What is prayer, and how do you do it?

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Not so. As I've said, you have two choices for responding to an emotion: give in to it and allow it to take control, or to learn from it and notice that something has been believed that has been manifested in this emotion. The awareness of this belief collapses it.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, nor an I sure you appreciate it too greatly.

In any case, whatever it is that you are referring to as a 'belief' may well collapse, yet the emotions underpinning it will NOT.

One cannot see that which is not within oneself.

Well indeed the tendency towards delusion exists in all of us, and one only needs to look at the religious, the many scientists (also religious) of this world, folk who believe it is a good thing to lie to their children at this time of year about a jolly fat bloke in a red suit etc. to recognise abounding evidence for this.

Therefore I also have this tendency - AS DO YOU. Yet it would be apparent you aren't cognisant of this fact, so that in itself could be regarded as a delusion, huh?

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, nor an I sure you appreciate it too greatly.

In any case, whatever it is that you are referring to as a 'belief' may well collapse, yet the emotions underpinning it will NOT.

This is what gives away that you are just speaking from intellect, not from experience. The underlying emotion does indeed collapse along with the belief that gave root to it. It is actually quite amazing to behold when it occurs. The emotion is not the problem, as ChrisGinsburg points out, but it is a beautiful teaching aid, and disappears when it is no longer needed.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

This is what gives away that you are just speaking from intellect, not from experience. The underlying emotion does indeed collapse along with the belief that gave root to it. It is actually quite amazing to behold when it occurs. The emotion is not the problem, as ChrisGinsburg points out, but it is a beautiful teaching aid, and disappears when it is no longer needed.

What you are calling emotions, I refer to as feelings or perhaps moods do NOT collapse. They wane, are increased or replaced with another feeling/mood which in turn arises from memory due to some new impetus from the sensory system.

Alternatively they are dealt with through A conscious awareness (of them) and the choice to focus more upon their nemesis - Intelligence.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

What you are calling emotions, I refer to as feelings or perhaps moods do NOT collapse. They wane, are increased or replaced with another feeling/mood which in turn arises from memory due to some new impetus from the sensory system.

Alternatively they are dealt with through A conscious awareness (of them) and the choice to focus more upon their nemesis - Intelligence.

I know that this is your theology, but again, this is quite opposite of my experience.

Do you have anything else besides your logical intellectualization to rest on? I'm simply not seeing the truth of what you are saying.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

What you are calling emotions, I refer to as feelings or perhaps moods do NOT collapse. They wane, are increased or replaced with another feeling/mood which in turn arises from memory due to some new impetus from the sensory system.

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

I know that this is your theology, but again, this is quite opposite of my experience.

Same here. In my experience, emotions can be dissolved ('collapsed' is a bit much, for a descriptive) through self-love.

Eckhart Tolle's pain-body work is a prime example of how this can be done.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

What you are calling emotions, I refer to as feelings or perhaps moods do NOT collapse. They wane, are increased or replaced with another feeling/mood which in turn arises from memory due to some new impetus from the sensory system.

Alternatively they are dealt with through A conscious awareness (of them) and the choice to focus more upon their nemesis - Intelligence.

Emotions as a whole do not collapse nor is that even an issue. Emotions are a moving river of phenomenon which appear and disappear just as quickly as they were noticed. They merge into each other and are defined by their opposites. To the one who sees themselves being carried along in this river it can seem torturous and the only way to solve this is to become emotionless or keep emotions under check.

The truth is that you are not a phenomenon appearing that is rising and falling. The very movement of emotions is appearing within the awareness that you are and in this knowing there is no problem. Collapsing false beliefs also collapses emotions and struggle that accompanied them but is not the end of the river itself. One can taste the nectar of collapsing false beliefs and moving towards truth but it is only when the entire belief system itself is seen to be false that suffering is clearly seen to not be a result of what emotion happens to be appearing but the struggle and story that ensues with it. You are peace itself. There is no emotion that can threaten or divide you without your belief that it may.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

I know that this is your theology, but again, this is quite opposite of my experience.

I'm not sure if you are working to excite anger in me or what, but your reference to 'my theology' is quite offensive. You will NOT, repeat NOT find any theologian or religion preaching what I am sharing here.

Nor am I religious by any dimension, so please keep your personal theology to yourself, thank you very much.

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Do you have anything else besides your logical intellectualization to rest on? I'm simply not seeing the truth of what you are saying.

Quite frankly, I very much doubt the impossible will ever become the possible - this side of eternity at least.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

I'm not sure if you are working to excite anger in me or what, but your reference to 'my theology' is quite offensive. You will NOT, repeat NOT find any theologian or religion preaching what I am sharing here.

Nor am I religious by any dimension, so please keep your personal theology to yourself, thank you very much.

I find it interesting that you find "theology" something to get so angry about.

If you prefer, we shall call it your "metaphysics." Either way, I still don't find any line of agreement with it.

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Quite frankly, I very much doubt the impossible will ever become the possible - this side of eternity at least.

All things are possible.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Same here. In my experience, emotions can be dissolved ('collapsed' is a bit much, for a descriptive) through self-love.

Eckhart Tolle's pain-body work is a prime example of how this can be done.

Emtions do NOT dissolve nor collapse, even though they may appear to dissipate to some extent, to be replaced by another sensation.

They are a storage in our memory banks, a linkage into our past circumstances and of course the emotions, all based to an extent upon fear, that arose from such particulars. In other words, we don't so much as remember the incident/occurrence of which we were a part, but rather we again tap into the feelings with which we walked away from it, and from there we recall the particulars associated with those emotions.

So we might reason that the anger I felt yesterday has collapsed, vanished or dissipated, being replaced with happiness today, yet all that is an illusion, for the emotions associated with recalled past events remain unabated in our memory banks, to be again recalled the next time something similar to those circumstances eventuates, and again excites their recollection into our consciousness for yet another round.

Psychologists and therapists earn their living through such remnants of the past, many of which become repressed memories due to the inordinate fear they generated. So until we can become confortable with those past particulars, and better still; be thankful for them, rather than accept fear as the only applicable emotion, we will to some extent continue to be haunted by their memory. And consequently continue to be a slave to our emotions.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

I find it interesting that you find "theology" something to get so angry about.

There is a vast chasm between my recognising your poor attempt to excite anger, referencing recognition of this, and getting 'so angry about' it.

However interesting you may find it - I most certainly was NOT/am NOT angry. You will disagree with this of course, as this appears the style of manipulative game you are inclined to play on this forum.

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

If you prefer, we shall call it your "metaphysics." Either way, I still don't find any line of agreement with it.

Call it whatever you like, Either way it doesn't surprise to any degree that you fail to find agreement, for your theology would detest it, huh?

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

All things are possible.

Please let us all know when you've converted a pile of concrete into a living tree. Then your grandiose theology might be worth the credit you proclaim.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Emotions as a whole do not collapse nor is that even an issue. Emotions are a moving river of phenomenon which appear and disappear just as quickly as they were noticed. They merge into each other and are defined by their opposites. To the one who sees themselves being carried along in this river it can seem torturous and the only way to solve this is to become emotionless or keep emotions under check.

The truth is that you are not a phenomenon appearing that is rising and falling. The very movement of emotions is appearing within the awareness that you are and in this knowing there is no problem. Collapsing false beliefs also collapses emotions and struggle that accompanied them but is not the end of the river itself. One can taste the nectar of collapsing false beliefs and moving towards truth but it is only when the entire belief system itself is seen to be false that suffering is clearly seen to not be a result of what emotion happens to be appearing but the struggle and story that ensues with it. You are peace itself. There is no emotion that can threaten or divide you without your belief that it may.

Please Chris, is there another way the above can be expressed, so that I may get a handle on what you are saying? I mean, I resonate with a sentence here and there, but I've no idea how the context between them supports these as such.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

There is a vast chasm between my recognising your poor attempt to excite anger, referencing recognition of this, and getting 'so angry about' it.

However interesting you may find it - I most certainly was NOT/am NOT angry. You will disagree with this of course, as this appears the style of manipulative game you are inclined to play on this forum.

I find it so interesting, because there was never an attempt to "excite anger." This is all of your own mind's delusion and a story it is spinning around my posts. There is also not any "manipulation."

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Call it whatever you like, Either way it doesn't surprise to any degree that you fail to find agreement, for your theology would detest it, huh?

It just sounds like an intellectual's attempt to understand Truth, and the belief that such is actually possible from that standpoint. I've long ago seen the limitations of mind, yet you refuse to look beyond it, so this would be the source of our talking past one another.

Of course, as in all religions, and why I called this a theology, all who disagree with these beliefs are belittled, however subtly, by your posts. It is because the mind has a need to be right.

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Please let us all know when you've converted a pile of concrete into a living tree. Then your grandiose theology might be worth the credit you proclaim.

When one realizes that neither the pile of concrete, nor the tree, has any real existence, then we see that "impossibility" does not play into it.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

It is because the mind has a need to be right.

I'm not inclined to apologise for, nor taper off calling a spade a spade, no matter how manipulative anyone becomes.

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

I find it so interesting, because there was never an attempt to "excite anger." This is all of your own mind's delusion and a story it is spinning around my posts. There is also not any "manipulation."

As previously noted; by it's very nature delusion is delusional, meaning the one deluded is the last person to see it. If manipulation is not your intention, then perhaps you might cease the manipulation and pretense, both of which support your delusion as such, huh?

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

It just sounds like an intellectual's attempt to understand Truth, and the belief that such is actually possible from that standpoint. I've long ago seen the limitations of mind, yet you refuse to look beyond it, so this would be the source of our talking past one another.

Yet you don't appreciate definitions, so I've no idea whatsoever you infer by 'mind', so the source of 'us talking past one another', would appear to be your ongoing evasion, reticence to explain what you mean. Nice sounding terminology might suffice for some absent-minded folk, yet if you don't have a verifiable source to underpin them, they will never be enough for authentic questioning.

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

When one realizes that neither the pile of concrete, nor the tree, has any real existence, then we see that "impossibility" does not play into it.

Please, like ALG let us all know when you've walked through a non-existent tree or non-existent slab of concrete. Otherwise you might perhaps do well to recognise, accept your delusion, and then accept some help.

[Beingist]

I don't think CL is delusional or manipulative. To be perfectly frank, I think most of the time he's dead balls spot on.

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

To me, the only true prayer is a sensation of gratitude in oneself, for one's life, for the beauty of all that exists throughout all of creation.

Other than that, prayer is begging for something that one can't seem to provide for himself. On a planet so abundant that it provides all the resources and food necessary to keep everything alive on it and room for more, man still can't seem to realize how rich he really is.

So in spiritual poverty, man begs.

In self-realization, man trips over himself in awe of life. That to me is prayer. All I need is already here AND I see it!

Begging prayers are not seeing that we already have it all

This ^^^^ A million times this!!

I spent quite a few years praying with absolutely ZERO results. I didnt start getting results until I adopted "Law of Attraction" into my life. LOA completely changed my life, but prayer did nothing but waste my time plus give me false hope.

And all those faith healers, tele-evangelists and phony Christians can kiss my ass

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Frisky

I spent quite a few years praying with absolutely ZERO results. I didnt start getting results until I adopted "Law of Attraction" into my life.

Oddly enough, this was my experience, also. I moved on from the LoA, but it indeed sparked something for me (or rather, re-sparked).

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Oddly enough, this was my experience, also

Good for you!

Originally Posted by Beingist

I moved on from the LoA

You mean you stopped LOA again??
Why would you do that??

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Frisky

You mean you stopped LOA again??
Why would you do that??

Simply put, because there's more to stuff than just the LoA. I still see some Truth in Jesus, but there's more to stuff than just Jesus, also.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by Beingist

I don't think CL is delusional or manipulative. To be perfectly frank, I think most of the time he's dead balls spot on.

Well my friend, I truly appreciate your contribution into all this. For I am well and truly over it, myself.

[Frisky]

Let me give you guys an example of a conversation I had with a church minister regarding prayer.:


Frisky: I cant get prayer to work
Minister: Well, why not?? How come when I pray God answers me
Frisky: I have no idea why not
Minister: Maybe because you're into some type of sin??
Frisky: Who isnt a sinner and into some type of sin??
Minister: *with very self-righteous look on his face* "I'm not"
Frisky: So all your prayers are answered then??
Minister: Yes
Frisky: What about your daughter who has MS?? Didnt you pray for her to get healed??
Minister: *getting slightly annoyed* Well yes, but the Lord works in mysterious ways.
Frisky: So not all your prayers are answered then??
Minister: *getting more angrier* That particular prayer wasnt, no
Frisky: Then how can you say God answers your prayers??
Minister: *now getting very upset* We dont have a right to question God's motives
Frisky: But you just said God answers your prayers. How can you say that, when a very important prayer regarding your daughters health goes unanswered??


Anywho, to make a long story short, the Minister walked away mad and I never saw him again after that

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by Bluth

I'm interested in hearing peoples take on prayer and what purpose it serves in their life.

Bluth,

What is prayer, and how do you do it ?

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."
(Matt. 7:7-8)

Why ? Because the solutions we seek PRECEDE our need. What you ask for already exists before you ask; what you seek already exists before you find it; and the door you knock upon opens to the answer you want....or you would be utterly unable to ask, or seek, or knock in the first place.....if what you desired were itself not already available to be received, found, or opened....

....exactly like the availability of air (answered prayer) precedes your need to breath it (prayer request). Do you see ?

Breath deeply....

"The trick, according to Chiang, was for Jonathan to stop seeing himself as trapped inside a limited body that had a forty-two-inch wingspan and performance that could be plotted on a chart. The trick was to know that his true nature lived, as perfect as an unwritten number, everywhere at once across space and time." "To fly as fast as thought, to anywhere that is,” he said, “you must begin by knowing that you have already arrived" "Perfect speed is being there."

Excerpted from page 17/28 of the PDF source below
Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach

Why ? "Perfect speed is being there"....exactly like perfect prayer is knowing that what you have asked is already yours. Do you see ?

As author Baird Spalding says in the reference, ”Becoming aware of yourself as a spiritual being, offspring of an infinite spiritual system and one with all the powers and capacities within that system, is the very essence of attainment. To grow from the present state of awareness of himself as a material being and into the consciousness that he is a spiritual being contains the full secret of man's attainment.' Man's nature cannot be reversed for he always remains a spiritual being. He can only reverse his notion of himself. Instead of doing this, he should reverse his mistaken idea that he is a material being and retain the truth that he is a spiritual being created in the image and likeness of God."

….and as also indicated in the 2nd reference, "Perfection does not come from projecting our own ideas but from awakening to the knowledge that it is already the established order of things."

The Creator Himself IS the VERY pattern by which mankind was made. Our Father also created Jesus just as He created us...the exact Spirit and Likeness of Himself. Jesus' message and reason for coming to this earthly dimension was to show us, in as stark, as uncompromising, and as definitive a manner as possible, that we are as He is, which is as our Creator endowed us all to be, and that is as immortal, Spiritual beings who are the Spirit and Image of our Creator. We are NOT physical beings. We are Spiritual Beings like He is! Our true nature lives, as perfect as an unwritten number, everywhere at once across space and time.

But thou, when thou mayest pray, go into thy chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who is seeing in secret, shall reward thee manifestly.
Young's Literal Translation of Matthew 6:6

Why ?

Many people have been lead to believe that they are supposed to follow Jesus who will solve the problems in their lives. Does it make sense to you that if our Father, the loving Creator of ALL beings, allows US to solve the problems we make for ourselves, WHY would He burden Jesus with the task? Jesus, Buddha, Lao-tze, Babaji, and many others came to show us the error of the lies we had adopted as the truth about ourselves. They came to show us that the way back to Our Creator has ALWAYS been awaiting WITHIN US....EVEN though we had forgotten Who we are!

We, too, were created as the Spirit and Image of God, I AM.

....AS the Image of God..the exact likeness of the Creator, Himself.....NOT a subservient follower of whatever religion we choose or adopt !!

Most revealing to me was the discovery that we are not supposed to just follow these Masters. We are invited to follow these Masters' EXAMPLE !!!

We are invited to FOLLOW WHAT THEY FOLLOWED, which is....Our Father.....the I AM which is in us, as well as in Them !

....in order to REAWAKEN and REALIZE our OWN mastery as Spiritual Beings, not to subjugate ourselves to Their mastery. Again, we are ALSO as these Masters are, which is as our Creator endowed us ALL to be, and that is as immortal, spiritual beings who are the Spirit and Image of our Creator. Jesus is, even TODAY, trying to show us what is TRUE of ALL OF US, not what is ONLY TRUE of Him. The goal is to follow what He followed. Human beings are NOT flawed creations who need to be saved. We are PERFECTLY CREATED BEINGS.

We ALL are Sons and Daughters of the Most High, but we have forgotten Who we are! We must learn to seek the power AND answers where our Creator placed them, which is INSIDE of us, just as our Brother, Jesus does.

That is also why I believe He said, "Of myself, I can do nothing. It is the Father in me who does the works." I believe that statement is the very Truth about ALL of us. Of ourselves, we can do nothing. It is the Father within us who does the works, too! No different than it is for our Brother, Jesus. Or for our Sisters, either. Because male AND female made He (our Creator) them. And that is the same Christ within Him who is equally omnipresent within us, as well. In the sanctity of our OWN SELVES, God has placed Himself within us as the very I AM of us.

Even if you don't believe in spiritual Truths, consider that the Principles of Life uncovered by scientists that govern the relationship between mass, gravity, time, and the curvature of space to produce black holes have been in perfect operation just as eternally before their discovery of those principles as is the frequency upon which you enjoy listening to your favorite music; indeed, existent ever since the Universe cooled it into resonance along with the infinite gradations of frequency radiating beside it. These principles HAD to have been in operation just as perfectly BEFORE we discovered how to harness them into technology as they presently operate now. Or we would not be able to continue to utilize them for our technology today, much less build them into technological improvements tomorrow!

....and if we really thought about it, if the accomplishment of miracles was not ALSO based on perfect, unchangeable principles, Jesus would not have been able to truthfully say to us, "Greater things than these shall you also do." Not so just one person can do it (Him), but so that anybody could do it, following relevant principles. As great a teacher as Jesus is, how could he possibly have made such a statement about our God-given capability, except truthfully?

It does absolutely no harm to ask help from our Brother, Jesus, Who would give it just as readily as His and our Father asks ANY of us to do, and for the very same reason.

He teaches us, even NOW, to love one another even as His and our Father loves us.

Our Brother, Jesus, and others, can help us in an infinity of ways.

But He cannot live for us....

That task, privilege, and duty was given solely to us by our Father, Who lovingly gave ALL of us His Own power to do so.

Do you see? The gift is already ours to discover and use !

Seems like a pretty good way for all God’s children to “grow into a mature realization of our infinite potential” FOR OURSELVES, don’t you think?

Fly....

Hope this helps...

Source(s)
http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/a...on_seagull.pdf

Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East (Vols 1-6)
by Baird T. Spalding

Seek and Ye Shall Find