Are you sure you do meditation

[gene2009]

I checked many sites in searching different meditations during some months. I find the many people do a relaxing instead of to do the true meditation. I found many so call gurus teach and even sell different relaxing methods as a meditation.
Sorry, but a relaxing and a meditation is 2 different things. Like ground and sky. I don't know to offence anyone but only few people the true meditation.
My broken English isn't allowed me to do deep writing on this topic. Well, if some guru says you imagine something during his way of meditation - it call a relaxing. If he tells you stop to think - it's not the true meditation too.
Imagine anything good or bad or an absence of any thought in your mind isn't the true meditation. During the true meditation - you being here, now, you're sharp feeling everything around you, you're a part of everything and you're a part of this moment.
Hmm, it was a bad idea to try to pick up the need words of describing this stuff with my poor English. Sure, somebody can find better, deep words to write it.
As for me, i like to do a relaxing. To do the true meditation is very hard work. It's impossible to study it online; words and images cannot pass it.

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by gene2009

To do the true meditation is very hard work.

I wouldn't call it "hard work". It just takes practice.

[nothuman]

Personally I find that everyone approaches meditation in different ways for different reasons. I never take to an approach that focuses too much on technique as this can have its own disadvantages by forfeiting the experience for aesthetics.
Simply do what you are drawn to do. The most valuable aspect I have taken from meditation is the practice itself. Simply turn up once or twice a day bum on floor and allow all to be. There you will find the simple benefit of a long term practice.

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by gene2009

I find the many people do a relaxing instead of to do the true meditation.

You are correct seems like everyone mistakes deep relaxation for meditation.

[gene2009]

Originally Posted by raykilleen

You are correct seems like everyone mistakes deep relaxation for meditation.

What i've seen in internet are different relaxtions, not the true meditation. I never said this is wrong. It's ok, if it helps people. However, i think a deep relaxation or a trance isn't a meditation.
Probable, i'm wrong but a meditation doesn't have synonyms at all. I think it's why impossible to study to meditate via internet. Maybe a word MEDITATION means different things for people.

[wanzulfikri]

Can you tell me what's this 'true meditation that you're talking about?

[ChristsLight]

Whatever you are doing in meditation, it is just as easy, and more rewarding, to do so in everyday life, instead of in a blocked-off span of time. If you want to just be, then just be all throughout the day.

[Weaver]

I have never been able to do the traditional (sitting or lying down) style of meditation as all i end up doing is like you said... relax. relaxation is still good and all but when i want to do what i have always felt is true meditation, i simply go out (alone) and be around nature, just randomly walking around. parks, wildlife, an ocean beach, they all do it for me.

[inconditus]

Originally Posted by gene2009

Maybe a word MEDITATION means different things for people.

This could be the issue at it's root. For me meditation simply means connecting with All That Is. If that can be reached through hiking, running, writing a book, traditional meditation, visualization, prayer etc. It is all meditation to me. If deep relaxation dissolves the stresses of this existence enough for that person to feel Oneness then that is meditation.

[bodi]

I agree with the OP's basic message.

If you just want to make words mean whatever you want them to mean, then fine, good for you, but you are impeding understanding, not furthering it or being 'deep'.

Meditation is training to empty the mind and be in the moment fully.

The kind of empty mindedness that comes from say, watching tv, or hiking or whatever, is not the same as that experienced in meditation. Period.

Everyone just wants an easy way, and yes, real meditation takes effort and work.

[siryessir08]

Meditation........................................ ...................

So you would like to define it?

Isn't the definition of a term usually what the collective whole of the speakers of a language believe it to be?

Here's a definition from a great representative of the masses:
"Meditation is any form of a family of practices in which practitioners train their minds or self-induce a mode of consciousness to realize some benefit."
-Wikipedia

I would say that meditation can encompass many things, including relaxation, by going with that definition.

There are an incredible number of practices that are described as meditation, and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

If you want meditations that specifically concentrate on helping you achieve an awareness of the present moment, then more specific Google searches would be recommended.

Also, to bodi, I would have to disagree that hiking can be compared to watching TV as far as meditative value is concerned. I do agree that watching TV is almost never meditative; however, many people (including myself) use hiking for meditative practice.
You define meditation as, "Meditation is training to empty the mind and be in the moment fully."
While this is most easily achieved when laying down and ignoring external stimuli, one can reach a meditative state pretty easily while hiking also. It's best done alone... one's interaction is with the plants and animals. Plants and animals are always in the present moment, and by being around them and connecting with them, their vibrational state can rub off on you.

There is a lot of value in open eye meditation. If one only lays down to meditate... then how can they bring the present moment into their everyday life.

"Pray with ceasing." -Bible

[bodi]

Originally Posted by siryessir08

Isn't the definition of a term usually what the collective whole of the speakers of a language believe it to be?

This is very deceptive because it certainly is true, but only to a point and from a certain point of view. Certainly language only works if the users of it can agree on terms and meaning. However, the actual workings of language are more complex than simply “every word means what the mass of users believe it to mean”. Language is fuzzy.

Take the term quark, a certain kind of elementary particle from quantum physics. Now, the term was invented and is used by physicists. They have a certain understanding of what it means. Then you have the mass, layman’s understanding of what it means.

These, of course, are not the same. How do you interpret the meaning? By what physicists think and describe? Or by general consensus?

Some words have specific meanings that are not related to how many people believe a certain definition.

UFO is another good one. It simply means Unidentified Flying Object. So if you see a plane but don’t know what it is, and no one else does, either, then by god, it’s a bona fide UFO, because it‘s flying, and it‘s an object, and it‘s unidentified.

Of course, many people think UFO means ‘flying saucer from outer space’ but it doesn’t, and that isn’t going to change no matter how many people think it does.

What happened in both cases is that a folk usage has been created, which obscures and confusticates the actual technical meaning.

Meditation is a technical term, and it is being confused with a colloquial meaning here, and unfortunately too widely across the net, too.

Especially by this New Age mindset that 'reality is whatever I say it is". This is devolution. This is not to say that hiking can’t be spiritual, it can. But it isn’t meditation.

Here's a definition from a great representative of the masses:
"Meditation is any form of a family of practices in which practitioners train their minds or self-induce a mode of consciousness to realize some benefit."
-Wikipedia

That's actually not a bad definition, (although somewhat vague and even a little misleading. i.e. - users of psychedelics are 'self-inducing a mode of consciousness to realize some benefit', but I don't think that qualifies as meditation) but be careful what you include in that 'family' of practices.

As a side note, I’m not so sure that Wikipedia (although I love and use it) is “a great representative of the masses”.

Figure roughly 2,095,006,005 online (Internet World Stats). That’s about 1 in 3. Figure in how many speak English, use wikipedia, and then contribute to wikipedia, and then contribute about this one term, and I’m pretty sure it’s not representative of world useage.

Also, to bodi, I would have to disagree that hiking can be compared to watching TV as far as meditative value is concerned.

Sorry to confuse. I wasn’t equating them, just giving different examples of things that cause a state of “empty mindedness”. Watching tv turns the brain off, IMO, whereas hiking certainly can be enlightening. Different kinds of empty mindedness.

You define meditation as, "Meditation is training to empty the mind and be in the moment fully."

While this is most easily achieved when laying down and ignoring external stimuli, one can reach a meditative state pretty easily while hiking also.

Laying down and ignoring external stimuli generally leads to sleep, not Samadhi.

Although hiking and such can bring about a state of mind similar and related to the state meditation brings (although not nearly so deep or complete), it still isn’t meditation. To confuse things further, I don't disagree that one can meditate while hiking.

None of this is to say that there isn't a broad spectrum of methods and techniques that qualify as real meditation, because there is.

It's just that meditation is not simply anything that makes you feel connected or spiritual or peaceful or relaxed.

It has a much more specific, technical meaning, and if we insist on philosophical egalitarianism on this we will eventually distort and diffuse and thus lose a great part of our human heritage.

[gene2009]

This is very interesting to know how other people understand, feel and do it. Really, I don't try to state what's wrong or right.
Maybe for somebody watching TV is a meditation, ok. It’s his business at all. For me the true meditation cannot change or split on parts never. It's ONE and WHOLE. I agree there're the different ways to enter into the meditation, but it isn't so easy or fast.

There's a ton of different 20 minutes' meditations in google for hurry modern people.
Just one example, i registered in one of the sites offers a free meditation. That guru has been studied different methods of meditations for 20 years. He is enlightened. He created his unique meditation and wrote an e-book on it. I followed to him because it sounded good for me. Well, i read his 14 pages' ebook and listened his 10 minutes audio file with unique meditation and i found nothing unique there. However, that was only the 1st level of his meditation. The 2nd level costs money. I stopped because i couldn't more trust that guru. How he can be an enlightened master if he's still hunting for money? Why he doesn't provide his method free. People will donate him much more money than he ever imagines if his method is real unique.
There're so many guru-businessmen in our days. Say, why Buddhist monks meditate hours during many years if it's so easy? Many people use a word MEDITATION where they should better use words as PASSIVE REST.

I beg your pardon, but probably sitting in the toilet is the sort of meditation for somebody too.

[bodi]

probably sitting in the toilet is the sort of meditation for somebody too

lol, that reminds me of Robin Williams...you know...where you're having this awesome bowel movement that's almost spiritual................uunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwww wwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gene2009]

Originally Posted by bodi

lol, that reminds me of Robin Williams...you know...where you're having this awesome bowel movement that's almost spiritual................uunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwww wwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ha,ha

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by gene2009

What i've seen in internet are different relaxtions, not the true meditation. I never said this is wrong. It's ok, if it helps people. However, i think a deep relaxation or a trance isn't a meditation.
Probable, i'm wrong but a meditation doesn't have synonyms at all. I think it's why impossible to study to meditate via internet. Maybe a word MEDITATION means different things for people.

Relaxation may be a pleasant side effect of one’s meditation practice; whether or not effort to discipline the mind will help one towards spontaneous arousal of meditation is open to debate.

[bodi]

Originally Posted by raykilleen

whether or not effort to discipline the mind will help one towards spontaneous arousal of meditation is open to debate.

Meditation is effort to discipline the mind. It's training. It's mental exercise.

This statement doesn't make sense to me.

It's like saying "whether or not push ups and pull ups will help one towards spontaneous arousal of calisthenics is open to debate...."

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by bodi

Meditation is effort to discipline the mind. It's training. It's mental exercise.

This statement doesn't make sense to me.

It's like saying "whether or not push ups and pull ups will help one towards spontaneous arousal of calisthenics is open to debate...."

A common meditation suggestion is that one must train the mind to a point, practicing, exercising, gaining mastery through effort allowing access and control of the three levels of consciousness and beyond, perhaps meditation is a purely spontaneous occurrence of unity? Hence debate.

[stanmrak]

I use a meditation technology that uses "binaural" beats. All you do is put on headphones and the sound puts your mind into a deep meditation state - deeper than someone who's been meditating for 20 years, with ZERO effort or practice.
I expect that the purists will scoff, but I've been using this daily for 6+ years and it works like crazy. There are many other meditation programs out there, but make sure they use the binaural-beat technology.
I have never even attempted traditional meditation because it's too much effort.

More info here: Immrama Institute ? Brainwave audio for health and wellness

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by stanmrak

I use a meditation technology that uses "binaural" beats. All you do is put on headphones and the sound puts your mind into a deep meditation state - deeper than someone who's been meditating for 20 years, with ZERO effort or practice.
I expect that the purists will scoff, but I've been using this daily for 6+ years and it works like crazy. There are many other meditation programs out there, but make sure they use the binaural-beat technology.
I have never even attempted traditional meditation because it's too much effort.

More info here: [url=http://www.immrama.org/[/url]

Cool, does Ebay have a machine that measures clarity?

[FlabRoshi]

No I'm not sure.

Are you?

[arpee]

gene2009, it sounds like you are talking about mindful meditation or transcendental meditation.

[stanmrak]

As I understand it, traditional meditation is designed to still the mind. In a deep meditative state, the brainwaves slow down and your brain develops an enhanced physical connection between the left and right half of your brain. Dysfunctional behaviors occur when the two halves of the brain are in opposition to each other. Meditation balances this, and creates the 'oneness' associated with enlightened thinking, rather than the separation that is more typical of human thought patterns.

The binaural-beat technology creates the exact same brainwave patterns that are present in traditional deep meditation; this has been verified with brainwave-scanning instruments. If you use this technology every day for just a few months, you won't need scientific proof; you'll know that it works.

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by stanmrak

As I understand it, traditional meditation is designed to still the mind. In a deep meditative state, the brainwaves slow down and your brain develops an enhanced physical connection between the left and right half of your brain. Dysfunctional behaviors occur when the two halves of the brain are in opposition to each other. Meditation balances this, and creates the 'oneness' associated with enlightened thinking, rather than the separation that is more typical of human thought patterns.

The binaural-beat technology creates the exact same brainwave patterns that are present in traditional deep meditation; this has been verified with brainwave-scanning instruments. If you use this technology every day for just a few months, you won't need scientific proof; you'll know that it works.

Ok and I consider what you describe as deep relaxation different than Dharana, Dhyāna or Samadhi the oldest traditions of record, proof (conformation) comes from direct experience.

[wolfgang]

relaxing is a big part of meditation, to me. however, sometimes I relax into the tensions that remain. and also sometimes I find a meditative state during very active body activities, like surfing or taichi or playing music. I get into the zone and forget about myself.

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

relaxing is a big part of meditation, to me. however, sometimes I relax into the tensions that remain. and also sometimes I find a meditative state during very active body activities, like surfing or taichi or playing music. I get into the zone and forget about myself.

It's a nice place to go, right?

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by raykilleen

It's a nice place to go, right?

ohm

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

relaxing is a big part of meditation, to me. however, sometimes I relax into the tensions that remain.

Experiment with the experience of tension the same way you’d experienced relaxation, then let go further, easing all aversion/attraction, no judgment simply a witness of pure experience, applicable to all dualistic perceptions, pain/pleasure etc.

[gene2009]

Raykilleen, it seems Bodi has answered for me. A goal of a meditation isn't 20 minutes' euphoria or a deep relax after which you're back to the reality. I think the true meditation is a tool to rebuild yourserf for a daily happiness and beyond. Getting 20 minutes joy, relax or reverie with closed eyes isn't a meditation as for me.

---------

Wolfgan, when i swimming or play chess i forget about myself and everything around. However, i cannot call it a meditation. This is just focusing on the object or the action. A good boxer only sees his target into the ring. He doesn't hear people around the ring, he focus on the work he is doing right now. So, he is doing a meditation at that moment, really?

--------

Arpee, do you mean mindfulness meditation?

[gene2009]

Originally Posted by stanmrak

I have never even attempted traditional meditation because it's too much effort.[/url]

Exactly. This why many people want but cannot do it. And they buy or make up something and call it a meditation. Again, if it works for somebody, it's ok. I just disagree to call it a meditation.