Spiritually Speaking, why should we go vegetarian if animals eat each other?

[arpee]

I know vegetarian is trying to show love for the animals, but we still have to keep plants in order to survive. We've still killing, and animals will still kill each other since they must eat. It seems like it's natural, it's the way God made nature. I'm open minded and I would really like to know why animals eat each other if vegetarian is the way...

[taylor]

Material life is war.

Nature is very brutal.

That said, people with a sensitive conscience want to minimize the amount of suffering they inflict on others. Plants don't have pain or emotions like animals do so eating them causes less suffering. That's why certain people choose to remove meat from their diet.

Btw, just because something is found in nature doesn't mean it's a good idea to emulate as a human.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by taylor

Btw, just because something is found in nature doesn't mean it's a good idea to emulate as a human.

Correctamundo ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[RonSouther]

As I've been waking up to ego, I've been growing greatly fond of nature and seeing in me a distaste for many meat products that I used to like. No beliefs telling me to stop, just a distaste for what I'm eating and I'm guessing it's because of a greater reverence for animals than before.

It's a hard question because eating is not a choice. We eat to live and the earth provides all the food for every living creature.

I can see the heart of your question.

Another argument is that since man's bowels are so long and his teeth are not for tearing meat that we are vegetarians by nature. On the other hand, I could argue that a long bowel works for both animal products and for veggies so maybe we adapted to consume both?

I don't know, I just see in me a shift to more salads, which I've always loved but now love so much more. The best I ever feel after a meal is with salad.

[thelightwithin]

Human ancestors who roamed the dry and open savannas of Africa about 2 million years ago routinely began to include meat in their diets to compensate for a serious decline in the quality of plant foods, according to a physical anthropologist at the University of California, Berkeley.

It was this new meat diet, full of densely-packed nutrients, that provided the catalyst for human evolution, particularly the growth of the brain, said Katharine Milton, an authority on primate diet.

Food for thought.

[SkylightMT]

Human beings are the only species that doesn't know what to eat.

[ChristsLight]

You shouldn't do anything. You can come up with reasons for any course of action, but they are only excuses. Whatever comes up from inspiration to do is what you should do. That might mean eating meat and that might mean being a vegetarian. Why label yourself?

I eat whatever I feel like eating. But I send love to it all and thank it all, whether its meat, vegetable, fruit, grain, etc. I love and thank it all.

[GregD]

I believe those who do not eat meat for the "not killing" reason are looking at the world with very narrow awareness. If they truly treasure life then big or small life should be equally important for them. And if this is the case then any educated person knows that we are constantly killing thousands if not millions of tiny insects, organisms and bacteria every single day without even noticing or thinking about it.

Yesterday I saw a video where a scientist was showing that when we wash our hands with just water something like 80% of bacteria on our hands are washed off. Now these millions of bacterias were happy eating off our body and we wash them off at least 1 time per day where for certain at least a couple of million of them will die.

Larger creatures are just a collection of a vast majority of smaller creatures.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by arpee

I know vegetarian is trying to show love for the animals, but we still have to keep plants in order to survive. We've still killing, and animals will still kill each other since they must eat. It seems like it's natural, it's the way God made nature. I'm open minded and I would really like to know why animals eat each other if vegetarian is the way...

There's nothing necessarily spiritual about being vegetarian. It's a lifestyle decision, and like all lifestyle decisions it comes with trade-offs. I cook vegan, but when I'm out and about, I eat whatever I'm served. The reason I eat vegan at home is because I don't want to support America's factory farmed meat industry any more than I have to. And I don't eat vegan when I'm out because I don't want to be "that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥" that refuses to be social and do what others do. If more places made vegan a priority, I'd eat vegan while I was out.

That said, when you get into hardcore spiritual practices, eating vegan does put less pressure on your energetic system. But that doesn't mean you can't eat meat, just don't do any heavy energy work after a big meal.

[velan]

Originally Posted by taylor

Plants don't have pain or emotions like animals do so eating them causes less suffering.

this is not correct.

eating fruits, vegetables; etc is same as killing animals and eating. then how would you eat ? well, my understanding is, don't pluck the fruits, eat the fruits that already have been fell down.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by arpee

I know vegetarian is trying to show love for the animals, but we still have to keep plants in order to survive. We've still killing, and animals will still kill each other since they must eat. It seems like it's natural, it's the way God made nature. I'm open minded and I would really like to know why animals eat each other if vegetarian is the way...

I like this quote by Eckhart Tolle:

Our collective human world is largely created through the level of consciousness we
call mind. Even within the collective human world there are vast differences, many
125different "sub-worlds," depending on the perceivers or creators of their respective
worlds. Since all worlds are interconnected, when collective human consciousness
becomes transformed, nature and the animal kingdom will reflect that transformation.
Hence the statement in the Bible that in the coming age "The lion shall lie down with
the lamb." This points to the possibility of a completely different order of reality.
The world as it appears to us now is, as I said, largely a reflection of the egoic mind.
Fear being an unavoidable consequence of egoic delusion, it is a world dominated by
fear. Just as the images in a dream are symbols of inner states and feelings, so our
collective reality is largely a symbolic expression of fear and of the heavy layers of
negativity that have accumulated in the collective human psyche. We are not separate
from our world, so when the majority of humans become free of egoic delusion, this
inner change will affect all of creation. You will literally inhabit a new world.

So animals eating each other and so on is a manifestation of our consciousness, or maybe the state of consciousness itself of which we are a key part.

Humans can however rise above the general state of consciousness, so vegetarianism and higher vibration ways of eating than that become possible at least for the individual.

I heard something interesting when I was reading about breatharianism. Apparently the pets of breatharian owners become breatharian themselves.

Breatharianism, by the way, is when a connection to Source energy becomes the only fuel your body needs. The idea is soo out there even I have trouble believing it, but it seems legit. Hira Ratan Manek (practising an unusual form of breatharianism that requires gazing at the sun) has been studied scientifically I think twice under rigorous conditions. Solar Healing Center

Breatharianism carries no potential for harm for other beings at all, and doesn't even require trees to use resources in creating fruit for you to eat. So it's the highest vibration way of "eating". Fruitarianism is the next highest, of course, as it causes no harm to the plant most of the time. Then it's veganism, vegetarianism, meat eating, and finally the lowest vibration way of eating is cannibalism. I don't know if there's anything even worse for your vibration.

I read once an interesting concept. It said "you eat what you are". This seemed to explain a lot. Switching vibrations can imply a switch in diet. And a switch in diet can help catalyse you to a switch in vibration. But in the end if your vibration won't shift a diet can't work. It's all about what's inside... the external, while important, does come second as they say.

[Sekret Weapon]

In 50 years we wont have to take animals for their meat.

Thank your Dr. J Craig Ventor for creating synthetic life!

[Arcanum]

Life supports life. This is Love in action. Stop making everything into a problem to solve.

[Luciddd]

I heard a story, dont know if it is true. About a Sage that lived in a jungle, and someday an animal (dont remember which) came accross, the Sage was hungry and somehow communicated with the animal, the animal bow down and allowed the Sage to kill it willingly.

Dont know what happened, but if there is a "correct way" of eating, that might be it.

[krugerapc]

i was listening to a podcast on buddhism that answered the question- are all buddhists vegetarian. the answer was no. the reason - apparently there are studies that look at the energy reaction of plants. according to this gentleman, scientist were able to measure a specific change and reaction from a plant that was about to be cut down or snipped. this study (i dont know what it is or by whom) shows that plants understand and react to death or destruction. that being said, anything that you eat being animal or plant must be killed for you to survive and DOES respond to this.

i think the point - live in gratitude. understand that life feeds life. someday you also will fee life (we already do) but to the same extent. dont kill uselessly and use what you kill. appreciate what you have and live in this manner.

just my thoughts.

kruger

[Andrew Brunelle]

Coming from a meat eater here, I have no problem with killing animals for food on a small scale. It is the systematic extermination of animals that goes on in factory farms that turns my stomach. It is fine for someone to go out and hunt for food and then eat it. But keeping animals in cages from cradle to slaughterhouse is simply inhumane. If animals were killed in less brutal ways and in much smaller quantities, then maybe it would be more acceptable to eat them. But the sad part is that most of us (including myself) could not hunt and kill and skin/debone an animal ourselves. And I mean from all aspects (emotional, physical, spiritual). So therein lies the problem.

The funny thing is that you never hear about the animal killing that goes on in the name of growing vegetables. Vegans and vegetarians do not have clean hands. So many rodents and other creatures are killed just to create farmland. The sad part is that all that rotting flesh is going to waste when it could be eaten, although I would pass on the raccoon.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by krugerapc

i was listening to a podcast on buddhism that answered the question- are all buddhists vegetarian. the answer was no. the reason - apparently there are studies that look at the energy reaction of plants. according to this gentleman, scientist were able to measure a specific change and reaction from a plant that was about to be cut down or snipped. this study (i dont know what it is or by whom) shows that plants understand and react to death or destruction. that being said, anything that you eat being animal or plant must be killed for you to survive and DOES respond to this.

I know of this and am still vegan for ethical reasons - that said, I think this bit of info really does change things. It makes it much harder to get all fundamentalist about it and think that a vegan causes NO harm while a non-vegan causes harm. It's not that simple and I think it's a dangerous delusion to have because you can become very judgemental and angry at others.

Veganism is and always has been about minimising the harm caused to other beings through our existence. Causing absolutely no harm has always been a fantasy. Past a certain point, actively doing good rather than minimising harm becomes more important anyway.

All that said, I think it's very much worth thinking hard about this topic. For anyone who is curious, I'd recommend a thirty day trial to see what it's like. This is because it's so easy to think of vegans and vegetarians as "other" than yourself, which makes it much harder to get into their skin and actually seriously weigh up the viewpoint based on its merits.

Particularly ask yourself:

When I am not eating meat or animal products, do I feel lighter, like I'm not struggling with some internal conflict?

Can I notice a subtle unrecognised guilt about eating animals?

Am I really so indifferent about this when I am being totally honest with myself? (Remember to seperate your desire for the eating experience of meat and the feeling that comes from when you meditate on what meat actually is).

In the end I think it's worth doing this in some way for "yourself". That is, don't do it because of some externally enforced set of morals. Instead, do it because your "self" makes it clear to you that this is the path you need to take.

Not because of what anyone else says. Not even because of logic (which can be bent). Because it's what "you" says. An impulse that comes from your deepest being.

And because you feel good when you follow this impulse. You feel like you're not at conflict with yourself, and that feels good.

I bet someone is going to jump up and say that this is a "darkworker" philosophy to which I'll say I just don't believe in the duality between service to self and service to others.

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by arpee

I know vegetarian is trying to show love for the animals, but we still have to keep plants in order to survive. We've still killing, and animals will still kill each other since they must eat. It seems like it's natural, it's the way God made nature. I'm open minded and I would really like to know why animals eat each other if vegetarian is the way...

If you look at animals that eat plants (deer, rabbits, etc..) those animals are usually very friendly, pleasant, smell good however if you look at animals that eat other animals; tigers, lions, etc... they're more savage.

Also, plants come from Source. They have a higher vibration then dead meat. As you put more life you put into you, you'll get more life out of what you eat. Also, that high vibration from Source foods will have you feelings healthy, clean, and peaceful. Experiment with it and see what you like.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by TonyToneTone

If you look at animals that eat plants (deer, rabbits, etc..) those animals are usually very friendly, pleasant, smell good however if you look at animals that eat other animals; tigers, lions, etc... they're more savage.

Also, plants come from Source. They have a higher vibration then dead meat. As you put more life you put into you, you'll get more life out of what you eat. Also, that high vibration from Source foods will have you feelings healthy, clean, and peaceful. Experiment with it and see what you like.

Deer Attack - YouTube Hehe.


"Also, plants come from Source. They have a higher vibration then dead meat."
What does this mean?

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by TonyToneTone

If you look at animals that eat plants (deer, rabbits, etc..) those animals are usually very friendly, pleasant, smell good however if you look at animals that eat other animals; tigers, lions, etc... they're more savage.

Does it make sense that carnivores would need to be more aggressive if they plan to actually survive? Their dinner doesn't usually come planted in the ground. So maybe instead of 'We are what we eat', it's more like 'We eat what we are'.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Deer Attack - YouTube Hehe.

OMG! Revenge of the deer! That's funny.

"Also, plants come from Source. They have a higher vibration then dead meat."
What does this mean?

It means God made plants and they wiggle faster than animals, who were made by the devil. Try to keep up, Chris.

[Keiju]

Vegetarianism is about what is good for you, OPTIMAL performance, not love for animals. At least that is the case for myself.
If eating meat was best for us, I would eat meat. However I do not find this to be the case.

Eating meat is inefficient and unneccesary. This places a burden on the economic performance of the entire world.


Why bother eating meat when you dont have to?
So then the only reason I can think of is for its taste.


People eat what appeals to them based on their knowledge, not what is going to help them in their life, and achieve their goals.
The funny thing is meat is not even appealing! Its just a conditioned habit that most peoples body has become accustomed to.
When you smell meat being cooked and you think it appeals to you, the body is being fooled by the chemicals released into the air, its but a minor portion of what constitutes the meat.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

It means God made plants and they wiggle faster than animals, who were made by the devil. Try to keep up, Chris.

That would explain why I was having a seizure after my salad last night and that squirrel who eye balled me. I knew I saw the devil in his eyes!

[ChrisGinsburg]

I wonder if we could safely eat venus fly traps without damaging our karma. I mean they are the immoral sinners of the plant world.

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Does it make sense that carnivores would need to be more aggressive if they plan to actually survive? Their dinner doesn't usually come planted in the ground. So maybe instead of 'We are what we eat', it's more like 'We eat what we are'.

This could be the case as well.

Deer Attack - YouTube Hehe.


"Also, plants come from Source. They have a higher vibration then dead meat."
What does this mean?

LOL Good stuff. I meant to say that plants have vitality to them, there is life in them whereas the meat, especially after being cooked, is devitalized.

Try a week or so of being vegan and see what happens. You can always go back to your old way of eating.

Vegetarianism is about what is good for you, OPTIMAL performance, not love for animals. At least that is the case for myself.
If eating meat was best for us, I would eat meat. However I do not find this to be the case.

Eating meat is inefficient and unneccesary. This places a burden on the economic performance of the entire world.

Exactly. Great post.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Keiju

Vegetarianism is about what is good for you, OPTIMAL performance, not love for animals. At least that is the case for myself.
If eating meat was best for us, I would eat meat. However I do not find this to be the case.

Eating meat is inefficient and unneccesary. This places a burden on the economic performance of the entire world.


Why bother eating meat when you dont have to?
So then the only reason I can think of is for its taste.


People eat what appeals to them based on their knowledge, not what is going to help them in their life, and achieve their goals.
The funny thing is meat is not even appealing! Its just a conditioned habit that most peoples body has become accustomed to.
When you smell meat being cooked and you think it appeals to you, the body is being fooled by the chemicals released into the air, its but a minor portion of what constitutes the meat.

Sounds like you miss it.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

That would explain why I was having a seizure after my salad last night and that squirrel who eye balled me. I knew I saw the devil in his eyes!

If you put your vegies in the blender, it slows down the wiggling a bit.

[Keiju]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Sounds like you miss it.

Yeh, like i said I have no problem eating it. Its just not optimal for what I am trying to do.

Your body is made up of what you eat, Id rather it not be some animal who lived a horrid life. Not to mention you get a ton of female hormones in your meat, given its all cow, which is girl. Id want to eat male animals if I did, of which I do not have the choice.


I kind of believe if you cant kill the animal yourself and butcher it for your meal, you shouldnt be eating meat, as it confuses people, what it means to be a meat eater. Thats quite the disparity between someone who hunts his food, blood and guts included as opposed to hunting for meat at your local super market :/