Buddhism and mathematics?

[gene2009]

Buddhism says when you die you'll come back. This process will repeat again, again and again until you achieve enlightenment/nirvana.
How about increase in population in our planet? Logically, the population wouldn't increase if the person re-born to the new person. Isn't it?
Sorry if my question isn’t smart. I'm newbie in Buddhism. Hopeful somebody will explain me this stuff.
Thanks.

[Reefs]

I think that is taken too literally. Buddhism says when you fall asleep you'll come back. This process will repeat again, again and again until you achieve enlightenment/nirvana.

[gene2009]

I'm sorry for my bad English. Probably, i missed something in your answer Reefs. I'm meaning another.
Say, there is a certain number of people living on the planet. And so, that number cannot increase if people re-born in people. If it's one hundred it'll be still one hundred within 1000000... years. One hundred people can't re-born in any other number of people than 100.
How does Buddhism explain the increase in population in our planet or it says nothing of it?

[seeds]

Originally Posted by gene2009

Buddhism says when you die you'll come back. This process will repeat again, again and again until you achieve enlightenment/nirvana.
How about increase in population in our planet? Logically, the population wouldn't increase if the person re-born to the new person. Isn't it?
Sorry if my question isn’t smart. I'm newbie in Buddhism. Hopeful somebody will explain me this stuff.
Thanks.

Hello gene2009,

On the contrary, your question is extremely "smart."

However, it represents a realm of inquiry that the believers of reincarnation either try to avoid, or just haven't taken the time to factor in to the equation.

Its parallel in Christianity, for example, is how the staunch Biblical "literalists" can ignore (or deny) the overwhelming geological and fossil evidence of an extremely old earth in favor of it coming into being over a few days stretch, a few thousand years ago.

Or in Astrophysics, as another example.

As long as the theorists cannot come up with a "plausible" answer as to where that "tiny kernel of compressed matter" came from (in the Big Bang Theory); a tiny "point particle" from which all reality sprang-forth, then they are free to ignore it and fabricate "stories" of a random and "accidental" creation.

As long as humans can keep the "blinders" on and avoid asking the more penetrating questions that could reveal "cracks" in their belief systems, then they can continue to hold on to their beliefs even though they could be nonsense.

The point is that reincarnation could be "nonsense," and questions like yours must be explored from every angle, and to the furthest extent.

What I would recommend is that you don't take anything stated in Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or materialism, etc., too seriously, as if irrefutable "facts" were being set-forth.

To me, they each hold their own unique "pieces" of the puzzle that must be assembled and viewed as a whole.


seeds

[wstein]

The human population IS increasing. Also many beings are not incarnate as humans but rather other animal forms.

Further the biosphere is likely going to be around for a few MORE billion years. Everyone does not return immediately. So assuming there is a ‘waiting list’ there will be up to 100,000,000 more lifetimes available at current population levels. If you do the math that leaves ~ 1 quintillion slots. I’m sure that’s plenty.

Not part of Buddhism per se but there is no reason one has to reincarnate on earth. Assuming humans continue for many centuries to come, they are likely to colonize space (and other worlds).

[Mister Michael]

However, it represents a realm of inquiry that the believers of reincarnation either try to avoid, or just haven't taken the time to factor in to the equation.

No it doesn't. Buddhists believe in a reality with many different worlds. If the population goes up it just means more people are being born in this one. Even if reincarnation was contained to this world, it would just mean that more animals were being reincarnated as humans or something.

[taylor]

More bodies on earth only means more souls can incarnate at the same time on the same planet in the same universe.

The astral is presumably much bigger than the known universe and has a much larger population than earth.

[Fred Tracy]

Originally Posted by taylor

More bodies on earth only means more souls can incarnate at the same time on the same planet in the same universe.

The astral is presumably much bigger than the known universe and has a much larger population than earth.

This is a pretty darn good answer, if I do say so myself.

[Cantando]

Buddhist mathematics:

1 + 2 = 1

1 = 0

0 = 2

[seeds]

Originally Posted by wstein

The human population IS increasing. Also many beings are not incarnate as humans but rather other animal forms.

Further the biosphere is likely going to be around for a few MORE billion years. Everyone does not return immediately. So assuming there is a ‘waiting list’ there will be up to 100,000,000 more lifetimes available at current population levels. If you do the math that leaves ~ 1 quintillion slots. I’m sure that’s plenty.

Not part of Buddhism per se but there is no reason one has to reincarnate on earth. Assuming humans continue for many centuries to come, they are likely to colonize space (and other worlds).

To what end?

After all is said and done; after the completion of all the reincarnational "hoops" we apparently need to jump through, "eternity" will still stretch-out before us in a vision of endlessness that defies comprehension.

Therefore, in your best guess, what is our ultimate "form" and "goal" from that point onward?

Again, we are talking eternity here.


seeds

[chadcharlie]

Originally Posted by Fred Tracy

This is a pretty darn good answer, if I do say so myself.

I agree with the above. I'm not too heavy into apologetics, but the answer Fred quotes could stand, and another way of looking at it is the dividing divine. If you tie that into the "bang bang" concept and the entire universe is expanding rapidly, then we (the universe) fragment into more pieces. It's also been assumed that one soul is occupying many bodies in many places.

None of this is scientific, nor to I adhere to it with dedication, it's just musings about how we might experience ourselves.

Not a dumb question though. It deserves asking.

Take care,
Chad.

[seeds]

Originally Posted by Mister Michael

No it doesn't. Buddhists believe in a reality with many different worlds. If the population goes up it just means more people are being born in this one. Even if reincarnation was contained to this world, it would just mean that more animals were being reincarnated as humans or something.

In your statement above, you have beautifully illustrated one of the points I made in my post.


Buddhists "believe" what they believe.

Christians "believe" what they believe.

Hindus "believe" what they believe.

Muslims "believe" what they believe.

Materialists "believe" what they believe.


Out of just those five belief systems, which one holds the absolute truth?


seeds

[Pete Messenger]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Buddhist mathematics:

1 + 2 = 1

1 = 0

0 = 2

Haha beautiful!! I love it

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by gene2009

Buddhism says when you die you'll come back. This process will repeat again, again and again until you achieve enlightenment/nirvana.
How about increase in population in our planet? Logically, the population wouldn't increase if the person re-born to the new person. Isn't it?
Sorry if my question isn’t smart. I'm newbie in Buddhism. Hopeful somebody will explain me this stuff.
Thanks.

I look at it this way. Buddhsim is a religion. Buddhsim is not Buddha. A religion is supported by many written texts, rituals, beliefs and others, created by human. Religious texts reflect people's understanding, experience of God, Buddha, intellectual ideas, or others. They can be very valuable and may contain a lot of truth, but I don't take them as the absolute truth.

I pay my highest respect to Buddha. I found some of the Buddhism texts highly enlightening. But for the things I don't understand or agree with, I am open minded. Perhaps one day I will understand it, or perhaps what I read is merely someone's belief written down thoudands of years ago. The important thing is, I learn a great deal from Buddhism.

Best regards,

[gene2009]

Originally Posted by seeds

Hello gene2009,

On the contrary, your question is extremely "smart."

However, it represents a realm of inquiry that the believers of reincarnation either try to avoid, or just haven't taken the time to factor in to the equation.

Its parallel in Christianity, for example, is how the staunch Biblical "literalists" can ignore (or deny) the overwhelming geological and fossil evidence of an extremely old earth in favor of it coming into being over a few days stretch, a few thousand years ago.

Or in Astrophysics, as another example.

As long as the theorists cannot come up with a "plausible" answer as to where that "tiny kernel of compressed matter" came from (in the Big Bang Theory); a tiny "point particle" from which all reality sprang-forth, then they are free to ignore it and fabricate "stories" of a random and "accidental" creation.

As long as humans can keep the "blinders" on and avoid asking the more penetrating questions that could reveal "cracks" in their belief systems, then they can continue to hold on to their beliefs even though they could be nonsense.

The point is that reincarnation could be "nonsense," and questions like yours must be explored from every angle, and to the furthest extent.

What I would recommend is that you don't take anything stated in Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or materialism, etc., too seriously, as if irrefutable "facts" were being set-forth.

To me, they each hold their own unique "pieces" of the puzzle that must be assembled and viewed as a whole.


seeds

Seeds, I like your view on it.
I had some questions to Christians that they couldn't answer on. One of my questions was about fossils because i'm collect fossils.
I don't try to refute any religious statement, no. I just try to get/find answers for myself. I'm not an atheist. However, i cannot call myself a believer too. I'm unaware and am a seeker.
I cannot follow blindfold to any of religions. The cold logic doesn't allow me to do it.

[gene2009]

Originally Posted by wstein

The human population IS increasing. Also many beings are not incarnate as humans but rather other animal forms.

Further the biosphere is likely going to be around for a few MORE billion years. Everyone does not return immediately. So assuming there is a ‘waiting list’ there will be up to 100,000,000 more lifetimes available at current population levels. If you do the math that leaves ~ 1 quintillion slots. I’m sure that’s plenty.

Not part of Buddhism per se but there is no reason one has to reincarnate on earth. Assuming humans continue for many centuries to come, they are likely to colonize space (and other worlds).

Wstein, I thought that's Hinduism, no Buddhism.

Ok, the biosphere's traffic grows up from a century to a century.

It sounds like one of those worlds is destroyed and it's while the human grows so fast.

[gene2009]

Originally Posted by Mister Michael

No it doesn't. Buddhists believe in a reality with many different worlds. If the population goes up it just means more people are being born in this one. Even if reincarnation was contained to this world, it would just mean that more animals were being reincarnated as humans or something.

Mister Michael, again i think thought this is Hinduism where a man can re-born in an animal and an animal may become a man.

[gene2009]

Originally Posted by taylor

More bodies on earth only means more souls can incarnate at the same time on the same planet in the same universe.

The astral is presumably much bigger than the known universe and has a much larger population than earth.

Taylor, Ok, thanks.

[gene2009]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Buddhist mathematics:

1 + 2 = 1

1 = 0

0 = 2

Cantando, Buddhism isn't built on logic, but many things are logical there.

[gene2009]

Originally Posted by Thunder

I look at it this way. Buddhsim is a religion. Buddhsim is not Buddha. A religion is supported by many written texts, rituals, beliefs and others, created by human. Religious texts reflect people's understanding, experience of God, Buddha, intellectual ideas, or others. They can be very valuable and may contain a lot of truth, but I don't take them as the absolute truth.

I pay my highest respect to Buddha. I found some of the Buddhism texts highly enlightening. But for the things I don't understand or agree with, I am open minded. Perhaps one day I will understand it, or perhaps what I read is merely someone's belief written down thoudands of years ago. The important thing is, I learn a great deal from Buddhism.

Best regards,

Thunder, thank you for your post. Yes, i like many things on Buddhism. However, i have many questions on it as well.

[taylor]

Originally Posted by gene2009

Mister Michael, again i think thought this is Hinduism where a man can re-born in an animal and an animal may become a man.

It's in Buddhism as well.

(Although I suppose it's possible it was smuggled in through the influence of Hindusim.)

[TheJourney]

There's much, much more to reality than earth

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by gene2009

I'm sorry for my bad English. Probably, i missed something in your answer Reefs. I'm meaning another.
Say, there is a certain number of people living on the planet. And so, that number cannot increase if people re-born in people. If it's one hundred it'll be still one hundred within 1000000... years. One hundred people can't re-born in any other number of people than 100.
How does Buddhism explain the increase in population in our planet or it says nothing of it?

No, Buddhism says nothing about overpopulation and also not about global warming or climate change. Hafta ask the Lalai Lama about that.

But in mainstream Buddhism there are different worlds, different planes of existence are acknowledged. The highest planes are just points of consciousness with no other identity than say the sense of "I am". And those never incarnate. The lower you go the more complex becomes the identity until you reach the astral planes where you have light bodies and in the physical plane and below physical bodies. There's an infinite number of points of consciousness and also an infinite number of worlds.

(OMG, Reefs is talking woo woo )

[wstein]

NOTE: Slightly outside the bounds of formal Buddhism. The Buddha did not say that much about the mystical aspects of reality other than not to waste focus on it now.

Originally Posted by seeds

To what end?

According to Buddhists you reach nirvana/buddhahood. In metaphysical terms this is more or less returning to oneness.

Originally Posted by seeds

After all is said and done; after the completion of all the reincarnational "hoops" we apparently need to jump through, "eternity" will still stretch-out before us in a vision of endlessness that defies comprehension.

After completion, there is no individual us anymore, only oneness. Since there is no us anymore, there is not us to see anything and the eternity of the ‘universe’ is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by seeds

Therefore, in your best guess, what is our ultimate "form" and "goal" from that point onward?

There is no form at the end. The All is formless. The ‘goal’ having been reached merges with us in returning to oneness.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by gene2009

Wstein, I thought that's Hinduism, no Buddhism.

Buddhism take on reincarnation is based on the Hindu model.

Originally Posted by gene2009

Ok, the biosphere's traffic grows up from a century to a century.

The biosphere remains more or less the same size on Earth. The increasing human presence is pushing out other species (making many go extinct). According to science, various events have temporarily reduced the biosphere. However these are few in number with long periods of steady state in-between. This is a byproduct of a finite mostly closed system known as the planet Earth which has not significantly changed size or shape in billions of years.

Originally Posted by gene2009

It sounds like one of those worlds is destroyed and it's while the human grows so fast.

So true. So far humans have only laid waste to this world. They may yet damage or destroy many others before they are through.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by wstein

So true. So far humans have only laid waste to this world. They may yet damage or destroy many others before they are through.

They??

[seeds]

Originally Posted by wstein

NOTE: Slightly outside the bounds of formal Buddhism. The Buddha did not say that much about the mystical aspects of reality other than not to waste focus on it now.

According to Buddhists you reach nirvana/buddhahood. In metaphysical terms this is more or less returning to oneness.

After completion, there is no individual us anymore, only oneness. Since there is no us anymore, there is not us to see anything and the eternity of the ‘universe’ is irrelevant.

There is no form at the end. The All is formless. The ‘goal’ having been reached merges with us in returning to oneness.

I think that the validity of everything you stated above can best be evaluated in the context of its most significant point:

"...According to Buddhists..."


seeds

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by gene2009

Wstein, I thought that's Hinduism, no Buddhism.

Buddha (Prince Siddharta or Sakyamuni) was a Hindu who lived in India. His personal spiritual journey then gave rise to Buddhism.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by gene2009

Cantando, Buddhism isn't built on logic, but many things are logical there.

I wasn't really being tongue-in-cheek. The Zen maths is correct.

0 = 1 = 2 = 0

There is no differentiation between the void, oneness or duality.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by Cantando

I wasn't really being tongue-in-cheek. The Zen maths is correct.

0 = 1 = 2 = 0

There is no differentiation between the void, oneness or duality.

Hmmm. Seems that Pythagoras was wrong.