What Is, Is

[Beingist]

Okay. Some of us, including me, have been hijacking enough of others' threads to compel me to start my own, for the purposes of it being hijacked.



In another thread, a few have been prodding me to admit that I have "beliefs". It has been, for some time, my endeavor to rid myself of my own "beliefs", which is to say, I see all belief systems as errant, in that they only serve the ego, in the sense that the ego uses it to say "'this' or 'that' is unquestionably 'true', and so I 'believe' it, and since the belief systems of others aren't the same as mine, they are unquestionably false."

To be clear, this is not to say that I no longer harbor any 'beliefs' whatsoever, since the ego can be quite subtle, but as I understand it, ridding oneself of beliefs is a process, and suffice it to say that I thankfully have enough humility to admit that I'm "in the process" of ridding myself of beliefs.

However, if in my self-inquiry, I ask myself "what do I believe, if anything," I currently must answer myself that I do believe, (I suppose one could say), that What Is, is, and that anything beyond that, that if I harbor any "belief" about What Is, is errant, as my ego makes the attempt to form a belief.

And so I put it to anyone and everyone to either challenge this "belief" (or idea, or concept, or whatever you want to call it), or accept it:

WHAT IS, IS.

[nothuman]

I'm not gonna argue with ya pal.....all I would do is to drop one of those 'is's'.... that'd do me.....I'm too much of a spiritual coward to go out on the 'is' limb

[Angela]

What about your view that all belief systems are errant, in that they only serve the ego? Is that true?

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Angela

What about your view that all belief systems are errant, in that they only serve the ego? Is that true?

Not exactly sure what you mean by "is that true?"

To be perfectly honest, that view can change, as my ... understanding has changed in the past. I used to see things much, much differently (ex-converted Roman Catholic, here). So, if you're asking if I think it's absolutely and unquestionably true that all belief systems are errant, I'd have to say no, because, well, that would be a belief.

I suppose it would be more precise to say that through practical application and self-observation, as well as through observation of others and their belief systems, it is errant for me to adopt a belief system. I'm infinitely happier when I just accept What Is.

[Angela]

Ok. By that standard -- if a thought must be absolutely and unquestionably true -- then I don't have any beliefs left to get rid of, not even "what is, is."

I had a fun time a few years ago here on these forums seeking out a belief that is the absolute truth. Couldn't find any!

But I've found lots of operating beliefs -- that is, beliefs that I experience as supporting me and working really well, even though they're not absolutely or unquestionably true. I don't feel any need or desire to rid myself of those.

[nothuman]

Be...... we are all like kids in the way we pull things apart to understand em... stick the doll's head on the leg joint etc. I have witnessed the falling away of beliefs as a kinda byproduct of God forbid... 'self realization'.
Has this been a more conscious process for you?

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Angela

Ok. By that standard -- if a thought must be absolutely and unquestionably true -- then I don't have any beliefs left to get rid of, not even "what is, is."

I had a fun time a few years ago here on these forums seeking out a belief that is the absolute truth. Couldn't find any!

But I've found lots of operating beliefs -- that is, beliefs that I experience as supporting me and working really well, even though they're not absolutely or unquestionably true. I don't feel any need or desire to rid myself of those.

Cool. I intend to get to the point (if I'm not there, yet) where even "what is, is" is an operative thing.

But, then, it sounds as though you've simply accepted What Is. Is that the case?

Otherwise, I find the term, "operative" now in play--"operative" beliefs vs. "absolute" beliefs, and since "what is, is" is operative and not absolute for me, then am I not there, also?

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by nothuman

I'm not gonna argue with ya pal.....all I would do is to drop one of those 'is's'.... that'd do me.....I'm too much of a spiritual coward to go out on the 'is' limb

LOL

Can't say I blame you. I'm starting to get a headache from all this cogitation, myself.

[ChristsLight]

What is, most definitely is not.

Kidding. How could what is, not be? Your "belief" seems to be the end of all beliefs.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

What is, most definitely is not.

Kidding. How could what is, not be? Your "belief" seems to be the end of all beliefs.

Yes, and this is precisely the way look at it. Seems to be the case in my experience, anyway.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Beingist

WHAT IS, IS.

What are you talking about? What is isn't. That's perfectly obvious.

I bet there's an Alice in Wonderland quote about this..

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

What are you talking about? What is isn't. That's perfectly obvious.

I bet there's an Alice in Wonderland quote about this..

I'll give you a rep point, if you can find it, Cris!

[James81]

I'm not so much interested in deconstructing your belief (you know as well as I do that YOU are the only one that can prove that wrong to yourself and that everybody else's attempts at making it wrong will fall flat unless you give someone permission to make you wrong about it).

I'm more interested in why you are trying to rid yourself of all (or most) beliefs in the first place.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by James81

I'm not so much interested in deconstructing your belief (you know as well as I do that YOU are the only one that can prove that wrong to yourself and that everybody else's attempts at making it wrong will fall flat unless you give someone permission to make you wrong about it).

Yeah, that's an interesting observation. Never thought of that, but good to know.

I'm more interested in why you are trying to rid yourself of all (or most) beliefs in the first place.

I don't suppose I'm trying to rid myself of beliefs, per se, but rather belief systems. Otherwise, as is most often the case around here, we'd probably need to agree on the definition of the term, "belief".

My definition of "belief" closely resembles a religious definition, which is probably why you're asking the question.

Otherwise, I guess the short answer is that I don't want to believe anything. I'd rather know everything. I can know that I am. I can know What Is. And that's really all I can know.

That said, what's the benefit of believing anything?

[Maguru]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Okay. Some of us, including me, have been hijacking enough of others' threads to compel me to start my own, for the purposes of it being hijacked.



In another thread, a few have been prodding me to admit that I have "beliefs". It has been, for some time, my endeavor to rid myself of my own "beliefs", which is to say, I see all belief systems as errant, in that they only serve the ego, in the sense that the ego uses it to say "'this' or 'that' is unquestionably 'true', and so I 'believe' it, and since the belief systems of others aren't the same as mine, they are unquestionably false."

To be clear, this is not to say that I no longer harbor any 'beliefs' whatsoever, since the ego can be quite subtle, but as I understand it, ridding oneself of beliefs is a process, and suffice it to say that I thankfully have enough humility to admit that I'm "in the process" of ridding myself of beliefs.

However, if in my self-inquiry, I ask myself "what do I believe, if anything," I currently must answer myself that I do believe, (I suppose one could say), that What Is, is, and that anything beyond that, that if I harbor any "belief" about What Is, is errant, as my ego makes the attempt to form a belief.

And so I put it to anyone and everyone to either challenge this "belief" (or idea, or concept, or whatever you want to call it), or accept it:

WHAT IS, IS.

Are you meaning 'what is' is everything in existence and acceptance is without judgement? Do you accept yourself as 'what is'?

[Beingist]

Okay. Floods of questions, all at once.

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Are you ganging up on him too?!!

Gang away, Arc.

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

If he perceives it, then it is.

More like, if it is, then it is.

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Who is doing all of this conceiving?

Everyone can conceive of something, can't they?

Originally Posted by Arcanum

So now 'what is', is everything known, unknown and unknowable? It's also subjective, objective, Truth and illusion?

Sure. 'What is' can even be 'what isn't', I suppose. And both. And neither. LOL

(Boy, that's surely gonna raise some eyebrows).

Originally Posted by Maguru

Are you meaning 'what is' is everything in existence and acceptance is without judgement? Do you accept yourself as 'what is'?

Someone gets it, YAY!! Unqualified 'Yeses' to both.

Good note upon which to hit the hay. I'll catch up, later. Thanks, all!

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Someone gets it, YAY!! Unqualified 'Yeses' to both.

Well, it's a nice goal to have.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Everyone can conceive of something, can't they?

So you are conceiving of an "everyone" (a multitude of "persons") and of a "something" for "everyone" to conceive of?

Originally Posted by Beingist

Sure. 'What is' can even be 'what isn't', I suppose. And both. And neither. LOL

What is can be what is not? Black can be white? Or maybe yellow?

By the way, the statement itself "what is, is" can be called a tautology. It can sound cool, but as arcanum keeps saying, it doesn't really say anything.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

So you are conceiving of an "everyone" (a multitude of "persons") and of a "something" for "everyone" to conceive of?

If they want. If they don't want to conceive of anything, that's fine, too.

What is can be what is not? Black can be white? Or maybe yellow?

I don't know. Can it, to you?

By the way, the statement itself "what is, is" can be called a tautology. It can sound cool, but as arcanum keeps saying, it doesn't really say anything.

Yes, I know, and I still agree with that.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Beingist

If they want. If they don't want to conceive of anything, that's fine, too.

When you conceive of "persons", is that not forcing "what is" into a filter of your own creation? Are you then seeing "what is" anymore, or your idea of what is, as "persons" conceiving of "things"?

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Okay. Some of us, including me, have been hijacking enough of others' threads to compel me to start my own, for the purposes of it being hijacked.



In another thread, a few have been prodding me to admit that I have "beliefs". It has been, for some time, my endeavor to rid myself of my own "beliefs", which is to say, I see all belief systems as errant, in that they only serve the ego, in the sense that the ego uses it to say "'this' or 'that' is unquestionably 'true', and so I 'believe' it, and since the belief systems of others aren't the same as mine, they are unquestionably false."

To be clear, this is not to say that I no longer harbor any 'beliefs' whatsoever, since the ego can be quite subtle, but as I understand it, ridding oneself of beliefs is a process, and suffice it to say that I thankfully have enough humility to admit that I'm "in the process" of ridding myself of beliefs.

However, if in my self-inquiry, I ask myself "what do I believe, if anything," I currently must answer myself that I do believe, (I suppose one could say), that What Is, is, and that anything beyond that, that if I harbor any "belief" about What Is, is errant, as my ego makes the attempt to form a belief.

And so I put it to anyone and everyone to either challenge this "belief" (or idea, or concept, or whatever you want to call it), or accept it:

WHAT IS, IS.

what is ,is ?

to me that is a belief
and by definition a belief is -
a confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

what is ,is ?

to me that is a belief
and by definition a belief is -
a confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof

Wow. Someone (other than me) finally defined a term!



Thanks, Lifey, and I'll gladly accept your definition.

In response to your assertion that 'What Is, Is," is still a belief, you're absolutely correct...

... I believe.

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Wow. Someone (other than me) finally defined a term!



Thanks, Lifey, and I'll gladly accept your definition.

In response to your assertion that 'What Is, Is," is still a belief, you're absolutely correct...

... I believe.

[lifetimelearner]

exactly ,so the wine has kicked in and I am off to that place we named B E D
goodnight

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

exactly ,so the wine has kicked in and I am off to that place we named B E D
goodnight

Ahh, the thot plickens.

[raykilleen]

I have direct experience getting hammered with wine.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

what is ,is ?

to me that is a belief
and by definition a belief is -
a confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof

What if I were to say a hammer is a hammer? Is that a belief too?

[lifetimelearner]

is that a rhetorical question ?

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

is that a rhetorical question ?

Laughing Out Loud I knew you were going to respond with that.

Fair warning, Lifey, anyone posting in this thread is likely to be briskly challenged to question anything they hold to be true (and not just by me ).

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Laughing Out Loud I knew you were going to respond with that.

Fair warning, Lifey, anyone posting in this thread is likely to be briskly challenged to question anything they hold to be true (and not just by me ).

ahhh ... to be known so well ...tis scary