What happens to Atheists when they die??

[Frisky]

What happens to Atheists when they die?? Do they go to their own little astral section of the astral planes where all the other atheists hang out??

Is there any bad karma they will have to deal with for living an anti-spiritual life??
Or do they just go to whatever astral plane their vibration matches??

I find most atheists to be rather negative and condescending people, so I somehow doubt they'd end up in the higher astral planes, no??

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Frisky

I find most atheists to be rather negative and condescending people, so I somehow doubt they'd end up in the higher astral planes, no??

That's kind of a negative and condescending thing to say about atheists, no?? Maybe you just haven't met the nice ones yet - there are plenty of us out here...

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by Indiana

That's kind of a negative and condescending thing to say about atheists, no?? Maybe you just haven't met the nice ones yet - there are plenty of us out here...

The only 2 atheists I ever listened to extensively are Dawkins and Hitchens. And yeah, they dont get much more condescending then those 2

Also, you're atheist? Why would you frequent a spiritual forum??
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm really curious

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Frisky

The only 2 atheists I ever listened to extensively are Dawkins and Hitchens. And yeah, they dont get much more condescending then those 2

Also, you're atheist? Why would you frequent a spiritual forum??
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm really curious

That's true about Dawkins and Hitchens, but there are also plenty of mouthy spiritual people who are negative and condescending towards those who don't share their beliefs, so I find it best not to judge the value of a belief system on its fundamentalists :-)

I don't really hang out in the spiritual section of this forum but your post was on the main page, so I clicked on it because I saw the word atheist.

Like Zeph, I don't think atheism is incompatible with high consciousness. I believe in acceptance, tolerance, moving towards oneness (in the sense of seeing the beauty and truth in all people), and I believe in karma in the sense of 'you reap what you sow'. But these are quite practical matters for me; they don't necessarily involve any kind of universal driving force - they just seem to be a more effective and integrated way of living.

I have, from time to time, seen people who are really into the spiritual side of PD, New Age beliefs, etc, refer to people who don't believe in, say, oneness or astral planes etc, in quite condescending ways. One that seems to be a favourite is 'Muggles'

To me, the highest point of consciousness would seem to be when you truly understand that you are one with everyone - that nobody is better or worse than you, and that judgment is pointless (or a reflection of self-judgment). So I don't think 'higher states of being' are necessarily reserved for those who believe in a spiritual realm.

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by Indiana

That's true about Dawkins and Hitchens, but there are also plenty of mouthy spiritual people who are negative and condescending towards those who don't share their beliefs, so I find it best not to judge the value of a belief system on its fundamentalists :-)

Thats very true. Not so much spiritualists, but it's definitely dogmatic religious people who are arrogant and condescending

Originally Posted by Indiana

Like Zeph, I don't think atheism is incompatible with high consciousness. I believe in acceptance, tolerance, moving towards oneness (in the sense of seeing the beauty and truth in all people), and I believe in karma in the sense of 'you reap what you sow'. But these are quite practical matters for me; they don't necessarily involve any kind of universal driving force - they just seem to be a more effective and integrated way of living

I totally agree with that, especially the karma part. But thats not really what we're discussing though, atheists believe there is no deity of any kind, I say there has to be one because how else was the complexity of human life created??

Originally Posted by Indiana

I have, from time to time, seen people who are really into the spiritual side of PD, New Age beliefs, etc, refer to people who don't believe in, say, oneness or astral planes etc, in quite condescending ways. One that seems to be a favourite is 'Muggles'

To me, the highest point of consciousness would seem to be when you truly understand that you are one with everyone - that nobody is better or worse than you, and that judgment is pointless (or a reflection of self-judgment). So I don't think 'higher states of being' are necessarily reserved for those who believe in a spiritual realm

And agreed again on the last part. Maybe I am being too judgemental re: atheists.

And sorry to say, Hitchens died today. While I didnt particularly like the man, I dont wish cancer on anyone

[beautyscientist]

Well since Christopher Hitchens has been mentioned, I guess he knows now. He was a great man with great passion and commitment. This world is poorer for him no longer being in it. It would be great to think that he was up there somewhere and aware of all the tributes that are being paid to him. But he has achieved a sort of immortality. His works live on to inspire us all.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Frisky

I totally agree with that, especially the karma part. But thats not really what we're discussing though, atheists believe there is no deity of any kind, I say there has to be one because how else was the complexity of human life created??

Evolution seems like a pretty solid theory to most atheists...

[BillyTheAdult]

Originally Posted by rubixmon

Is there a place for us Atheists out there on the astral plane? Well first prove to me there is one.

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

They usually get put in a coffin and buried or cremated and put in an urn.

Yes just like everyone else.

Originally Posted by Indiana

Oh. I guess Hitchens just found out what happens, if anything.

That was strangely timely to this thread wasn't it.

Originally Posted by Frisky

Also, you're atheist? Why would you frequent a spiritual forum??
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm really curious

I guess I'm "technically" agnostic, because I could go with the argument that the greater field of consciousness is god, who am I to say (although I tend not to make that argument myself, in general I prefer not to even think about it) I'm really primarily atheist. Buddhism is really an atheist religion. Spirituality is a big part of my life and I spend a decent amount of my forum time in the spirituality section. There is no disconnect to me between spirituality and atheism. In fact there is more of a disconnect to me between religiousness and spirituality because it seems that people with religiousity tend not to question or think about their beliefs nearly as much and are more likely to just agree with whatever they are told.

I just want to clarify about the field of consciousness thing. I don't like to say it's god because I find most people have an image of god in their head, and when they say consciousness is god, what they really mean is that consciousness is that image and they are not actually thinking about it or representing it in the terms of consciousness being the allness and oneness of everything that is. If god exists where is it?

[ZephyrusX]

I am an atheist as well.

Usually when I hear people talking about vibrations, they are talking about states of being sort of akin to Steve's explanation on levels of consciousness. I don't think it is fair to assume that atheists are any less able to achieve higher levels of being, such as understanding and unconditional love.

What do you mean by anti-spiritual life?

Originally Posted by Frisky

I find most atheists to be rather negative and condescending people, so I somehow doubt they'd end up in the higher astral planes, no??

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I am an atheist as well.

Usually when I hear people talking about vibrations, they are talking about states of being sort of akin to Steve's explanation on levels of consciousness. I don't think it is fair to assume that atheists are any less able to achieve higher levels of being, such as understanding and unconditional love.

What do you mean by anti-spiritual life?

I just doint see how you can be spiritual, and at the same time conclude the universe was created without some type of God.

But hey, thats just me. Maybe I'm wrong

[ZephyrusX]

Originally Posted by Frisky

I just doint see how you can be spiritual, and at the same time conclude the universe was created without some type of God.

But hey, thats just me. Maybe I'm wrong

Secular spirituality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I like this explanation.

To add to it, I am an atheist, but I'd like to point out that much of what we experience in life as human beings transcends the material world irrespective of whether you believe in a divine God or other planes of reality. I can show up to my cousin's wedding (the material reality), but that material state does not inform me what state of being I will observe (anger, spite, joy, love) or how I will relate to my enviornment (detached, connected). These are issues of spirituality, for me.

I don't think it is possible for someone to live an anti-spiritual life. Anger is a state of being as well, and if you want to strictly define spirituality as the pursuit of 'higher' states of being, I don't think you can neatly separate human qualitites and emotions as if they are mutually exclusive. They are not. My experiences with anger, powerlessness and despair, for example, enables me to be more forgiving and empathetic.

Creating a divide between the spiritual and anti-spiritual just seems like another false dichotomy that people set up for their own self-interest (i.e pride, arrogance). For me, spirituality is an essential aspect of being human, so to say that some people are not spiritual seems dehumanizing to me.

The only way I can see justifying calling some people anti-spiritual is if you strictly define spirituality to matters relating beyond this state of reality, but then, that would seem rather disingenous because much of what people are concerned about when speaking about spirituality actually pertains to states of being (or consciousness) and the meaning of existence.

Secular spirituality emphasizes humanistic qualities such as love, compassion, patience, tolerance, forgiveness, contentment, responsibility, harmony, and a concern for others[2]:22, aspects of life and human experience which go beyond a purely materialist view of the world, without necessarily accepting belief in a supernatural reality or divine being. Spiritual practices such as mindfulness and meditation can be experienced as beneficial or even necessary for human fulfillment without any supernatural interpretation or explanation. Spirituality in this context may be a matter of nurturing thoughts, emotions, words and actions that are in harmony with a belief that everything in the universe is mutually dependent; this stance has much in common with some versions of Buddhist spirituality. A modern secular definition: "Spirituality exists wherever we struggle with the issues of how our lives fit into the greater scheme of things. This is true when our questions never give way to specific answers or give rise to specific practices such as prayer or meditation. we encounter spiritual issues every time we wonder where the universe comes from, why we are here, or what happens when we die. We also become spiritual when we become moved by values such as beauty, love, or creativity that seem to reveal a meaning or power beyond our visible world. An idea or practice is "spiritual" when it reveals our personal desire to establish a felt-relationship with the deepest meanings or powers governing life." - Robert C. Fuller

Ha! Now that I got that off my chest, I'll stop derailing your thread.

[Indiana]

Oh. I guess Hitchens just found out what happens, if anything.

In spite of (or perhaps because of) his bloody-mindedness, he certainly made a very valuable contribution to political discourse, and challenged people to use their brains.

[RonSouther]

I'm an agnostic pagan....

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

To add to it, I am an atheist, but I'd like to point out that much of what we experience in life as human beings transcends the material world irrespective of whether you believe in a divine God or other planes of reality. I can show up to my cousin's wedding (the material reality), but that material state does not inform me what state of being I will observe (anger, spite, joy, love) or how I will relate to my enviornment (detached, connected). These are issues of spirituality, for me.

Zeph, I'm curious--where do you think these "states of being" (i.e., anger, spite, joy, love) come from? Or, are they just emotions, to you?

[Qwuakeup]

"Being spiritual has nothing to do with what you believe and everything to do with your state of consciousness." - Eckhart Tolle

Labelling something doesn't change it, it's the state of mind. No matter what Earthly label you attach to someone (Bad, good, evil, atheist, religious), that is all it is. Merely Labels.

The state of the person's conciousness and personal experience is what determines what happens when they die, and is the result of the belief systems throughout life.

If they're atheist, but know about the afterlife, jesus, buddha (Most people have) then when they die they might be a bit confused at first, and slowly they would realize that they are dead and so they'll start asking themselves, maybe I was wrong? Then whatever belief system they change to this is the one they will experience in Death.

Remember death is just as much an illusion as "real life", and that pure consciousness is ultimately what we are.

[ZephyrusX]

I suppose, in a crude way, I would just say they are emotions. I think it might be a bit more complicated than that though as I think people adopt predominate modes of being at different stages in their life that relate to their psychological and external resources. For example, anger was the core state of being that I seemed to gravity towards during my teens and early twenties. Now, most of the time, I feel... hmmm.. neutral I guess. I can still get angry at times, but I just seem to gravitate towards... neutral feelings most of the time...

Where do you think these states of being come from?

Originally Posted by Beingist

Zeph, I'm curious--where do you think these "states of being" (i.e., anger, spite, joy, love) come from? Or, are they just emotions, to you?

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Zeph, I'm curious--where do you think these "states of being" (i.e., anger, spite, joy, love) come from? Or, are they just emotions, to you?

Do you mind if I answer this one? I think they come from our constant interactions with the outside world. In our unenlightened state, they're direct reactions to outside stimuli. I believe the fully enlightened individual is capable of generating any emotion regardless of circumstance.

What's your version?

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Secular spirituality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I like this explanation.

To add to it, I am an atheist, but I'd like to point out that much of what we experience in life as human beings transcends the material world irrespective of whether you believe in a divine God or other planes of reality. I can show up to my cousin's wedding (the material reality), but that material state does not inform me what state of being I will observe (anger, spite, joy, love) or how I will relate to my enviornment (detached, connected). These are issues of spirituality, for me.

I don't think it is possible for someone to live an anti-spiritual life. Anger is a state of being as well, and if you want to strictly define spirituality as the pursuit of 'higher' states of being, I don't think you can neatly separate human qualitites and emotions as if they are mutually exclusive. They are not. My experiences with anger, powerlessness and despair, for example, enables me to be more forgiving and empathetic.

Creating a divide between the spiritual and anti-spiritual just seems like another false dichotomy that people set up for their own self-interest (i.e pride, arrogance). For me, spirituality is an essential aspect of being human, so to say that some people are not spiritual seems dehumanizing to me.

The only way I can see justifying calling some people anti-spiritual is if you strictly define spirituality to matters relating beyond this state of reality, but then, that would seem rather disingenous because much of what people are concerned about when speaking about spirituality actually pertains to states of being (or consciousness) and the meaning of existence.





Ha! Now that I got that off my chest, I'll stop derailing your thread.

I...I think I'm in love!

This reminds me of a Zen saying someone on here wrote: ''When you see the Buddha, kill him.''

Right now I interpret it as saying something like ''Avoid deifying your fellow humans''. I love the Buddhist philosophy, it moves, inspires and motivates me to do good. I think all beliefs need to be investigated thoroughly. One needs to discard those who are founded illogically and keep the logical ones. I think the idea is to keep compassion and reason at the forefront of our intellectual considerations. There's lots of metaphors and superstitions in some versions of the Buddha story. It's best to investigate what's what and build on that.

Although I haven't read the book, I think the Dalai Lama agrees.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

This reminds me of a Zen saying someone on here wrote: ''When you see the Buddha, kill him.''

Good one.

[supertom]

Originally Posted by Frisky

I just doint see how you can be spiritual, and at the same time conclude the universe was created without some type of God.

But hey, thats just me. Maybe I'm wrong

It goes something like...
“Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too.” - Douglas Adams

more about the magic, logic and beauty of the universe and the laws that allow them to function. In saying that the word spirituality has become very vague.

[redemption]

They become part of the earth. Natural life takes over.

[qwertyportne]

Originally Posted by supertom

“Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too.” - Douglas Adams.... the word spirituality has become very vague.

Thanks for the quote, Supertom, reminds me of the Zen saying that spirituality isn't thinking about god while peeling potatoes, it's just peeling the potatoes...

--Bill

[cheesedip1]

Originally Posted by Frisky

I just doint see how you can be spiritual, and at the same time conclude the universe was created without some type of God.

Hmm...maybe people who don't believe in a type of God believe in stuff such as "values" (integrity, compassion, etc.) and a "greater good". Although the term "God" can mean many things to different people.

[theuprising]

Originally Posted by Frisky

I just doint see how you can be spiritual, and at the same time conclude the universe was created without some type of God.

But hey, thats just me. Maybe I'm wrong

There's so much we don't know, maybe there was a creator God. Or the more likely scenario is that stuff is just there and we are looking at one of an infinite of existing possibilities. This is backed up by the recent theory proposed by Hawking that multiple (infinite?) universes may exist.

Imo, if there is an absolute God that made everything and controls everything, praying to him would hardly matter since the universe would be perfect in his eyes, so his effect in your life should be negligible. I never understood divine intervention, Gods need to intervene if their creation was imperfect, and thus those Gods are just imperfect beings like us.

[lycan]

Originally Posted by Frisky

I just doint see how you can be spiritual, and at the same time conclude the universe was created without some type of God.

But hey, thats just me. Maybe I'm wrong

Define the word God.

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by ButterflyWoman

Not even most of them are. Most atheists, like most people in general, don't get all up in your face all the time about their spiritual beliefs. And that tendency to be all up in your face is a human thing, not an atheist one (because people of all religions and political persuasions do it, if they're that kind of person)

Thats mostly true

Originally Posted by Angela

Do you think YOU are objective? You have in this thread declared that most atheists are xyz and that you know a grand total of two of them, plus a couple of highly vocal atheist activists, on whom you base this opinion about "most" atheists

No, I'm not perfect. I do try to be as objective as possible.

Let me ask you, are YOU 100% objective yourself??!

Originally Posted by Angela

You have in this thread declared that most atheists are xyz and that you know a grand total of two of them, plus a couple of highly vocal atheist activists, on whom you base this opinion about "most" atheists

I base it on 2 people I know here in Toronto, Hitchens, Dawkins and other atheists who I encountered on these similar types of forums

Originally Posted by lycan

Define the word God

Undefinable in my opinion



.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Frisky

I'm not perfect. I do try to be as objective as possible.

Basing your assertion on 2 people you know, 2 public figure activists, and some people you've encountered on forums is as objective as possible for you? It's not possible for you to be any more objective in your assessment of "most atheists" than that? That seems like an extremely small sample to me.

Let me ask you, are YOU 100% objective yourself??!

No. I don't hold that as a standard. I'm simply asking you if you find yourself as LOL as other people who are not perfectly objective in their viewpoint (e.g., everybody).

I don't find you to be LOL because of your highly subjective perspective in this matter. It does sound pretty mean-spirited to me, though, and not what I'd call "spiritual." That's because referring to the majority of a group as something insulting, like "arrogant and condescending," contributes to a feeling of hostility and us vs. them, like:

"Most African American people are lazy."
"Most Mexicans are stupid."
"Most gay people are perverts."
"Most men are dogs."
etc.

This kind of remark is sometimes followed by, "of course, there are a few exceptions - some of my best friends are African American/Mexican/gay/men" or "you're too sensitive/taking it personally" but that doesn't tend to mitigate the hostile environment that such remarks create. It's just crazy making -- in the sense that it occurs to listeners like pretending to have a win/win intention when there's really a win/lose intention going on. It's hard for anyone to believe you have a win/win intention when you're using insulting prejudiced terms and then LOLing when someone lets you know they find it insulting.

What astral plane do people who do that end up on?

I think you're probably genuinely concerned about the spiritual wellbeing of others. And I invite you to consider the feelings of the people whom you generalize in an insulting way, and what it is you're actually creating in the conversation -- what kind of astral plane you are generating right now.

[lycan]

Originally Posted by Frisky

Undefinable in my opinion.

A word that is undefinable is not a word. It is random noise.

[supertom]

Originally Posted by Frisky

What happens to Atheists when they die?? Do they go to their own little astral section of the astral planes where all the other atheists hang out??

Is there any bad karma they will have to deal with for living an anti-spiritual life??
Or do they just go to whatever astral plane their vibration matches??

I find most atheists to be rather negative and condescending people, so I somehow doubt they'd end up in the higher astral planes, no??

They will find something else to be wrong about. Perhaps they really will cease to exist, life is about your choices and beliefs after all. I don't think we have really have the tools to lessen the mystery or clear the darkness, I think I prefer to acknowledge the unknown as the unknown.

[desertrat]

I believe that is a place on the astral , even for atheists , and reincarnation also . desert rat