The Gospel Truth(?)

[Beingist]

I have a strange hobby. I translate the Latin Vulgate.

I do this for two reasons. First, I learned and studied Ancient Latin in college, and I don't want to lose my familiarity with the language. Secondly, as a former converted Roman Catholic, and as one who perceives the record of Jesus' words as expressing universal truths, it helps me to understand those truths in light of a more non-dualist perspective. Granted, since the Gospel was written in Koine Greek and Aramaic, the Vulgate is not an original source. But since I never studied Koine Greek and Aramaic, the Vulgate is the closest thing I have to a literal translation of the original languages (compiled in the late 4th century), and is less corrupted by more recent interpretations (including the King James version, translated from the Greek, but a thousand years later than the Vulgate).

In any event, and aside from the Latin, I think the Gospel nonetheless remains rich with insights into a spirituality that is not traditionally Christian, and I was curious to see if there were any others in this forum who have interpreted any verses of the Gospel non-traditionally. This is not to say that the Gospel offers nothing that can't be interpreted traditionally, but rather that, from what I've studied (both in Latin and in English), non-traditional interpretations are no less valid than the traditional ones, and I'm curious to see what anyone else may have interpreted.

As someone from these boards once said, "Truth is by nature self-evident", and I agree. So let this thread be a place where the self-evident Truth of the Gospel may shine forth.



ETA: I may also be willing to take requests to translate something from the Vulgate, if anyone thinks it might help.

[Beingist]

One of my favorite verses is this one:

“For that reason I say to you, do not worry for your lives, what you may eat, nor for your body, what may be worn. Is not life more than food? And the body more than clothes? Look at the birds of the air, since they neither sow, nor reap, nor congregate in granaries, and your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of much more (value) than they? And which (of you), (by) thinking, can add to your stature one cubit? And about clothes, what are you bothered (about)? Consider the lilies of the field, in the way they grow: neither do they toil nor do they weave. But I say to you, not even Solomon in all his glory is covered as one such as these. And if a blade of grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is sent into the oven, God so clothes, how much more you, (O, you) of little faith?

So, do not be worried, saying, ‘what shall we eat?’ or ‘what shall we drink?’ or ‘in what shall we be clothed?’ For all these things people seek after. For your Father knows that you need all these things. Seek, therefore, first, the kingship of God, and his fairness, and all these things will be assigned to you. Do not, therefore, be worried about tomorrow, for the day will worry about itself. Its maladies suffice for the day.”
Matthew 6:25-30

For me, this passage clearly says, "be in the moment", and "have no attachments", certainly a novel concept back around the 30's A.D., but nonetheless highly applicable now.

[Prinie]

"Salt and Light

13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."- Matthew 5

Be who you really are. Let the Divine light that exists within shine and radiate outward for the world to see. Don't hide it. It is your true essence and nature.

Reminds me of the lovely lady I read and spoke to for many years. She let her light shine and by simply being, she further inspired my journey. She reignited the fire that existed in my heart time and time again, much the same way Jesus does.

What do you think Beingst?

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Prinie

"Salt and Light

13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."- Matthew 5

Be who you really are. Let the Divine light that exists within shine and radiate outward for the world to see. Don't hide it. It is your true essence and nature.

Reminds me of the lovely lady I read and spoke to for many years. She let her light shine and by simply being, she further inspired my journey. She reignited the fire that existed in my heart time and time again, much the same way Jesus does.

What do you think Beingst?

Amen (so BE it)

Now, see, this is why I started the thread--I never heard this interpretation, before. Sounds perfect, to me. Thanks, Prinie.

(This may very well be my next translation).

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Amen (so BE it)

Now, see, this is why I started the thread--I never heard this interpretation, before. Sounds perfect, to me. Thanks, Prinie.

(This may very well be my next translation).

You're so welcome! Much of the words in the Bible sing in my heart but I often get a different interpretation than most people. I've come to accept this. Often times the words have been skewed to create a control system and a brainwashing to keep us divided and to keep people under this idea of superiority (I'll be saved) and inferiority (you'll be condemned). I don't feel hate or disconnect when I read the Bible, but love, spirit, and understanding and that's what matters to me.

Hopefully more will contribute positively.

<3

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Prinie

You're so welcome! Much of the words in the Bible sing in my heart but I often get a different interpretation than most people. I've come to accept this. Often times the words have been skewed to create a control system and a brainwashing to keep us divided and to keep people under this idea of superiority (I'll be saved) and inferiority (you'll be condemned). I don't feel hate or disconnect when I read the Bible, but love, spirit, and understanding and that's what matters to me.

Hopefully more will contribute positively.

<3

I can't tell you how much I relate to this. Truly.

Reminds me of a line out of an old song that I like--"Too many churches, and not enough Truth".

Thanks for you, Prinie.

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by Beingist

I can't tell you how much I relate to this. Truly.

Reminds me of a line out of an old song that I like--"Too many churches, and not enough Truth".

Thanks for you, Prinie.

Gracias for you too Beingst! I'm glad you started this thread

[Beingist]

Just a note to further explain why I hobby in translating the Vulgate.

Here's the Latin the "Salt and Light" verse:

Vos estis sal terræ. Quod si sal evanuerit, in quo salietur? ad nihilum valet ultra, nisi ut mittatur foras, et conculcetur ab hominibus.

Here's a literal translation:

You (all) are the salt of the earth. But if salt vanishes, against what will it be leapt?

Latin is not easy to translate into contemporary terms, and this is prime example of that, but it may further illustrate Jesus' point--the value of Who One is.

Back in the day, salt was used for interpreting auspices, where it was thrown into a small fire, and if it "jumped out," the auspices were good. But, as Jesus is asking rhetorically here, if there's no salt, there can be no auspices. Being Who One is, then, is actually needed to give light to the world. (Assuming, of course, he really said it, and unless it's contradicted, somehow, by the original Greek text).

And yes, auspices are Pagan in origin. Hence, no doubt why, at least in part, modern translations can whitewash original texts.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Beingist

One of my favorite verses is this one:
For me, this passage clearly says, "be in the moment", and "have no attachments", certainly a novel concept back around the 30's A.D., but nonetheless highly applicable now.

It was old wisdom even way back then. Type any of those quotes into google and add "Vedic wisdom" next to them and you'll see the Vedic Hindu teachings were full of that stuff way before the New Testament teachings.

[VinceG]

Wow that's a cool hobby! Awesome!

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Prinie

You're so welcome! Much of the words in the Bible sing in my heart but I often get a different interpretation than most people. I've come to accept this. Often times the words have been skewed to create a control system and a brainwashing to keep us divided and to keep people under this idea of superiority (I'll be saved) and inferiority (you'll be condemned). I don't feel hate or disconnect when I read the Bible, but love, spirit, and understanding and that's what matters to me.

Hopefully more will contribute positively.

<3

This is an outstanding read....The Gospel of Thomas

http://www.amazon.com/Mustard-Seed-R...3930345&sr=1-1

[Sponge]

Originally Posted by Beingist

I have a strange hobby. I translate the Latin Vulgate.

I do this for two reasons. First, I learned and studied Ancient Latin in college, and I don't want to lose my familiarity with the language. Secondly, as a former converted Roman Catholic, and as one who perceives the record of Jesus' words as expressing universal truths, it helps me to understand those truths in light of a more non-dualist perspective. Granted, since the Gospel was written in Koine Greek and Aramaic, the Vulgate is not an original source. But since I never studied Koine Greek and Aramaic, the Vulgate is the closest thing I have to a literal translation of the original languages (compiled in the late 4th century), and is less corrupted by more recent interpretations (including the King James version, translated from the Greek, but a thousand years later than the Vulgate).

In any event, and aside from the Latin, I think the Gospel nonetheless remains rich with insights into a spirituality that is not traditionally Christian, and I was curious to see if there were any others in this forum who have interpreted any verses of the Gospel non-traditionally. This is not to say that the Gospel offers nothing that can't be interpreted traditionally, but rather that, from what I've studied (both in Latin and in English), non-traditional interpretations are no less valid than the traditional ones, and I'm curious to see what anyone else may have interpreted.

As someone from these boards once said, "Truth is by nature self-evident", and I agree. So let this thread be a place where the self-evident Truth of the Gospel may shine forth.



ETA: I may also be willing to take requests to translate something from the Vulgate, if anyone thinks it might help.

Hi, haven't read the whole thread yet, but thanks for this I'll follow with interest. Any Loa quotes/verses would be of interest too!

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

This is an outstanding read....The Gospel of Thomas

Amazon.com: The Mustard Seed: The Revolutionary Teachings of Jesus (9780981834122): Osho: Books

The Gnostic texts! I somewhat like them. The thing that gets me when I read sometimes is that my heart soars in some places and then I get to other places and it wobbles. Like, "Hm...I'm not sure here." I usually keep my questions to myself these days and just hope it'll be revealed in its time...if there's anything to be revealed.

The one I always wished I could finish reading was the Gospel of Mary where she says Jesus told her stuff. Everytime I get to the section that says (pages __ to __ are missing) I just go, "NOOOO!" It's always at the sweet spots. :/ But the style of writing almost reminds me of Plato/Socrates. Greco-Roman kind of style.

This part,
"11) The Savior answered and said, He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind that is between the two that is what sees the vision and it is [...]

(pages 11 - 14 are missing from the manuscript)


Chapter 8:

. . . it.

10) And desire said, I did not see you descending, but now I see you ascending. Why do you lie since you belong to me?

11) The soul answered and said, I saw you. You did not see me nor recognize me. I served you as a garment and you did not know me.

12) When it said this, it (the soul) went away rejoicing greatly.

13) Again it came to the third power, which is called ignorance.

14) The power questioned the soul, saying, Where are you going? In wickedness are you bound. But you are bound; do not judge!

15) And the soul said, Why do you judge me, although I have not judged?

16) I was bound, though I have not bound.

17) I was not recognized. But I have recognized that the All is being dissolved, both the earthly things and the heavenly.

18) When the soul had overcome the third power, it went upwards and saw the fourth power, which took seven forms.

19) The first form is darkness, the second desire, the third ignorance, the fourth is the excitement of death, the fifth is the kingdom of the flesh, the sixth is the foolish wisdom of flesh, the seventh is the wrathful wisdom. These are the seven powers of wrath.

20) They asked the soul, Whence do you come slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?

21) The soul answered and said, What binds me has been slain, and what turns me about has been overcome,

22) and my desire has been ended, and ignorance has died.

23) In a aeon I was released from a world, and in a Type from a type, and from the fetter of oblivion which is transient.

24) From this time on will I attain to the rest of the time, of the season, of the aeon, in silence."

But I wish I had a more profound understanding of it. The soul lived in darkness moving in circular motion until it found the light. Then it moved past desire, which for a time the soul served only to realize that desire never nurtured it. And ignorance kept the soul bound, not knowing that it had the right to be free.

It's essentially another ladder of transcendence of the soul and I remember when Jesus was taken into the wilderness to be tested.

What do you think, Ron? And the rest of you

[Prinie]

lol I type all that and realize your book was by Osho.

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Just a note to further explain why I hobby in translating the Vulgate.

Here's the Latin the "Salt and Light" verse:

Here's a literal translation:

Latin is not easy to translate into contemporary terms, and this is prime example of that, but it may further illustrate Jesus' point--the value of Who One is.

Back in the day, salt was used for interpreting auspices, where it was thrown into a small fire, and if it "jumped out," the auspices were good. But, as Jesus is asking rhetorically here, if there's no salt, there can be no auspices. Being Who One is, then, is actually needed to give light to the world. (Assuming, of course, he really said it, and unless it's contradicted, somehow, by the original Greek text).

And yes, auspices are Pagan in origin. Hence, no doubt why, at least in part, modern translations can whitewash original texts.

Enlightening

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Prinie

lol I type all that and realize your book was by Osho.

Try also these Scriptures of St. Issa which is said to be Jesus's name in India. They read really well. If you follow what he's saying closely, God is "natural law" but the verbage very much sounds like Jesus.
The Lost Years of Jesus: The Life of Saint Issa - Notovitch

[royster]

Very excellent thread.

I have such respect for those who keep these truths current.

Could I get Beingist's and the other participant's permission to copy~paste this on my website? I would place it on the public board, which anyone can post on (you need not be a member). I find it highly valuable and in harmony with my own views, and those of my website's members.

Beingist's Gospel Truth

[Prinie]

What's your site royster?

[royster]

I added it when you were posting

Beingist's Gospel Truth

Home Page here:

halfpast - Index

[Prinie]

I don't mind.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by royster

Very excellent thread.

I have such respect for those who keep these truths current.

Could I get Beingist's and the other participant's permission to copy~paste this on my website? I would place it on the public board, which anyone can post on (you need not be a member). I find it highly valuable and in harmony with my own views, and those of my website's members.

Beingist's Gospel Truth

Indeed, Royster, you have my permission to use anything of mine you want from here. And thanks for asking.

[royster]

Many thanks, Beingist.

You are welcome to post there, should you wish.

And to reciprocate: my work is in the public domain: feel free to use it as you see fit.

Not quite off-topic, but certainly this thread was an influence to the writing:

How The Law Of Abundance Works For Me

[royster]

I have transferred this thread to my website, and will try to update here as members (or visitors) respond.

I hope Beingist continues this thread...I know he's busy in many other areas of interest...and doing a terrific job there, too!

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Beingist

One of my favorite verses is this one:
For me, this passage clearly says, "be in the moment", and "have no attachments", certainly a novel concept back around the 30's A.D., but nonetheless highly applicable now.

I agree, but it seems nature is pointed to in a more than symbolic way. Man has come to see himself in opposition to the forces of nature in many ways, and since he IS nature, this leads to disharmony and struggle. Society has it's own sustaining structure and values and we have become dependent upon, and attached to, that structure.

The passage says that nature is naturally self supporting.

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by Beingist

As someone from these boards once said, "Truth is by nature self-evident", and I agree.

ETA: I may also be willing to take requests to translate something from the Vulgate, if anyone thinks it might help.

“Truth is by nature self-evident. As soon as you remove the cobwebs of ignorance that surround it, it shines clear.” ~Mahatma Gandhi

Too bad you don’t know a useful language like Sanskrit, lol, just kidding; both languages are dying because of their complexities are difficult to learn, it’s much easier to watch TV.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by raykilleen

“Truth is by nature self-evident. As soon as you remove the cobwebs of ignorance that surround it, it shines clear.” ~Mahatma Gandhi

Thanks, ray.

Too bad you don’t know a useful language like Sanskrit, lol, just kidding; both languages are dying because of their complexities are difficult to learn, it’s much easier to watch TV.

No doubt.

Speaking of TV, I just watched an interesting PBS documentary on the early Christian movement at Watch The Full Program Online | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS

They do a fairly good job, I think, at putting the Gospels in a historical context.

[royster]

PLEASE don't let this thread end up in the dust bin: there's too much valuable information to be gleaned!

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by royster

PLEASE don't let this thread end up in the dust bin: there's too much valuable information to be gleaned!

Okay, okay!

But, for now, just a brief one, as I'm now working on some translation in Mark. This one is from John, 5:30.

Non possum ego a meipso facere quidquam. Sicut audio, judico : et judicium meum justum est, quia non quæro voluntatem meam, sed voluntatem ejus qui misit me.

I cannot of myself do anything. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

It is probably most controversial to say this, but Jesus himself didn't perform a single miracle. Several examples and implications treat of the idea that the works Jesus does is the Father working through him.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Beingist

It is probably most controversial to say this, but Jesus himself didn't perform a single miracle. Several examples and implications treat of the idea that the works Jesus does is the Father working through him.

Causality gets hard to define in these sorts of cases. Sure, Jesus may not have done them, but would they have happened without him?

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by VinceG

Causality gets hard to define in these sorts of cases. Sure, Jesus may not have done them, but would they have happened without him?

Such a question is completely hypothetical. Who could even know that?