Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

arpee · 11-12-2011, 09:31 PM

If God is everything (the universe) then that would mean that there is no such thing as non-living things. All things are living in essence (animism). Even water, a rock, a pencil, and a piece of paper. If God is love and God is everything, then that would mean that there is love in nature and in all people even if we can't see it, it would mean that it's impossible for a being to be 100% hateful, it could only be 99% at most because 1% would at least have to be love if God is everything...

But, here is the thing, is there really love in nature? Is a flowing loving? or is it just peace - just being what it is while living in acceptance of all things?

Is a rock loving, or is it just peaceful?

I cannot sense any love in a rock, tree, or flower, but I do sense a lack of emotion, a sense of calmness, peace, acceptance, an allowance of letting things be as they are...

The natural state of being is peace, calmness, stillness, non-emotion, detachment....

It is only certain moments of life or effort which makes us happy or unhappy.

So, does it make more sense to say that peace (non-emotion/detachment) is the natural state of being and thus peace is more dominant and God is peace (acceptance/detachment) or does it still make sense to say that God is love even though there is no love in a rock or a paper or a pencil?

If God is love and God is everything then the natural state should be love and happiness, but if God is peace and God is everything then it would explain why peace is the natural state and why we sometimes drift from happy and sad until we find our peace, what do you think?

Irisha · 11-12-2011, 10:03 PM

How is it possible to say God is peace if everything that is created by him is to be later destroyed? Do you know anything that will not be later destroyed?

How is it possible to say God is love if everything that IS - suffers? EVERYTHING suffers because it is to be destroyed.

There are no non-living things . All things are alive and suffer. If we don't have the ability to sense it , it doesn't mean that a rock is not 'alive'. A plant CAN suffer (it is proved by science that plants 'feel' thoughts and emotions of the people, and their vibrations change, and even the direction in which they are growing changes depending on how a person treats them). Then why is a rock not able to 'feel' and suffer?
Water can also feel and suffer. It is also proved by science. Water changes its structure depending on what is taking place nearby. The pictures of crystals of frozen water are absolutely different if they are taken when , for ex., good, kind words are said, or if the opposite, the curses are said. And anybody can see which picture corresponds to the positive, and which one to the negative.

arpee · 11-12-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

How is it possible to say God is peace if everything that is created by him is to be later destroyed? Do you know anything that will not be later destroyed?

How is it possible to say God is love if everything that IS - suffers? EVERYTHING suffers because it is to be destroyed.

If I love someone, and they put their hand in fire, it'll still burn them... they'll still suffer... If God loves someone and they put their hand in fire, it'll still burn them... they'll still suffer. God it's completely possible for God to be love even if people suffer.

God loves so much that he gives us free will and that includes choosing to do something which causes you or others to suffer...

taylor · 11-12-2011, 10:32 PM

No thing can love truly. (a rock, a flower, a pencil, a person, etc.)

What is called love by, let's say a human, is an emotion or an intention which is limited in scope and duration. It's not a universal love, it's just a limited relative sentiment or another illusion.

What is called peace by a human is also an emotion or attitude of calmness, which is also limited in scope and duration. It's not universal either.

Non-duality is absolute love/peace/joy.

It's not an emotion. It's beyond all description because it has no tangible qualities like specific things, including specific emotions. People just use love/peace/joy as a metaphor to describe non-duality because that's the best description they have to work with.

In non-duality there are no rocks, people, or separate entities.

If you perceive of a rock as a separate entity who can have emotions of love or hate, then you're not talking about universal love at all, you're talking about human feelings.

Materially speaking, as far as I know, rocks don't have emotions or need them. What you'll find is that people enter into states of consciousness where non-dual awareness starts to shine through the separation and they see that "all is love" in the universal rather than emotional sense.

arpee · 11-12-2011, 10:42 PM

I wasn't saying that a rock is an entity that can love, I was saying that love itself is a vital force flowing through all things.

Irisha · 11-12-2011, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arpee

If I love someone, and they put their hand in fire, it'll still burn them... they'll still suffer... If God loves someone and they put their hand in fire, it'll still burn them... they'll still suffer. God it's completely possible for God to be love even if people suffer.

God loves so much that he gives us free will and that includes choosing to do something which causes you or others to suffer...

So, why do we all choose to die?

newkaren · 11-12-2011, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taylor

No thing can love truly. (a rock, a flower, a pencil, a person, etc.)

What is called love by, let's say a human, is an emotion or an intention which is limited in scope and duration. It's not a universal love, it's just a limited relative sentiment or another illusion.

I would disagree.

There are some people that I love no matter what. Yes, I might have to cut them out of my life for whatever reason. But I still love them.

arpee · 11-12-2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

So, why do we all choose to die?

I don't think we choose to die.

Irisha · 11-12-2011, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arpee

I don't think we choose to die.

Then why does God want us and everything to die?

arpee · 11-12-2011, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

Then why does God want us and everything to die?

I don't think there is any desire or "want" for this to happen, God is just letting things run their own course while loving us.

Irisha · 11-12-2011, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arpee

I don't think there is any desire or "want" for this to happen, God is just letting things run their own course while loving us.

Doesn't matter how to call it - God wants, or God let things run.
So, things run in the way that every thing will be destroyed, sooner or later. Is this what you call God's love, and peace?

taylor · 11-12-2011, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newkaren

I would disagree.

There are some people that I love no matter what. Yes, I might have to cut them out of my life for whatever reason. But I still love them.

It's conditional.

Let's say you damage the part of your brain that stores memory or recognizes faces. Suddenly you don't even know this person.

Then you have the constantly changing attitudes, perceptions, and emotions associated with people. This is suppressed and simplified as one overall "loving." It's more a linguistic convenience than a reality, where you feel different ways all the time to people, often several different things at once.

Then let's take the possibility of betrayal on a deep level. What if say your spouse comes out with it finally and admits it was all a scam, they never felt anything and just were using you for whatever reason, Bye. Their quirks were manufactured to make you fall in love and you don't even know them.

Then of course what are you really in love with anyway? A body image, a personality, a smell, something physical that is vulnerable to death. If they die, you will say you still love them. What are they though to you though? You feel a certain way about a memory, a mental picture you are generating. Is that really them you love?

Love between separate entities is always vulnerable. Attempting to make duality eternal is impossible. Thank goodness.

taylor · 11-12-2011, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

Doesn't matter how to call it - God wants, or God let things run.
So, things run in the way that every thing will be destroyed, sooner or later. Is this what you call God's love, and peace?

God doesn't have anything to do with that. Your issue is with the projections of your ego.

arpee · 11-12-2011, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

Doesn't matter how to call it - God wants, or God let things run.
So, things run in the way that every thing will be destroyed, sooner or later. Is this what you call God's love, and peace?

Just because something is allowed to happen, doesn't mean it's wanted. But God wont stop if from happening because he loves so much that he allows all to happen...

alphamind · 11-12-2011, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

How is it possible to say God is peace if everything that is created by him is to be later destroyed? Do you know anything that will not be later destroyed?

How is it possible to say God is love if everything that IS - suffers? EVERYTHING suffers because it is to be destroyed.

I'm in full agreement with you. The universe isn't a pretty place with all suffering that goes around.

Even something like peace is completely subjective, since not all living things live in complete stillness.

I have come to realize God is to blame for everything. Gurus (let me correct that... amazon-gurus) give themselves and humanity too much credit for their reality. We did not consciously choose our parents or our physical body, it's all part of creation unfolding just like our reality.

So there is an existence out there made out of pure ecstasy and love, though for all we know there could be a literal hell somewhere. Everything is subjective and unbiased, but that doesn't change the fact that suffering DOES exist in the universe... and I don't care why or how. If it exists, then something is seriously sick and twisted with this universe and being in denial doesn't fix the issue.

God is an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. It just is that way though, I wont argue about that.

Irisha · 11-12-2011, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taylor

God doesn't have anything to do with that. Your issue is with the projections of your ego.

Oh, God doesn't have anything to do with the suffering of the world because of the inevitable distraction? It's just the projection of my ego that everything is suffering and dying. Wonderful.

taylor · 11-12-2011, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

Oh, God doesn't have anything to do with the suffering of the world because of the inevitable distraction? It's just the projection of my ego that everything is suffering and dying. Wonderful.

It is wonderful actually lol.

Why do you guys even think there is a God to blame?

Irisha · 11-12-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arpee

Just because something is allowed to happen, doesn't mean it's wanted. But God wont stop if from happening because he loves so much that he allows all to happen...

How much lack of responsibility, and how cruel of God I would say... No omnipotence either...

alphamind · 11-12-2011, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taylor

It is wonderful actually lol.

Why do you guys even think there is a God to blame?

You're experiencing this projection right now aren't you? How can there not be a God?

I'm not referring to God as a being, I'm referring to Him as the force behind the creation. If one doesn't believe in God, I don't see how one can believe that they exist. Oh wait...

taylor · 11-12-2011, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphamind

You're experiencing this projection right now aren't you? How can there not be a God?

I'm not referring to God as a being, I'm referring to Him as the force behind the creation. If one doesn't believe in God, I don't see how one can believe that they exist. Oh wait...

What happened. Did you just become an atheist? :P

Irisha · 11-12-2011, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taylor

It is wonderful actually lol.

Why do you guys even think there is a God to blame?

'Wonderful' is said not about God. It's about an Ego which turns out to be responsible for dying of every single piece of the Universe.

newkaren · 11-13-2011, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taylor

It's conditional.

Let's say you damage the part of your brain that stores memory or recognizes faces. Suddenly you don't even know this person.

Then you have the constantly changing attitudes, perceptions, and emotions associated with people. This is suppressed and simplified as one overall "loving." It's more a linguistic convenience than a reality, where you feel different ways all the time to people, often several different things at once.

Then let's take the possibility of betrayal on a deep level. What if say your spouse comes out with it finally and admits it was all a scam, they never felt anything and just were using you for whatever reason, Bye. Their quirks were manufactured to make you fall in love and you don't even know them.

I was thinking more the love between a parent and child. I will forever love my children. I don't care if they were to become mass murders. I would still love them. That is not to say I would condone their behaivor. Just that my love for them in unconditional, and survives into the afterlife.

If I got hit in the head, I might not know I loved them, but once I died I would remember. Just because you don't know about or understand something doesn't mean it's not there.

arpee · 11-13-2011, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

How much lack of responsibility, and how cruel of God I would say... No omnipotence either...

God doesn't have to be responsible to anything. He just loves, that's his nature.

Irisha · 11-13-2011, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arpee

God doesn't have to be responsible to anything. He just loves, that's his nature.

He loves you so much that doesn't care if you die. Why do you love such a God? How have you come to such unconditional love?

arpee · 11-13-2011, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

He loves you so much that doesn't care if you die. Why do you love such a God? How have you come to such unconditional love?

God knows that the soul is eternal and with the soul we are the pure essence of love. God lets it happen because this is life, things are born and die, make room for evolution and for change and for new life to come through. And for old life to live through new perspective.

Irisha · 11-13-2011, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arpee

God knows that the soul is eternal and with the soul we are the pure essence of love. God lets it happen because this is life, things are born and die, make room for evolution and for change and for new life to come through. And for old life to live through new perspective.

Who has told you about that, and why do you believe it instead of thinking yourself and coming to your own conclusions about the things, life and God?

arpee · 11-13-2011, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

Who has told you about that, and why do you believe it instead of thinking yourself and coming to your own conclusions about the things, life and God?

How do you know that I'm not thinking for myself?

Irisha · 11-13-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arpee

How do you know that I'm not thinking for myself?

How can I know? I am just asking:

Why do you love such a God?
How have you come to this unconditional love?
Who has told you what God knows and what He is doing? God Himself? If not then who?
Why do you believe that this is true?

arpee · 11-13-2011, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

How can I know? I am just asking:

You sort of assumed that I was told this stuff and just believing it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisha

Why do you love such a God?
How have you come to this unconditional love?
Who has told you what God knows and what He is doing? God Himself? If not then who?
Why do you believe that this is true?

Love is the natural state of spirit, therefore I love.
Through looking at life through the lens of love.
Love has told me, and therefore God.
Because God is creator.

Irisha · 11-13-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arpee

You sort of assumed that I was told this stuff and just believing it...

Love is the natural state of spirit, therefore I love.
Through looking at life through the lens of love.
Love has told me, and therefore God.
Because God is creator.

Is this your answer to the questions?

So, Love and therefore God has told you. You communicate with God.
Good. He is a very good God.

11-12-2011, 09:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
arpee Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: In Bliss Posts: 398	Is Universe/God love or peace? What is that holy emotion or lack thereof? If God is everything (the universe) then that would mean that there is no such thing as non-living things. All things are living in essence (animism). Even water, a rock, a pencil, and a piece of paper. If God is love and God is everything, then that would mean that there is love in nature and in all people even if we can't see it, it would mean that it's impossible for a being to be 100% hateful, it could only be 99% at most because 1% would at least have to be love if God is everything... But, here is the thing, is there really love in nature? Is a flowing loving? or is it just peace - just being what it is while living in acceptance of all things? Is a rock loving, or is it just peaceful? I cannot sense any love in a rock, tree, or flower, but I do sense a lack of emotion, a sense of calmness, peace, acceptance, an allowance of letting things be as they are... The natural state of being is peace, calmness, stillness, non-emotion, detachment.... It is only certain moments of life or effort which makes us happy or unhappy. So, does it make more sense to say that peace (non-emotion/detachment) is the natural state of being and thus peace is more dominant and God is peace (acceptance/detachment) or does it still make sense to say that God is love even though there is no love in a rock or a paper or a pencil? If God is love and God is everything then the natural state should be love and happiness, but if God is peace and God is everything then it would explain why peace is the natural state and why we sometimes drift from happy and sad until we find our peace, what do you think?

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Love Life (or the lack thereof)	Elan	Psychic & Paranormal	4	10-06-2011 06:41 PM
Lucidity (or the lack thereof)	Nex	Psychic & Paranormal	5	07-09-2009 07:43 PM
Impatient/frustrated over personal development (or lack thereof)	ABdude	Emotional Mastery	11	06-05-2009 04:45 AM
Happiness (or lack thereof)	DaleCall	Emotional Mastery	9	12-19-2007 04:22 AM
Follow my life (or the lack thereof) for awhile	MrMonopoly	Emotional Mastery	10	01-13-2007 02:22 AM

11-12-2011, 10:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
Irisha Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 857	How is it possible to say God is peace if everything that is created by him is to be later destroyed? Do you know anything that will not be later destroyed? How is it possible to say God is love if everything that IS - suffers? EVERYTHING suffers because it is to be destroyed. There are no non-living things . All things are alive and suffer. If we don't have the ability to sense it , it doesn't mean that a rock is not 'alive'. A plant CAN suffer (it is proved by science that plants 'feel' thoughts and emotions of the people, and their vibrations change, and even the direction in which they are growing changes depending on how a person treats them). Then why is a rock not able to 'feel' and suffer? Water can also feel and suffer. It is also proved by science. Water changes its structure depending on what is taking place nearby. The pictures of crystals of frozen water are absolutely different if they are taken when , for ex., good, kind words are said, or if the opposite, the curses are said. And anybody can see which picture corresponds to the positive, and which one to the negative.

11-12-2011, 10:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
taylor Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,827	No thing can love truly. (a rock, a flower, a pencil, a person, etc.) What is called love by, let's say a human, is an emotion or an intention which is limited in scope and duration. It's not a universal love, it's just a limited relative sentiment or another illusion. What is called peace by a human is also an emotion or attitude of calmness, which is also limited in scope and duration. It's not universal either. Non-duality is absolute love/peace/joy. It's not an emotion. It's beyond all description because it has no tangible qualities like specific things, including specific emotions. People just use love/peace/joy as a metaphor to describe non-duality because that's the best description they have to work with. In non-duality there are no rocks, people, or separate entities. If you perceive of a rock as a separate entity who can have emotions of love or hate, then you're not talking about universal love at all, you're talking about human feelings. Materially speaking, as far as I know, rocks don't have emotions or need them. What you'll find is that people enter into states of consciousness where non-dual awareness starts to shine through the separation and they see that "all is love" in the universal rather than emotional sense.

11-12-2011, 10:42 PM	#5 (permalink)
arpee Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: In Bliss Posts: 398	I wasn't saying that a rock is an entity that can love, I was saying that love itself is a vital force flowing through all things.

Personal Development for Smart PeopleTM Forums

Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums