Off-Creation Experiences

[Midnite]

Besides a few individuals on this forum, I have found absolutely no book, website, or other form of medium that even delves into off-Creation experiences in any kind of personalized way beyond that of mere theories of what could possibly exist.

I am going to ease into it by stating that there is more than one Creator in existence. This Universe in its entirety is just one Creator. This particular Universe was bound to a Duality in order to maximize the effectiveness of the experiences gained. Everything is set up to keep you in-Duality and to think otherwise requires a lot of energy to go against the masses.

Other Creations do it differently. One of particular interest to me was twice the size of our own, where it had two Universes coexisting next to each other; one bound to Light and the other bound to Darkness. The Creator was experimenting with the explicit and implicit consequences/advantages of keeping these Universes so close together to one another.

I could go on forever. I am very likely shooting blanks in the dark here.

[Moriarty]

now i feel awkward being the first poster here....listening...more please.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Midnite

I am going to ease into it by stating that there is more than one Creator in existence. This Universe in its entirety is just one Creator. This particular Universe was bound to a Duality in order to maximize the effectiveness of the experiences gained. Everything is set up to keep you in-Duality and to think otherwise requires a lot of energy to go against the masses.

Seems economics is universal. Best cost/value ratio in all the multiverses?

[Midnite]

There is a very simple philosophy; Creators are Creating other Creators, because that is what Creators do. What differentiates one Creator from another is the unique interest in how they go about achieving such a task.

I firstly found myself in an existence overlooking billions of Creators. I was in a sea of golden/cream colored cloud-like energy that had extremely white points scattered across it. It was almost like staring up at the stars of a clear night sky, except instead of there being a black background, it was golden/cream. Those white points represented other Creators all silently existing with each other.

The following is some pretty heavy stuff.

I was taken into a Dark Creation. In other words it was completely polarized to Darkness. A powerful guide led me there. It was very volatile on my way in, it was kind of like traveling through a war zone with explosions going off. There is only one experience I remember about this Creation, and that was the amount of sheer pain I felt while there. I interacted with some beings whose sole 'religion' it was to cause themselves extreme amounts of pain so as to show their loyalty to their Creator. They looked like short black forms living in a desolate environment. Later I was standing in the office of some form of spiritual leader in this underground maze of dark caverns. I could not communicate through words, only through mental imagery and feelings. It is a very strange concept to feel my way through a sentence.

I was looking around and then I suddenly noticed all these body parts on the ceiling of this office. I looked up and I was just ... uncomfortably freaked out to find all those bodies on the ceiling were still alive, and were actually looking at me.. >.>'

The spiritual leader told me to hold my hands out, and so I did as I was told. He suddenly grabbed my hands and cracked my wrists backwards. I could feel the breaking of bone shattering out my senses, and I kept wondering what the hell was going on. He then suddenly cracked them sideways sending more pain up my arms, and he kept doing this over and over again. By the time he finally finished I was exhausted and vaguely conscious, but I returned back my body and woke up in a heated sweat.

I was just weirded out by this experience for weeks on end after this..

Fortunately not all my off-Creation experiences were like this

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Seems economics is universal. Best cost/value ratio in all the multiverses?

Wouldn't want the Creator to be dragging ass

[Midnite]

So where do Creators come from? Anybody know?

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Midnite

So where do Creators come from? Anybody know?

Figments of mind? Creators are mind in action, like your universes.

[ChristsLight]

Aren't you a creator? I know I am. Seeing what creations result is quite interesting. Maybe you're creating the perception of creators?

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Reefs

Figments of mind? Creators are mind in action, like your universes.

Oh that's right, now I remember; you are the only thing that exists in your universe.

There are things that exist that our mind can barely comprehend, if at all. Where do you believe these things comes from?

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Aren't you a creator? I know I am. Seeing what creations result is quite interesting. Maybe you're creating the perception of creators?

In this individualized form I am not on a level to compare myself to the context of Creator I am referring to in this thread.

It's really quite difficult to describe this, but these experiences weren't gained from some meditation session or some afternoon's contemplation. It was through a form of mental projection, very similar and in fact very aligned to that of astral projection. It is a form of OBE that required extremely deep trance.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Midnite

Oh that's right, now I remember; you are the only thing that exists in your universe.

There are things that exist that our mind can barely comprehend, if at all. Where do you believe these things comes from?

I wouldn't say that mind can't comprehend it, it just doesn't make sense to mind so it won't try to comprehend it, it will circumnavigate it - full circle.

So when you throw a monkey wrench into that process called mind and say something like "what is real is prior to mind so you can't say anything about it", there's suddenly silence and you can hear jaws dropping and hitting the floor - and then the chatter resumes and a discussion about the illusory nature of time begins as if nothing had happened.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Midnite

In this individualized form I am not on a level to compare myself to the context of Creator I am referring to in this thread.

You most definitely are. You just aren't able to see your creations yet. You aren't aware of what you are creating, while it seems the creators you perceive are aware of it.

[seeds]

Originally Posted by Midnite

So where do Creators come from? Anybody know?

You already nailed it right on the head with an earlier statement:

Originally Posted by Midnite

There is a very simple philosophy; Creators are Creating other Creators, because that is what Creators do.

When you land on the first illustration in the following link, do not hit "Previous/Home/Next." Just scroll down through the series of illustrations on the same page, there are more below it.

Murmurings


seeds

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Reefs

I wouldn't say that mind can't comprehend it, it just doesn't make sense to mind so it won't try to comprehend it, it will circumnavigate it - full circle.

For example; if I said to you to try and comprehend an existence where nothing happens except for the complete and utter continual existence of heightened states of pure ecstasy.

What would you think of? Maybe some kind of imagery of a higher white existence somewhere? Our mind can't think feelings we are not psychologically able to feel ourselves. The best we are going to get is something anchored to our current reality, for example a white heavenly plane with clouds if we have a religious background.

But to comprehend something we have never seen before and can't really picture without some kind of imagery working together would be very hard. The best we may come up with may not resemble the original description at all. Would we have some kind of rudimentary idea? Probably. Would we be satisfied with learning our 'mind' created this place we can't even think of? Probably not.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Midnite

So where do Creators come from? Anybody know?

I think to answer that question, we'd need to understand the true nature of time. Not just in the silly metaphorical musing sort of way we understand it now, but in a more rigorous fashion. Probably something the human mind can't handle at present.

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by seeds

When you land on the first illustration in the following link, do not hit "Previous/Home/Next." Just scroll down through the series of illustrations on the same page, there are more below it.

Murmurings


seeds

I found your illustrations quite fascinating. I was kind of just drawn into browsing over a few more pages too

It would make for a great coffee table book for when guests are trying to figure out why the hell I am taking so long to get ready. Then Bang! Hardcore spiritual conversation for the rest of the night. Score!

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Midnite

For example; if I said to you to try and comprehend an existence where nothing happens except for the complete and utter continual existence of heightened states of pure ecstasy.

What would you think of? Maybe some kind of imagery of a higher white existence somewhere? Our mind can't think feelings we are not psychologically able to feel ourselves. The best we are going to get is something anchored to our current reality, for example a white heavenly plane with clouds if we have a religious background.

But to comprehend something we have never seen before and can't really picture without some kind of imagery working together would be very hard. The best we may come up with may not resemble the original description at all. Would we have some kind of rudimentary idea? Probably. Would we be satisfied with learning our 'mind' created this place we can't even think of? Probably not.

Mind can't comprehend what is content-free. So as long as there is something that has a meaning like ecstasy then there's enough to build concepts around. Mind will even turn meaningless things like nothing or empty into something meaningful by calling it the origin of everything. And now there's something to build concepts around again.

And I don't see it as accurate to say 'your' mind and 'my' mind when you want to picture the whole phenomenal world. If you could see mind as a process, as a happening, and not as a kind of entity, then it would be more difficult to ascribe it to a certain thinking entity, you wouldn't actually need a thinking entity. And then you wouldn't come to conclusions like creators creating other creators which will only lead to ultimate seeds-ism.

[VinceG]

Also, the current 6 dimensional cycle of life we're dealing with might be able to be extended to 7 dimensions, the seventh being existence as a Creator.

If there are billions of Creators, there might yet be another form of consciousness aggregated from them. In the same way that our consciousnesses aggregate from the collective consciousnesses of our cells, physical, mental, and energetic matter.

I think if we can keep abstracting in this fashion, we'll eventually find the current cutting edge of evolution. What life itself is trying to become.

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Reefs

If you could see mind as a process, as a happening, and not as a kind of entity, then it would be more difficult to ascribe it to a certain thinking entity, you wouldn't actually need a thinking entity. And then you wouldn't come to conclusions like creators creating other creators which will only lead to ultimate seeds-ism.

Reefs I never thought I would see the day where you would make more sense to me than my own rational conclusions based on my own experiences. hmm...

But do you not at least accept that individualized consciousness has taken aboard a certain 'identity' to those who also approach it from another form of individualized consciousness? Though you are completely correct in your above statement, the game exists with fully-fledged characters nonetheless.

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

You most definitely are. You just aren't able to see your creations yet. You aren't aware of what you are creating, while it seems the creators you perceive are aware of it.

I want to ask you something. What is limiting us from just fully expressing down Creationism-level power right now?

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Midnite

Reefs I never thought I would see the day where you would make more sense to me than my own rational conclusions based on my own experiences. hmm...

Hehe. Seeing it that way changes things quite dramatically, doesn't it? And in case you've missed it: the non-dual pavlina-forum council (Reefs/Arcanum) has decided that truth is a verb now! So you can't carry it around anymore or hang it onto your kitchen wall.

But do you not at least accept that individualized consciousness has taken aboard a certain 'identity' to those who also approach it from another form of individualized consciousness? Though you are completely correct in your above statement, the game exists with fully-fledged characters nonetheless.

Yes, that all does exist, but it is called illusion at the same time. It can't stand for itself. It doesn't stand on solid ground. The whole game with its fully-fledgy characters can collapse anytime. And a new game can arise anytime as well.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Midnite

I want to ask you something. What is limiting us from just fully expressing down Creationism-level power right now?

You are. You're creating every single second. You created your perception of creators. You created a place to discuss your creation of creators. You created a realization and created that a "creation" (read: expression) called reefs was the source of it.

The problem is that it is unconscious, so sometimes you are happy with your creations and sometimes you are not. But you blame your creations on other creations ("it's someone else's fault, not mine"), so your creations are alienated from you.

The only thing that needs to be confronted is the mind, because all of these creations are in the mind. None of them can touch ultimate consciousness. The most heinous act doesn't affect being in the least.

But in the mind, there are creators and there are creations. And you are completely 100% responsible for your creations—no one else. If you perceive it, it is in the mind and you have created it.

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by VinceG

If there are billions of Creators, there might yet be another form of consciousness aggregated from them. In the same way that our consciousnesses aggregate from the collective consciousnesses of our cells, physical, mental, and energetic matter.

I think if we can keep abstracting in this fashion, we'll eventually find the current cutting edge of evolution. What life itself is trying to become.

This is a whole new ball game. The Creator-level collective consciousness. From the 'everything is one' methodology, we should be able to access it because in essence we are the Creators.

Originally Posted by Reefs

Yes, that all does exist, but it is called illusion at the same time. It can't stand for itself. It doesn't stand on solid ground. The whole game with its fully-fledgy characters can collapse anytime. And a new game can arise anytime as well.

I will tell you the real reason I am venturing down this path, and it's not so I can go sit in a cave somewhere as an all-enlightened master with a long beard and a wooden pipe I want access to the HaXz0r cheats so I can start drilling the game hard and living every single moment for however long this will last in the utmost state of ecstasy and pleasure.

Though illusionary in nature, it's still a matter of a continued level of reality that we either make the most of while it lasts, or just go with the flow and accept what happens no matter what circumstances we are in.

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

The problem is that it is unconscious, so sometimes you are happy with your creations and sometimes you are not. But you blame your creations on other creations ("it's someone else's fault, not mine"), so your creations are alienated from you.

What it comes down to is control. From a higher perspective, which you are currently thinking within, your perception makes perfect sense. However from the current embodiment of that higher consciousness, into a now form of limited consciousness, this perception lasts as long as it takes to realize this limited form is bound to a path and it is very difficult to alleviate the symptoms of those limitations.

In this lower form I do not have control over you. I do not have control over Reefs. I also do not have control over my own life.

What I am trying to bridge is the distinction between my Creator-self and that which I currently perceive as me. Simply thinking I am a Creator does not really give me creationist powers. For example a gold brick didn't just appear in front of me when I willed it to do so. This is a form of limitation considering my Creator-self's abilities.

This is why I decide to venture as far as I do. The knowledge contained on-Creation may possibly be purposely limited. But in terms of a Collective Creator Consciousness; if you can keep up, you can play.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Midnite

This is a whole new ball game. The Creator-level collective consciousness. From the 'everything is one' methodology, we should be able to access it because in essence we are the Creators.

Remember the last time you tuned into God? Why would you ever need to tune into something greater than that?

The thing about Creation is that it's whole and complete. You don't need anything outside of it. I mean, honestly, how many different worlds do you need to look at, personally? I'm sure God can appreciate the subtleties of his and other creations, but can you? You'd have to be God.

At a certain point, even our imaginations are going to fail us.

[ChristsLight]

Originally Posted by Midnite

What it comes down to is control. From a higher perspective, which you are currently thinking within, your perception makes perfect sense. However from the current embodiment of that higher consciousness, into a now form of limited consciousness, this perception lasts as long as it takes to realize this limited form is bound to a path and it is very difficult to alleviate the symptoms of those limitations.

In this lower form I do not have control over you. I do not have control over Reefs. I also do not have control over my own life.

What I am trying to bridge is the distinction between my Creator-self and that which I currently perceive as me. Simply thinking I am a Creator does not really give me creationist powers. For example a gold brick didn't just appear in front of me when I willed it to do so. This is a form of limitation considering my Creator-self's abilities.

This is why I decide to venture as far as I do. The knowledge contained on-Creation may possibly be purposely limited. But in terms of a Collective Creator Consciousness; if you can keep up, you can play.

These are all limiting beliefs. Consciousness is not limited, anywhere. It is just your perception that it is limited. You may think that this is just abstract, but it really is quite the opposite.

Example: I started cleaning up my limiting beliefs on prosperity. It's still a work in progress, but once I started loosening the hold of those beliefs, prosperity started flowing into my life in unexpected ways. Why? Because it is all in the mind. I am creating either the lack or the abundance of prosperity. That's not up to objective circumstances, because there's no such thing as an objective circumstance in a mind that's just creating appearances within itself. It has total and absolute control over all of its creations, even the appearance of saying that it has no control, as you are saying right now.

You may not be able to manifest a gold brick, but there are those who could. I'm certainly not among those, lol, but there are those who can materialize objects at will. It is because they realize that any object, whether it is currently in your field of "limited" awareness or not, is just as real, or unreal, as any other object, even your own body and your own limited consciousness.

[seeds]

Originally Posted by Reefs

If you could see mind as a process, as a happening, and not as a kind of entity, then it would be more difficult to ascribe it to a certain thinking entity, you wouldn't actually need a thinking entity.

And then you wouldn't come to conclusions like creators creating other creators which will only lead to ultimate seeds-ism.

...So says one "watermelon seed" to another "watermelon seed" as they both tried to ponder the nature of the dense "pulp" they are suspended in, and the mystery of what lies on the other side of that all-encompassing "oval barrier."

The following is an amazingly coincidental rendering of the actual shape of the universe put-forth by NASA:





Reefs, just add life and consciousness to that image, and if you stare deep enough into the picture, you just might be able to see your little "seed pod" suspended somewhere within the holographic-like "mental pulp" of our "Creator's" mind.


seeds

[wstein]

First the term ‘Off-Creation’ is either ambiguous or misleading. Though reality is oneness, it seems to be separated and further separated indefinitely into smaller pieces. Each of these separations contributes to the essence of the piece you are in. Note that the piece you are in is likely further separated into smaller pieces but usually with our limited perception, it’s not obvious unless you specifically go look. As per this reality, objects looked solid to the naked eye but when science looked closer it was made of atoms and still further into the realm of quantum mechanics. The quantum level can be explored directly with advanced OBE techniques. There are effectively an infinite number of these axis of separation. In the same way the quantum world is a separation of physical reality, so is the drama and trauma world of the ego (which has no quantum properties).

When we look in the ‘direction’ of the oneness, we are looking from where we are and ‘peeling’ off or moving past separations to eliminate them. This leads to pieces with fewer and fewer separations (fewer aspects or properties) to simpler and more abstract ‘levels’. From the perspective of a incarnate being and limited by our awareness, some of these separations seem much more significant than others. Traveling towards oneness, the first threshold of importance is that of manifestation or actualization. This separates the conceptual realms of possibilities and consciousness where everything remains theoretical from the actualized realms where things take form and actually play out providing experience. Another important threshold is that of consciousness. Just below the oneness, the first level is the possibility that the oneness is not oneness. Just below that is the actualization that there are separations, this is the foundation of the illusion.

This may all sound like speculation and without documentation. As I have indicated, with advanced OBE techniques, you can go see for yourself. Surprisingly there is at least one written reference to this though it’s not written from this perspective. I only recognized it after experiencing what is way out there. It’s the ‘Tree of Life’ from the Jewish Kabala, the one with the 10 circles with lines making rectangles and triangles. Those circles are from the top increasing separations lower towards our place in reality. Those circles are also actual realms that can be visited. [URL} http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life_%28Kabbalah%29 [/URL] Note that the diagram is highly simplified including only what the mystics considered important separations.

By travelling (OBE, projection) in other ‘directions’ (dimensional travel) one can adjust or eliminate aspects of the realms you are in. Sometimes it gets very curious like where there may be location and conscious aware beings but movement is impossible. That is to say the aspect we call movement is not part of that reality. One can pop in to that realm and use energy vision to see the landscape and observe the beings that live there. But you are stuck in that location forever. The only way to relocate is to pop out and reenter elsewhere.

The over-soul idea is that certain beings can separate parts of themselves and incarnate that bit of themselves into a separation of where they are. The over-souls are beings too and sometimes they have over-souls. Note that not all beings have over-souls, once that possibility of a incarnate being is actualized it can exist on its own without the over-soul. Also over-soul type beings (and other types) can invade a preexisting being (possession). There are also beings that ‘cultivate’ separations in various combinations. The creator of this universe (The Farmer) is such a being. Note that the Framer is not an over-soul type. I have met several people who have seen the Farmer. His place looks like rows and rows of spherical hollow containers each of which contains one or two little flower shaped explosions (which are actually universes). Note that our container contains 2 universes that intersect. The Farmer does experience his creations by breaking a bit of himself off and putting it in the container. The part he occupies is random and does not affect the outcome of the universe. He also invites over-soul types to come play in his garden (and affect the course of development to some extent).

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by Reefs

and then the chatter resumes and a discussion about the illusory nature of time begins as if nothing had happened.

Originally Posted by VinceG

I think to answer that question, we'd need to understand the true nature of time. Not just in the silly metaphorical musing sort of way we understand it now, but in a more rigorous fashion. Probably something the human mind can't handle at present.

Hehehe

[wstein]

Originally Posted by ChristsLight

Consciousness is not limited, anywhere

Limited, no. However there are ‘places’ very close to oneness where not only is there no consciousness, there can’t be. Consciousness is based in something to contain and something to be contained. When in ‘places’ only slightly separated from pure oneness, this is several aspects more divided than the condition of those places.