Illusion and Commercials

[Samurai Lincoln]

This word..."illusion" ......seems to be pretty difficult and complicating. I think ultimately it ends up being understood in whatever way the mind is capable of understanding it. For example "difficult and complicating." Maybe there's something to that. Or maybe that's just mind wanting there to be something to that

What reoccurs (in some of the threads dealing with this type of subject matter) is the conversation about the difference between Truth and illusion. It's something that my mind has been trying to figure out..... with no progress if I'm being honest.

Recently I was watching some ads on television (this has a point I promise) and just seeing the ridiculous tones and obvious expressions of all the actors and how those things combine with the music in a way that (I guess) is supposed to appeal to different emotions...none of which has anything to do with the practicalities of what is being sold. For an example, Youtube any car commercial especially the one with the giant dancing hamsters....or are they gerbels...or perhaps guinea pigs.

To make the question short, does anyone else see the similarity of the rope-snake analogy and the goal of these ads, which is (imo) to basically get the mind to create an illusion around the product. Or am I just reaching?

[AllTogetherNow]

the goal of these ads, which is (imo) to get the mind to create an illusion around the product. Or am I just reaching?

no - not reaching at all. you're totally on point - that's exactly what advertising and marketing IS! regardless of whether or not the manufactured illusion has anything to do with the actual performance of the product, the goal is creating/manipulating emotion in the viewer, who then associates the emotion with the product. whether you remember it consciously or not, it still occurs at a subliminal level.

an example....think of all those "priceless" mastercard commercials -- purposely intended to create 'warm fuzzy' emotions in the viewer. Now we all remember those commercials, and associate using our mastercards with creating priceless family memories..... never mind that the actual reality is the exact opposite (we're creating credit card debt - not priceless memories). but the 'warm fuzzy' is an extremely powerful and effective emotion to manipulate, and sucks people in to the illusion they're selling. doesn't everyone, at a deep fundamental level, want to have all those priceless, romantic, soft-focus, loveable family memories??? well, yeeehh - so ppl continue to keep 'creating memories' by using their credit card, no matter WHAT the reality actually is for their budget.

these things are meticulously calculated by marketing/advertising companies; using focus groups, measuring eye-movements & emotional reactions; they measure and test many approaches, to see what "lands" their goal at the other end (the person watching the commerical) most effectively. Illusion is powerful, and it works.

[Cheese Consumer]

Originally Posted by AllTogetherNow

these things are meticulously calculated by marketing/advertising companies; using focus groups, measuring eye-movements & emotional reactions...

Yes, very much true. This is one of the most socially damaging things occurring today. If one group controls the subconscious of another group then this group are less able to be in control of themselves. If this group happens to be the majority of the westernized population then we have a little problem on our hands.

How many people will say "oh, I don't take any notice of ads anyway"? This is exactly how it works. Our subconscious is recording all the time whether we approve of it or not. If people could really ignore things then commerce would have failed long ago.

There was a study done a few years back where two artists were asked to paint a picture but were not told anything about the subject until they arrived at a studio by taxi. Once given their subject they both (on separate days, unknown to each other) painted a picture and these were compared at the end. Both pictures included about half a dozen aspects of things they had seen on the taxi ride to the studio which was a carefully planned route past a number of iconic images and features of the city.

You can't turn off your senses and nor can they be trusted. These principles were harnessed a long time ago by perhaps the inventor of PR Edward Bernays, nephew of Sigmund Freud to great effect. Edward Bernays - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia He knew just how to manipulate public opinion and his methods are alive and well today, for better or worse. Wikipedia quotes him as saying "The engineering of consent is the very essence of the democratic process, the freedom to persuade and suggest." I think that sums up the whole process very well really- you have no opinion that is truly yours and it is my job to ensure that (A) you think you are in control of your opinions and beliefs and (B) your opinions and beliefs land right where the people paying my bills want them to. Chaching!

CC

[Moriarty]

Marketers hire special teams to create commercials. We all know they use psychology and tactics designed to make us believe we just have to have that product. They have subliminal messages in them as well.

I just dont bother watching tv adds by recording the programs and skipping the adds and if the radio plays too many commercials in a row, I switch the station.

[Samurai Lincoln]

Originally Posted by Moriarty

Marketers hire special teams to create commercials. We all know they use psychology and tactics designed to make us believe we just have to have that product. They have subliminal messages in them as well.

I just dont bother watching tv adds by recording the programs and skipping the adds and if the radio plays too many commercials in a row, I switch the station.

There are people who don't seem to see this about ads. I mean, just look at what has happened with the whole Super Bowl commercial thing. They're being praised.

For the most part they're viewed as harmless I think. Which seems to be what they're trying to be seen as primarily. People mostly don't even have opinions on commercials besides, "Did you see the one with the blah blah blah? It was pretty good." Until recently this had been how I viewed them. I would watch them not thinking anything of them and had done so for quite a long time. Then a friend just started talking about his frustration with ads and how much he couldn't stand them which seemed odd to me because I hadn't ever heard someone talk about them like that. Which then naturally made me try to understand what he was saying. It wasn't until I became more aware of the various choices of music in these ads that I finally began to grasp what he had been saying. The music, I think plays the biggest roll in these ads for getting at the emotions. Once I saw that I couldn't help but see how ridiculous all those ads were. The music itself isn't ridiculous, but rather how unrelated it was to the product. And then I noticed that nothing in the commercial relates to the product.

The fact that I hadn't really been aware of this before shows how powerful those damn things can be when introduced to the mind. I would even say that I was less conscious before these things entered awareness.

Having said all of that, my main question remains does anyone see this subject as having any relation to seeing illusion and seeing Truth?

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by Samurai Lincoln

There are people who don't seem to see this about ads. I mean, just look at what has happened with the whole Super Bowl commercial thing. They're being praised.

For the most part they're viewed as harmless I think. Which seems to be what they're trying to be seen as primarily. People mostly don't even have opinions on commercials besides, "Did you see the one with the blah blah blah? It was pretty good." Until recently this had been how I viewed them. I would watch them not thinking anything of them and had done so for quite a long time. Then a friend just started talking about his frustration with ads and how much he couldn't stand them which seemed odd to me because I hadn't ever heard someone talk about them like that. Which then naturally made me try to understand what he was saying. It wasn't until I became more aware of the various choices of music in these ads that I finally began to grasp what he had been saying. The music, I think plays the biggest roll in these ads for getting at the emotions. Once I saw that I couldn't help but see how ridiculous all those ads were. The music itself isn't ridiculous, but rather how unrelated it was to the product. And then I noticed that nothing in the commercial relates to the product.

The fact that I hadn't really been aware of this before shows how powerful those damn things can be when introduced to the mind. I would even say that I was less conscious before these things entered awareness.

Having said all of that, my main question remains does anyone see this subject as having any relation to seeing illusion and seeing Truth?

Dont have superbowl here so know nothing of that add.

Both illusion & truth are false concepts created by ourselves. Neither holds substance. Not sure what your trying to get at.

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by Samurai Lincoln

There are people who don't seem to see this about ads. I mean, just look at what has happened with the whole Super Bowl commercial thing. They're being praised.

For the most part they're viewed as harmless I think. Which seems to be what they're trying to be seen as primarily. People mostly don't even have opinions on commercials besides, "Did you see the one with the blah blah blah? It was pretty good." Until recently this had been how I viewed them. I would watch them not thinking anything of them and had done so for quite a long time. Then a friend just started talking about his frustration with ads and how much he couldn't stand them which seemed odd to me because I hadn't ever heard someone talk about them like that. Which then naturally made me try to understand what he was saying. It wasn't until I became more aware of the various choices of music in these ads that I finally began to grasp what he had been saying. The music, I think plays the biggest roll in these ads for getting at the emotions. Once I saw that I couldn't help but see how ridiculous all those ads were. The music itself isn't ridiculous, but rather how unrelated it was to the product. And then I noticed that nothing in the commercial relates to the product.

The fact that I hadn't really been aware of this before shows how powerful those damn things can be when introduced to the mind. I would even say that I was less conscious before these things entered awareness.

Having said all of that, my main question remains does anyone see this subject as having any relation to seeing illusion and seeing Truth?

[Keiju]

Originally Posted by Samurai Lincoln

This word..."illusion" ......seems to be pretty difficult and complicating. I think ultimately it ends up being understood in whatever way the mind is capable of understanding it. For example "difficult and complicating." Maybe there's something to that. Or maybe that's just mind wanting there to be something to that

What reoccurs (in some of the threads dealing with this type of subject matter) is the conversation about the difference between Truth and illusion. It's something that my mind has been trying to figure out..... with no progress if I'm being honest.

Recently I was watching some ads on television (this has a point I promise) and just seeing the ridiculous tones and obvious expressions of all the actors and how those things combine with the music in a way that (I guess) is supposed to appeal to different emotions...none of which has anything to do with the practicalities of what is being sold. For an example, Youtube any car commercial especially the one with the giant dancing hamsters....or are they gerbels...or perhaps guinea pigs.

To make the question short, does anyone else see the similarity of the rope-snake analogy and the goal of these ads, which is (imo) to basically get the mind to create an illusion around the product. Or am I just reaching?

Illusion = something that doesnt exist, but is percieved to exist. There is truth in the word.


Truth = something that does exist, and is also percieved to be true, though the perception of seeing something to be true is not required for something to be true.



With regards to advertising, The "illusion" that is being sold, includes truth in it, the process of "manufacturing consent" is a truth. The so called "illusion" in the context you use it, describes a number of process' that combines to make the successfull pitch of their product.


We can conclude that our understanding of reality is incorrect in relation to the actual reality of what is. Though we are not completely incorrect, given the successful application of what we understand to be true, to achieve what we want. In this sense, we can say, god being the benchmark upon which we measure ourselves against, god is 100% in truth, and everybody else is somewhere between 0-100%.

The model F = M A, is approximately 90% truth, 10% illusion, given it does not accurately predict F, in totality. Depending to what we apply it. In a different situation, i.e. more "extreme" conditions, the formula breaks down completely becoming 0% accurate or so.

Illusion requires that someone believe what is incorrect, to be true, so if one understood the shortcomings of the formula F = M A, completely, the formula to him is 100% truth, 0 % illusion.

[BillyTheAdult]

Originally Posted by Samurai Lincoln

This word..."illusion" ......seems to be pretty difficult and complicating. I think ultimately it ends up being understood in whatever way the mind is capable of understanding it. For example "difficult and complicating." Maybe there's something to that. Or maybe that's just mind wanting there to be something to that

What reoccurs (in some of the threads dealing with this type of subject matter) is the conversation about the difference between Truth and illusion. It's something that my mind has been trying to figure out..... with no progress if I'm being honest.

Recently I was watching some ads on television (this has a point I promise) and just seeing the ridiculous tones and obvious expressions of all the actors and how those things combine with the music in a way that (I guess) is supposed to appeal to different emotions...none of which has anything to do with the practicalities of what is being sold. For an example, Youtube any car commercial especially the one with the giant dancing hamsters....or are they gerbels...or perhaps guinea pigs.

To make the question short, does anyone else see the similarity of the rope-snake analogy and the goal of these ads, which is (imo) to basically get the mind to create an illusion around the product. Or am I just reaching?

..and on top that the mind is unable to discern truth from falsehood, so it basically accepts all the subconscious messages it's being sent as the truth, which are actually mainly geared around making you feel bad about yourself so you buy the product to feel better. This is reason I stopped watching television.

[AllTogetherNow]

actually mainly geared around making you feel bad about yourself so you buy the product to feel better.

exactly. imho the entire concept of "marketing" is nothing but manipulation; advertising is no longer just 'informing' the public about the merits of some product - the whole intention has now become to direct the viewer's emotions in the way the advertiser WANTS them to go. imho the entire industry has now become predicated upon deceit and manipulation, trying to 'make' the viewer feel some manufactured emotion. feh.

i still watch tv, but since i've had this understanding since childhood (advertising was dad's business and i got a thorough education on this from a very young age), i know what they're trying to do; it's pretty easy for me to distinguish the 'illusion' they are trying to create from 'truth' (whatever that may be for me personally) - so i don't fall for it. even if the subliminal effect may pique my interest in something after seeing an ad for it, that still doesn't mean i'll go out and buy it. I'll assess something for it's actual merits before i buy it, not base my purchases on a commercial i may have seen.

[BillyTheAdult]

Thanks for your agreement

Originally Posted by AllTogetherNow

i still watch tv, but since i've had this understanding since childhood (advertising was dad's business and i got a thorough education on this from a very young age), i know what they're trying to do; it's pretty easy for me to distinguish the 'illusion' they are trying to create from 'truth' (whatever that may be for me personally) - so i don't fall for it. even if the subliminal effect may pique my interest in something after seeing an ad for it, that still doesn't mean i'll go out and buy it. I'll assess something for it's actual merits before i buy it, not base my purchases on a commercial i may have seen.

Magic tricks still appear to be magic even after I know they're just a trick. Yes I don't run out and buy every product but there is a build up of unconscious guilt and shame that I am helping to grow every time I allow one of these messages in unquestioned and there is no way I have the time and energy to question every commercial I see every time I see it. It is largely about the unnatural amount of stress I seem to get from commercials that others don't seem to be so affected by. So I realize my best solution is not everyones best solution, but my best solution is just to cut tv entirely.

[Moriarty]

Here's a good real-life example of manipulation. One of my family visited her Club a few days ago and knows the staff well. She was asked if she'd mind posing for a few pictures being falsly paid out by staff for a jackpot she supposedly won on the poker machines. Would you call that false advertising?!!!

[Rimuel]

At its best marketing can be utilized to reach out for people who really need the product/service. At its worst, it is a tool to spread propagandas and half-truths.

Unfortunately since the world does consist of darkworkers, many times false or half-truths are propagated. The more businesses compete with each other, the more likely they will bend the truth. Also, the more difficult it is to justify a product/service (e.g. tobacco, insurance), the more distortions will occur.

Unfortunately some moral relativists will fall for this trick again and again.