Are you sure you do meditation

[raykilleen]

Originally Posted by gene2009

Raykilleen, it seems Bodi has answered for me. A goal of a meditation isn't 20 minutes' euphoria or a deep relax after which you're back to the reality. I think the true meditation is a tool to rebuild yourserf for a daily happiness and beyond. Getting 20 minutes joy, relax or reverie with closed eyes isn't a meditation as for me.

I’m not sure which post of mine you’re referring to in this thread, in the old days I would have suggested setting goals and establishing expectations for meditation will hinder more than help but I realized no matter how much conceptual nonsense ones head is filled with the spontaneous happens.

This guy use to live in PA, a skip and jump from me, he describes similar to what yoga informed me of meditation, explore and understand what you may be doing? Yoga Sutras of Patanjali 3.1-3.3: Dharana, Dhyana, Samadhi, rungs #6, #7, and #8

[frosting]

I don't personally think there is "one true" kind of meditation. From my experience there are many different kinds of meditation that all count.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by gene2009

Wolfgan, when i swimming or play chess i forget about myself and everything around. However, i cannot call it a meditation. This is just focusing on the object or the action. A good boxer only sees his target into the ring. He doesn't hear people around the ring, he focus on the work he is doing right now. So, he is doing a meditation at that moment, really?

very well. I have failed at your definition of meditation.

[bodi]

Originally Posted by stanmrak

All you do is put on headphones and the sound puts your mind into a deep meditation state - deeper than someone who's been meditating for 20 years, with ZERO effort or practice.

I'm sorry. This simply isn't true. It's a good marketing ploy, though....

[theuprising]

My brain hurts from gene's english.

Um there are many different types of meditation, and I think the "relaxing method" you are talking about is voidness meditation, clearing the mind of all. This is not a "useless" task, as enlightened states of thinking occur in a clear mind and can connect you more with yourself.

You are under the impression that transcendental meditation is the only true mediation?

[theuprising]

Originally Posted by bodi

I'm sorry. This simply isn't true. It's a good marketing ploy, though....

bodi stop being so arrogant. Binaural beats CAN help you get in that "zone" of voidness and peace that comes with normal voidness meditation. If you've ever tried it. Though its kind of like training wheels, you can only go where it takes you.

[bodi]

I don't think i'm being arrogant. Binaurals are useful, sure.

However, they DO NOT "put your mind into a deep meditation state - deeper than someone who's been meditating for 20 years, with ZERO effort or practice."

[stanmrak]

Originally Posted by gene2009

Exactly. This why many people want but cannot do it. And they buy or make up something and call it a meditation. Again, if it works for somebody, it's ok. I just disagree to call it a meditation.

ha ha ha... based on what? You apparently haven't even tried it!

[stanmrak]

Originally Posted by bodi

I don't think i'm being arrogant. Binaurals are useful, sure.

However, they DO NOT "put your mind into a deep meditation state - deeper than someone who's been meditating for 20 years, with ZERO effort or practice."

This has been measured on state-of-the-art brain scan instruments... what's your evidence? Have you actually tried it over a period of time?

You may not be arrogant, but you're not enlightened either .

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by stanmrak

This has been measured on state-of-the-art brain scan instruments... what's your evidence? Have you actually tried it over a period of time?

hey, I was just wondering... when playing music if certain tempos and the resulting beats entrain you to certain brain waves(?)

Because you might be actually playing a rhythm that is actually a theta brain wave frequency, for example.

[bodi]

Originally Posted by stanmrak

what's your evidence? Have you actually tried it over a period of time?

I've practiced meditation, especially traditional zazen, but also many other forms, including qigong, yoga, daoist methods, and also a lot of western methods as well, for about 27 years or so.

In that time I have also rigorously investigated, researched and experimented with many kinds of gadgets, widgets, devices, and other technical methods that involve the brain/mind and consciousness. Binaurals, light therapy, both light and sound together (which is my favorite) in the form of SLED's or AVI's, CES, Biofeedback, and others.

As an independent neurotech researcher, I have done a great deal of work with binaurals. I follow the research of others, as well as doing my own. I have written many binaural programs myself, and have observed and interviewed thousands of people who have used both my programs and others.

I'll upload some pictures to an album from a SLED (Sound and Light Entrainment Device) setup I did at one of the consciousness expos I attend, if you want to have a look.

Anyway, sure you can hook someone up to an EEG and determine that the brain does in fact, exhibit the frequency following effect, or entrainment, with binaurals, although they affect everyone differently - some stronger, some weaker, some hardly at all. The individual has a great deal to do with how effective they are. They certainly can affect consciousness, and are quite useful as a tool, and I use them myself and have for a long, long time.

However, this is a far, far cry from "they put your mind into a deep meditation state - deeper than someone who's been meditating for 20 years, with ZERO effort or practice."

They simply don't take one to the same state.

Originally Posted by stanmrak

You may not be arrogant, but you're not enlightened either .

Of course not. I never claimed to be. But I do know a little.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by bodi

I've practiced meditation, especially traditional zazen, but also many other forms, including qigong, yoga, daoist methods, and also a lot of western methods as well, for about 27 years or so.

In that time I have also rigorously investigated, researched and experimented with many kinds of gadgets, widgets, devices, and other technical methods that involve the brain/mind and consciousness. Binaurals, light therapy, both light and sound together (which is my favorite) in the form of SLED's or AVI's, CES, Biofeedback, and others.

As an independent neurotech researcher, I have done a great deal of work with binaurals. I follow the research of others, as well as doing my own. I have written many binaural programs myself. I have observed and interviewed thousands of people who have used both my programs and others.

I'll upload some pictures to an album from a SLED (Sound and Light Entrainment Device) setup I did at one of the consciousness expos I attend, if you want to have a look.

Anyway, sure you can hook someone up to an EEG and determine that the brain does in fact, exhibit the frequency following effect, or entrainment, with binaurals, although they affect everyone differently - some stronger, some weaker, some hardly at all. The individual has a great deal to do with how effective they are. They certainly can affect consciousness, and are quite useful as a tool, and I use them myself and have for a long, long time.

However, this is a far, far cry from "they put your mind into a deep meditation state - deeper than someone who's been meditating for 20 years, with ZERO effort or practice."

They simply don't take one to the same state.



Of course not. I never claimed to be. But I do know a little.

As someone that has gone in depth with audio entrainment I would like to ask you a couple things.

Does running the same audio over and over make it less effective? Like if I have a theta binaural and play it during sessions all the time, will I become desensitized to the entrainment?

Are the fancy binaural audios more effective than just a straight theta tone/blip that stays at one frequency? Like some start at beta and go down to theta, while others are even just a theta metronome. And then some have the binaural tones but no extra sound scape entertainment factors.

Lastly, is there a system that uses EEG feedback to pull you to a target brain wave? This is an idea that a computer would take your EEG and output a slightly lower binaural tone with some algorithm as to how much lower this is or even to match your EEG for a bit.

Such that the binaural tones are not too far ahead of your real EEG and maybe this would provide more efficient entrainment. And once the target brain wave is being produced, the program will match you and maybe wiggle up and down a bit based on how well your EEG can track the binaural tones.

Or maybe there's no benefit to this kind of approach. My experience has been sometimes the binaural entrains me while other times it doesn't but if I switch to a different one that one does work.

[bodi]

hey wolf,

I'll be happy to answer these and any other questions you have, but let's start a new thread. It's just a little off topic for this one. I'll write one up with your answers this afternoon.

[bodi]

Personal Neurotech and EEG's.

[MaryAnneMc]

For me, meditation is the portal to special work, astral projection, accessing the Akashic Record, having a little meeting with my true blue me. I come out feeling 'better' or 'healed' or 'repaired'. It is relaxing I guess, but to relax, I usually read a book. Or sit in a hot tub, or have a moment or two with my man.

[MaryAnneMc]

Originally Posted by stanmrak

I use a meditation technology that uses "binaural" beats. All you do is put on headphones and the sound puts your mind into a deep meditation state - deeper than someone who's been meditating for 20 years, with ZERO effort or practice.
I expect that the purists will scoff, but I've been using this daily for 6+ years and it works like crazy. There are many other meditation programs out there, but make sure they use the binaural-beat technology.
I have never even attempted traditional meditation because it's too much effort.

More info here: Immrama Institute ? Brainwave audio for health and wellness

Binaural beats have to be used correctly from my experience. I have one client that had a negative Kundalini spin-out from using them.

Traditional meditation is time consuming, I agree, but if you're working on a particular issue or looking for specific information or understanding on a topic, it's very necessary. It's good to have a target to work toward though in meditation, a problem to solve, etc. I've never found it the most effective way to 'just relax'.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by MaryAnneMc

having a little meeting with my true blue me.

Are you astral traveling to Avatar world?

[MaryAnneMc]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Are you astral traveling to Avatar world?

Are you making fun of me?

I am Astral traveling, but not to Hollywood.

[Prinie]

I talk out loud in my car to the force that's always with me or I write and this is my way receiving insight. Is that a form of meditation or mindfulness?

[bodi]

Originally Posted by Prinie

I talk out loud in my car to the force that's always with me or I write and this is my way receiving insight. Is that a form of meditation or mindfulness?

I would maybe call that communing or something similar. Not meditation.

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by bodi

I would maybe call that communing or something similar. Not meditation.

Thanks bodi. I'll remember to use that word instead from now on.

[theuprising]

Originally Posted by Prinie

I talk out loud in my car to the force that's always with me or I write and this is my way receiving insight. Is that a form of meditation or mindfulness?

this is meditation in the western sense. You're "meditating" on a problem, meditation the word itself just means to have focus. What bodi thinks is the "only" meditation is transcendental meditation.

Though transcendental meditation may be the most useful form of meditation. I'm not sure what the buddha did, I think he did voidness meditation and identified with voidness despite every temptation for attachment being thrown his way. He said it was important to be able to think when you are in a state of voidness, so I think he did voidness mediation and then contemplated on the problem of suffering until he got an answer.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, that's my understanding of it.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by MaryAnneMc

Are you making fun of me?

I am Astral traveling, but not to Hollywood.

Just joking around. What are you referring to as your 'true blue me'?

[MaryAnneMc]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Just joking around. What are you referring to as your 'true blue me'?

I do astral travel during meditation. It's a form of mystical meditation I learned that gets me very focused. I connect with my spiritual self during this time. It's a visual experience that helps me to really focus on my meditation time. There's an actual location I travel to, in a very specific celestial place. There is a spiritual "me" in this place. The spiritual me is blue. Yep, don't know why, but I am blue in spirit.

[gene2009]

Originally Posted by stanmrak

ha ha ha... based on what? You apparently haven't even tried it!

This is based on things which i've seen, felt and heard around. Are you sure?

[gene2009]

Originally Posted by theuprising

My brain hurts from gene's english.

Um there are many different types of meditation, and I think the "relaxing method" you are talking about is voidness meditation, clearing the mind of all. This is not a "useless" task, as enlightened states of thinking occur in a clear mind and can connect you more with yourself.

You are under the impression that transcendental meditation is the only true mediation?

Theuprising, yeah, i found it called a transcendental meditation in English. Ok, i'm sorry i called it the true meditation. TRUE is a very personal word for everyone.
-----

I'm surprised this topic still gets posts.

[redemption]

I think relaxation is a direct by-product of meditation. What is relaxation anyways? A sense of calm and peaceful mental state. How does that state come into existence? By calming the mind and letting go of the ego perhaps.

I have stayed at countless temples in South Korea and also in Canada. At each temple stay the master yogi always said "Meditation is what you make it". Its about existence and non-existence. There is no absolute or "right" way of meditating. I am sure many people will debate it. But from my experience, I try many meditation techniques and decide which one I prefer.

Regards,
R

[stanmrak]

Well maybe all those benefits I've been getting by using binaural beats are a placebo effect. (LOL) I've lost count of how many miraculous transformational experiences I've had since I started meditating this way. I find them somewhat astonishing, actually, since I didn't expend any effort to produce them. These moments occur seemingly on their own, out of the blue. Situations that have caused stress or upset in the past just don't anymore, and negative thoughts that pop into my head bounce right out. Most dysfunctional behaviors have virtually vanished.