If we are already whole, perfect, and complete...

[quiethumir]

If we are already whole, complete, and perfect as we are, then what is the purpose of self improvement programs and making changes in our lives?

I'm interested in going vegan to improve my energy levels, overall health, and mental clarity, but then if i'm already perfect as I am, why would I need to do that?

Please share your thoughts about this. Thanks

[Luciddd]

As I know is that you "realize it", then perfection becomes clear. You cant experience it until you realize it. A good anagoly would be imagine a guy in a prison, spends years trying to escape, but then suddenly the man realize he was never imprisoned and the prison gates were never locked.

A way to see it, as far as I know would be mind and reality. The minds makes you believe you are "quiethumir" who is only 1 out of 6 billion people, locked up in a life that needs to improve health, energy levels and mental clarity. The mind creates and project for you these expreriences that seems to be "beyond you". They were never real, but until you see they feel and in some way are real. Then you wake up from the illusion, you realize you were never sick, you had all the mental clarity you wanted, you dont lack any energy level, you are complete.

[quiethumir]

I understand what you're saying, but once you realize it, would you quit all attempts for self improvement? What if I wanted to go vegan?

[Luciddd]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

I understand what you're saying, but once you realize it, would you quit all attempts for self improvement? What if I wanted to go vegan?

I dont know what is the objective experience after reaching realization and depending on the level of realization. One can only speculate. Would vegan even mean something to you?

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

If we are already whole, complete, and perfect as we are, then what is the purpose of self improvement programs and making changes in our lives?

I'm interested in going vegan to improve my energy levels, overall health, and mental clarity, but then if i'm already perfect as I am, why would I need to do that?

Please share your thoughts about this. Thanks

Could it be possible that growth is an aspect of perfection?

[taylor]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

If we are already whole, complete, and perfect as we are, then what is the purpose of self improvement programs and making changes in our lives?

I'm interested in going vegan to improve my energy levels, overall health, and mental clarity, but then if i'm already perfect as I am, why would I need to do that?

Please share your thoughts about this. Thanks

Don't confuse levels. "Everything is perfect" is just a program for you at this point. That's a realization you begin to have more and more as you spiritually progress. If you apply it prematurely to a practical situation like your health, it's just going to reduce your practical results.

Ultimately there is no point to self improvement programs as you can't improve your true Self which has no body and no qualities that can be changed. However, there's also no point to eating or breathing but you will hopefully continue doing those things as well even after you realize all is well. What I'm trying to get across is that "everything is perfect" refers to the underlying consciousness, while what to eat refers to the surface level of form, materiality, and the world.

[Luciddd]

Originally Posted by taylor

Don't confuse levels. "Everything is perfect" is just a program for you at this point. That's a realization you begin to have more and more as you spiritually progress. If you apply it prematurely to a practical situation like your health, it's just going to reduce your practical results.

Ultimately there is no point to self improvement programs as you can't improve your true Self which has no body and no qualities that can be changed. However, there's also no point to eating or breathing but you will hopefully continue doing those things as well even after you realize all is well. What I'm trying to get across is that "everything is perfect" refers to the underlying consciousness, while what to eat refers to the surface level of form, materiality, and the world.

Indeed, to fully realize it, you may have to expell your soul from the physical vessel or transform your physical level to fully handle it.

I have heard that at some level of realization, you can go in and out of the physical vessel at command to fully go to the Self.

However Swami Ramalinga, suggest that the supreme level of realization is the transformation of the physical body.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

If we are already whole, complete, and perfect as we are, then what is the purpose of self improvement programs and making changes in our lives?

Exactly!

That said, I'm here to simply spread the word.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

If we are already whole, complete, and perfect as we are, then what is the purpose of self improvement programs and making changes in our lives?

I'm interested in going vegan to improve my energy levels, overall health, and mental clarity, but then if i'm already perfect as I am, why would I need to do that?

Please share your thoughts about this. Thanks

You didn't actually create the interest in going vegan. It occurred spontaneously and the interest will either remain or fade away. In either case, you are the one who sees the interest and accompanying thoughts appearing. It is neither a problem for the person to work on itself or not work on itself. It is a matter of noticing mistaken identity and not one of "do this or don't do that". The changes and the interests that were spawned out of fear and illusory notions of what you should or shouldn't be largely fall away but that doesn't mean the person stops doing things or suddenly stops navigating through the world.

[FlabRoshi]

Being - perfect
Human - imperfect

We are human beings.

[ChristsLight]

Yes, what Beingist and Chris said.

You have not generated the interest. You can do nothing to yourself.

Things will either arise, either through inspiration/intuition or through the program, the memories. If it is from inspiration, then it will simply occur. You need to do nothing. It is about embracing perfection, and allowing things to arise naturally, whether that means that the expression of that perfection, being your mind and body, changes or not.

If they arise from the program, from memories, then it's the person trying to change itself. This is when perfection is not embraced.

They may look similar, but the results are very different.

[quiethumir]

Originally Posted by FlabRoshi

Being - perfect
Human - imperfect

We are human beings.

That's awesome. Never looked at it that way. Thanks

[FlabRoshi]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

That's awesome. Never looked at it that way. Thanks

Welcome. That framework has helped me a lot.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by quiethumir

If we are already whole, complete, and perfect as we are, then what is the purpose of self improvement programs and making changes in our lives?

I'm interested in going vegan to improve my energy levels, overall health, and mental clarity, but then if i'm already perfect as I am, why would I need to do that?

Please share your thoughts about this. Thanks

We are born with a whole mind. We lose that wholeness as we are indoctrinated into religious, cultural and nation belief systems....habitual thinking that runs like software from the unconscious mind.

Self improvement programs mostly are new beliefs systems, new programming, in an attempt to override other programs that aren't working. So we get trained on the next great idea to repeat for 21 days until it's automated in us...yeah, that will fix our lives.

We were born whole and can be whole again, but first we have to "see" the process of the mind and how the making of beliefs a habit in our thoughts is what is fragmenting us.

For example, you see something in life that doesn't make sense...you start trying to figure it out. Once you've reconciled it, your mind rests and you feel a certain amount of relief. You got back the energy that your mind was using to solve this contradiction.

Now imagine that the contradiction is in your habitual thought. So anytime that habitual thought is triggered, like your "conscience" (your culturally taught idea of right and wrong, not your consciousness or inner compass), the contradictions in that conscience reappear in the conscious mind and once again the mind starts working on trying to solve it. And the unconscious mind also tries to figure it out. Our dreams are the unconscious mind trying to reconcile repressed desires and situations.

Belief systems ensure a really active mind and that ensures a live of addiction in order to create artificial moments of relief from the mind.

The path to self is the path to a whole mind. The path out of ego is the path to the whole mind. The method to enable the path is the testing of those beliefs that are running your life. When you can see, with enough perspective from enough angles, that Santa a belief system and not true, then that habitual thought process involving Santa is no longer running. The memories stay but the control over your life is gone. That is the method for all beliefs....to test them, watch for the results and be open to the possibility that your beliefs were wrong, otherwise your mind will blame everything else.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by FlabRoshi

Being - perfect
Human - imperfect

We are human beings.

That's awesome! And if I may, the human part is imperfect because no one is born knowing it all or being able to see the future. In that ignorance we make mistakes trying to work with the nature around us.

Maybe we think that "mistakes" mean we are imperfect OR instead we can see that mistakes are the main ingredient in the learning process?

Maybe "imperfection" is simply a word of the ego, but not something that existence is concerned about. This, I think, ties into "ChristLights" teaching that we are all perfect, no change is required.

[Sekret Weapon]

We are whole and complete In POTENTIAL. We work to fulfill and reach that potentiality.

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by FlabRoshi

Being - perfect
Human - imperfect

We are human beings.

So, imperfect perfections. Got it.

... sorta like a bank that's not a bank.