are limited by the human sense and mind. You cannot see what the mind and sense cannot see.

It is in this moment that separates believers from unbelievers. Will you realize your powerlessness before the grandeur of this universe and its possibilities? Or will you cling hard to your own sense and logic?

Those who absolutely cling on to science need to ask the question, what created science? Saying some things like God "just are" and some things like science must have further explanation is not only inadequate, but contradictory. Are you not in a sense placing value on science before God? One thing over another? Thus, you place your own reasoning and senses higher than all else.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by annah

I wish I were one of many ppl who "let go and let god". I know that in the beginning there was thought. But who really thought it? god or us? I believe, I just struggle to KNOW that we are all pieces of god and are equipped with the same abilities/capabilities. Hats off to you who do!

I'm not so sure what we consider creation involves "thinking" in the usual sense of the word. God/Higher Self/One/Source/All That Is/Brahman/Consciousness doesn't have to think -- it knows things into existence. Raw awareness is the sensation of knowing -- it doesn't necessarily involve thinking. For most, that means your innate awareness that you exist. All who are self aware intrinsically know that they are aware and that they exist. You can doubt whether that is a subjective or objective perception, but you can't deny that you exist.

Because Consciousness is omniscient, all logical and illogical potentials are known, and known absolutely. All conceivable realities exist because of this. You are one of those probabilities -- God imagining/knowing he/she/it is you. Because this is a simulation, you are not really separate from God, even though it appears to be that way. And if separation isn't real, it means everything interpenetrates everything. So God is alot like a hologram in a way. If you break a hologram into a bunch of pieces, each shard will still contain the whole image, albeit in a smaller representation.

When you said you had trouble KNOWING you were God. You said absolutely the key word. Your so busy KNOWING what it is like to be you, you aren't KNOWING what it is like to be God. But feel free to relate to your essential essence in any way you like. Sometimes I like to relate to God as a separate individual. Then I can "let go, and let God" because I choose to believe I'm being taken care of. Just so long as you don't encumber your belief in a all powerful diety with wrathful qualities. You don't want to punish yourself, of course, and you always want to remember that the separation between us/you/god/universe isn't real.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Max Power

I don't see how it's really helpful to consider that there is a god outside of us. Are we not god? Even the bible says that we were created in God's image. I was brought up a catholic and I never understood why we had to go to a place to worship god. Apart from a gathering of community, it seemed pointless.

If god created me I must be god or a part of it, but at what level does that make me god? Can I have god powers when ever it suits me? When it suits other people (other parts of god) or only when it suits god?

I don't believe in a god that is in a place somewhere, it makes the whole thing very seperated and distant. So if god isn't out there, it must be in here and in here must be this present moment and only this present moment. People don't like that because it becomes unmanagable. How can god or a consciousness power be you or with you, but not everywhere else?

Could it be that god or consciousness is one thing in one place playing a very clever game of denial to sense an existance that is not of itself?

Works for me

I don't believe in god (just don't tell him I said that ok? )

Max

Max, you are playing games with yourself and projecting your doubts onto this forum.
You are a cradle catholic and you will die one. Everyone returns to their roots at the point of death, whether they are Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jewish or Atheist.
You are going round in circles. If you can accept that, you will die a peaceful death.
You always return to the teachings your parents gave you as a child.
Most self examination and seeking after the meaning of life is a complete waste of time.
Just work hard and keep your nose clean, simple as that.
Do you really know what consciousness is? No, because it is a phoney word that has been going round in new age circles for the last 50 years or so as some kind of substitute for God.
All you're trying to do is escape from God and run the show yourself. Why?

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Cantando

You always return to the teachings your parents gave you as a child. Most self examination and seeking after the meaning of life is a complete waste of time.

CT, You've got some bold statements presuming much about my beliefs. Belief in a god that isn't you is the ultimate cop out, always a puppet of the puppet master. What's the point of that? To bask in his glory and live under his creation? Seems rather pointless.

All you're trying to do is escape from God and run the show yourself. Why?

I do not believe in a god anywhere, I may have questioned the existance of god here on the forum, but that is in response to other forum members and that's hardly an admission that I believe in an almighty spirit being outside of myself.

Religion, like a belief that something outside of you has some kind of input is a form of control imposed by others for the control over others.

I respect your beliefs, but hardly agree on any level with them, telling me I'm wrong is fine as long as we can agree to disagree.

Enjoy!
Max

[AidanMatthews216]

Originally Posted by Hsiang-Lin

You cling hard to what you can see or make sense of. Thus, you are limited by the human sense and mind. You cannot see what the mind and sense cannot see.

I'm not sure what it would mean to sense without senses or think without a mind. It's a little like asking someone to walk without feet.

It is in this moment that separates believers from unbelievers. Will you realize your powerlessness before the grandeur of this universe and its possibilities?

I am part of the grand universe--I don't feel powerless I feel immensely empowered to be a part of it. And my most magnificent tools happen to be my mind and senses... so I'd rather not toss them out the window.

Or will you cling hard to your own sense and logic?

Whatever other source of knowledge would I have, and why should I allow it to contradict my senses and logic?

Saying some things like God "just are" and some things like science must have further explanation is not only inadequate, but contradictory.

So you, too, see something wrong with contradictions. Do you accept logic then? In fact I don't see how you can form an argument of any kind if you don't "cling" just as much to logic and the senses as we do.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Hsiang-Lin

Those who absolutely cling on to science need to ask the question, what created science? Saying some things like God "just are" and some things like science must have further explanation is not only inadequate, but contradictory. Are you not in a sense placing value on science before God? One thing over another? Thus, you place your own reasoning and senses higher than all else.

I don't cling to science but I'll answer your question anyway. The question of what created science is an easy one. Science is the process of systematically studying the universe through observation and experimentation, collection of data, and determination of theories and laws which agree with the data. This is something humans came up with. So humans created science. And if the next question is "who/what created humans?" we're set on the path of infinite regress, which is a pointless journey.

I also don't follow you when you say 'some things like God "just are" and some things like science must have further explanation' and yet you ask if we're placing value on science before God. It seems that the way you've phrased that values God more than science. I.e., God in unquestionable but science must be questioned.

Both God and science are questionable.

Originally Posted by Hsiang-Lin

It is in this moment that separates believers from unbelievers. Will you realize your powerlessness before the grandeur of this universe and its possibilities? Or will you cling hard to your own sense and logic?

The same could be said of believers, and their tendency to cling to their belief in the vain hope that it will spare them the burden dealing with the reality of having to make their way through this life through their own efforts. It's a denial of personal responsibility.

But that, like your questions, would be unfair to all those who don't exist within such a pessimistic framework. So let me be clear, that's not my belief, but simply an example of a counter-misrepresentation.

Both spiritually and science teach that we are not powerless, despite the wondrous scope of the universe. To think otherwise is to misunderstand both science and spirituality.

It's also misguided to consider logic, faith, and science, to be mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by AidanMatthews216

I'm not sure what it would mean to sense without senses or think without a mind. It's a little like asking someone to walk without feet.

I agree, though I'd say it's akin to asking someone to walk without feet, on their feet. Perhaps the original statement might make more sense if phrased in a way that wasn't contradictory.

Though I think Hsiang-Lin assumes there are senses and minds beyond human, physical senses and minds.

[Love]

I believe in God!

[Rippy]

No, I do not believe in any higher deity of any form. I don't agree with most religions in general, for reasons I would prefer to keep to myself, as I'm not in the mood to get into an argument at the moment.

[Alex2007]

Originally Posted by Cantando

I believe in God as our loving Father and I have had occasional glimpses of his presence, which, for me, is enough to justify my faith.

No way.

I am sorry. God as an object. Sorry but I better go out of such a discussion. It drives me crazy.

[Sam988]

sometimes i believe in god, and sometimes not, depends on the situation