What is the purpose of enlightenment?

[Lior]

Hi everyone,

I've been thinking a lot lately about how we strive to become enlightened (by letting go of the ego, becoming more aware and conscious etc etc), but then it struck me: Where is this all leading?

Theoretically, you become enlightened. You feel peace and joy and love. The world becomes a wonderful place to live if everyone was enlightened and there is a New Earth. But what's the point of all this? Where is it leading? Sure, it's great to feel all those wonderful things and to have a heaven-like place to live - but what is the point of life once everyone is enlightened and everything is "perfect"? What happens next?

Excited to hear your thoughts on this

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Lior

Hi everyone,

I've been thinking a lot lately about how we strive to become enlightened (by letting go of the ego, becoming more aware and conscious etc etc), but then it struck me: Where is this all leading?

Theoretically, you become enlightened. You feel peace and joy and love. The world becomes a wonderful place to live if everyone was enlightened and there is a New Earth. But what's the point of all this? Where is it leading? Sure, it's great to feel all those wonderful things and to have a heaven-like place to live - but what is the point of life once everyone is enlightened and everything is "perfect"? What happens next?

Excited to hear your thoughts on this

It's not leading anywhere because life has no purpose...it simply is beautiful! Harmony is amazing to experience and to watch. It's a beautiful mystery.

Life just "is". Time to start living and stop making life into something that it's not like nations, religions, metroplexes, competition, etc...

[ChristsLight]

Why do you need a purpose in life?

It is because you need a purpose that you are still seeking. Once you drop the need for a point of living, you will drop the search and just live.

[Lior]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Why do you need a purpose in life?

Originally Posted by RonSouther

It's not leading anywhere because life has no purpose...

Maybe there isn't a purpose. But we can never be sure. There are so many things on a spiritual level that we don't understand ; maybe purpose is one of them.

Surely there is a reason why we're not like the rock or the flower or the worm; surely there is a reason why we have a higher level of consciousness that allows us to be more than creatures who just "are being". We are the products of evolution but the theory of spiritual things (souls, karma, the world of spirit guides etc etc) all suggests that there is more to being here than just being..

And if there *is* a purpose, as long as you don't know it, you might be living a life that's in a way a "waste" of your time here.

[RonSouther]

Originally Posted by Lior

Maybe there isn't a purpose. But we can never be sure. There are so many things on a spiritual level that we don't understand ; maybe purpose is one of them.

Surely there is a reason why we're not like the rock or the flower or the worm; surely there is a reason why we have a higher level of consciousness that allows us to be more than creatures who just "are being". We are the products of evolution but the theory of spiritual things (souls, karma, the world of spirit guides etc etc) all suggests that there is more to being here than just being..

And if there *is* a purpose, as long as you don't know it, you might be living a life that's in a way a "waste" of your time here.

The "purpose" is beyond our ability to know and we don't need to know because life is a beautfil experience and beautiful to witness. This question is about a mystery not a problem. Drop your manmade pursuit of meaning for your life and allow your natural desires and talents to speak for existence through you...and watch the beauty of your own life unfold. Thats when you can love self, when you see your beautiful qualities instead of your ugly ego that you're trying to control.

Life is wasted when we decide to create meaning. Thats when you get all these nations and politics and religions. Everyone is trying to play "god"....human will. Only the ego thinks it can create better than Creation itself.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Lior

Maybe there isn't a purpose. But we can never be sure. There are so many things on a spiritual level that we don't understand ; maybe purpose is one of them.

Surely there is a reason why we're not like the rock or the flower or the worm; surely there is a reason why we have a higher level of consciousness that allows us to be more than creatures who just "are being". We are the products of evolution but the theory of spiritual things (souls, karma, the world of spirit guides etc etc) all suggests that there is more to being here than just being..

And if there *is* a purpose, as long as you don't know it, you might be living a life that's in a way a "waste" of your time here.

You didn't answer my question. Why do you need a purpose?

Once you stop trying to be the controller of your life, and simply witnessing what is, then everything will be seen to be perfect. Purpose will not matter. There is no one to control it.

[Arcanum]

If we could say there is a purpose for mankind it would be indicated by the direction in which he seems to be going. Man has developed the ability to contemplate his own existence, and this is a necessary requirement for the transcendence of his own consciousness, which is enlightenment.

Every time someone awakens to the truth of their own being, the world becomes a better place, and the doorway is opened for others to follow. I don't know what happens when all of humanity is awakened, but I suspect that's the end of this particular game. However, I wouldn't mark the event on your calendar just yet. There is also the distinct possibility that instead of awakening, humanity will hesitate in the final hour and simply cease to exist. Nobody will be around to mourn the passing.

[Sekret Weapon]

There are 2 types of enlightenment:

Bliss Enlightenment

Cognitive Enlightenment


Bliss Enlightenment offers a permanent taste of the God-Widsom inherent in our Emotional Essence Body.

Cognitive Enlightenment offers a permanent taste of the God-Wisdom inherent in our Intellectual Essence Body.


If you are fortunate to come to know these states then you will forever have a point of reference to help you interprit Spirituality and Consciousness.



The first thing people do when I talk about enlightenment or samadhi is try and clown me.
Maybe one of you "smart people" will finally start asking me some questions instead of just starting some.


Joshua

[taylor]

There's no "purpose" to anything.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Lior

Hi everyone,

I've been thinking a lot lately about how we strive to become enlightened (by letting go of the ego, becoming more aware and conscious etc etc), but then it struck me: Where is this all leading?

Theoretically, you become enlightened. You feel peace and joy and love. The world becomes a wonderful place to live if everyone was enlightened and there is a New Earth. But what's the point of all this? Where is it leading? Sure, it's great to feel all those wonderful things and to have a heaven-like place to live - but what is the point of life once everyone is enlightened and everything is "perfect"? What happens next?

Excited to hear your thoughts on this

There are many stages of being awake. It's not a binary situation where you either are or you aren't. There is a continuum of awakeness. The situation of feeling peace, joy, and love, while physically incarnate, is not fully awake. It's only awake relative to some less harmonious states of being. So if you're curious where all this is headed in the illusion of duality, the answer is more connection. At some point in a future, we will become a social memory complex, or a society in which the experiences of all, are available to all. And then it just keeps evolving in the direction of more and more connection, until one fully wakes up from the illusion of separation.

If you're talking about completely stepping out of experiencing duality (that is to say: full awakening), that could be considered a binary situation where you either have or you haven't (this is actual dissolution of the ego, rather than just releasing some layers of it). No middle ground in that situation.

Once you wake up completely, there is no form whatsoever, only raw awareness. There is no time, no memory -- just utter unity and infinite potential. It is totally unconditioned (no limits imposed). There is a choice to either remain, or experience another illusion. Since there is no time, the choice could be considered to be immediate to create another kinetic illusion to move through. It has happened countless times before. Or hasn't, depending on how you look at it.

Fully awake makes history nonexistent.

Anyway, the purpose is whatever you make it. The fact is, you are consciousness. You exist. You can't do anything about that. You are the creator -- you are everything that exists. Awakening *IS* the purpose. Not being awake, but awakening. Believe it or not, that is where all the satisfaction is at. That is the best part. Relativity, baby, that's where it's at.

Nothing compares to gradually coming into awareness of who you really are.

[Lior]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

You didn't answer my question. Why do you need a purpose?

Once you stop trying to be the controller of your life, and simply witnessing what is, then everything will be seen to be perfect. Purpose will not matter. There is no one to control it.

Purpose gives life direction, meaning, a reason for being, a point to being here. If it were all pointless and meaningless and there really was nothing more to it, then there's not much reason to keep going other than seemingly shallow reasons like "enjoying the beauty of life" and feeling joy / love etc. Maybe you dont mind so much if you're enlightened and just in bliss but somehow this feels a bit like a cop-out when you stop seeking because you're so distracted by peace and bliss. When the world is perfect you stop caring about purpose but just because you stop caring and stop seeking it doesnt mean an answer doesnt exist. Although then again there is the chance that an answer doesnt exist in the first place!

I can't tell if it's my ego/ desire talking or if I'm tuned into some inner wisdom/ intuition in feeling that there should be more to being here.

- -

Originally Posted by Arcanum

I don't know what happens when all of humanity is awakened, but I suspect that's the end of this particular game. However, I wouldn't mark the event on your calendar just yet. There is also the distinct possibility that instead of awakening, humanity will hesitate in the final hour and simply cease to exist.

I definitely feel like it will be the end of this particular game too. I wonder what kind of sources/ books there are on theories about what happens next. If anyone has any suggested readings let me know

- -

Originally Posted by Anagogy

Once you wake up completely, there is no form whatsoever, only raw awareness. There is no time, no memory -- just utter unity and infinite potential.

Anagogy, thank you for your response - you raise a lot of interesting points and it is definitely along the lines that I am thinking. My question is - once people reach the state of "no form" and "only raw awareness" - at that state where there is no time, no memory and there is complete connection and one-ness, what is the next step from there? Is it just an infinite limbo of one-ness with no end and no direction? or is there direction within that state? and if there is a direction in that state, where is it leading?

[Arz Sra]

You cannot ask what the purpose of enlightenment is. its like asking what is the purpose of that chair there. The purpose of chair , if any, is to remain a chair. Enlightenment is not a conscious human which has some ideas in mind regarding where he wants to reach. Enlightenment is just a state and if it as any purpose then it is just to be. just that , nothing more.

We do have certain expectation from physical objects as well as figments of our minds, enlightenment being one of them. If you are striving to be enlightened then the purpose is also yours. Different people seek enlightenment for different reasons. that becomes the purpose behind seeking enlightenment ( seeking enlightenment, not enlightenment itself).

Theoretically, you become enlightened. You feel peace and joy and love.

have you experienced this or have you just heard others say? It is within your mind that you decide to believe this or not. What may be truth for others will only obstruct your way if you hold it to be so. just realize that you cannot afford to have any certainty regarding the state of enlightenment.

The world becomes a wonderful place to live if everyone was enlightened and there is a New Earth. But what's the point of all this? Where is it leading? Sure, it's great to feel all those wonderful things and to have a heaven-like place to live - but what is the point of life once everyone is enlightened and everything is "perfect"? What happens next?

You are right. There is no longer a point in life. Its just that one would realize that, not that pointlessness of life emerged suddenly. it was always there but we were busy binding it within our models... I cannot say what happens next but I am sure that if the whole world gets enlightened this question would not arise at all..

[Lior]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

You cannot ask what the purpose of enlightenment is. its like asking what is the purpose of that chair there. The purpose of chair , if any, is to remain a chair.

The purpose of the chair is to be sat on, to let your legs rest, to give you a comfortable place to position yourself whilst you do other activities. Its purpose is to be a chair but it has functions. It's a bit hard to compare a chair and something like enlightenment but I would have thought there were also functions to enlightenment. But - I totally acknowledge the possibility that it could be just a state of being with nothing more to it than that.

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

We do have certain expectation from physical objects as well as figments of our minds, enlightenment being one of them. If you are striving to be enlightened then the purpose is also yours. Different people seek enlightenment for different reasons. that becomes the purpose behind seeking enlightenment ( seeking enlightenment, not enlightenment itself).

True. I just am entertaining the idea that there may be some commonality; some common reason for universal existence of humans too.

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

have you experienced this or have you just heard others say? It is within your mind that you decide to believe this or not. What may be truth for others will only obstruct your way if you hold it to be so. just realize that you cannot afford to have any certainty regarding the state of enlightenment.

ugh - yeh you're right. I am basing things on what I've heard others say. There have been similar teachings from people who have experienced enlightenment. It seems to suggest that it has a higher chance of being true if several people are saying the same thing independently. But you're right - there is no certainy. As frustrating as that is!

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Lior

Anagogy, thank you for your response - you raise a lot of interesting points and it is definitely along the lines that I am thinking. My question is - once people reach the state of "no form" and "only raw awareness" - at that state where there is no time, no memory and there is complete connection and one-ness, what is the next step from there? Is it just an infinite limbo of one-ness with no end and no direction? or is there direction within that state? and if there is a direction in that state, where is it leading?

From that state of awareness, there are literally infinite possibilities.

You might say the creator is engaged in an eternal act of knowing itself, which results in the creation of illusions. And the creator is love. So you could also say the purpose of life is to move through love in all of its manifestations. Everything you experience that is not perfect love, or joy, is simply the resistance to love. You come to know that which you are, through that which you are not. The whole illusion of duality to begin with is created from the false idea that there can be something other than perfect love/oneness/joy/peace/take your pick.

As I said in my other post (not sure if you got a chance to read it after I reworded some of it), expansion is always the purpose (that is to say, expansion into who you really are). You couldn't experience awakening if you didn't first make yourself ignorant (hence the egoic condition).

You have to be a little cold to truly appreciate warmth, be a little hungry to truly appreciate food, and be a child to truly appreciate the value of being a good parent. This is why the illusion is created, not because it is some sort of requirement or test or anything like that, but rather, it is for the experience. Everything is created for the experience.

Nothing compares to waking up to who you really are. That's always the underlying reason for the illusion. It's like the common saying, "It's about the journey, not the destination."

So once you achieve non-duality, you go back to -- yep, you guessed it: duality. The process is eternal, and cyclical, and while the underlying reason is always the same, the specifics are different every time.

[ChristsLight]

Why does there have to be a reason to continue? Why can't you live without a reason?

[Arz Sra]

The purpose of the chair is to be sat on, to let your legs rest, to give you a comfortable place to position yourself whilst you do other activities. Its purpose is to be a chair but it has functions.

There is no purpose of the chair.. you have purposes regarding the chair like sitting etc etc.. its not the chair that has some purpose.. Mind has purposes not objects.. and these purposes depend upon your past-conditionings..

[Lior]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

There is no purpose of the chair.. you have purposes regarding the chair like sitting etc etc.. its not the chair that has some purpose.. Mind has purposes not objects.. and these purposes depend upon your past-conditionings..

I guess the difference is that people created the chair with its functions in mind, so its very existence has a purpose (albeit a mind-constructed one), otherwise it wouldnt be here. Without the mind, it wouldnt be here in the first place.

Now, I don't know what our creator was - whether it was evolutionary chance or something more significant; but if it was the latter, you'd think that we were created with a purpose in mind, much like the chair was. If the former is the case - then perhaps there really is no purpose other than that which we construct for ourselves.

[Lior]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Why does there have to be a reason to continue? Why can't you live without a reason?

You *can*, and most people do.

It's just that my mind doesn't like it because it feels unsatisfied :P It feels like there should be a reason. Much like before we knew about gravity, we knew there was a force that keeps things on the ground. You can't see it, but you just know there is *something* holding everyone down. Similarly I can't help but think there is something driving our existence.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Lior

You *can*, and most people do.

It's just that my mind doesn't like it because it feels unsatisfied :P It feels like there should be a reason.

Exactly. Your mind wants a reason. Enlightenment is beyond mind. Mind always wants to achieve something, wants something to validate its existence.

[Lior]

Originally Posted by Anagogy

From that state of awareness, there are literally infinite possibilities.

You might say the creator is engaged in an eternal act of knowing itself, which results in the creation of illusions.... So once you achieve non-duality, you go back to -- yep, you guessed it: duality. The process is eternal, and cyclical, and while the underlying reason is always the same, the specifics are different every time.

If I understood correctly you saying the underlying reason to this cycle is the eternal act in which the connected entity (which we are all a part of) knowing itself better? I feel like it's a never ending stream of questions: Then the next question is: "Why should it know itself better? And what happens once it knows itself?" To what end does it want to know itself?

[Lior]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Exactly. Your mind wants a reason. Enlightenment is beyond mind. Mind always wants to achieve something, wants something to validate its existence.

Although - what if it's not the mind wanting the answer? What if it's your inner being wanting the answer? (I can't differentiate which is talking within me). Your non-egoic true self has certain motivations too I imagine.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

You cannot ask what the purpose of enlightenment is. its like asking what is the purpose of that chair there. The purpose of chair , if any, is to remain a chair.

The purpose of a chair is to provide a place to sit. It was built for that purpose. This is pretty common knowledge, I think. Do you have another analogy?

Enlightenment is just a state and if it as any purpose then it is just to be. just that , nothing more.

It is not a state of mind, but rather the transcendence of all mind states.
It has the purpose of ending suffering; something that is even more useful than sitting in a chair.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Lior

Although - what if it's not the mind wanting the answer? What if it's your inner being wanting the answer? (I can't differentiate which is talking within me). Your non-egoic true self has certain motivations too I imagine.

How can the true Self have any motivations? Can it be anything other than what it is?

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Arz Sra

There is no purpose of the chair.. you have purposes regarding the chair like sitting etc etc.. its not the chair that has some purpose.. Mind has purposes not objects.. and these purposes depend upon your past-conditionings..

So now "the purpose of the chair" has become 'The purpose the chair has for itself'? Are you sure you want to keep going down that bunny hole, or would you rather cut your losses and use a different analogy?

[evolavas]

Purpose?

In the end we all don't really "know"..but hey, isn't the searching, wandering, and never-arriving a wonderfully liberating way to live?

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Lior

I guess the difference is that people created the chair with its functions in mind, so its very existence has a purpose (albeit a mind-constructed one), otherwise it wouldnt be here. Without the mind, it wouldnt be here in the first place.

Now, I don't know what our creator was - whether it was evolutionary chance or something more significant; but if it was the latter, you'd think that we were created with a purpose in mind, much like the chair was. If the former is the case - then perhaps there really is no purpose other than that which we construct for ourselves.

Creation is a spontaneous expression of Intelligence, meaning mind isn't there to plan a purpose, since the individuated mind in which things like purpose arise is one of those creations.

[evolavas]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Creation is a spontaneous expression of Intelligence, meaning mind isn't there to plan a purpose, since the individuated mind in which things like purpose arise is one of those creations.

Very interesting point you have here.

Thanks for sharing and take care.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Lior

If I understood correctly you saying the underlying reason to this cycle is the eternal act in which the connected entity (which we are all a part of) knowing itself better? I feel like it's a never ending stream of questions: Then the next question is: "Why should it know itself better? And what happens once it knows itself?" To what end does it want to know itself?

That which is prior to creation has no interest in knowing itself. 'It' doesn't know it exists.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Lior

Although - what if it's not the mind wanting the answer? What if it's your inner being wanting the answer? (I can't differentiate which is talking within me). Your non-egoic true self has certain motivations too I imagine.

No true self. All motivations are mind motivations.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by evolavas

Purpose?

In the end we all don't really "know"..but hey, isn't the searching, wandering, and never-arriving a wonderfully liberating way to live?

Yup, right up until it becomes a miserable way to live.