What is prayer, and how do you do it?

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Prayer is nothing but an intention. There is no one to whom to pray. Prayer only helps you to express your own intentions. Your external world will mirror the inner, so it will come to be if the inner world is suitable for it to come into being.

No-one to whom to pray huh? So from where/whom/what comes your life force, the order in the universe, the Intelligence with which you write posts, your ability to pick up a pencil?

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by Reefs

How can you have a relationship with yourself? You can only BE yourself?

Of course we all have a relationship with self. Indeed it must be so, or we'd never have any appreciation of who we in fact are, how to act, where to go, whom to follow.

Surely I might relate to myself as a 'nice guy' one day and a 'grumpy bum' the next, yet even though this relationship changes according to mood/s, it is nonetheless a relationship.

'Being yourself', is an entirely different kettle of fish.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Of course we all have a relationship with self. Indeed it must be so, or we'd never have any appreciation of who we in fact are, how to act, where to go, whom to follow.

Surely I might relate to myself as a 'nice guy' one day and a 'grumpy bum' the next, yet even though this relationship changes according to mood/s, it is nonetheless a relationship.

'Being yourself', is an entirely different kettle of fish.

There's a difference between self and self image. Self image is a concept, self is not. Self image can be known, self not.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by Reefs

There's a difference between self and self image. Self image is a concept, self is not. Self image can be known, self not.

And why can't self be known?

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

And why can't self be known?

Because it's not an object and prior to knowledge.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Because it's not an object and prior to knowledge.

Yes I've heard these words previously, yet I don't understand what you mean by 'it's not an object', nor am I sure I get 'prior to knowledge'. Also, for both these, I'm wondering about relevance.

So would you care to explain further? I mean, in the first instance can only objects be known? Also what would be your definition of 'known' in this case?

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

No Big people. ONLY HAPPY LITTLE people.

and God said: "No my precious child, I make no mistakes. I sent you to earth,
to teach others how to stay the Precious child I created you each as.
You will teach this by your example, & your words.
I LOVE you soo much and forever. Always Remember this"

For 55 years now, I continue my Relationship with GOD. PRAISE God!

To me, God's Will is for us to be exactly ourselves and not to be an ego, a false self.

Just like the little kids.

I can see the times I have the greatest joy is when I'm just me, especially around people that are just themselves too.

The journey home is the journey of courage to just be one's self...to no longer let culture and religion dictate ideals. The only real ideal is simple to be one's self...a whole mind, body and soul. With that ALL perversion vanish.

What joyful person is a pervert??

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Bluth

Well I've never had a conversation with Him.

If God knows all then words aren't necessary....just live authentically and He already knows.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Reefs

You can only have a relationship with something that is not you. Only persons can have relationships.

Therefore it's sad if you only can have a relationship with God.

I think prayer in the sense of having someone to talk to becomes a cleansing of the frustrations in the unconscious mind. The venting is the healing, not that there's a God on the other end doing anything.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Yes I've heard these words previously, yet I don't understand what you mean by 'it's not an object', nor am I sure I get 'prior to knowledge'. Also, for both these, I'm wondering about relevance.

So would you care to explain further? I mean, in the first instance can only objects be known? Also what would be your definition of 'known' in this case?

It's prior to concepts. Prior to mind. So there is no way that you could Ever explain it or even point your finger at it. The only thing you can do - and what I do and what Arcanum does - is to say what it not is. It's nothing you can pass on or teach.

I asked you a question several times, the question if what Gandhi and Buddha and other masters had in common, if the things they saw was the same (meaning the content) or the way they saw things was the same (meaning a process). You couldn't come up with an answer so far because you don't know what prior to mind means.

To understand what prior to mind means, your personal, conceptual point of view has to collapse and an impersonal, non-conceptual point of view will remain. What is left is pure seeing instead of the former seeing this or seeing that in relation to this or that.

So the answer to my question would be the way they saw things was the same, not what they saw. If what they saw would have been the same, they would have taught exactly the same. But they didn't. Only the essence of their teaching is the same, the impersonal point of view. Content is irrelevant.

All you did so far was exploring the conceptual realm. And now you want to know what prior to mind and prior to concepts looks like. That's not gonna happen. That would be mind trying to transcend mind.

So all your accumulated knowledge is meaningless. Your house of cards has to - and will - sooner or later collapse.

That's what I've meant when I said that your downfall is inevitable. There will be a point when you reach the end of the conceptual rope, when your own contradictions become unbearable even to yourself, when you see clearly that that you were just smoking one concept ciggy after another while having fun in the spiritual circus and going round and round in your mental loop heading nowhere, always on the run after the pot of gold at the end of the spiritual rainbow.

But what I tell you here will be meaningless to you and irrelevant as long as you have your conceptual personal point of view, of which you cannot get rid off by yourself, of course.

Until then you might interpret everything I say as personal attack.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

How sad you've never Experienced... Prayer as another facet of enjoying a Relationship with God

I've experienced something like what you describe, but it's not with an entity separate from myself.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

No-one to whom to pray huh? So from where/whom/what comes your life force, the order in the universe, the Intelligence with which you write posts, your ability to pick up a pencil?

Certainly not from a separate being, and not also from the person ChristsLight. More properly from Being itself, as all things arise.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Reefs

It's prior to concepts. Prior to mind.
I asked you a question several times, the question if what Gandhi and Buddha and other masters had in common
So all your accumulated knowledge is meaningless. Your house of cards has to - and will - sooner or later collapse.
Until then you might interpret everything I say as personal attack.

In case you had failed to Notice, Sir -

THIS thread's OP was NOT about your mindless mumbo-schmumbo.
THIS thread's OP was NOT about what the hell Buddha, or Ghandi had in common.
THIS thread's OP was NOT about your continued meaningless personal attacks.
And you have contributed nothing but another one of your damn DERAILS.


THIS O.P. asked a simple question. To whit: WHAT is prayer, & HOW do you do it.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

I've experienced something like what you describe, but it's not with an entity separate from myself.

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Certainly not from a separate being, and not also from the person ChristsLight. More properly from Being itself, as all things arise.

This reflects my own experience, as well. Otherwise, it's difficult to describe.

It also never, in my case, takes the form of supplication. "To pray" means "to ask", which is why I can't even really call it prayer, at least by common definition. It's more like ... contemplation.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Beingist

This reflects my own experience, as well. Otherwise, it's difficult to describe.

It also never, in my case, takes the form of supplication. "To pray" means "to ask", which is why I can't even really call it prayer, at least by common definition. It's more like ... contemplation.

I like the word "communion." It's an enjoying of Being and realizing the perfection of it.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

I like the word "communion." It's an enjoying of Being and realizing the perfection of it.

Yes, I can see how "communion" could be used. Very appropriate. My only problem with it is the religious connotations it brings up, but that's just me. Also, when I espoused Catholicism, I still "contemplated" after receiving "communion". So, the ideas are still separated, in my own mind.

But, whatever works for you, CL. Words and labels are really unimportant, here, as I'm sure you'd agree.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

I think

prayer in the sense of having someone to talk to
becomes a cleansing of the frustrations in the unconscious mind.
The venting is the healing, not that there's a God on the other end doing anything.

IF you are not even engaging... this practice,
then what are you doing in this thread in the 1st. place. How bizarre!

and

WHERE in my "chats" with God, was mostly 'frustration,
venting, or needed healing' ?? - Right, there is none.

And do Explain how: people, who do NOT know another person, nor their Name,
nor any details, yet the 2nd. very-DISTANT person is Prayed-for, (thankfully OFF any damn drugs), and yet is from a terminal-condition is HEALED, & it doesn't matter if the Recipient of the praying was an atheist, or another Christian. - because GOD is NO respector of people. He LOVES His creations equally...

Again, the O.P. never asked for you to REFUTE the praying...
The O.P.'s query was: what is prayer, & HOW... DO YOU DO IT

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

IF you are not even engaging... this practice,
then what are you doing in this thread in the 1st. place. How bizarre!

and

WHERE in my "chats" with God, was mostly 'frustration,
venting, or needed healing' ?? - Right, there is none.

And do Explain how: people, who do NOT know another person, nor their Name,
nor any details, yet the 2nd. very-DISTANT person is Prayed-for, (thankfully OFF any damn drugs), and yet is from a terminal-condition is HEALED, & it doesn't matter if the Recipient of the praying was an atheist, or another Christian. - because GOD is NO respector of people. He LOVES His creations equally...

Again, the O.P. never asked for you to REFUTE the praying...
The O.P.'s query was: what is prayer, & HOW... DO YOU DO IT

The title of the thread is "What is prayer, and how do you do it?"

All of my comments fit that theme including how I "do" it, just not the convention of practicing a belief, and for what?

I defined what prayer is for me and why. For you it's something else.

For me it's not a "practice". That's all. Everything I need for a joyful life is already in me and around me.

And the OP hasn't complained to me but engaged with me and others.

I'm sorry you're offended at me speaking honestly, but that's what good is it to be politically correct? Are we here to prop each other up or to offer something new?

I prefer to simply be myself and call it like I see it.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Certainly not from a separate being,

But really CL, from where do you get this 'separate' concept? What/who is separate and why?

Surely we've evolved past such childish perception here, and now recognise that fundamentally all is ONE. You only appear separate from sk8joyful and myself due to your overwhelming subjectivity. However in reality you and this supposed non-entity to whom you pray are one, so if that non-entity is as you believe, then you also must be a non-entity, a non-reality. Surely you can make such an obvious, basic connection, right?

On the other hand when sk8joyful prays to an actual entity Creator (to him 'God'), his prayer links them, for the prayer is a recognition of and subjection to his CREATOR. As such, he becomes one with a REALITY, which/whom in turn supplies his reality. Surely you can see the relevance here?

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

and not also from the person ChristsLight. More properly from Being itself, as all things arise.

Yet this 'being itself' is a non-entity, huh? Why can you not see how your perceptions are deluding you towards such empty conclusions about reality and yourself?

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

But really CL, from where do you get this 'separate' concept? What/who is separate and why?

Surely we've evolved past such childish perception here, and now recognise that fundamentally all is ONE. You only appear separate from sk8joyful and myself due to your overwhelming subjectivity. However in reality you and this supposed non-entity to whom you pray are one, so if that non-entity is as you believe, then you also must be a non-entity, a non-reality. Surely you can make such an obvious, basic connection, right?

On the other hand when sk8joyful prays to an actual entity Creator (to him 'God'), his prayer links them, for the prayer is a recognition of and subjection to his CREATOR. As such, he becomes one with a REALITY, which/whom in turn supplies his reality. Surely you can see the relevance here?

Yet this 'being itself' is a non-entity, huh? Why can you not see how your perceptions are deluding you towards such empty conclusions about reality and yourself?

No delusion here. Your previous post implied threw as a separate entity to whom to pray, d I simply cleared that up. There indeed is no separation.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

And do Explain how: people, who do NOT know another person, nor their Name,
nor any details, yet the 2nd. very-DISTANT person is Prayed-for, (thankfully OFF any damn drugs), and yet is from a terminal-condition is HEALED, & it doesn't matter if the Recipient of the praying was an atheist, or another Christian. - because GOD is NO respector of people. He LOVES His creations equally...

That there is healing that takes place does not imply that there is some "God" being that does the healing.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by RonSouther

The title of the thread is "What is prayer, and how do you do it?"
For me it's not a "practice". That's all. Everything I need
for a joyful life is already in me and around me.

I'm sorry you're offended at me speaking honestly, but
that's what good is it to be politically correct?
Are we here to prop each other up or to offer something new?
I prefer to simply be myself and call it like I see it.

Offense?? - forget! that. Certainly wasn't in my mind.
Neither go I care about the idiocy of 'political correctness'; favored by many here.

But *something NEW* yes!!

(instead of continuing dropping like flies from medical-malpractice(s), &
propping peeps up in that despicable state of affairs, & other societal ills)
let's instead
choose NEWness of LIFE & LOVE... it

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

IF you are not even engaging... this practice,
then what are you doing in this thread in the 1st. place. How bizarre!

Folks are offering their opinions and further understandings of what prayer really is to them. Since prayer seems like it can only be one thing to you, it seems like everyone is off-topic and perhaps some are even attacking you.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Offense?? - forget! that. Certainly wasn't in my mind.
Neither go I care about the idiocy of 'political correctness'; favored by many here.

But *something NEW* yes!!

(instead of continuing dropping like flies from medical-malpractice(s), &
propping peeps up in that despicable state of affairs, & other societal ills)
let's instead
choose NEWness of LIFE & LOVE... it

But love and life can't be "decided"...logic doesn't bring them into the moment. It's getting rid of all the false teachings that we are acting out that have to go. Practicing spirituality is a false teaching.

There's nothing repetitive in life except in our minds so "practicing" is a mental thing not spiritual. We practice to make it a habit to make it feel real...no...that's a poison to spirituality....it keeps our mind in play and in control, and we become closeminded in our mental habit.

That's why I didn't describe my practice of prayer....I don't practice anything spiritual but I do feel a prayer in me that arises of thanks.

[Apopohis Reject]

Time to get real, CL ....

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

No delusion here.

Of course you can't see it. That's the very nature of delusion.

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Your previous post implied threw as a separate entity to whom to pray, d I simply cleared that up. There indeed is no separation.

My previous post implied no such thing. It was in your subjective mentality where such implication presented and took shape.

So whilst your words "there indeed is no separation" might sound valid, you still defer to a non-existence, a non-entity. How do you possibly relate to a non-entity? And how are you one with a nothingness? Are you also nothing?

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Time to get real, CL ....Of course you can't see it. That's the very nature of delusion.

My previous post implied no such thing. It was in your subjective mentality where such implication presented and took shape.

So whilst your words "there indeed is no separation" might sound valid, you still defer to a non-existence, a non-entity. How do you possibly relate to a non-entity? And how are you one with a nothingness? Are you also nothing?

Reject, I think you missed something in CL's posts. He has neither implied separation, nor is one who's into "nothingness". There really is no delusion, there.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

Time to get real, CL ....Of course you can't see it. That's the very nature of delusion.

My previous post implied no such thing. It was in your subjective mentality where such implication presented and took shape.

You said:

No-one to whom to pray huh? So from where/whom/what comes your life force, the order in the universe, the Intelligence with which you write posts, your ability to pick up a pencil?

A where, a who, and a what are all conceptual entities from which things appear to come. My point is that there is nowhere, no one, and nothing from which they arise, except for Being itself. I identify with that Being.

Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject

So whilst your words "there indeed is no separation" might sound valid, you still defer to a non-existence, a non-entity. How do you possibly relate to a non-entity? And how are you one with a nothingness? Are you also nothing?

There is no one to be one with anything. There is just One. Your words elude to separation.

[Apopohis Reject]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Reject, I think you missed something in CL's posts. He has neither implied separation, nor is one who's into "nothingness". There really is no delusion, there.

In all fairness, CL refers to 'Being', with which you understandably resonate, such; "Certainly not from a separate being, and not also from the person ChristsLight. More properly from Being itself, as all things arise."

So he defines three possibilities;

1. A 'separate' entity, that apparently doesn't exist
2. Himself, yet he states this is not who/what he prays to, and
3. This ill-defined 'Being itself', which becomes his reference point.

Yet this 'Being' has no contextual relevance that I can yet recognise. So if this 'Being' is a valid reference point for CL; he either needs to define what/whom he's referencing, or best accept an obvious delusion on his part.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

There is no one to be one with anything. There is just One. Your words elude to separation.

What he said.

(btw, I think you meant "allude". Butterflies "elude" the net. )

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

That there is healing that takes place
does not imply
that there is some "God" being that does the healing.

TRUE, as far as -
1. self-Healing... from parental, doctor, & preacher, abuses...
2. self-Healing... from heart dis-ease.
3. self-Healing... from drug stupidity.
4. self-Healing... from cancers, for GOD created us also with this ability.
5. self-Healing... from broken bones, etc.
6. self-Healing... from so many accidental & intentional conditions.
Yet,
when a person's been DEAD for days, it takes GOD to restore said person to this LIFE - PRAISE God!
&
when a person's vital-organs were stolen, it takes GOD to restore said person to Completion (sans any need for immuno-suppressants).

PRAISE God!